Barbs V Ego

There's a lot of **** clerics out there. It makes sense to me that the tank wants to clarify with the cleric that they know their job is to heal, not deal damage.

A friend of mine who plays a barb has certainly come across his share of clerics who don't heal him, and instead reckon they should be the main dd for the group and the barb should just use a heiro or something. After a few of those, you can understand how the tank wants to make sure the cleric knows to keep them alive.

I hear you, like 75% of barbs have this huge ego for some reason, I also ended quitting a guild because I didnt get along with the only high barb, and thus couldnt complete any boss quests

Bms are very underrated btw, yes you need to make sure they are well equipped and higher than the rest of the party but once they do oh boy...

I have a pure vit bm, call it tanker build or whatever you want lol, calamity axes + bramble = good luck stealing agro archers, and she has so much hp she can solo most stuff just with charm anyway (she can solo jewel... yeah, no clerics)

Also bm is much better in keeping party safe in hh mobs than barb for one simple reason, they aoe the **** out of everything (plus aoe stun).. if they dont, theyre wussies, a bms job is to aoe stuff, nuff said LOL everytime I go into hh (say 2-x) I lure all the mobs at the start and aoe them like I was grinding, cleric can heal safely because Im attacking all of them, and the huge physical defense makes it so the bm herself isnt endangered (15K~ at 70+)

Now of course there are things a bm cant tank until really high lvl.. for example bosses with spike damage, such as 1-3 drummer and soulbanisher.. they usually hit barbs for 8K or so, so a bm would be toast with a bad spike (that is, if you dont have a barb in party for hp buff)

Well, yeah, that's one thing, but they people still can be overly egomeniacal about things. Like ''I'm the tank, heal me or we all die'' fair enough statement. ''We're all alive because of me'' true enough statement. ''We're all alive because I'm so ******n awesome'' is gettin' on the touchy side. ''Kneel down and kiss my hps'' is the superego comin' up...

et cetera...

It's not the class that are full of themselves it's the people who plays them.

I have had bad experiences with Venomancers killstealing but it's not the Venomancers in themselves that are bad just the little boys that plays them.

''So The cerlic is more important than the barb maybe .''

It's symbiotic. Both reliant on each other. If either one of them is alone, they're worth half as much. If both are there, their value tenfolds.
Neither is more important, because they both need each other.

Same applies to Veno, but in a more personal level. The Veno needs the pet, the pet needs the Veno...

It isn't about who's most important to a squad. The defenition of a squad is that it counts more than 1 person, and in the game a squad needs basicly 3 things:
- a tank; a barb usually is the best choise, since it's created for this purpose. This doesn't mean a BM, or a (heavy) veno can't play this role.
- a healer; a cleric ist the best choise, since it's created for this purpose. Then again, mage could do this, or maybe life powders.
- Damage; just a barb and a cleric won't kill the boss. Archers, mages and BM need to kill the boss as soon as possible, so the barb won't run out of hp, and so the cleric won't run out of mp.

In case of unpredicted situations, it's up to the cleric to decide who to heal, it's up to the barb to try to pull as much mobs as possible, and it's up the damage dealers to kill effectively. The barb should get the main attention of the cleric, but not the only one to get healed in every situation.

If you take one out, the squad will fail, unless you have some high lvl players around that are helping. I'm a barb at lvl 37, but I won't insist on tanking when there is a lvl 60 BM in the squad!

Honestly ima tank and i dont think its necciary to make ppl pay i met these to ppl named tygrah and tuscan_tusk they are both lv 69 and are gr8 they helped me so much and would keep the aggro when i was lv 4 and would help me wid my quest uts relle good to tank in numnbers and have your wizzard or cleric behind you to hit whiles you take the bbig hits cuz thats what were made for

As already stated, the relationship is interdependent. Healers cannot function without a tank; a tank cannot function without a healer; neither can get far without damage-dealers. The role of the healer is to keep the team alive, but their role is no more important than the other three.

MMM maybe came out wrong but what the people said on page 2:
That they are equal was actually my point.

The one can't do without the others.

The only one I really don't know where to place is the veno.
Does he also belong with the damage dealer? I mean in normal situations

It's common in every game ever where there's something LIKE a healer and something LIKE a tank: the tank always wants to be healed. Ad infintinium. So let me just throw out a good way to look at the whole tank/healer runaround...

Point one: think of what it's like to be the healer. Sitting in the back spamming heal is not fun... unless you're that rare Cleric who dedicates their free time to just helping people. Y'know, the kind that flies around and gives buffs to random newbies and all that... if that's the case, my hat's off to you. But for the rest of you, don't expect infinite selfless treatment, at least not if you don't plan to pay them a significant amount for it.

Now, if I were a cleric (and I might make one at some point) and I wanted to go into some high-level fb where our success (or possibly some awesome loot) were dependent on me being a healer and not an attacker, well okay. I'd just blame it on bad game design and then stick to my boring duties, at least until the dungeon was over. But if someone yelled at me for contributing a Plume Shot every once in awhile, they'd suddenly find themselves with one less cleric.

Point two: it doesn't hurt to figure out how to stay alive for yourself. Spend half an hour gathering herbs and make yourself some big HP-restoring potions or whatever. Again, if it's a high level dungeon, fine. But as a general rule, it's nice to have a backup plan (this is a rule you learn as an archer, 'cause you're kinda screwed if some of your skills miss).

Point three: a little courtesy goes a long way. By that I mean, "buffs would be appreciated" is far better than "buffs plz." It's the internet, and with only text there's a fine line between sounding nice and sounding like an ****. So clarify yourself and maybe tensions won't rise so much. Being able to spell / speak decently doesn't hurt either.



On a side note, I hired a couple BMs for my lv49 cultivation bosses... the team was me, one cleric, one veno and the two of them. The third boss got a little confusing and most of us ended up dead the first time around... and when we all got up again, oh man. It wasn't just heals those tanks were complaining about. They insisted they had to duel each other to get their sparks back up (despite the fact that I said I had to leave in 5 and had to kill the boss), and were demanding sparks from the veno as well. That wasn't some high level dungeon, it was just a regular boss. Ugggh.
[/rant]

I thought us clerics were gods gift to parties no barbs b:chuckle

Haven't really come across any barbs shouting orders. Fastest way not to get healed is to yell at me for heals. I don't yell at barbs to "TANK TANK TANK" so don't yell at me for heals. My biggest pet peev in games is people shouting at healers to heal.

We know to heal. If you're not getting healed it's because

A)you're not a priority target
B)You ran out of range, we're not chasing after you and leaving everyone else
C)We D/C'd
D)You've been shouting "HEAL" so long we ignore you now.

All the barbs i've met have been helpfull, fun and humble. It's the BM's who tend to yell a lot if you ask me b:cry

haku wrote: »

Not sure about the role of the Heavy-veno, cuz there's not very many of them around.

I'm lvling a heavy veno (only at lvl20), so I'll tell you when I find out. b:victory As for now, I would say, the heavy veno with its pet is a sort of tanking combo. The veno herself has skills that are a sort of opposite of the cleric skills; decrease channeling speed, stop hp/mp regeneration, purge all positif buffs, decrease accuracy, increase damage taken. That kind of skills, they're crippling the mobs.

I also wanted to say to Miugre: I totally agree with you, on all three points.
- Its the clerics job to decide who need to be healed. When tanking, I'm focussed on the mobs, trying to keep aggro and cancel their special attacks, etc. I do not have the time to leave messages like "heal". As a barb you need to trust the cleric behind you.
- As a barb, I alway have life powders and pots. If I run short on hp, I can alway use that. If that happens, I don't start flaming the cleric. I just suppose, that someone else needed more healing than me. As I said, It's the cleric who decides who needs the healing most.
- Trying to be nice is important. Last time I was questing, a cleric suddenly started to buff me. The least I could do was wisper a little "thanks". When I did that, she answered "I'm just doing my job". I guess she wasn't used to be thanked. Even if it's the clerics job, it doesn't mean you don't have to say "thanks". When I party, before leaving I always say "thanks" and cast beast king's inspiration. Its the least I can do.

Well said Malcuid Keep up the spirit and the good work, Cheers!

Malcuid - Sanctuary wrote: »

MMM maybe came out wrong but what the people said on page 2:
That they are equal was actually my point.

The one can't do without the others.

The only one I really don't know where to place is the veno.
Does he also belong with the damage dealer? I mean in normal situations

- Venos are good PvE grinders.

- Venos are good debuffers.
- Venos are kiting specialists.
- Venos can transfer Chi.

- Venos are average damage dealers, their fire rate is too slow to be efficient at this. Plus they're as frail as a mage. Glass Cannons.

- Heavy Venos are not half as good as a a Barb.

- Venos Pets seldom have AoE skill and as such are awful tanks if the Veno cannot kite the mobs one by one.

That's their role. Helping guildies drop stuff, allowing the tank to keep aggro often, maximize the damage income of the bosses, and getting rid of the dangerous guards one by one before the final showdown. A useful addition to any party.

wow has the person that started this thread even tried to tank before?!

I myself play a pure tank on a PvP server. But im not a selfless prick like the author of this thread would have you beleive. i dont tell healers how to heal, they already know how to do that (i would hope). In fact i only offer my suggestions when asked for, or i know the person has never fought the mob/boss we are about to go up against.

When im tanking (if the healer cant keep up with the dmg im receiving (very rare that happens)) i tell everyone to fly/run and then when they are all outta harms way i try to get out myself... i dont care if i die. I'd rather not see my party wiped.

i dont sit there and whine about buffs. i ask everyone to gather around me nicely buff them, and then kindly ask for their buffs in return. if it happens it happens.

NOT EVERY BARB TANK OUT THERE IS A GIANT DOUCHER. So dont label all of us, especially if you have no clue.