Rip-off catshop prices

2

Comments

  • papewaio
    papewaio Posts: 5
    edited January 2009
    I do have my facts straight. Without changing prices, you can never account for inflation or deflation, and your economy will collapse. State-mandated prices can never keep up with market-driven forces.

    Why do you want to remove supply and demand from the game? Do you want to make sure there are equal numbers of venos and clerics in the game so they aren't in higher demand, or don't demand payment for their services?

    Frankly, since EVERY mmo has NEVER set player-set prices, I think your logic is flawed. Since no market economy has survived with state-sponsored commercial prices (and we have many examples that have failed!) any mmo you made would fail within the year.

    This isn't to flame or be insulting, this is just logic fact, backed by 10,000 years of human commerce. I'd be happy to provide scientific references and mathematical models if you'd like to learn why this is the case. While I'm not an expert, my education has provided me a lot of opportunity to study these phenomenon.
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    Humans are obsessed with greed. Remove the ability to change things just so they can get rich based on their greed, and watch a good stable econ.
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • swgs
    swgs Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Humans are obsessed with greed. Remove the ability to change things just so they can get rich based on their greed, and watch a good stable econ.

    Then there will be no economy. Reality is reality, have to accept it.
  • LostKiller - Heavens Tear
    LostKiller - Heavens Tear Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    Ok the dude is selling for 9.25k or w/e for each dull claw!! So What if He Is Selling For 9.25k!!!!! There Is No Game Rule That Tells To Keep The Prices At a Level... Some people are noobs!!!! thats right!!! But What If That Guy Is Desperate! Imagine This senery:- A Character Wants Only 1 Dull Claw And He Is Lazy To Walk/Fly/Ride To arch and He Is In Silver Pool!! Do U Think That Person Would Go To ARch ! Then Buy!! And then come back to silverpool!!! <--- that will cost more than what u were gona buy one For!!1
    3k to go to Arch!!! 4k!! For the dull!!! Which is a Regular Price !!! And Then Teleport To Where Ever !!! which will be from 1k to 3k to 5k and then back to Silver Pool !! which is 3k i think
    So calculate 3k+ 4k+ 3k + 3k = 13k!!!
    or
    3k+ 4k + 1k + 3k = 11k!!
    So better of paying 9.25k

    Oh talk of overprice!! I seel coal dust for freaking 600-1000coins!!! and then guy next to me sells for 2k!!!!1 After an hour i come back!! i see my sell log !! and nthing sold!! adn the guy next to me !! sold 90 out of is 100!!! and talk of overpriced!!! dull claw is a DQ item!!! and dull claws can only be obtained iif ur 30-40!!1 cause after taht goign and killing lvl 35!! monsters and trying to get dull claw is a pain in the a** so i dont think that is wrong with selling the dull for 9.25k and not like he's not being able to sell it!


    How about this!!1 i have 159 coal dust trying to sell at 1k!!1 from 2 days!! sold non yet!!! and guyz who price over me !! sell everything!!!!and my god gravel is selling for 4k wtf!! and then i see gravel at 1.2k!!! so i keep 2k as a price and no sale, rough lumebr 2k no sale!! so wtf, So if his luck is supporting him!!! let him make his money!! and he has the time and patience too!! and He is right y should he sell for low! and go to work and have to just keep his computer on for no reason!! instead having the price higher !! will make it wortha while !! make more money and the time is not wasted!! So

    Brother Who is selling for 9.25k!! i respect u!! and keep ur SWAG on !!! and dont wory abut people who dont wanna buy!!
  • papewaio
    papewaio Posts: 5
    edited January 2009
    Humans are obsessed with greed, true. But removing the ability to change prices results in a massive depression if the money supply changes. For example, in the great Depression (in US anyway, Germany was different) the money supply constricted, which meant everyone had less money. So that means that a $1 apple was worth more, but if the price didn't change, you'd lead to a shortage.

    Basically, if you set the prices, some items will stay in stock for years (if not eternally) while other items will be perpetually out of stock. Imagine if you proclaimed dull claws to be 1.5k. You'd never find any, and the first thing that would happen is a black market would develop (ie. Soviet Russia) The reason this develops is because people are willing to pay more than 1.5k for dull claws. Why would you restrict your mmo's freedom by dictating they don't have the option to pay what they want for goods and services? People usually prefer freedom over a lack of choice. This doesn't mean there shouldn't be any government intervention, but it should be in small, controlled doses, not country-wide mandates.

    Ask yourself: Why has no mmo had GM-controlled player prices?
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    I don't know how many times I've checked the prices of the mats in the area, then sold the exact same mats right next to those people for 500 coins less. In the morning, I was sold out and their shops hadn't yet sold a thing.
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • DeliaLotus - Lost City
    DeliaLotus - Lost City Posts: 100 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    I think that cat shop prices are a problem, but it really isn't the sellers' fault. Even if it were, we can't change that.

    As to ways to fix the problem, setting prices wouldn't work - we'd could easily end up with far more people looking to buy dull claws than looking to sell them.

    However, a way to search cat shops for an item would introduce an element of competition - cat shops couldn't take away more than others were selling it for, or at least not much more (based on location). This is the way the free market works today - sellers and buyers are able, fairly easily, to see what prices things are going for at other stores (especially with online shopping).

    Of course, this is unlikely to be implemented :). So until then, we must shop around...
  • swgs
    swgs Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    DeliaLotus - Lost City wrote: »
    I think that cat shop prices are a problem, but it really isn't the sellers' fault. Even if it were, we can't change that.

    As to ways to fix the problem, setting prices wouldn't work - we'd could easily end up with far more people looking to buy dull claws than looking to sell them.

    However, a way to search cat shops for an item would introduce an element of competition - cat shops couldn't take away more than others were selling it for, or at least not much more (based on location). This is the way the free market works today - sellers and buyers are able, fairly easily, to see what prices things are going for at other stores (especially with online shopping).

    Of course, this is unlikely to be implemented :). So until then, we must shop around...

    The solution is simple, disable cat shop to make auction the only way to sell a item beside WC. Yes, players will spam chat channal, but they do it any way.
  • DeliaLotus - Lost City
    DeliaLotus - Lost City Posts: 100 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    swgs wrote: »
    The solution is simple, disable cat shop to make auction the only way to sell a item beside WC. Yes, players will spam chat channal, but they do it any way.

    That would be great. Of course, the 500 coins fee every time would have to change.
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    papewaio wrote: »
    Why do you want to remove supply and demand from the game?

    Actually, the cat shops aren't a real free market. The time it takes to check all their prices means for most people, unless they already know the market price, they're going to buy after only checking a few shops. If you wanted a real free market, each cat shop item would have a little graph next to it showing the asking price vs. the average of the paid price for the same item across all cat shops in the last ~100 sales.
  • XNecromancer - Sanctuary
    XNecromancer - Sanctuary Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    ok i have to put in my 2 cents here, not i just moved games and came bout a month before the x-mas event

    i made enought between 2 char for 2 mounts, 3 sets of garments 2 gold hp charms and some more stuff just from xmas event.

    right now i have about 2-3kk in bank"not a lot i know" but i have 200+ mirage stones and 200+ dice tickets that im selling at cat shop for 19-20k each dice at 10k each those are my bank funds, everything else as far as star/blue gears i sell in auction or mat low enough that someone that doesnt have much can afford easy 2k-5k and that pays for my pet food and little things.

    Anyway back to the point if u can sell for more good for u but i rather sell fast for smaller profit.
  • bunnyhunny
    bunnyhunny Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    i saw someone selling a pinnear foxwing (or whatever) Veno egg (not baby) for 150k today.. that really made my day.
  • Divinzor - Sanctuary
    Divinzor - Sanctuary Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »
    "What a rip-off!"
    "9.75k? na thanks..."
    "you lost your mind?"
    "NNNOOOOOOOOOB!"
    "9.7k for dull claws?! omg!"
    "lol stupid noob"
    "lowr yur prices"
    "OVERCHARGING (censored)!"

    My girlfriend and I have been playing PW together for a little less than two months now, and together we've accumulated about 6,000,000 in coins by selling stuff in cat-shops.

    It seems like each day, we Alt-Tab back to the game to find the same two things:

    1) A bunch of messages telling us how stupid we are for having our prices so high that nobody will ever buy our stuff
    2) A bunch of notes telling us we've sold ~50k-300k worth of stuff that day

    I admit, we're both level 33 "noobs" to the game, and frankly I don't know if what we're doing is the most efficient way to make money or not. But we're pretty laid-back about actually leveling up / completing quests / etc..., and hey, we're having fun.

    We've been gradually raising our prices and trying to balance things out so that our stock sells at roughly the same rate we can replenish it, but it seems like no matter how "ridiculous" we set our prices, people keep buying.

    So what, if anything, is a "rip-off" price? I get accused of it all the time, but it's somewhat hard to believe when I keep selling out.

    I am playing for 3 something months now.
    And I as a solo person made spent until now around 45-50 million.
    Never spent real money of theh game either.
  • XNecromancer - Sanctuary
    XNecromancer - Sanctuary Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    lol
    i was looking for shoudo cub and saw that people were charging 1.5kk+ for them and almost choked.

    on a friendly not i went and gave away due to being easy to catch and to help other new players i dropped or gave 60 christal magmites the other dayb:victory

    one more kink banged out of my halo
  • AndromedaB - Sanctuary
    AndromedaB - Sanctuary Posts: 1,376 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    yeah i sell all my stuff for around the price i got them to friends and im a bargian finder lol. i think the cat shop search option is a good idea but i think the auction thing should be more advanced with store estimated values, average price the items were sold at during the last 24 hours and number of sales etc. it would really help if, when u click on a botique item it didnt say 10mil -_- scares me each time...




    (i bought a full wraith robe set for 420k it had 4 sockets each piece with 4 sockets filled with the max level allowed for it with hp gems and all with bonus phys resist and 3 stars refined to level 2, a 3 star military sword refined to level 5 with 2 sockets with 2 average shards and -3 casting and bonus phys resist and "a chance to recover half of mp or hp,"a polaris for 212k + some 30 or so mid mats, a nakir for 1.1 mil, a pheonix (veno battle pet) for 12k and a buncha other stuff...)
  • Nayiro - Sanctuary
    Nayiro - Sanctuary Posts: 1,275 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    AndromedaB - Sanctuary wrote: »
    yeah i sell all my stuff for around the price i got them to friends and im a bargian finder lol. i think the cat shop search option is a good idea but i think the auction thing should be more advanced with store estimated values, average price the items were sold at during the last 24 hours and number of sales etc. it would really help if, when u click on a botique item it didnt say 10mil -_- scares me each time...




    (i bought a full wraith robe set for 420k it had 4 sockets each piece with 4 sockets filled with the max level allowed for it with hp gems and all with bonus phys resist and 3 stars refined to level 2, a 3 star military sword refined to level 5 with 2 sockets with 2 average shards and -3 casting and bonus phys resist and "a chance to recover half of mp or hp,"a polaris for 212k + some 30 or so mid mats, a nakir for 1.1 mil, a pheonix (veno battle pet) for 12k and a buncha other stuff...)
    That's a lie.
    Back.
  • AndromedaB - Sanctuary
    AndromedaB - Sanctuary Posts: 1,376 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    no its not... i often give away stuff just ask someone who knows me for like 3+ months... i only change armor once every 10 levels and buy 2 wepes
  • crazyxkeunz
    crazyxkeunz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    AndromedaB - Sanctuary wrote: »
    no its not... i often give away stuff just ask someone who knows me for like 3+ months... i only change armor once every 10 levels and buy 2 wepes

    I am pretty sure you can only change armor once every 10 levels. And usually people keep weps for around 10 levels before switching.

    EDIT: o I'm not totally sure about this but I'm pretty sure there is no effect ingame that gives you half mp or hp back.
  • bzbee
    bzbee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    AndromedaB - Sanctuary wrote: »
    a pheonix (veno battle pet) for 12k

    LOL is that possibly a typo?
    Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    In this case its greed. I have seen another mmo have its econ crash because people that did this. They kept buying up anything reasonably priced and selling it for more. They made prices go so high on the server that 1/2 the population quit the game due to it being impossible to ever afford anything, plus the entire econ crashed because of this. The game is ruined. You want to ruin this one as well?

    Short version: If you see a low priced item a player is selling, you leave it for a player who is actually going to use that item.

    How would that ruin the economy? The items drop from mobs all the time. If someone can't afford the price for it, they can simply farm it. I farm most of my stuff and only buy if its a good deal which isn't often....if someone is too poor to afford the item, then they should go farm it. If they want to be lazy, then they can jolly well pay for it. Buy/Sell works both ways. Blaming the seller doesn't stop the buyer from offering to buy the item for a high price from someone else. Blame the ones who buy at the higher price. They are after all the ones who are really setting the price and not the seller. Demand and Supply always dictates an economy, whether you like it or not.
    Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    If I ran this game and saw anyone doing this, I'd take every item they had and all their money, plus reduce their character to level 1 and not let them redo any quests. They'd also have no rep. You want to ruin the econ with your greed? I ruin your character.b:chuckle

    Scary........no wonder you aren't running this game. :D
    Phoenix plume count: 2450 b:sad

    I want the phoenix because I think its pretty. b:cute
  • B_O_N_D - Lost City
    B_O_N_D - Lost City Posts: 105 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    QQ some moar

    kthnxbai b:victory
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Thanks Forsakenx
  • Darksylph - Heavens Tear
    Darksylph - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,816 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    AndromedaB - Sanctuary wrote: »
    a pheonix (veno battle pet) for 12k

    It's most certainly a lie, because the egg is 100% untradeable. Hercules & Pheonix can not be traded or sold to other players once you've obtained the egg.
  • WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary Posts: 1,686 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    If I ran this game and saw anyone doing this, I'd take every item they had and all their money, plus reduce their character to level 1 and not let them redo any quests. They'd also have no rep. You want to ruin the econ with your greed? I ruin your character.b:chuckle
    Wow. So you would actually take delight in inflicting an extreme punishment on another human being, that far outweighs their perceived "crime", just because you feel a sense of moral superiority?

    This is probably the closest thing to genuine evil I've read on these forums so far.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com
  • AsugoXXX - Heavens Tear
    AsugoXXX - Heavens Tear Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    to say this straight and right if ur buying at such high prices it means you eithier really need it or ur juss a nooob like me but like i bough a log for 2.7k cuz i rellenedded it i new the price tho
  • Hisuna - Sanctuary
    Hisuna - Sanctuary Posts: 1,071 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    Solution to this entire problem: Auction House.

    I won't be caught supporting these loony cat shop prices. I agree that sometimes these cat shops profit from newbies who don't know any better, but it also happens with players who need the items right then and can't find them cheaper in another cat shop. So they grow impatient and buy at ridiculous prices.

    Auction house people, solution to all problems regarding these day to day items.

    I realize this won't help new players that don't even know about the AH, but you impatient players out there, just use it.

    Sorry for this rather late post.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The family is a haven in a heartless world.
    Once a Guardian, Always a Guardian. Element: Fire.
  • Lavinia_may - Heavens Tear
    Lavinia_may - Heavens Tear Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    SOMETHING IS ONLY WORTH WHAT SOMEONE IS WILLING TO PAY FOR IT.

    Very funny how alot of people are getting angry over catshop prices...ever been out in the real world? This is what business is like and yes it's tough and nasty! b:cool

    If I don't like someones prices I don't pay for it, I'm not going to get mad at them because it's their stuff and their choice.

    One of the first things I do before I buy or sell anything I'm not sure about, is check out the market and see what other are doing around me. There is nothing stopping anyone from doing this therefore 'noobs' or rather people who are new to the game are at no disadvantage.

    AND IF YOUR NOT SURE, DON'T BUY IT.

    The gold bar thing does anger me though, because that is pretty nasty but then why would anyone buy something before finding out what it could be used for?

    Don't get mad guys, get wise and do your research!
    ooh and..Happy Trading!
    b:flower
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Sulphor - Sanctuary
    Sulphor - Sanctuary Posts: 112 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    Why in the hell are you complainin' about the economy here? It works fantastically, from everythin' I've seen. It's playerdriven, but has certain higher up restrictions (for instance, gold cannae be sold for more than 1m). 100k/1g is cheap, cheap, cheap.
    On FlyFF the economy has gone abusrdly out of control, purely because people who have too much money use it purely to make more money, and quite literally control the economy. There's nothin' wrong w/ buyin' and sellin' to make a bit of profit, but buyin' up every single item of that kind and sellin' it for 3x the price is out of control.

    Over there, the price of CashShop money is the equivelant to 18m/1g.

    Everythin' here is priced in the thousands, and people are complainin' about things gettin' into the mils region...over there I managed to spend over 20b in a couple of weeks, and still have a lot to get afterwards.

    Money's easy to make here, already. Don't complain about people sellin' things a few K higher for their own profits. If they can sell it, it's ****ed up, but good for him. If not, he got what he deserved for overpricin' items. As long as the generic economical price around the cities is the same margin, what difference does it make to you if one guy scores a few extra K on his sales, or another sells twice as fast at half the price?
  • Kingpiccolo - Heavens Tear
    Kingpiccolo - Heavens Tear Posts: 419 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I don't know how many times I've checked the prices of the mats in the area, then sold the exact same mats right next to those people for 500 coins less. In the morning, I was sold out and their shops hadn't yet sold a thing.
    omg you should get banned for that, being greedy and selling all your things while robbing another player of his business.
  • Stickygreen - Heavens Tear
    Stickygreen - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,158 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    lol i havent read many posts, but are people ACTUALLY complaining aboutCATshop prices? not cashshop, but CATshop prices.... omg lol
    Less QQ more Pew Pewb:thanks

    "Don't argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience."

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary Posts: 1,686 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    Sulphor - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Why in the hell are you complainin' about the economy here? It works fantastically, from everythin' I've seen. It's playerdriven, but has certain higher up restrictions (for instance, gold cannae be sold for more than 1m). 100k/1g is cheap, cheap, cheap.
    On FlyFF the economy has gone abusrdly out of control, purely because people who have too much money use it purely to make more money, and quite literally control the economy. There's nothin' wrong w/ buyin' and sellin' to make a bit of profit, but buyin' up every single item of that kind and sellin' it for 3x the price is out of control.
    I agree with you that the economic system in Perfect World is significantly superior to most games out there. It seems like in most games the designers have no idea about basic economics, and pretty soon prices become hyper-inflated and the actual game currency becomes worthless.

    Blaming the players for the hyper-inflation, however, isn't really correct, because if the economy is a workable one then they wouldn't be able to do what they are doing. It's only when the economy is based on poor game design, and thus inevitably fails, that hyper-inflation starts.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com
  • sarrafeline
    sarrafeline Posts: 152 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    I think 9.7k is a great price for dull claws.

    The other day I went through arch looking for dull claws, and there weren't ANY to be found. NONE. I waited a few hours, and went back, and checked just about every cat shop in the **** city, and still, not a single dull claw to be found. So, I said 'forget this, I'm gonna make a DQ grinding character." So, I created a multi-purpose character, a venomancer that, among other things, will be used to grind for Dull Claws.

    Instead of putting money into the in game economy, I'm activley making money. Now I have enough dull claws to run DQ 20 35 times, I gained about 30k coins, and that chracter leveled up several times.

    Those of you saying that the OP is doing something bad by increasing prices on a high demand item are dead wrong. If the OP's shop hadn't been sold out when I went looking for my Dull Claws, I wouldn't have spent 9 days grinding for dull claws.

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