Rip-off catshop prices

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary
WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary Posts: 1,686 Arc User
edited February 2009 in General Discussion
"What a rip-off!"
"9.75k? na thanks..."
"you lost your mind?"
"NNNOOOOOOOOOB!"
"9.7k for dull claws?! omg!"
"lol stupid noob"
"lowr yur prices"
"OVERCHARGING (censored)!"

My girlfriend and I have been playing PW together for a little less than two months now, and together we've accumulated about 6,000,000 in coins by selling stuff in cat-shops.

It seems like each day, we Alt-Tab back to the game to find the same two things:

1) A bunch of messages telling us how stupid we are for having our prices so high that nobody will ever buy our stuff
2) A bunch of notes telling us we've sold ~50k-300k worth of stuff that day

I admit, we're both level 33 "noobs" to the game, and frankly I don't know if what we're doing is the most efficient way to make money or not. But we're pretty laid-back about actually leveling up / completing quests / etc..., and hey, we're having fun.

We've been gradually raising our prices and trying to balance things out so that our stock sells at roughly the same rate we can replenish it, but it seems like no matter how "ridiculous" we set our prices, people keep buying.

So what, if anything, is a "rip-off" price? I get accused of it all the time, but it's somewhat hard to believe when I keep selling out.
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Post edited by WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary on
«13

Comments

  • Twilyte - Heavens Tear
    Twilyte - Heavens Tear Posts: 131 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    Don't worry about the haters. If something sells at your prices, keep selling at those prices.

    Probably just some twits that don't know how to manage their own money, so they need to look for bargin basement prices because they can't afford yours.

    The main thing: are you having fun and enjoying how you play? If you answer yes, then carry on with it!!

    b:victory
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • bobzilla21
    bobzilla21 Posts: 694 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    9.7k for a dull claw? How do you manage to sell that?
    BTW, the only people that buy things at rip-off prices like that are usually people that have no idea what the item is really worth (aka noobs).
    If you're wondering why 9.7k for a dull claw is a rip-off price, look at other shops, I've never seen anyone sell them for over 5k (and even that's a rip-off).
    I suppose it's partly the shoppers fault for buying those, but I really don't like people that are making high prices just to take advantage of newbies.
    I figured I should do something with my sig, so I made this for fun. My very first (poorly made) animation. b:victory
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    As for why Luffy is murdering Naruto, I have no idea either, but it looks cool.b:laugh
  • Warmaiden - Lost City
    Warmaiden - Lost City Posts: 81 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    9.5k for Dull Claws is absurb. The ones that tells you that are not the ones buying from you. The people that is funding you are noobs. You are exploiting their lack of knowledge and money management. Also, you are throwing item prices off balance and messing with the in-game economy. I despise people that add to this inflated price problem. However, I find it worse for the noobs to feed people like you and continue this bad cycle.
  • WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary Posts: 1,686 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    9.5k for Dull Claws are absurb. The ones that tells you that are not the ones buying from you. The people that is funding you are noobs. You are exploiting their lack of knowledge and money management.

    Um, ok, educate me. I'm a level 33 noob who has only been playing the game since November. I have no idea what items "should" or "should not" sell for, so I set the prices based upon how much supply I have versus what demand there seems to be.

    The people who are buying the dull claws from me are roughly my level, so they probably know just as much about the game as I do.
    Also, you are throwing item prices off balance and messing with the in-game economy.

    Wow! I must totally rule to wield so much power! b:victory
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  • DeliaLotus - Lost City
    DeliaLotus - Lost City Posts: 100 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    If 9.7k was the economy's value of a dull claw, no one would complain, even if you could only sell it to an NPC for it's 1350 (approx). Case: Mirage Celestones. Most Higher items seem to actually be worth more than NPC prices.

    But most cat shops I've seen don't trade for anywhere near the true value - they often buy materials for around 25% of what they sell them for - which is an awfully large profit to be making simply as a re-sale vendor.

    It just makes shopping around a pain, honestly. 1.5x-2x an items' NPC value seems about right (at least for the level 20-30 phase items).

    I try hard not to buy at cat shops because of this - the way they operate right now means it's always *much* better to be on the shop side, whether buying or selling.

    So I've switched to trading coins for bank extension stones and trying to accumulate the items i need myself. It gets annoying when you run out of slots and have to sell off element shards, only to have to go buy some for 4x their value when you get your next quest.

    So I'd say anything higher than other store's average price is *definitely* a rip-off, and over 1.5x-20.x NPC price is rather absurd overpricing in cat shops.
  • Warmaiden - Lost City
    Warmaiden - Lost City Posts: 81 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Wow! I must totally be one of those people that add to the inflated price problem! From now on, I will be a smarter seller and sell items at a reasonable price. Who knows? Maybe I can make even more money by being a seller thats knows the true meaning of supply and demand! b:victory

    *Claps for you*b:pleased
  • WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary Posts: 1,686 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    DeliaLotus - Lost City wrote: »
    It gets annoying when you run out of slots and have to sell off element shards, only to have to go buy some for 4x their value when you get your next quest.

    So I'd say anything higher than other store's average price is *definitely* a rip-off, and over 1.5x-20.x NPC price is rather absurd overpricing in cat shops.
    I understand your point, but when I've set my prices to be what I thought were "reasonable", I sold out almost right away, even though my shop was set up overnight and while I was at work, which left me feeling like a sucker who just threw away free money! b:sad
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  • WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary Posts: 1,686 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    Warmaiden - Lost City wrote: »
    From now on, I will be a smarter seller and sell items at a reasonable price. Who knows? Maybe I can make even more money by being a seller thats knows the true meaning of supply and demand!
    Heh... putting silly words in my mouth!

    I'm puzzled though, because how exactly would I make MORE money by selling out at a lower price than I do by selling out at a higher price?

    For example, at 9.75k, ~12 dull claws will sell in 16 hours on a weekday. So, if I've got 11 and I sell for less, my character will just be standing there, empty-handed, long before I get home from work.

    Or are you using some magical touchy-feely definition of "supply and demand" I don't know about?
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  • DeliaLotus - Lost City
    DeliaLotus - Lost City Posts: 100 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    I know, that post isn't directed just at you, but many cat shops in general. I think if you're at the point where people are spending the time and effort to write a comment telling you you're overpriced, you're probably way over.

    I'm not saying you're doing anything *wrong*. Nobody has to buy at your prices, and you aren't deceiving customers about what they're getting. But at a certain point, as others said, the sales are to people who don't realize that your price is that high compared to others... and then you're benefiting from their losses, or ripping them off.

    So it's customers responsibility too, but it's unkind to try to benefit yourself by detracting from others' game experience. I'm not saying that you're trying to do that - or you wouldn't have posted here.

    Perhaps if a "search for" could be implemented for local cat shops a more stable economy would develop.
  • DeliaLotus - Lost City
    DeliaLotus - Lost City Posts: 100 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »
    For example, at 9.75k, ~12 dull claws will sell in 16 hours on a weekday. So, if I've got 11 and I sell for less, my character will just be standing there, empty-handed, long before I get home from work.

    Or are you using some magical touchy-feely definition of "supply and demand" I don't know about?

    It's monopolistically competitive supply and demand that seems to operate in Perfect World. Cat shops compete with other cat shops, but players have a limited ability to know other prices, and so a partial monopoly develops.

    In normal supply and demand (of such a sort), lowering prices can increase revenue. But when your cat is sitting there for a set time period anyways, this doesn't work. So no, you probably wouldn't earn more money by lowering prices. But if PWI's economy [instead] operated on a somewhat rational scale you would.
  • WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary Posts: 1,686 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    DeliaLotus - Lost City wrote: »
    Perhaps if a "search for" could be implemented for local cat shops a more stable economy would develop.
    DeliaLotus - Lost City wrote: »
    It's monopolistically competitive supply and demand that seems to operate in Perfect World. Cat shops compete with other cat shops, but players have a limited ability to know other prices, and so a partial monopoly develops.
    Knowing prices would certainly help, for both parties. I've already sold many valuable items for far less than their actual value, just because I didn't know any better.

    In fact, I almost sold my Christmas card #21 (useless for me, and I can't even remember where/when I got it) for 10k two days ago, thinking that was a "reasonable" price, only to discover today that they are selling for ~200k in Archosaur! b:shocked
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  • Miugre - Heavens Tear
    Miugre - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    Okay, is every price in Sanctuary just ridiculous or something? Maybe because fewer people play there?

    On Heaven's Tear I'll sell Dull Claws for 5k apeice, and they don't always sell, either. I've actually offered them to people in the field when they ask, and then they yell at me for asking for that 5k market price. Any MMO economy is a market - it's just sad that some people try (and often succeed) to exploit that market.

    A few other things I'll sell on Heaven's Tear include: Mirage Celestones for 30k (well okay, this week it's 25k thanks to the Xmas Event - I refuse to go lower on them, market be damned), Nectar for 800 per piece, and sometimes DQ items (in regards to the first two, anyone's welcome to place orders XD). DQ20 stuff goes for 1200-1600. DQ31 stuff goes for about 2.5k, not counting Dull Claws. DQ41 and above, eh. Just sell them to a vendor.

    Oh, and if it's Christmas-related, all bets are off. Personally I've gotten more than sick of the card-crazed market these past two weeks, and so aside from putting my two remaining Card #20s in my shop sometimes (for 40k... anyone want em? XD), I've washed my hands of that particular madness. -_-

    Was there anything else you wanted a market price on? o.O
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]

    Other Active Characters:
    LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).
  • WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary Posts: 1,686 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Okay, is every price in Sanctuary just ridiculous or something? Maybe because fewer people play there?
    The 9.75k dull claw price is an anomaly here on Sanctuary too. 5k seems to be about the normal maximum price, but I happened to have figured out some locations where they sell for much higher (in small quantities).

    The other prices you quoted are about the same on Sanctuary as well.
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  • Saitada - Sanctuary
    Saitada - Sanctuary Posts: 3,220 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    The reality is, people will pay high prices for an item, if they need or want it bad enough. I've seen people selling things for ridiculous prices, and getting them, simply because someone wanted it "Now" and was too impatient to wait to find a better price. Myself included (being impatient).

    Personally, If the product is selling in a timely fashion for you, keep selling them at those prices and adjust as supply/demand dictates for you.

    Don't worry about what anyone else says. If it sells. That is all that matters. Capitalism at it's finest.

    Saitada
  • Miugre - Heavens Tear
    Miugre - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    Well if it's a location thing, yeah, okay. People don't have much room to complain if they won't go find their stuff in the most competitive market in the game (Archosaur). Hell, one time I opened a shop in Wellspring to sell Hay... it was right next to a shop which was selling it for 7,900 or something, with "Hay" in the title. So I set mine up directly to its right, titled it "Cheaper Hay :)" and put mine at... I think either 5.5k or 6k. It sold out within ten minutes. :P

    EDIT @Saitada: Oh ****, the impatience. I'm sadly a victim of it myself, particularly when it comes to a stackable item that I need (like when I want to dye something). Why do you think Hay sells so well? I have a RL friend who plays a low-level Veno, and she asked me today about the pet bag extension quest. I asked her if she thought her current bag was too small... and she said no. "Well, there you have it, wait 5 or 10 levels and gather your own Hay."
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]

    Other Active Characters:
    LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).
  • haku
    haku Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    Once I saw a catshop selling Gold Bars for 75k. That's what I would call a rip-off. Those bars are good for nothing but selling to npc's for 10k. And there are catshops that sell those pet name collars for over 10k. Obviously those catshops are intentionally trying to rip-off newbies who don't know that you can buy them from npc's for only 10k.

    IMO yes you're selling dull claws @ higher than average market price, but it doesn't qualify as a rip-off. Dull claws are such a hot item becuz it has many uses, i.e. expanding bank safe slots, starting dragon quests, lvl 31 dragon quests, beastkind flying quest. You haven't lied. you have given them all the correct information: what you're selling and for how much. There's a gazillion cat shops around you, at least some of them also selling dull claws and maybe at lower prices. And you can get dull claws for free from mob drops. There are plenty of websites and databases that tell you what drops what. It's entirely up to the buyers to decide whether or not to accept your price. If they decide that 9k each is worth the bank safe slots/dragon quest/etc, then that's entirely up to them.

    I've had ppl yell at me for setting high prices even though I was selling at or LOWER than average market price. So there will always be a few kids out there who will try to bully you into lower your prices. And since this is capitalism, as long as it sells and makes good money for you, and as long as you don't break any (game)laws or ruin your won reputation so badly that ppl will no longer buy from you, then it's all good.
  • crazyxkeunz
    crazyxkeunz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    I sell bronze heroes for a higher price than normal, 110k. I'm not ripping them off, it is not my fault that they do not have the brains to find out what the real price of an item is. All you have to do is ask for a Price Check in Trade chat, I have done that many times before for items I didn't know the price to, and I received positive answers. I even had a person buy two heroes from me yesterday, while complaining about my high prices. Theres was this one hilarious exchange.

    Other guy: "You said offer, I said 80k each, why don't you accept"
    Me: "There is only one function of the word "offer", that is the remote chance that they might offer more than you are currently selling for.
    Other guy: "Well, when I see someone wanting to buy for more than my selling price, I decrease my selling price to sell to them"
    Me: "Well I'm sorry that I'm not that generous."

    lol, I just thought it was funny that a person would deliberately lose money to make a person happy. BTW, I don't think you are ripping anyone off at all, if they want to buy at a higher price, by all means sell it to them. If they complain about it later on, it's their fault, I have bought Chientien Armor shards for 40k each once, thinking it was worth around 70k each (most cat shops were selling around that price), learning later that it was only worth about 20k each lol. That was my fault, I did not check my sources, I cannot blame anyone but myself for that.
  • ShadeKitty - Sanctuary
    ShadeKitty - Sanctuary Posts: 80 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    Well first let me say, roflcopter at the 9.7k dull claws, and I am sorry for whoever paid that much for them. The reality though, is the people who buy for outrageous prices either don't know better, or are lazy, or are desperate. I would never pay more than 4-5k for a dull claw, but then again I know more than some newer players. Is it wrong for you to sell at outrageous prices like this? IMO no. It is the fault of the consumer, not the seller. Besides, if people don't like your prices, they don't have to buy anything.
  • ShadowDrag - Lost City
    ShadowDrag - Lost City Posts: 291 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    damn if u can sell a dull claw for like 9k, go for it! wow..ur gona be RICH when u hit lv ...like...50..and 6 mill in catshops at lv 33? (i kno there r 2 ppl) and again if u can sell those stuff at that price, u'd be rich and u can probally buy crazy armor when u get to higher lvs...who cares? and if they stop buy, then u ssohuld lower the price :)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • fuzzles
    fuzzles Posts: 628 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    Ehh.. every time I pass a kitty balloon with a ridiculous price I quietly chuckle to myself, maybe flame a little under my breath.. I just assume that those people never sell anything.

    If people are stupid enough to buy things at such exorbitant prices.. hell, why not. Go for it. At the bare bones of it, the game economy is a competition after all. You want their money to become your money. If you're pulling it off, no reason to stop.

    I'll just reserve my disgust for the idiots who actually buy things at those prices.
    Everyone here is ridiculously oversensitive.
  • rugal
    rugal Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    Well if you leave your shop afk long enough youre bound to sell eventually.Once they go to another catshop and see that they can get their dull claws for half the price, they'll have learned their lesson at least, and you'll lose a potential repeat customer. Pray that there are a never ending supply of noobs that can't be bothered to check a couple of cat shops before buying yours b:chuckle


    I dont feel sorry for the "noobs" who buy overpriced items though. If it was a rare item its hard to compare prices in cat shops, but dqs are common, he should shop around 20 secs before buying.
  • BobbyQ - Heavens Tear
    BobbyQ - Heavens Tear Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    I personally never buy DQ items from a cat shop. It is way to easy to go kill mobs for them. With the PW data base telling you exactly where to go farm items why would anyone ever buy DQ items from cat shops?

    About the only things I buy from cat shops are crafting mats. Only after I've checked them all do I purchase. I see silk thread going fro anywhere from 5K, which I would never buy, to 1.5K that shop I bought them out.

    Even being a new player, you should know better then buy from the first shop you see. If he is selling dull claws at 9.75K a piece, surely there are other shops near him that are selling them much much lower.
  • Jayde_videl - Heavens Tear
    Jayde_videl - Heavens Tear Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    I often see catshops buying a certain item for a low amount and at the same time in their selling section, you see the exact same item being sold for a much higher price. Here's a picture to show you what I mean by that.

    http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=001pf3.jpg

    Most players are greedy, plain and simple. They probably see someone offering to buy an item for a specific high amount and think that's what the item is actually worth. 2+ mil for a bikini top (as an example)? Yeah... right...
    Jayde_Videl - lvl 6x venomancer - Heavens Tear
    RainbowVidel - lvl 3x venomancer - Sanctuary
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    Jayde_videl - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I often see catshops buying a certain item for a low amount and at the same time in their selling section, you see the exact same item being sold for a much higher price. Here's a picture to show you what I mean by that.

    http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=001pf3.jpg

    Most players are greedy, plain and simple. They probably see someone offering to buy an item for a specific high amount and think that's what the item is actually worth. 2+ mil for a bikini top (as an example)? Yeah... right...

    If I ran this game and saw anyone doing this, I'd take every item they had and all their money, plus reduce their character to level 1 and not let them redo any quests. They'd also have no rep. You want to ruin the econ with your greed? I ruin your character.b:chuckle
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • swgs
    swgs Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    If I ran this game and saw anyone doing this, I'd take every item they had and all their money, plus reduce their character to level 1 and not let them redo any quests. They'd also have no rep. You want to ruin the econ with your greed? I ruin your character.b:chuckle

    Walmart should sell all of their products ate the price lower then the cost? buy low sell high is called business.
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    swgs wrote: »
    Walmart should sell all of their products ate the price lower then the cost? buy low sell high is called business.

    In this case its greed. I have seen another mmo have its econ crash because people that did this. They kept buying up anything reasonably priced and selling it for more. They made prices go so high on the server that 1/2 the population quit the game due to it being impossible to ever afford anything, plus the entire econ crashed because of this. The game is ruined. You want to ruin this one as well?

    Short version: If you see a low priced item a player is selling, you leave it for a player who is actually going to use that item.
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • swgs
    swgs Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    In this case its greed. I have seen another mmo have its econ crash because people that did this. They kept buying up anything reasonably priced and selling it for more. They made prices go so high on the server that 1/2 the population quit the game due to it being impossible to ever afford anything, plus the entire econ crashed because of this. The game is ruined. You want to ruin this one as well?

    Short version: If you see a low priced item a player is selling, you leave it for a player who is actually going to use that item.

    I do not want to ruin this game for sure, but it is consumer's fault when they buy over priced item. buy low sell high itself has nothing wrong, some players get too greedy? yes, I think so too, but the practice itself has no problem at all. When I need something, and can not find any one selling them at a reasonable price, I wait, until I can find a reasonable price or setup a catshop to buy items if I have need several items.
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    In reality the seller should not even be selling an overpriced item to begin with.
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • papewaio
    papewaio Posts: 5
    edited January 2009
    What kind of world do you live in? Wal-mart buys pillows for $4, and sells them to you for $5, should we get the government in on it to sue them into oblivion?

    Seriously, do you want mods going around deciding what market prices should be? Now, maybe I'm just a huge expert, but I thought it was obvious that:

    1. You don't have to buy ANYTHING from cat shops
    2. If it's a high price consistently, people are paying it.

    Penalizing players for obeying free market principles is a sure way to communism. Do you want to tithe 10% of your daily drops to n00bs to make everything more fair? Make sure you tithe 10% of your experience as well.
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    Actually if I made an mmo I'd set the prices and they would never change, ever. You can sell for lower but never for higher than the price I set.

    Either that or flag each item so that the price it gets sold at in a cat shop can never be more than half of what it was sold at last time.

    In real life there are suppliers that do not sell to regular people. Get your facts straight things are different.
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91

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