role of a veno

Vinat - Sanctuary
Vinat - Sanctuary Posts: 1,200 Arc User
edited January 2009 in Venomancer
if classes are divided into groups, like barb = tank, wiz = damage dealer, cleric = healer... where does a veno fit into all this?

had someone recently say to me that basically a veno is completely useless and that ill never get to zhen when i get to that lvl (tho i still donno what zhen is, just know its the high lvl way of grinding) bcuz no one is gonna want a veno in a zhen party
Post edited by Vinat - Sanctuary on

Comments

  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    Its a bunch of high levels that have no idea how to spell thats all it is. Look at the game, its Zen. Where does that stupid h fit?

    Venos are the solo class and their pets can tank quite well. Also needed for dungeons if you want your party to stay alive. They can do good damage and have many debuffs to make things die much faster.
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • Vinat - Sanctuary
    Vinat - Sanctuary Posts: 1,200 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    i never use fox form tho...
  • Tawarwaith - Sanctuary
    Tawarwaith - Sanctuary Posts: 391 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    Foxform allows you to create a completely different type of veno. Most go for a magebuild veno; They cast spells, while their pet keep aggro. I'm currently lvling a purefoxform veno. They have different unique skills; not really focussing on damage, but on weakening the enemy in other ways (cancel active buffs, prolonge channeling time, ...). The "heavy build fox veno's" are quite rare, and both builds are incompatible. If you're going magebuild, you can use foxform when traveling; you're def will be higher, so you won't suffer much damage when running past mobs.
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    From what I understand, the only people who are "needed" in a zhen party are a mage/archer and cleric. The blademaster and barbarian just run around with mounts to lure the mobs to the AOE circle of death. Seems to me a light/heavy armor veno in foxform on a mount could easily do that. Add the hp/mp swap skill acting like a heiro with effectively two self-heal skills, and you could probably do it for cheaper than a blademaster or barb.
  • Byno - Sanctuary
    Byno - Sanctuary Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    Venos are the mage class of the Untamed, but they can really fit into multiple roles, depending on how you use it. Honestly, venos are one of the most versatile classes. The only problem is a veno falls into the scenario that you're good at a lot of things, not awesome at one thing like a lot of other classes.

    In dungeons, when taking down mobs the veno is firstly the lure, obviously. This is the one thing that venos do that really no one else can, and what makes them the most useful in a party/dungeon setting. When actually fighting the mobs, the veno becomes a smaller dd, depending on the build. I find a lot of full int venos are really just wizards with pets and different spells, half the time. A veno can also be a makeshift tank, and have the pet tank a stray mob that might come up on the party and keep it occupied while the main tank deals with the first mob.

    The most interesting 'role' a veno can play is how they assist with boss fights. One skill that a lot of venos seem to neglect is Lending Hand, and I don't understand why. Who wouldn't want to be throwing sparks at their tank? Tank gets sparks, tank uses more aggro skills, dds can spam more damage without taking aggro. The second skill that's always extremely useful is Amplified Damage. Venos may not be the best dds, but when you curse the boss to take 20% more damage from everyone else? Things go by a lot faster.

    And then there's a veno's ability to amp and purge tanks during TWs, and I know I've lured plenty of zhens...

    So really, once you get past the idea that all venos do is lure, you find they can actually do quite a few things.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Poison - Heavens Tear
    Poison - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,444 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    Byno - Sanctuary wrote: »
    The most interesting 'role' a veno can play is how they assist with boss fights. One skill that a lot of venos seem to neglect is Lending Hand, and I don't understand why. Who wouldn't want to be throwing sparks at their tank? Tank gets sparks, tank uses more aggro skills, dds can spam more damage without taking aggro. The second skill that's always extremely useful is Amplified Damage. Venos may not be the best dds, but when you curse the boss to take 20% more damage from everyone else? Things go by a lot faster.

    Yep. I'm amazed how often I get asked what I'm doing by going fox form and running up to a boss, then running back, taking normal form and throwing spells at it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • VenLo - Sanctuary
    VenLo - Sanctuary Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    Poison - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Yep. I'm amazed how often I get asked what I'm doing by going fox form and running up to a boss, then running back, taking normal form and throwing spells at it.

    I was curious about this as I read it was a veno role ina group. Unfortunately I haven't yet been in a dungeon group for anything. Everyone wants to be run through it by high levels, though I was looking forward to low level dungeons to learn my class in a group role.i did go to FB19 alone to learn about and practice pulling.

    Does going fox to amp damage and coming back out to cast/pull strain your mana due to the mana reduction of fox form?
  • Byno - Sanctuary
    Byno - Sanctuary Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    VenLo - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Does going fox to amp damage and coming back out to cast/pull strain your mana due to the mana reduction of fox form?

    It definately does. If I have a mana charm on, it always ticks it. Because it's not that hard to keep a good amount of mana using the mana/health regen spells combo'd with a soul transfusion and some cleric assistance, I usually don't bother with the mana charm in dungeons. So in boss battles, I cheat by only going in to amp after I've shot 20% of my mana off in scarabs so I'm not losing anything.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Lochiel - Sanctuary
    Lochiel - Sanctuary Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    I'm sort of with VenLo. I'd like to get a group of people together to run dungeons to see how they work and learn how to pull, ect. in a dungeon rather than have some high level with wine walk me through it.
    I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.
    ~Oscar Wilde
  • Hari - Heavens Tear
    Hari - Heavens Tear Posts: 133 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    As a veno, as was said earlier I think, you are good at a lot of things but great at none of them.

    In my opinion, venos really shine in TT, because:
    - you can solo in solo mode
    - your luring is almost necessary for any TT run (that being said, I've seen barbs lure all of a TT... but that's rare, and can only be done in the first act)
    - your pet almost does more damage than a pure mag wizard on bosses
    - in the case of some bosses your purge skill is absolutely necessary
    - because TT bosses take 75% less damage, amplify damage helps a LOT
    - lending hand is sometimes vital to the success of the TT run, especially if the tank dies
    - you can act as a supporting tank or mobs (at lvl 77 as a LA veno, I can solo the catacomb dragons in TT 1-3 group mode - arguably the hardest non-boss in TT 1-3)

    Outside of TT, I wouldn't use amplify damage much... purge is useful in PK or TW, and luring is helpful in fb's, but your main role outside of TT is a solo class.

    Hell, I've solod those 3 lvl 65 boss versions of Cyannair spectres near the end of Wraith's Ploy... yeah, they took me about 20 minutes each one (my crystalline magmite being the only DD), but the fact is I did it, without any pots or hieros or anything (soul transfusion is a lifesaver... it has an instant cast time, so you can continue healing pet)

    Well, back on track... your main role is 1v1 PvE solo class. That's pretty much it. Your damage is bad compared to any other class (I've been outhit by a barb if you don't count pet damage), and you're pretty much a cleric and BM 20 levels lower than your veno's actual level combined... but the fact is, venos can solo any mob (water is the hardest, but doable if you have a water pet... I've even resorted to "fishing" water mobs with my air pet), up to like 10 levels higher than them, as long as you're not a heavy veno.

    NOTE: In my opinion, don't become a heavy veno unless you want to PK, as they suck. Even if you DO want to PK, it's still probably better to become a BM (close-range melee dmg - BMs hit higher than heavy venos), or a cleric (debuffs, with a great long range melee attack [plume shot]). I like being a light veno because I have good pdef (I can get like 7k when buffed in fox form), decent mdef (ditto to last comment, except doesn't need fox form) and I just use citrines on all my gear for hp... yes I sacrifice damage but face it, you don't become a veno to DD.

    Also... after about level 40, when you get soul transfusion, metabolic boost, and nature's grace (level these ASAP always btw), you can pretty much grind without pots or a charm...

    Speaking of charms, I wouldn't recommend an MP charm for venos. Frankly, it's unneccessary. I've found hp charms to be useful certainly, even as a light armour veno, but MP charms... if your nature's grace isn't covering it, for some reason, use soul transfusion when your MP is just above 50% (this avoids ticking your hp charm), and then use metabolic boost... effectively another nature's grace.

    Even spamming DD a boss with mass hp like Shooting Aur: Substancia in TT 1-3 while using amplify damage in fox form etc., I still don't run out of mana, without using charms or pots. And all my DD skills are maxed, plus my fox form for amplify damage takes away 20% of max mana... so if you're running out of mana while I'm not doing that, you're definitely doing something wrong b:chuckle.


    Okay... end of ramble. Basically, you're a:
    - support tank
    - lurer in TT and FB (you can even lure in zhen with a mount, just most zhen parties like to have a barb or BM because of the hp/pdef boost... but bramble helps too)
    - 1v1 PvE solo-er
    - a weak phys and magic DD (but both at the same time, making you a decent DD)
    - debuffer
    - money maker (some people even have a veno alt for making money, as you can grind for DQ mats without using pots or charms), although I would argue that a barb (most desired for TT) could make more money per hour than a veno can


    Downsides of being a veno:
    - besides luring in TT and FB's, you're not great at anything...
    - due to both the ease at which venos make money and the ease at which they grind, from 1/3 to 1/2 of all players in PW are venos... meaning it's HARD to find squads
    - despite the ease at which you do 1v1 PvE, you'll find that anything more than 1v1 is hard, due to your squishiness... an arcane veno with no charm being attacked by a ranged mob is more or less screwed (can you say 3-hit?)


    WARNING: although playing a veno IS hard, most players have no idea how hard, as they've probably only gotten one to lvl 30 MAX (if at all), and as such they've only had to deal with 1v1 PvE, which is a veno's strong point (once you start getting flying mobs or water mobs in quests, or you get to 60+ and want to farm fb's/zhen/TT, you'll find playing a veno a completely different story). Because they think playing a veno is extremely easy, you'll probably suffer a lot of criticism, or be blatantly turned down because of your class (I hear "IMBA" followed by some curses directed at me several times a day)
    HT clerics at their finest:

    hari: can you do mdef debuffs? makes the fight go faster
    naughty_x: waste, I do more damage without them
    hari: ...you do more damage in 2 seconds than reducing mdef by 35% for 4 casters does in 20 seconds?
    naughty_x: is waste, i do more damage

    hari: 3-3 BH goes a lot faster with a sin
    naughty_x: no, only a difference of like 3 minutes
    hari: ...we've been in here a lot longer than 3 minutes already
    naughty_x: your opinion
  • Poiss - Sanctuary
    Poiss - Sanctuary Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited January 2009
    Hari: thanks for relaying your experiences as a veno. It was a very interesting read.

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