sage or demon for tanking

Wulph - Heavens Tear · January 2009

updated:

so basicly sage gets 180% wep dmg(including our poison) from their own spells but suffers 50% wep dmg redution so it goes up to 130% only.

demon gets 165% wep dmg increase by spells and suffer no redutions.

if this is the case, then demon only sees a 35% more wep dmg increase than sage and has a higher crit rate. sage has 10% more hp and 40% more phisical defence. Sage also heals for more when devour is used.

senovit · January 2009

You've pretty much hit the nail on the head regarding the benefits of both sides. Basically, going heaven will help you tank bosses that you wouldn't be able to otherwise, such as some of the world bosses / tt bosses that would be impossible otherwise. And going hell will limit the number of bosses you can tank, but as you said, will help you keep aggro much easier on them.

Klath - Sanctuary · January 2009

as for sage. i dont lvl true form so my dmg is reduced by only 20%, i have 40% increased health due to sage

You need lv3 to learn lv4 (sage). So you cant get that 40% hp without getting the -50% attack damage.

Wulph - Heavens Tear · January 2009

Klath - Sanctuary wrote: »

You need lv3 to learn lv4 (sage). So you cant get that 40% hp without getting the -50% attack damage.

well thats heart breaking

. if thats the case it will be a bit harder to hold aggro on multi mobs.

senovit · January 2009

You're never really going to be tanking multiple mobs. Your main job is to tank bosses. If you guys are aoe'ing, the archers will be the ones that pull aggro. If you accidentally aggro 2 mobs or something, you can always just aoe once to prevent the second mob from aggroing the cleric, then tell the rest of the party to assist attack you to target the same mob as you, and finish that one off quickly while the other one smacks at you.

thom · January 2009

Well dunno about you, but i NEVER hold agro with pure dmg if other squad members are hitting the same monster.

Its always bleed that keeps the agro, not the dmg. Roar helps too.
When i tank 2-3 dungeon mobs at time, aoe's help to keep the agro against cleric heals from the extra mobs nobody else is hitting and i also have plenty of time to hit bleeds on all before first one runs out or agro chances. Then our squad can nuke in full force as long as bleeds are on.

We sometimes take several at once so its bit faster than luring 1 by 1

Klath - Sanctuary · January 2009

We sometimes take several at once so its bit faster than luring 1 by 1

May look faster, but you only gained a few seconds. While your repair bill will certain double if you do that too often.
If your pullers are smart, they will pull a new mob when previous one is at 10%-ish HP.

thom · January 2009

Klath - Sanctuary wrote: »

May look faster, but you only gained a few seconds. While your repair bill will certain double if you do that too often.
If your pullers are smart, they will pull a new mob when previous one is at 10%-ish HP.

Yeah thats one way to do it too. We just do it for fun. Of course it costs more in repairs but that doesnt matter to me. And no,repairs dont go up to double cost.

Wulph - Heavens Tear · January 2009

i was giving a look at the to sticky guides. one does reccomend to balance your char out depending on how you build em.

focused on humanoid, sage for balancing
focused on tiger, demon for balancing.

this is what flips me off a bit.

now for the last poster , if our bleeds hold the aggro then building up my dmg is pointless if that is the case. how do tank builds with sage hold on their own when not grouped.?

thom · January 2009

Wulph - Heavens Tear wrote: »

i was giving a look at the to sticky guides. one does reccomend to balance your char out depending on how you build em.

focused on humanoid, sage for balancing
focused on tiger, demon for balancing.

this is what flips me off a bit.

now for the last poster , if our bleeds hold the aggro then building up my dmg is pointless if that is the case. how do tank builds with sage hold on their own when not grouped.?

Well i can kill at pretty decent speed alone too, of course its slower than with any other class.

Not yet 89 so cant say much for heaven/hell, but going heaven just to be able to tank everything. Dmg i need only for pvp, that can be done with refined weapon to compensate at least a bit.

Klath - Sanctuary · January 2009

Tigers have 4-5 skills that purposedly generate aggro. Just keep casting one after the other and you wont even need to hit the monster.

thom · January 2009

Klath - Sanctuary wrote: »

Tigers have 4-5 skills that purposedly generate aggro. Just keep casting one after the other and you wont even need to hit the monster.

4-5? Barbs have Bleed and Roar to generate aggro according to skill descriptions. No more. Aoe's help a bit but they dont keep aggro nor do they pull it.

Oh yeah and those couple higher level skills.

Edit:Just checked on ecatomb, well there's 3 skills that generate agro, forgot that one lvl79 aoe skill.

Wulph - Heavens Tear · January 2009

any other high lvl barbs want to share some more insight.?

Klath - Sanctuary · January 2009

4-5? Barbs have Bleed and Roar to generate aggro according to skill descriptions. No more. Aoe's help a bit but they dont keep aggro nor do they pull it.

Oh yeah and those couple higher level skills.

Edit:Just checked on ecatomb, well there's 3 skills that generate agro, forgot that one lvl79 aoe skill.

By the order you obtain:
Flesh Ream
Devour
Talk is Cheap
Untamed Wrath

thom · January 2009

Klath - Sanctuary wrote: »

By the order you obtain:
Flesh Ream
Devour
Talk is Cheap
Untamed Wrath

Oh lol Forgot devour too then. Shouldnt post stuff late at night.

Thanks for correcting me,my head is like a sieve sometimes.

Hazardus - Heavens Tear · January 2009

If I ever get to lvl89, I'm going Sage. Why be a tank, if you wanna just do damage? I'd rather be the uber tank. b:laugh

Besides the sage damage buffs more than compensate for the atk reduction in tigerform (imho).

Unconquered - Lost City · January 2009

if you wanna tank just go Heaven.

hell has true form but thats so you can opt to pvp in tiger form, as heaven you get stronger skills and higher % increase from axe/hammer mastery, and higher hp. you also get a stronger spark, and all your base damage is higher than hell barbs.

finally your damage will aways be $hit compared to other classes, the bite+bleed is whats holding the aggro.

fuzzles · January 2009

Damage is meaningless for holding aggro at later levels. 99% of your aggro holding is in the bleeding.

As such, holy works better for tanking, sheerly because it has more HP and phys defense.

Here's the low-down, the skinny, the big, the bad, the good and the ugly.. all rolled into one nifty bite sized bundle of information.
http://www.ecatomb.net/skillpwi.php

Personally, I'm going to hell.. or demon, as they insist on calling it here.

Wulph - Heavens Tear · January 2009

so basicly sage gets 180% wep dmg from their own spells but suffers 50% wep dmg redution so it goes up to 130% only.

demon gets 165% wep dmg increase by spells and suffer no reductions.

Klath - Sanctuary · January 2009

As i already said before. You need to have the skill MAXED to upgrade it to sage OR demon.
Go to www.ecatomb.net, put skill on max level, then hit "skill +" button again, that is the sage/demon upgrade.

Wulph - Heavens Tear · January 2009

actually checking the other versions of the game does clarify it.

The ferenczy - Sanctuary · January 2009

personally i am tank build low damage lower str (just enough to use latest armor **** weaps) i am gonna go sage i never pvp and always love to tank

my friend is a damage build (much more on str) he is gonna go demon i think as he is alway amped up for pvp.

if you ever see us latter don't be in pk LOL

The ferenczy - Sanctuary · January 2009

just jokeing i never go pk i find it distastful

Klath - Sanctuary · January 2009

so basicly sage gets 180% wep dmg(including our poison) from their own spells but suffers 50% wep dmg redution so it goes up to 130% only.

demon gets 165% wep dmg increase by spells and suffer no redutions.

if this is the case, then demon only sees a 35% more wep dmg increase than sage and has a higher crit rate. sage has 10% more hp and 40% more phisical defence. Sage also heals for more when devour is used.so basicly sage gets 180% wep dmg(including our poison) from their own spells but suffers 50% wep dmg redution so it goes up to 130% only.

demon gets 165% wep dmg increase by spells and suffer no redutions.

if this is the case, then demon only sees a 35% more wep dmg increase than sage and has a higher crit rate. sage has 10% more hp and 40% more phisical defence. Sage also heals for more when devour is used.

The calculation is almost correct, will list all damage bonus and penalties:

Sage:
-50% damage on trueform (lv89)
+40% damage on poison fang (lv92)
+50% damage on strenght of titans (lv99)
+100% damage on axe mastery (lv92)

Demon
+50% damage on poison fang (lv92)
+40% damage on strenght of titans (lv99)
+75% damage on axe mastery (lv92)

Sage 240%
Demon 265%

Total of 25% more weapon damage for demons on cat form. Plus 4% extra crits (and 5% for 1 minute from titans buff).
But until lv99, demon has 10% extra damage.

sage or demon for tanking

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