Once and for all FAC or support cleric
Dirik - Sanctuary
Posts: 23 Arc User
Ok, now i've read ALOT of threads about this subject. And i read Caeyons guide and other guides. Sum ppl say FAC is good up until level70 others say no its bad from the start while others say clerics only job is to heal. Now from what i can see (correct me if i'm wrong) FAC and support clerics hav pretty much the same build. everythin in magic and the rest into strenght wen needed. The difference is the skills. Now ders a debate over whether FAC's are all attack skills and no heal or attack and minimal heal. but from what i know it is impossible to be a cleric without knowing how to heal. SO from all this useless stuff which are stronger FAC of mages? Which are more needed? and how are support clerics passed level 70?
****please no trash talk or putting others down its jst a gameb:victory*****
****please no trash talk or putting others down its jst a gameb:victory*****
Post edited by Dirik - Sanctuary on
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Read the million of other threads and posts one more time and decide for yourself. Everything that's been productive to say has been said (and plenty of stuff that wasn't).
Asking this is just begging for another flametastic debate to start up again.0 -
CatwalkOrin - Sanctuary wrote: »Read the million of other threads and posts one more time and decide for yourself. Everything that's been productive to say has been said (and plenty of stuff that wasn't).
Asking this is just begging for another flametastic debate to start up again.
lol i suppose u r right. guess i'll decide for myselfb:victory0 -
Clerics can heal, but so can the wizards. Do people expect wizards to stay behind just to heal them? As clerics, I think there is lots of satisfaction in knowing we can deal heavy damage while taking care of ourselves at the same time.
I witnessed recently someone flaming a cleric and calling him/her a disgrace because he/she didn't act as the party healer. To avoid misunderstandings, we should follow Cayeon's advice and let players know what we're trying to achieve before we join a party, not after.
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ExELFine - Heavens Tear wrote: »Clerics can heal, but so can the wizards. Do people expect wizards to stay behind just to heal them? As clerics, I think there is lots of satisfaction in knowing we can deal heavy damage while taking care of ourselves at the same time.
People don't expect wizards to stay behind and heal because wizards aren't good at it. IMO wizards heal are ****, especially when compared to a cleric. It's the same the other way around.
Go and be your FAC if you want, but the reason people want clerics in parties is for the heal. If they wanted a Damage Dealer they would have chosen a wizard, because even if you say cleric damage = wizard damage (which I disagree with), wizards have element advantages with 3 different elements, clerics only have one element advantage, and if they're faced against a mob with an element advantage over them - well you're screwed.0 -
Enoteca - Sanctuary wrote: »People don't expect wizards to stay behind and heal because wizards aren't good at it. IMO wizards heal are ****, especially when compared to a cleric. It's the same the other way around.
Go and be your FAC if you want, but the reason people want clerics in parties is for the heal. If they wanted a Damage Dealer they would have chosen a wizard, because even if you say cleric damage = wizard damage (which I disagree with), wizards have element advantages with 3 different elements, clerics only have one element advantage, and if they're faced against a mob with an element advantage over them - well you're screwed.
Who's saying our damage is equal to Wizards? It's not.Mark 12:29-37
_WillFire_ 8x Combat Medic0 -
_WillFire_ - Sanctuary wrote: »Who's saying our damage is equal to Wizards? It's not.
I've read alot of FAC vs wizards, and there are quite a few FAC's that insist they do equal damage to wizards - if not more.
I don't pretend to have enough experience to argue either side to death, and unlike (what seems like) the majority of non-FAC's I don't have a problem with them, and would welcome a FAC in to a party.
FOR ME, I don't see the point in playing one, but for others, they can be a great choice.0 -
You forget that clerics also have physical damage, the only mobs we are really weak to are metal mobs with increased deff whereas a mage will suffer vs anything with increased mag deff. Not saying our damages are the same just something to note.
-Veritas0 -
First of all, at lvl 53 I can already heal for bosses easily even with a full attack build. The spirit points required to get ironheart to lvl 6-7 are pretty low, tbh. I am often in parties as a healer and I can deal serious dmg. I have debuffs that lower p.def and i have plume shot that is fast and pretty seirous, with my 250ish magic I do 2400base magic dmg and that is enough to kill mobs in 4-5 hits in my own lvl.
Honestly, is played right a FAC cleric can take care of himself and the party, it is all about the player.0 -
Enoteca - Sanctuary wrote: »I've read alot of FAC vs wizards, and there are quite a few FAC's that insist they do equal damage to wizards - if not more.
I don't pretend to have enough experience to argue either side to death, and unlike (what seems like) the majority of non-FAC's I don't have a problem with them, and would welcome a FAC in to a party.
FOR ME, I don't see the point in playing one, but for others, they can be a great choice.
Thing is that a Cleric can be a massive damage dealer *but* Wizards excel more at it. Since Wizards received Undine Strike they are the most dangerous 1 on 1 opponent.
That said an FAC can *also* ruin your day. Or make it. b:victoryMark 12:29-37
_WillFire_ 8x Combat Medic0 -
VeritasVis - Lost City wrote: »the only mobs we are really weak to are metal mobs with increased deff
What about fire mobs?_WillFire_ - Sanctuary wrote: »That said an FAC can *also* ruin your day. Or make it. b:victory
I just liked this quote...
Actually, in one on one pvp, aren't clerics supposed to be really good at beating wizards?
At least, that's what I've read while trolling around the wizard forums. Like I said my exp = not that great, and I don't know THAT much about pvp.0 -
pfft.. i don't care about being fac and i do not care
just as long as you have your Ironheart maxed and atk skills like plume shot, cyclone, weild thunder max you're good and do some vits would be good as well and buffs most important buff are the 2 defenses and the spirit gift.0 -
Enoteca - Sanctuary wrote: »What about fire mobs?
Fire and metal mobs I generally deal with by using plume shot.I just liked this quote...
Thanks!Actually, in one on one pvp, aren't clerics supposed to be really good at beating wizards?
It really depends on who gets the drop on whom first. Early on Clerics have an edge simply because of plume shot. Wizards don't have a real answer for direct physical damage until later ( both in offense and defence ). Later on...I'll have to wait and see. Wizards physical defence buffs are higher than the clerics from what I've read later on. Then there is the infamous Undine Strike.At least, that's what I've read while trolling around the wizard forums. Like I said my exp = not that great, and I don't know THAT much about pvp.
There aren't that many "high" level clerics of any kind on this server as of yet so we'll all have to see were it goes. I will note that, as many have said, at the higher levels the only real difference between FAC and FSC at 80-90+ is preference and play style. The FSC ( traditional ) will generally have less MAG so thier damage will be 1-2000pts lower if they go VIT route. Each will have enough sp to support all the spell trees.Mark 12:29-37
_WillFire_ 8x Combat Medic0 -
So far my cleric whips all other on my lvel except venos (ultimate solo character).
Simply put, if you are good, your char will be good b:victoryb:dirty0 -
So your saying that either FAC or Support they can both excel in both each others purposes? Seems reasonable, they both have great heals, great damage, it is more so that maybe one does just a bitty itty bit better in their role than the other. FAC does a little better in damage and Support does a little better in healing. Now for skills, if you have enough spirit in the end to upgrade all of them then they only thing to argue about is which one to upgrade the fastest, which ones to leave out, and which ones to buy at higher levels and upgrade them slower because their uses would be better at higher levels.
Am I correct or is this just a big fat paragraph full of misunderstanding. Cause to me I'm still new at this game and its still pretty natural to misunderstand so I'm ok with it.0 -
So your saying that either FAC or Support they can both excel in both each others purposes? Seems reasonable, they both have great heals, great damage, it is more so that maybe one does just a bitty itty bit better in their role than the other. FAC does a little better in damage and Support does a little better in healing. Now for skills, if you have enough spirit in the end to upgrade all of them then they only thing to argue about is which one to upgrade the fastest, which ones to leave out, and which ones to buy at higher levels and upgrade them slower because their uses would be better at higher levels.
Am I correct or is this just a big fat paragraph full of misunderstanding. Cause to me I'm still new at this game and its still pretty natural to misunderstand so I'm ok with it.
You're close. Neither of them can excel in each others "purpose", until later in the game. Clerics have limited skill points meaning that there's a pretty big difference between FSC and FAC in the begining and middle.
FAC are limited in their healing. They don't have a wide variety of healing spells at their disposal for unique situations. That being said, as a FAC you should have ironheart blessing maxed, which is the healing buff most used. Eearly, early on (at my lvl) other players might not even see a difference, and you will be well enough suited to heal for parties that need it.
Although, I would think the reason for a FAC is to solo, so I don't know how much partying you would be doing.
I don't know what the damage is for FAC's, but I'm sure it's more than the damage I do. the only attack spells I have are Plume Shot and Cyclone which are both maxed. I do about 800, with about 1000 for my crits. Maybe at this point I do similar damage to FAC because of the skills available, and I'm *almost* full int.
I don't know when you get other attack spells, because it doesn't really pertain to me, but soon FAC will be passing my damage capabilities, easy.
So you can heal as a FAC, and you can solo/attack as a FSC, but I wouldn't say they excel at it.0 -
Enoteca - Sanctuary wrote: »You're close. Neither of them can excel in each others "purpose", until later in the game. Clerics have limited skill points meaning that there's a pretty big difference between FSC and FAC in the begining and middle.
FAC are limited in their healing. They don't have a wide variety of healing spells at their disposal for unique situations. That being said, as a FAC you should have ironheart blessing maxed, which is the healing buff most used, so early, early on (at my lvl) other players might not even see a difference, and you will be well enough suited to heal for partied that need it.
Although, I would think the reason for a FAC is to solo, so I don't know how much partying you would be doing.
I don't know what the damage is for FAC's, but I'm sure it's more than the damage I do. the only attack spells I have are Plume Shot and Cyclone which are both maxed. I do about 800, with about 1000 for my crits. Maybe at this point I do similar damage to FAC because of the skills available, and I'm *almost* full int.
I don't know when you get other attack spells, because it doesn't really pertain to me, but soon FAC will be passing my damage capabilities, easy.
So you can heal as a FAC, and you can solo/attack as a FSC, but I wouldn't say they excel at it.
Hmmm...I heard someone say that in the end theres enough spirit to upgrade everyskill you have.0 -
Hmmm...I heard someone say that in the end theres enough spirit to upgrade everyskill you have.Enoteca - Sanctuary wrote: »You're close. Neither of them can excel in each others "purpose", until later in the game. Clerics have limited skill points meaning that there's a pretty big difference between FSC and FAC in the begining and middle._WillFire_ - Sanctuary wrote: »I will note that, as many have said, at the higher levels the only real difference between FAC and FSC at 80-90+ is preference and play style.
So endgame, around 80-90 you will be able to upgrade your skills. But before that, there is quite a big difference between FAC's and FSC's.0 -
Enoteca - Sanctuary wrote: »So endgame, around 80-90 you will be able to upgrade your skills. But before that, there is quite a big difference between FAC's and FSC's.
I see...k...thanks for the info. Anyway around that point then my paragraph will kick in...I think..0 -
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To me it all comes down to whether you want to be a solo player or whether you want to play in a guild. A pure magic cleric whether FS or FA will fail in TW (imo) because they are a glass cannon. Everyone targets clerics first and we die quick. at lvl 75+ as a pure magic FSC I got one to two shotted a lot while plume barrier was in cool down. I have since restated to light armor and last 3-6 shots. that is way worth it to me... To be fair soloing mobs now sucks as PvE dmg is way reduced, but as a TW based cleric going light armor or vit is very useful, I actually survive long enough to heal on the front lines.0
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Enoteca - Sanctuary wrote: »lol, that's about right.
Just out of curiosity, are you planning to become a FSC, FAC, or hybrid...or some other class?
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Kathar - Lost City wrote: »To me it all comes down to whether you want to be a solo player or whether you want to play in a guild. A pure magic cleric whether FS or FA will fail in TW (imo) because they are a glass cannon. Everyone targets clerics first and we die quick. at lvl 75+ as a pure magic FSC I got one to two shotted a lot while plume barrier was in cool down. I have since restated to light armor and last 3-6 shots. that is way worth it to me... To be fair soloing mobs now sucks as PvE dmg is way reduced, but as a TW based cleric going light armor or vit is very useful, I actually survive long enough to heal on the front lines.
Are you saying a robe cleric with added vit is a viable build?
because I was considering LA, but the dex and str requirements didn't really help the cleric from what I could see, so I went robe, with added vit.0 -
Look going LA or HA, will shorten your mana pool and till lv 70 youll waste mp and will be unable to do anything rightb:chuckleb:dirty0
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Kathar - Lost City wrote: »To me it all comes down to whether you want to be a solo player or whether you want to play in a guild. A pure magic cleric whether FS or FA will fail in TW (imo) because they are a glass cannon. Everyone targets clerics first and we die quick. at lvl 75+ as a pure magic FSC I got one to two shotted a lot while plume barrier was in cool down. I have since restated to light armor and last 3-6 shots. that is way worth it to me... To be fair soloing mobs now sucks as PvE dmg is way reduced, but as a TW based cleric going light armor or vit is very useful, I actually survive long enough to heal on the front lines.
double post >.>
But that means that you have no tactics in TW...
In 9D healers allways go full mag, and depend on others to do their job so they can do theirs.
And if you really cant do nothing with FAC or FSC, then something stinks here b:pleasedb:dirty0 -
Yes, full vit build is viable for TW, *IF* they have Pdef shards in their armor. Due to the way p def is calculated if you are really low a little extra can go a long way. Oh and don't forget you will get 120% extra p def on your EQ with full buffs. Shards make or break builds imo.0
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Nelae - Heavens Tear wrote: »Look going LA or HA, will shorten your mana pool and till lv 70 youll waste mp and will be unable to do anything rightb:chuckle
hmm... if you play in TW for a Major guild you will be REQUIRED to have a charm so you will NEVER run out of MP. Low mana pool is a non factor in this game for TW/PvP0 -
that having low mana for TW is fine as long as you have a charm.
that your build for TW is great if TW is the only thing you are going to do with your cleric.
I, on the other hand, do TW but also do other things as well. I end up the healer for all sorts of parties from TT to FB's to quests.
I deal damage in between healing. Stack a few IH and shoot a couple shots, rinse, repeat. But, I can also survive quite well on my own.
My build is 3dex 5vit 43-45 str and the rest in magic. I can hit hard but i can only survive 1-3 hits depending on the mob I am against. So I put HP in every stone socket I can. Now I can survive 2-5 hits depending on what I am fighting. and generally they are dead long before they get that many shots at me.
So for me, I have the best of both worlds. Healer when needed and attack cleric when I need to be. 0
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