The argument for Attack Clerics

Metraze - Sanctuary
Metraze - Sanctuary Posts: 139 Arc User
edited December 2008 in Cleric
OK, a lot of FAC bashing (and defending) going on lately ... I'm not here to talk about FAC's. The one thing I find kind of annoying in all these threads is that despite the fact that it's supposedly about the FAC build, it seems to be more about Attack Cleric's in general ...

The difference between Attack Cleric and Support Cleric is simply what they focus on - Attack Cleric is DD first, healer second. Support Cleric is healer first, DD second. Early on that leads to a difference in skills (due to lack of SP), but that difference disappears later on.

An Attack cleric can certainly have support skills, VIT, even Light Armour ... so those arguments don't apply here.

Now, the real question is: which would you rather have in a squad - Attack Cleric or say Wizard?

I know ... a Wizard can do more damage right? (True or not, I don't know, don't care - but for the sake of argument assume it's true). But can they heal or res? I know they do have a heal spell, but I've also heard that it takes too long to cast to be useful in combat. Certainly they can't res.

Instead of trying to compare an Attack Cleric with a Wizard or Support Cleric, think of them as a cross between the two ... dealing decent damage while able to backup your Support Cleric.

I know ... you'd still prefer another Support Cleric. Problem is, a player that chooses an Attack Cleric probably isn't interested in being purely Support ... and I understand there's a shortage of Support Clerics. So that likely isn't a realistic option. Attack Cleric's are a way to make the class (for a lot of players) more fun, and can provide you with some backup healers to help fill the void of Support Clerics.

And actually IMO (assuming you already have a Support Cleric in a squad) I'd think that an Attack Cleric is going to be more useful than a second Support Cleric ... do you really need two full-time healers? Having a backup in case the Support Cleric runs into trouble would seem to be enough. (No, I don't have enough experience to know for sure ... just putting it out there for consideration). And I'm talking strictly squads here, not TW.

I do agree that an Attack Cleric needs to be a team player if they want to be part of team (same as any other player). That certainly means leveling support skills (revive in particular) when they can afford it ... and IMO it means always acting as a backup healer. Otherwise you're not using the class to it's full potential ... but their pimary focus is still dealing damage.

That's how I see it anyway ... feel free to argue for/against, just please don't turn it into another FAC thread ...
Post edited by Metraze - Sanctuary on

Comments

  • SafireSpirit - Heavens Tear
    SafireSpirit - Heavens Tear Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    I've been playing for almost 2weeks, and how I see it, is no one really needs Wizards in teams. They usually go for Support Clerics due to money. They rather have a healer than buy pots, and why have a Wizard in group?? When either they wanna kill everything, or they are one.

    This is my opinion.

    Btw, FAC??
  • Ledinor - Lost City
    Ledinor - Lost City Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    SafireSpirit - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Btw, FAC??
    Full Attack Cleric
  • lacedcandy
    lacedcandy Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    FAC = Earthquake!!!
    Yes, in comparison, no one needs a wiz if we are around...
  • Metraze - Sanctuary
    Metraze - Sanctuary Posts: 139 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    SafireSpirit - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I've been playing for almost 2weeks, and how I see it, is no one really needs Wizards in teams. They usually go for Support Clerics due to money. They rather have a healer than buy pots, and why have a Wizard in group??
    First off, I don't see that your comment has anything to do with Attack Clerics ... you're only talking Wizard vs Support Cleric. Aside from that ... a full squad is 6 players ... 5 Support Cleric's and you doesn't make a very good squad! You're going to need/want a few DD's in there ... and a Tank ... and yes, a Support Cleric. The question is simply whether it's beneficial for one of those DD's to be an Attack Cleric.
    lacedcandy wrote: »
    FAC = Earthquake!!!
    Yes, in comparison, no one needs a wiz if we are around...
    As I said I'm not talking about FAC's - plenty of threads around for that already.
  • Dirik - Sanctuary
    Dirik - Sanctuary Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    i agree wit u. the part about the wizard i suppose it true i mean why hav wizards wen u can hav us who can debuff, buff, heal, and attack.
  • Metraze - Sanctuary
    Metraze - Sanctuary Posts: 139 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    Dirik - Sanctuary wrote: »
    i agree wit u. the part about the wizard i suppose it true i mean why hav wizards wen u can hav us who can debuff, buff, heal, and attack.
    Oh, I wouldn't go that far ... I'm not saying replace all wizards in a squad with AC's ... just one.

    I'm still going with the assumption that a Wizard (or Archer) is better for DD - just that an AC has it's place.

    No, a Wizard can't effectively heal in combat - but how many healers do you need? You really want two, so that there's a backup. Possibly could go with three ... but don't see a need for any more.

    As for buffs, you only need one for that. For debuffs, again two that can debuff is enough.

    Note that (high level) Wizards do have a debuff now ... but unlike the Cleric's debuff (which benefits everyone), it only benefits Wizards (only reduces Fire/Water/Earth resistance).
  • Deadbone - Lost City
    Deadbone - Lost City Posts: 149 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    Metraze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    An Attack cleric can certainly have support skills, VIT, even Light Armour ... so those arguments don't apply here.

    stopped reading there, ure most likely wrong with everything u said if u even think Light Armor is a viable Cleric build
  • Metraze - Sanctuary
    Metraze - Sanctuary Posts: 139 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    Deadbone - Lost City wrote: »
    stopped reading there, ure most likely wrong with everything u said if u even think Light Armor is a viable Cleric build
    Oh, I didn't say viable, just possible :P The point was simply that Attack Cleric just means you're focused on attack skills, and doesn't imply any particular build. While I wouldn't recommend Light Armour, I know some players do go with that ... and I wouldn't doubt there's a Light Armour Attack Cleric out there somewhere.

    The real point is that regardless of which build you prefer or think best (I know that's VIT build in your case), you can take the build and play it as an Attack Cleric. So arguments about particular builds are irrelevant.
  • Keyne - Heavens Tear
    Keyne - Heavens Tear Posts: 202 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    A FAC is geared toward a certain build, Pure Mag for maximum damage. That is why they are called Glass Cannons. They hit hard and die quick. Any other build would be considered a Hybrid or Light Armor build. Yes you can use a hybrid to attack, but you are not a true FAC.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Metraze - Sanctuary
    Metraze - Sanctuary Posts: 139 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    Keyne - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    A FAC is geared toward a certain build, Pure Mag for maximum damage. That is why they are called Glass Cannons. They hit hard and die quick. Any other build would be considered a Hybrid or Light Armor build. Yes you can use a hybrid to attack, but you are not a true FAC.
    Yes, if you want to be a FAC that implies a Full MAG build ... but as I said, this thread isn't about FAC's ... it's about AC's in general.
  • trevtimusprime
    trevtimusprime Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    Oh god, attack cleric is a terrible terrible idea...


    You can't purify or heal properly

    You do considerably less dmg than a mage once you hit the 6x's

    Honestly aside from sleep what good is a fac anyhow?


    Even then a REAL Cleric with sleep is leaps and bounds more useful

    You want to be a dps class? ROLL WIZZARD
    CB-Phase 1-4
    I am Snorlax and I will block your path.


    DestroyTokyo- Voted best WereBeast on PWI Lost City server <3
  • Metraze - Sanctuary
    Metraze - Sanctuary Posts: 139 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    trevtimusprime wrote: »
    You want to be a dps class? ROLL WIZZARD
    I didn't roll an Attack Cleric to get the best dps ... I rolled it because it's fun and versatile.

    As for the rest of your post ... did you even read my first post?
    trevtimusprime wrote: »
    You can't purify or heal properly
    Metraze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Early on that leads to a difference in skills (due to lack of SP), but that difference disappears later on.

    trevtimusprime wrote: »
    You do considerably less dmg than a mage once you hit the 6x's
    Metraze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I know ... a Wizard can do more damage right? (True or not, I don't know, don't care - but for the sake of argument assume it's true). But can they heal or res? I know they do have a heal spell, but I've also heard that it takes too long to cast to be useful in combat. Certainly they can't res.

    trevtimusprime wrote: »
    Honestly aside from sleep what good is a fac anyhow?
    Metraze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    OK, a lot of FAC bashing (and defending) going on lately ... I'm not here to talk about FAC's

    trevtimusprime wrote: »
    Even then a REAL Cleric with sleep is leaps and bounds more useful
    Metraze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I know ... you'd still prefer another Support Cleric. Problem is, a player that chooses an Attack Cleric probably isn't interested in being purely Support ... and I understand there's a shortage of Support Clerics. So that likely isn't a realistic option.

    Honestly, this whole thread seems to be nothing but people commenting on FAC's/builds and me trying to remind them that it's not what this thread is about ... so I'm just going to stop responding unless it actually has to do with my first post.
  • Kusaku - Lost City
    Kusaku - Lost City Posts: 111 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    Personally i have teamed up with a large variaty of clerics and its normally the ones who dont listen and charge who cause problems not there builds

    i can see were everyone is coming from but personally in the case of lost city at leaste u try to get all the help u can whatever build u are ^^
    So for my bad spelling ^^
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  • drevik
    drevik Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    the problem ur missing is the fact that most people consider an attack cleric to be a FAC and anything else not to be an attack cleric.
    Personally i have a near FAC build with a tiny bit on dex nd vit, mostly due to be own ineptness at lower levels, but i do make sure my buffs are leveled. Because i do like to DD but also to support occasionally depends how i feel.
  • Chrysanthos - Heavens Tear
    Chrysanthos - Heavens Tear Posts: 39 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    "Originally Posted by trevtimusprime
    You want to be a dps class? ROLL WIZZARD"

    Why? Wizards suck compared to FACs. They have absoloutley rubbish casting times (ruins the DD capability) - a FAC could KO a wizard in the time it takes to cast a spell (Chromatic Seal > Plume Shot > Plume Shot). They have no good heals. They have buffs, but they aren't anywhere near as good as a Clerics. And more...

    To sum it up, FAC > Wizard
  • DestroyTokyo - Lost City
    DestroyTokyo - Lost City Posts: 501 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    Chrysanthos - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    "Originally Posted by trevtimusprime
    You want to be a dps class? ROLL WIZZARD"

    Why? Wizards suck compared to FACs. They have absoloutley rubbish casting times (ruins the DD capability) - a FAC could KO a wizard in the time it takes to cast a spell (Chromatic Seal > Plume Shot > Plume Shot). They have no good heals. They have buffs, but they aren't anywhere near as good as a Clerics. And more...

    To sum it up, FAC > Wizard

    Ok my first question is this.... Have you ever played Perfect World?... Because from the above statement it would seem to me you're either new or you're a complete imbecile.

    Lol rubbish casting times? Maybe on The ulti skills **** rock, dragon and air strike. With earth barrier up a cleric against a similar level mage Plume shot isn't going to do jack compared to a mage skill on you.

    BTW you're assuming the mage didn't already seal you lawl. You can't throw out perfect circumstances for a cleric win.


    Blade Tempest ala Air Strike would crush you into the ground like there is no tomorrow. Let alone if they opposing mage has Undine Strike.

    One shot every time.

    Thank you and goodnight with your rubbish fac excuses lol.


    Post Script You're a on a bloody PVE Server LOL! Don't talk about pvp please go kill some mabs or something Carebear
    9x WB
    Voted "Best WB on Lost City Server" b:victory
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • tankhunter
    tankhunter Posts: 120 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    trevtimusprime wrote: »
    Oh god, attack cleric is a terrible terrible idea...

    You can't purify or heal properly

    You do considerably less dmg than a mage once you hit the 6x's

    Honestly aside from sleep what good is a fac anyhow?

    Even then a REAL Cleric with sleep is leaps and bounds more useful

    You want to be a dps class? ROLL WIZZARD

    1) For PvE purposes and to the same extent PvP purposes Ironheart Blessing is by far the best heal in the game. A FAC and FSC will both have the same level Ironheart at the same time, its that required. So a FAC while being squishier, will also actually heal more. The FAC will also still have a good level of purify, so that they can remove monster self buffs in addition to their support and backup role.

    2) 6x is around the end of the mid-game and is the start of the late game, where Wizards come into their own. FACs get the cleric through the hellish early and mid game, where they can then mass level up support skills they normally would not get (Aoe Heal, AoE Buffs, Red/Blue bubble) in the late game where they are needed.

    3) FACs operate as support DDs and backup healers. The major difference between FAC and FSC is the lack of the AoE heal, the AoE buff spells, and the Red/Blue bubble zhen spells. Which the single target buffs FACs will still have and the FAC can always spam Ironheart.

    4) A "real" cleric is not created till 9x, when they have ALL of their skills all maxed out. Which 9x happens to be end game.
  • Zanko - Lost City
    Zanko - Lost City Posts: 120 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    Cant you be both endgame?
    So why does it matter just play what fits your style.

    Zanko~

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