For all those involved in FAC vs. FSC arguments
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thewordlesssignature
Posts: 45 Arc User
Everyone that has been arguing here? Wonderful. I'll get to the point.
For whoever it was that was kicking ppl out of their guild for being FAC, fine. Its fine that you think that FAC's aren't for your guild. As guild leader, that is your prerogative to make decisions for the welfare of your guild. However, saying that all FAC's are horrible is out of the question. As with everything in life, there is are pro's and con's for every class. If you give a con, give a pro. Don't say any **** about there not being a pro side, because there always is.
With that said, this is just a game. Why are people so intent of making their point clear about FAC's being useless or better than FSC's? Of course, there are arguments that involve the survival and success of their squads/ guilds and there are arguments that appeal to non conformists belief and so forth, but let's all remember what are doing, yes?
If someone enjoys playing a FAC then that's wonderful. Like every class, they'll probably run into some trouble and more than likely, more trouble than other classes, but who are you to say that they can't play an FAC if they enjoy what they are doing?
For whoever is planning on being a FAC, understand that it will be a tough role: some people won't have you in a guild and you'll have a hard time in guild wars and the like. So, FAC's, please don't whine. People have reasons for not wanting you, so deal with it and move on. You'll find some people to support you eventually, you just have to keep at it.
And for people who do not support FAC's, just don't bash. Its fine that you don't want to be an FAC or whatever, but be respectful and courteous when giving reasons why you don't want FAC's near you.
Let's stop these arguments and just play the game, shall we?
jaa,
sano
How about everyone just STFU and play what they want to play?
For whoever it was that was kicking ppl out of their guild for being FAC, fine. Its fine that you think that FAC's aren't for your guild. As guild leader, that is your prerogative to make decisions for the welfare of your guild. However, saying that all FAC's are horrible is out of the question. As with everything in life, there is are pro's and con's for every class. If you give a con, give a pro. Don't say any **** about there not being a pro side, because there always is.
With that said, this is just a game. Why are people so intent of making their point clear about FAC's being useless or better than FSC's? Of course, there are arguments that involve the survival and success of their squads/ guilds and there are arguments that appeal to non conformists belief and so forth, but let's all remember what are doing, yes?
We are playing a game. Games are supposed to be FUN.
If someone enjoys playing a FAC then that's wonderful. Like every class, they'll probably run into some trouble and more than likely, more trouble than other classes, but who are you to say that they can't play an FAC if they enjoy what they are doing?
For whoever is planning on being a FAC, understand that it will be a tough role: some people won't have you in a guild and you'll have a hard time in guild wars and the like. So, FAC's, please don't whine. People have reasons for not wanting you, so deal with it and move on. You'll find some people to support you eventually, you just have to keep at it.
And for people who do not support FAC's, just don't bash. Its fine that you don't want to be an FAC or whatever, but be respectful and courteous when giving reasons why you don't want FAC's near you.
Let's stop these arguments and just play the game, shall we?
jaa,
sano
Post edited by thewordlesssignature on
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if you really wanted to stop the arguments, you shouldn't have posted this. It'll probably just bring on more arguments...I figured I should do something with my sig, so I made this for fun. My very first (poorly made) animation. b:victory
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
As for why Luffy is murdering Naruto, I have no idea either, but it looks cool.b:laugh0 -
This is what it boils down to. If someone really wants to make more arguments after, then fine. Apparently, people forgot what we are doing: playing a game.
Perhaps this thread will create more arguments, but it also has the same chance of preventing more arguments. Whoever makes more arguments after this are the people who are obsessed and are content with making fools out of themselves.
jaa,
sano0 -
The problem is that some people are playing FAC on the misguided assumption that it is going to kick all kinds of *** in the later levels, and Pandora, Deadbone, Envy and others experienced in high level PVP was giving a fair warning that it's not the case. Granted, Pandora could have used less colourful language and a softer approach, but he spoke the truth and had the right intentions.
As long as you are fully informed of the kind of a build FAC is (hint: it's not all hyped to be) I couldn't care less.
Edit: I've noticed, however, that it was the FAC defenders who ranted on with incoherent English while the naysayers had logical explanations. Take that however you will.0 -
Depends upon how well you can read the chicken scratchings of some of the people who bashed the FAC build. On both sides of the conflict was there people who ranted on with incoherent english and others with logical explanations.
Also, you need to consider where this "hype" suddenly came from. At the time of the writing of the FAC guide it was the opinion of one person, who was a rarity among clerics at the time. All is quiet in the cleric section and suddenly in a instance run Deadbones is allegedly killed by boss aggro and the only other cleric in the party, who had forewarned the build as it seemed but was not taken serious, only had level 1 revive. So Pandora goes and kicks out all the FACs in the guild, then starts the flamewar with a derogatory bash post, despite whatever warning or good intentions was truely meant.
As this flamewar starts building, there is this alleged hype and assumptions suddenly appearing out of thin air just about.
You get a good number of people bashing the FAC build, saying it is pointless in all areas especially in PvP, and you get others saying essentially that it is a flexible build (That it can deal good damage and heal effectively) that can contend and is viable. The place just devolves into a unchecked warzone and the flamewar is going in the direction of a firestorm.
Pandora could have simply stated that the FACs in RageQuit have been kicked out because they do not fullfill the needs of the guild and are not as effective in PvP as they thought they would be. Then advise that for high level PvP/TW clerics looking to enter that area should create support clerics which are in high demand.
It would have been a simple: Our guild, and other guilds, need FSCs, and slots have been freed up in our guild for them. We do not need FACs, as they are inefficient for our tactics. Instead of a flamewar generating post.
Course, for some it probably could have been fun, and I would not doubt if some of the people who posted just trolled to get the flames higher.0 -
Edit: I've noticed, however, that it was the FAC defenders who ranted on with incoherent English while the naysayers had logical explanations. Take that however you will.
I find that a bit backwards, actually...maybe I should read more posts.I figured I should do something with my sig, so I made this for fun. My very first (poorly made) animation. b:victory
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
As for why Luffy is murdering Naruto, I have no idea either, but it looks cool.b:laugh0 -
Enough. Arguments on both sides have strong and weak points.
It's up to whoever is playing whether they want to play as an FAC or not. FAC's, just like every class, has it's strong and weak points. The "hype" that is talked about is merely praise from extremists who are happy with how they are playing, or is criticism from other extremists who believe differently.
The point is, there IS no "hype". FAC is just an optional class. Just as Perfect World is just a game.
The argument has been blown out of proportion because some people do not have tact, and other people enjoy watching arguments build because they aren't involved.
Play what you will, but be careful with what you say. Like in the rules for the forums: if you think that whatever you are writing is an insult, then don't write it. Also the rules say to be courteous and respectful, which some people seem to have forgotten regarding this issue.
There are pros and cons to being an FAC, and numerous threads have explained rather well what they are. It's up to you, the player, whether you want to take that chance amidst the pros and cons and play an FAC.
jaa,
sano0 -
thewordlesssignature wrote: »
There are pros and cons to being an FAC, and numerous threads have explained rather well what they are. It's up to you, the player, whether you want to take that chance amidst the pros and cons and play an FAC.
Pros - you can solo til 60 then quit (or not, I remember always having a useful EP at dwans. So I guess you can solo til 50 and quit)
Cons - useless in partys, cant help farm your 60hh, suck in PK, suck in all around grinding, suck at the game.0 -
Do not use profanity. Do not think that adding a trio of periods makes profanity 'okay'. Be civil and courteous to other players.
It doesn't matter how wrong or misguided X viewpoint is; a list consisting of insults does not make a good argument nor does it make you look good.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Um, am I the only one who notices that the threads lately are criticizing both FS and FAC mostly based off of PVP? PVP is NOT the only thing in this game..you don't pvp to level up..
IMO - let them play how they want to play, if 1 is better than the other, then too bad, you don't have to pull arguements out your rear end just because it isn't how YOU want them to be. Clerics aren't only heal slaves.
If you're going to argue about how FAC "sucks" in PVP, then say that about pvp, don't bring pve into it, because you're only making yourself look like an idiot for trying to morph a class into being 1 simple thing.
And as for the full mag dies in 1-2 hits, that is not true, at all..maybe in PVP, but certainly not in pve, which you all seem to point to for it. Clerics have healing capabilities for a reason, use them wisely, or don't have them at all (In a sense of healing at the right time before you get killed, not in the sense of saying clerics should only heal...)0 -
LadyTwilight - Sanctuary wrote: »Um, am I the only one who notices that the threads lately are criticizing both FS and FAC mostly based off of PVP? PVP is NOT the only thing in this game..you don't pvp to level up..
IMO - let them play how they want to play, if 1 is better than the other, then too bad, you don't have to pull arguements out your rear end just because it isn't how YOU want them to be. Clerics aren't only heal slaves.
If you're going to argue about how FAC "sucks" in PVP, then say that about pvp, don't bring pve into it, because you're only making yourself look like an idiot for trying to morph a class into being 1 simple thing.
And as for the full mag dies in 1-2 hits, that is not true, at all..maybe in PVP, but certainly not in pve, which you all seem to point to for it. Clerics have healing capabilities for a reason, use them wisely, or don't have them at all (In a sense of healing at the right time before you get killed, not in the sense of saying clerics should only heal...)
You're not the only one, trust me; the thing is, other people, myself included IIRC (or maybe I just thought about it?), HAVE mentioned that PvP =/= PvE but tend to just be ignored and the arguments continue like nothing happened.
I agree completely with you and the others who keep saying that this game is supposed to be fun and everyone can play how they want to but the extremes, as with almost any discussion, seem to be louder; I no longer know this could be handled if I ever did.0 -
So, I'm guessing you have no idea what HH is?LadyTwilight - Sanctuary wrote: »Um, am I the only one who notices that the threads lately are criticizing both FS and FAC mostly based off of PVP? PVP is NOT the only thing in this game..you don't pvp to level up..
IMO - let them play how they want to play, if 1 is better than the other, then too bad, you don't have to pull arguements out your rear end just because it isn't how YOU want them to be. Clerics aren't only heal slaves.
If you're going to argue about how FAC "sucks" in PVP, then say that about pvp, don't bring pve into it, because you're only making yourself look like an idiot for trying to morph a class into being 1 simple thing.
And as for the full mag dies in 1-2 hits, that is not true, at all..maybe in PVP, but certainly not in pve, which you all seem to point to for it. Clerics have healing capabilities for a reason, use them wisely, or don't have them at all (In a sense of healing at the right time before you get killed, not in the sense of saying clerics should only heal...)
gg
EDIT: can you guys PLEAAAAAAAAAAAAAASE STOP POSTING if you dont know what you're talking about / don't know anything about the game.0 -
Envy - Lost City wrote: »Pros - you can solo til 60 then quit (or not, I remember always having a useful EP at dwans. So I guess you can solo til 50 and quit)
Cons - useless in partys, cant help farm your 60hh, suck in PK, suck in all around grinding, suck at the game.bobzilla21 wrote: »if you really wanted to stop the arguments, you shouldn't have posted this. It'll probably just bring on more arguments...LadyTwilight - Sanctuary wrote: »Um, am I the only one who notices that the threads lately are criticizing both FS and FAC mostly based off of PVP? PVP is NOT the only thing in this game..you don't pvp to level up..
IMO - let them play how they want to play, if 1 is better than the other, then too bad, you don't have to pull arguements out your rear end just because it isn't how YOU want them to be. Clerics aren't only heal slaves.
If you're going to argue about how FAC "sucks" in PVP, then say that about pvp, don't bring pve into it, because you're only making yourself look like an idiot for trying to morph a class into being 1 simple thing.
And as for the full mag dies in 1-2 hits, that is not true, at all..maybe in PVP, but certainly not in pve, which you all seem to point to for it. Clerics have healing capabilities for a reason, use them wisely, or don't have them at all (In a sense of healing at the right time before you get killed, not in the sense of saying clerics should only heal...)
Woohoo! My prediction came true! I win! MUHAHAHAHA! b:victoryI figured I should do something with my sig, so I made this for fun. My very first (poorly made) animation. b:victory
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
As for why Luffy is murdering Naruto, I have no idea either, but it looks cool.b:laugh0 -
Maybe it's you who should just shut up. Your continued attempts at telling people how they MUST play their characters is pathetic and lame. People will play their characters as they see fit, and tbph, nobody gives a flip about what you think, concerning it.Envy - Lost City wrote: »So, I'm guessing you have no idea what HH is?
gg
EDIT: can you guys PLEAAAAAAAAAAAAAASE STOP POSTING if you dont know what you're talking about / don't know anything about the game.
So do yourself and everyone else a favor, and stop trying to force people into your narrow little view of what a cleric is, and let them play the game the way they want to.
I don't get where you or anyone else seems to think they have the right to tell.. no... DEMAND that clerics play as you deem they should. Get over yourself. It is a GAME i.e. supposed to be played for PERSONAL enjoyment, not for someone who has decided that their way is the only way so therefore everyone needs to do as they say because their saying it.
just SHUT THE **** UP already and go play the game as you want to play it and leave everyone else to do the same.
Saitada0 -
Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »Maybe it's you who should just shut up. Your continued attempts at telling people how they MUST play their characters is pathetic and lame. People will play their characters as they see fit, and tbph, nobody gives a flip about what you think, concerning it.
So do yourself and everyone else a favor, and stop trying to force people into your narrow little view of what a cleric is, and let them play the game the way they want to.
I don't get where you or anyone else seems to think they have the right to tell.. no... DEMAND that clerics play as you deem they should. Get over yourself. It is a GAME i.e. supposed to be played for PERSONAL enjoyment, not for someone who has decided that their way is the only way so therefore everyone needs to do as they say because their saying it.
just SHUT THE **** UP already and go play the game as you want to play it and leave everyone else to do the same.
Saitada
Not reading your whole post.
You obviously care if you're responding.
You dont HAVE to play EPs as I would, in fact I have never said what build to use.
You do need to come to terms with that FAC suck. Plain and simple, you can gain 30 levels so you can still be 2 behind me then talk.
Nobody my level argues with me. The high leveled, experienced players of the game. Sorry to break it to you there thoughts on builds count for more than yours, sorry if you're going to cry about it in your diary later tonight, it's just true.
You can just STFU and quit trying to misguide noobs you ignorant ****.0 -
ok people, this is seriously going way way too far b:surrender
now this whole battle started after pandora opened the thread about the "FAC warning" now this person along with other people on his/her side were just stating a well backed up opinion from past preferences and overall experience with gameplay on a certain form of a profession they think isn't good. These people make some good points and i respect it. Some people weren't able to swallow their pride and respect their opinion and move on. Instead they had to "fight back" as if it was some type of battle which is ridiculous. They can't MAKE you change your opinion, its yours and yours alone. They just want to give a warning on a form of a cleric they don't like/enjoy get over it. Youre just as bad as you think they are for gunning down their opinion....think about it and get over it..this thread should get closed like the other....This is useless trash this fight is...get on with your lives and if your an FAC and enjoy it go ahead respect your opinion and others...if your not ditto to you b:bye[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
~sig by Saitada, a total badass b:laugh0 -
maybe YOU should read a bit more carefully. I have never supported either side, I have simply stated repeatedly that people have the right to choose how they play, and you have no right to try and stop them from doing so.Envy - Lost City wrote: »Not reading your whole post.
You obviously care if you're responding.
You dont HAVE to play EPs as I would, in fact I have never said what build to use.
You do need to come to terms with that FAC suck. Plain and simple, you can gain 30 levels so you can still be 2 behind me then talk.
Nobody my level argues with me. The high leveled, experienced players of the game. Sorry to break it to you there thoughts on builds count for more than yours, sorry if you're going to cry about it in your diary later tonight, it's just true.
You can just STFU and quit trying to misguide noobs you ignorant ****.
The problem here is yours. Your unable to realize this is just a GAME where people come to have fun as they see fit. I don't care either way if someone rolls a FaC or an FsC. That is their choice. I only care if their having fun or not. If their having fun, that is ALL that matters, which is what you seem to have forgotten with your repeated diatribes against FaC's.
Your attempt at a flame was also pathetic. When you have more than one hair between your legs, and are more adept at flaming, you can try to flame me. You'll still fail at it, but you can attempt to do so anyway.
Your LEVEL doesn't mean squat if you still think that because your X level your therefore god and your word must be obeyed w/o question or thought.
I have more gaming experience than this game, I've been playing Online games since BBS's were "the" thing to be a part of and a 286 processor was top of the line (yes I am THAT old).
Don't EVER consider a persons character level as a measure of their gaming experience. Because in many cases you would be dead on wrong.
So, again. Let me state this. People play a particular class and build because they want to play it that way. Neither you, or anyone else has the right to badger them, threaten them, disrespect them or attempt to tell them they can't play as they see fit to play. Doing so shows nothing but your own exaggerated sense of self importance and is an epic fail.
I'm sure you won't be able to understand this, because your grasp of my previous arguments was weak at best, but perhaps in a few years when you grow up, you'll be better equipped to handle logical discussions and arguments w/o failing as miserably as you do now.
Have a nice day...
Saitada0 -
Envy - Lost City wrote: »Cons - useless in partys, cant help farm your 60hh, suck in PK, suck in all around grinding, suck at the game.
Thank you for giving the pros and cons. The only thing I have an issue is your line of 'suck at the game'. If FAC's sucked at the game, there wouldn't be any pros. So, Envy, kindly mind the fact that FAC's do not completely "suck".
Now from what I understand, Envy and Pandora are from guilds that "specialize" in PVP. So I'll give you due consideration about your opinion about FAC's and PVP. However, I do not see how you could know about FAC's and PVE if you've never created an FAC yourself.
Lines such as yours, Envy, is why this argument is going too far. Be respectful of both sides, and don't just try to glaze over the pros without being sincere.
jaa,
sano0 -
bobzilla21 wrote: »Woohoo! My prediction came true! I win! MUHAHAHAHA! b:victory
Your prediction may have come true, but it just proves my point as well: whoever replies against what I have written is just proof that the person is content with being a fool. By now, we all know who are the ones that are trying to keep this argument burning. All what they are doing is giving themselves a bad reputation among other players. Maybe not all players, but some.
There have been interesting points from other people about FAC's and FSC's, but it ultimately relies on this: who do you, the player, want to play as?
No one else can tell you that. You choose who you will be. You may not know all the answers about being whatever class you've chosen, but if you are willing to stick with it, there are people that can give you advice. Whether you choose to take the advice or not is also up to you. And what more, it's still just a game. If you try being a FAC and you don't like it, then scrap it if you want. But don't scrap your FAC just because someone tells you to. Make the decision for yourself.
And as Saitada has explained so clearly, levels do not give you the power to tell other people how to play the characters they have chosen. You can give advice (using tact and being respectful), but you can not say anything about what you do not know.
So Envy, like I've said. Your opinion regarding FAC's and PVP are justified, but explain how your opinion regarding FAC's and PVE should be listened to? I've heard nothing about you creating your own FAC and testing it.
I see that there are still people that remember that we are playing a game- then perhaps this thread wasn't a waste. Everyone should remember that we are playing a game, and there is also a life outside of the game.
With that, enjoy playing.
jaa,
sano0 -
I post again here. I totally hate the way pandoras is explaining HIS AND ONLY HIS opinions and others players, even clerics.
Lets talk about something.
Im FSC, with a lot of VIT in the beginning. I had to re stat at lvl 50 bcs my dmg was awful and couldnt kill mobs, even wearing good equip, so all to mag to have a least some dmg.
So my opinion? Well... how can Envy talk about how FSC are better if she was FAC for all her first 70 lvls! Did she ever play a FSC being lower than 70? No.... did Pandora did it? either.... They ONLY talk about PvP which leaves a lot of PVE content outside and that is: levelling
So... this is my own experience being a FSC, taking as soon as I could res lvls to help others.
Literally. My dmg, my lack of attacking spells was so huge that killing a mob was a pain. Now im high enough that it does not matter, but previous was lvl was hard, ultin I re stated.
So before ppl talking TRY AT LEAST a FSC...
You can be true about FAC, totally, but you didnt ever play one, so your nice high lvl cleric doesnt count, since you didnt play one (at least FSC), actually you lvleed as a FAC, so wheres the PVE content there? THE ONE THAT MAKE YOU LVL actually... no where... youre only talking about pvp, which is yes, PART OF THE GAME, but not all.
And lets be serious, to reach lvl 70 you have to play a lot! Average players or weekend players wont ever reach that lvl in many months, unless they zen a lot or scroll xp and you know it.
So most of the time the build FAC will work, then you can start levelling others skill, yes, you wont be the best FSC, but you first have to reach lvl 70.
And all of your talks onyl refers to PVP content, yes your guild cares about that only, but MAKE CLEAR WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, and pls be polite. Your lack of education is so big that makes me think that you grown up among animals, which I have to say can be more respectful than you (and just read post to notice whom Im talking about)0 -
Unfortunately PW forums are living up to what I noticed the first thing when I started reading posts in here: people somehow believe playing a long time gifted them with the ability to do math and reason beyond their actual capabilities. Starting with people who believed 1% crit means 2% extra average damage, failing in both common sense and math at the same time, and other incompetence.
It would be one thing if the FAC detractors just did a generic hate against the build for TW, but they had to go and make ignorant postings about FACs in TT/HH, soloing, and many other aspects that are just flat out wrong.
For reference, look at my avatar.
I have no idea where this over 60/70 it is impossible to solo junk is coming from, but it is very evident that they have over-stepped the boundaries of what they actually know. I was soloing Alucard's Minions (68) right next to Altars of Disbelief when I was lvl 63. And that is where they are thickest and spawn fast. Didn't have problems being full magic. Around lvl 70 is when I was AoE soloing orchid petali(72). I was killing 18 of the suckers every 2-3 minutes. Major drops and more xp gain than anyone else.
Then I started grinding Mothran when the xp drop happened for petali so that the lvl 80 mobs finally gave more xp per hour. I was able to solo them and only be hit once by 74th lvl. Once I out-leved them I moved on to Ultra fish (88) at 82nd lvl. Solo grinded them and got some good ginseng to sell since no one else was able to grind them yet.
For TT I duoed for my weapon with a veno, and went back for soloing to make money. Soloed 1-2 in my upper 60s no problem, and much faster and cheaper than most other classes. Do squad to help people out and manage just fine in there. Actually part of the first group to take down wurlord in squad mode on sanctuary server. So the TT/HH inability is also disproved.
Damage-wise you must be talking about pvp only, as us clerics have to watch our aggro to prevent taking it away from the tank and archers. All of which are 80+. Because if you're not, then you either have some crappy FACs or are just making things up. I've met some so-called FACs who didn't have as many attack skills maxed as I did at their level, and I had Res at lvl 9, maxed buffs, and maxed ironheart. So either they aren't good FACs, or they are just dirt poor.
In PvP, you also run into another logical fallacy. You guys don't seem to get a very simple fact; Sanctuary is still a new server. We do not have as high a level average. Which means we don't have to have high vit to survive, when the level difference is enough to keep us alive. High Vit on a pvp server is a must, since you need to worry about getting ganked at any time and need to be able to survive to get away, hit your pots, or just attack back. On sanctuary, we choose to pvp either by hitting the flag or entering open PvP areas. So we can have charms going, Apoth pots, health pots, rejuv potions, etc. all set up to make us prepared for the game.
A build should not be set to one thing, it should be tailored to the environment. Currently, I can deal 2.2k avg dmg physical aoe in one hit with my Razor Feathers against robed targets. That is an instant hit the way the builds are currently set up with build and level factored in. Unless I'm **** around, I won't be taken out easily, if at all. So the extra vit would just drag my dmg down and add nothing to my survivability.
You have to remember, we had people who came over from other servers starting this game. Many have left the game, or went back to another server. Even still, the people leveling up will hit the hard patch of 60 and 70 and give up when grinding gets too much. They won't have the ease of leveling available to FACs in this area, and support clerics will be doing fbs over and over to trail behind FACs at a decent rate at this time. Can't tell you how often in faction chat the support clerics would complain how hard a quest was that my full mag soloed in minutes. Or how often I would gain 2 lvls before another person would gain even 1, while we were both on at the same time leveling.
Another failure is the assumption of an even leveled FAC and support cleric. Guess what, not gonna happen. The FAC will always be higher if they spend time grinding, than a support cleric. And once you add in AoE on poison mobs, you're talking a difference of 70th FAC to a 60th support. So talking of same levels for comparison is wrong. FAC will out-level a support cleric. And in AoE areas, a FAC will be out-leveling other classes as well. Normally it will just be a bit of out-leveling.0 -
Thank you Sylvae for your account! So, we have a bit of proof regarding the pro side of the argument for FAC's. I noticed that there were a lot of pro things about being an FAC, so I was wondering if there were any con sides that you would like to share. Do you mind if I ask you a few sincere questions?
1) Did you have any trouble during your time as an FAC, whether it was cost wise or equipment or health?
2) Was there ever a time when you had a hard time grinding, and if you did, what levels were they?
3) How was your experience with PVP? You mention a bit about it, but not necessarily how you handled it. A bit of an account about your PVP experience could bring to light some questions or answers.
Please note that I ask these questions with complete respect, and that I only wish to understand a bit more about what goes into being an FAC at your level. Thank you for your information, and I hope you continue to enjoy playing Perfect World!
jaa,
sano0 -
Sylvae took my point and brought it to the FAC side xD nice to hear that.
As you can see most of the ppl (again) talking about FAC being awful are only formers FAC, so not much reality on FSC levelling.
Im FSC I CANT AOE LVL ALONE. I need a bm to do it, or zen. It takes me about 4-5 hits to kill mobs on my range lvl, having HH60 and with good shard on (+20 magic) and good equip (when I was on lvl 60-69 range, before you start saying things)
So as you can see, I do agree with Sylvae, FAC will definitely out level FSC. Besides all I can do to lvl is fbs (and those take times), world daily quest and orders os justice, which dont give many drops.0 -
The main hard part of leveling for me was mid-10s. I haven't spent any real life money on the game, so I only started getting mana charms and xp scrolls at higher levels. Use cyclone first, and the slowdown let's you get more hits in. High damage skills are only good for spikes, without slowdown you end up getting hit as much as if you used your base two skills for higher cost. Rarely does using Wield actually let you kill fast enough to avoid a hit, and the cost will be more than using Ironheart every couple of mobs. At lvl 8X I still only use cyclone and plumeshot.
There might have been some difficulty in the 20s, but nothing that I actually recall stands out. You eventually get good at avoiding gaining aggro, and moving away from spawns. In air just stop a combo and drop to avoid getting killed by a spawn. But starting in the 30s I was already focusing on grinding only mobs that were higher level than me, though evolved vipions were xp bugged if you were outside the range. In the 40+ I would hunt for ones that were 6 levels higher than me since it was possible to kill them quickly and get extra xp.
Cost wise it wasn't an issue. I did apothecary, so once I hit 30 I had a lot of focus powders ready for use. I never spent coins on clothing or mounts, so I earned up enough to start buying gold for charms and later xp scrolls. Grinding Vipion Revolutionairies was enough to equal out cost to drops so that I could focus on leveling exclusively with xp scrolls with gold at 100k range each. Foxwing Supremes and above started to earn me cash. Should be easier to make money with gold charms out now, more cost efficient.
PvP was 2 good TWs and 3 junk TWs. The 2 good ones had everyone around the same level. First one was alot of killing, pretty much all magic classes were one shots. Barbarians that were well-made needed the DoT charm breaking to kill them if doing solo. Otherwise just blasted away with whoever else was attacking. First one they couldn't really kill me. Their high lvl archer could one shot me if he got a crit with his best skill and my plume shell was down. But usually was brought down when a whole lot of people were on me, or they stopped going to reinforce their position to stop me from killing them as they left their gate. Going solo assault made it easier to break their attacks, but they got better at countering that the next match.
Second one they did much better, started having hunters for specific people and made use of stun locks more often. And once you are targeted by an archer, bm, and others, you're toast no matter what your build. Because what they keep ignoring, is the levels are not enough right now to make healing ranged classes all that viable an option.
Until most of the people in a TW are 80+, you're not going to be able to heal them. The high health classes are possible to heal, and were healed by the clerics and myself to keep their catapults up. I am more concerned with damage than healing, but the catapults will deal much more damage than I can. So if healing helps our team deal more damage than me casting does, that's what I'll do.
However when you have a bunch of 60 and under, you aren't going to be able to heal them. They are one shots, or just not enough damage able to be dealt to justify keeping them alive. Buffs will help, but I was getting hit for 15 points of damage from some of the people against us. Why heal that even if you could? It's just not worth the loss of damage from you casting to make it a smart decision. Though I did love when the enemy team did focus clerics on healing or reviving. Nothing more beautiful than seeing them drop dead from a level 10 razor feathers. Because if they follow their heal target when it moves, they will draw closer together if they hit the heal button. Might not be what they should do, but it is the current state of pvp right now.0 -
Ok seriously..this has gone on far too long.
QUIT THE ARGUEMENTS ABOUT FS AND FAC!
How about we resolve everything, and wipe out the cleric class altogether, guess what, all of you who keep the arguement burning are gunna be screwed.
Honestly..it's one thing to say you dislike a certain build, but to segregate and be prejudice towards them is way out of line. Let's put it this way, YOU, are YOU, not hundreds of other people. You're not the one to tell people which is better.
It's pointless as to ask which is better, because it DOES NOT MATTER! If you wanna play a barb with full mag, then go ahead...if you wanna play a veno without a pet, go ahead. It's all about the PLAYER'S PREFERENCE! It doesn't matter if you're the godliest of them all, or the weakest. You don't have to be uber in a game to have fun, so honestly..the fighting needs to stop.
And as for Pandora and Deadbone, if you two want to bash FAC, do it by yourself, the rest of us don't need to hear your petty excuses as to why FAC "sucks" or why "PVP is the center of the universe". If you're not gunna keep it to yourself, then keep it in ONE THREAD! You're making new players who want to be a cleric, seem pressured into being something they don't want to be, such as if they ask for a simple, "FAC or FS?" you post bullcrap saying YOUR way is the ONLY way, when in reality, it's not..so keep your opinions to yourself if you can't back up everything.
Incase you haven't noticed, FAC usually gets magic attack buffs, all debuffs and all offensive attacks, leaving just ironheart. Wow..lookie there..healing AND debuffs..just what you want..how amazing is that?!
Whereas a FS gets healing, buffs..and tends to skimp on debuffs or attacks.
It's amazing how you can bash a build that you enlist that you want.
Pandora ~ "Deadbone, after you're done healing, cast a mdef debuff so we can spike"
FAC fits that, and you're being rotten to them. Not everyone is perfect, if you're THAT concerned about how clerics do our thing, how about you make a cleric, then actually have fun for a change, instead of being some stuck up loser who thinks that "It's my way or the highway" is the best bet.
/Vent0 -
Thank you Sylvae for your account. This is but one example of what an FAC can do. However, it should also be noted to other people reading that this is what ONE player can do. Who knows if anyone else managed to play as Sylvae has? Some people or better or worse when it comes to playing certain games. It is possible then, to have seen an FAC cleric that could have done better. Or worse, even.
Now, I'm not just opening the floor to FAC's who have had great experiences. If anyone had created an FAC and switched to FSC or a hybrid, can you please post your experience? It would be nice to see what things were going on that caused you to switch and how it affected your gameplay afterward.
Thank you everyone who are posting constructive points for this argument. We look forward to your accounts.
jaa,
sano0 -
PS: I play a Full support cleric up to lv70 (from 70+, you have waaaay too much spare spirit and all support spells are maxed, so you end buying attack spells).
Will sum it up for ALL new clerics:
Support: Boring, SLOW, expensive AND you play for OTHERS, yes, you dont play to keep yourself entertained, you play to keep OTHER PEOPLE entertained, you keep them alive and doing high damage, which is what THEY want, if you are fine with that, playing on the shadows of everyone else with MINOR return (yes, nobody gives a **** about support clerics, "shut up, do your job and heal") this is the kind of cleric you can make.
And last, do you think ANYONE will ever be grateful about you saving them 2 hours of grinding by investing on revive lv10 instead of lv1? Do you think they will hand out free items to you because you saved hundreds of coins on their charms? No, that will NOT happen, stop dreaming. Only people who will help you out are your FRIENDS you make on the game, and friends would help you regardless of your class.
Attack: Entertaining (ALL attack clerics i have met said they are very happy about their characters), FAST, and all you need to worry about equipment is getting the best weapon you can to kill even faster, in the end, if you waste time investing on armor, you will level up faster than you can upgrade your whole equipment to a decent grade. And last, you are playing for YOURSELF, you will do the high damage, you will need to be careful to not steal aggro from tanker, you are the star of you own game here, you dont need to give a **** about others saying how "FAC sucks", they are just being jealous that you are being the main character instead of healing their **** because they are too cheap to buy charms/potions that in the end, will heal them on the same way that your heals would do it.
PS2: Once i hit lv70, i realized i had all buffs, revive, purify and stream on highest level possible, then started buying attack skills. Before, i had all at lv1 except for plume, which i always kept maxed, and cyclone, that i upgraded from lv1 to lv10 at level 66 to help on PvP/grind. Now i have a bunch of attack skills maxed or high level, and i must say, attack spells are a lot more entertaining than support spells.
My character right now is hybrid, but not by choice, the game has no more skills on support area.(Retired from Perfect World)
[SIGPIC]http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t297/Brain1203/smart.jpg[/SIGPIC]0 -
No one is forcing you to read any topic in this forum. If you're sick of it, alt-F4 and go back to leveling. Creating another thread like this only prolongs the argument.0
-
Hello everyone...
I have already started a thread similar to this one. However, if anyone has any account of what they went though as a FAC, whether it is was a good experience or not, I would like you to post your account of being an FAC in a thread labeled, "For all those involved in the FAC vs FSC argument".
You account will help other people make their OWN decisions based on your experience. So please drop in and tell us about what you went through so we can have proof on BOTH sides of the argument, the pros and the cons. I know there are some people that switched to hybrids, and I know that there are some that stayed a FAC. So please post whatever you can remember!
Please note that we are trying to draw this argument of FAC's away from flames and bashing to a more logical, personal and open debate.
Thanks for your time!
jaa,
sano
jaa,
sano0 -
Eliathel - Lost City wrote: »I post again here. I totally hate the way pandoras is explaining HIS AND ONLY HIS opinions and others players, even clerics.
Lets talk about something.
Im FSC, with a lot of VIT in the beginning. I had to re stat at lvl 50 bcs my dmg was awful and couldnt kill mobs, even wearing good equip, so all to mag to have a least some dmg.
So my opinion? Well... how can Envy talk about how FSC are better if she was FAC for all her first 70 lvls! Did she ever play a FSC being lower than 70? No.... did Pandora did it? either.... They ONLY talk about PvP which leaves a lot of PVE content outside and that is: levelling
So... this is my own experience being a FSC, taking as soon as I could res lvls to help others.
Literally. My dmg, my lack of attacking spells was so huge that killing a mob was a pain. Now im high enough that it does not matter, but previous was lvl was hard, ultin I re stated.
So before ppl talking TRY AT LEAST a FSC...
You can be true about FAC, totally, but you didnt ever play one, so your nice high lvl cleric doesnt count, since you didnt play one (at least FSC), actually you lvleed as a FAC, so wheres the PVE content there? THE ONE THAT MAKE YOU LVL actually... no where... youre only talking about pvp, which is yes, PART OF THE GAME, but not all.
And lets be serious, to reach lvl 70 you have to play a lot! Average players or weekend players wont ever reach that lvl in many months, unless they zen a lot or scroll xp and you know it.
So most of the time the build FAC will work, then you can start levelling others skill, yes, you wont be the best FSC, but you first have to reach lvl 70.
And all of your talks onyl refers to PVP content, yes your guild cares about that only, but MAKE CLEAR WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, and pls be polite. Your lack of education is so big that makes me think that you grown up among animals, which I have to say can be more respectful than you (and just read post to notice whom Im talking about)
learn what HH is.Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »maybe YOU should read a bit more carefully. I have never supported either side, I have simply stated repeatedly that people have the right to choose how they play, and you have no right to try and stop them from doing so.
The problem here is yours. Your unable to realize this is just a GAME where people come to have fun as they see fit. I don't care either way if someone rolls a FaC or an FsC. That is their choice. I only care if their having fun or not. If their having fun, that is ALL that matters, which is what you seem to have forgotten with your repeated diatribes against FaC's.
Your attempt at a flame was also pathetic. When you have more than one hair between your legs, and are more adept at flaming, you can try to flame me. You'll still fail at it, but you can attempt to do so anyway.
Your LEVEL doesn't mean squat if you still think that because your X level your therefore god and your word must be obeyed w/o question or thought.
I have more gaming experience than this game, I've been playing Online games since BBS's were "the" thing to be a part of and a 286 processor was top of the line (yes I am THAT old).
Don't EVER consider a persons character level as a measure of their gaming experience. Because in many cases you would be dead on wrong.
Acctually, if you're not on my side you are considering FAC as an legitimatly good build, which its not.
How about I'm the higher level, I have the in game experience. You don't. Nice to see you can get so frustrated over a game you've BARELY PLAYED "QQ YOUR MAKING FUN OF ME, GO GROW PUBES CUZ THATS SXE"
You can stop posting now scrub.
My entire guild is care bearthewordlesssignature wrote: »Thank you for giving the pros and cons. The only thing I have an issue is your line of 'suck at the game'. If FAC's sucked at the game, there wouldn't be any pros. So, Envy, kindly mind the fact that FAC's do not completely "suck".
Now from what I understand, Envy and Pandora are from guilds that "specialize" in PVP. So I'll give you due consideration about your opinion about FAC's and PVP. However, I do not see how you could know about FAC's and PVE if you've never created an FAC yourself.
Lines such as yours, Envy, is why this argument is going too far. Be respectful of both sides, and don't just try to glaze over the pros without being sincere.
jaa,
sano
The only WF with pheonix that are 90+ are in heaven / hell picking flowers and reciting poetry about how pretty there pheonix is.0 -
Little Envy ive been in HH, many ppl consider me a good support cleric, bcs IM A DAMN SUPPORT CLERIC since lvl 1. And Ive died as fast as a FSC having 1000 hp more then me.
Can I ask you something? Were you until +70 a FSC? Did you actually lvl as one?
All I need to hear is that.0
![http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t297/Brain1203/smart.jpg[/SIGPIC]](http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t297/Brain1203/smart.jpg[/SIGPIC]){kind=link}
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