Clerics & The Revive Skill

Wotsmaleus - Heavens Tear
Wotsmaleus - Heavens Tear Posts: 86 Arc User
edited December 2008 in Suggestion Box
My suggestion is that in order to encourage more cooperative behavior between individuals, is it not possible for Clerics to get some kind of reward for the reviving of fallen characters?

Lots of people seem to get really disenchanted with the Cleric, I think this kind of accelerated boost to EXP gathering not only works with the design of a cleric, but helps balance them out, as compared to the other classes, they are rather underpowered when it comes to combat.
"Everything is worth what the purchaser will pay for it." -Publius Syrius

"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

"The Bible is a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish, no interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." -Albert Einstein

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Post edited by Wotsmaleus - Heavens Tear on

Comments

  • Pinkpeach - Lost City
    Pinkpeach - Lost City Posts: 64 Arc User
    edited November 2008
    Hm correct me if I'm wrong but don't most clerics have revive? A lot don't tend to level it up - if that's what you're talking about - it's mostly because it costs both money and SP while not benefitting the cleric in any way.

    When your SP/money are limited there are a lot of other skills you'd prioritise over revive.
  • lordarravis
    lordarravis Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited November 2008
    Pinkpeach - Lost City wrote: »
    Hm correct me if I'm wrong but don't most clerics have revive? A lot don't tend to level it up - if that's what you're talking about - it's mostly because it costs both money and SP while not benefitting the cleric in any way.

    When your SP/money are limited there are a lot of other skills you'd prioritise over revive.

    I think what he means is some sort of reward for simply performing a revive, i.e. exp. This would be nice, but it would take some innovation to get it to work ;) Come with good ideas and send them in.
  • Deadbone - Sanctuary
    Deadbone - Sanctuary Posts: 292 Arc User
    edited November 2008
    Wotsmaleus - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    they are rather underpowered when it comes to combat.
    Underpowered? Bro, go study up on your class please T_T
  • Klath - Sanctuary
    Klath - Sanctuary Posts: 437 Arc User
    edited November 2008
    I agree with this, revive is the skill that saddens most that i have upgraded it past lv1, because everyone is waiting you to revive them so they get their exp back, and the cleric ALWAYS must respawn and lost his exp to revive others. Pretty unfair if you ask me...
    But its a dirty job, someone has to do it.
    (Retired from Perfect World)

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  • Altihnkai - Sanctuary
    Altihnkai - Sanctuary Posts: 89 Arc User
    edited November 2008
    Klath - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I agree with this, revive is the skill that saddens most that i have upgraded it past lv1, because everyone is waiting you to revive them so they get their exp back, and the cleric ALWAYS must respawn and lost his exp to revive others. Pretty unfair if you ask me...
    But its a dirty job, someone has to do it.

    there you said it yourself quoted in red.. thats the destiny of a cleric
  • Wotsmaleus - Heavens Tear
    Wotsmaleus - Heavens Tear Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited November 2008
    Deadbone - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Underpowered? Bro, go study up on your class please T_T

    I'm one of those nice Clerics that don't KS. I know I can, and I know that a lv10 Plume Shot is rather hefty, but how often to you see a cleric soloing past level 30?
    "Everything is worth what the purchaser will pay for it." -Publius Syrius

    "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

    "The Bible is a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish, no interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." -Albert Einstein

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Wotsmaleus - Heavens Tear
    Wotsmaleus - Heavens Tear Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited November 2008
    Pinkpeach - Lost City wrote: »
    Hm correct me if I'm wrong but don't most clerics have revive? A lot don't tend to level it up - if that's what you're talking about - it's mostly because it costs both money and SP while not benefitting the cleric in any way.

    When your SP/money are limited there are a lot of other skills you'd prioritise over revive.

    Things to note:

    *There is a bonus to Revive past level1. Each level helps reduced the experience loss a character experiences when killed. While not beneficial to the Cleric, it's VERY beneficial to the person who's died. A level 10 Revive reduces EXP loss by 90%

    *Money and SP are not a problem. Money you can get by selling every drop you come across and picking up coins. I'm hardly in a want of money. Spirit is easy to get too as if you kill things, do quests, and help with FBs you get spirit quickly.

    *The priority to Revive isn't big with me. However, what I am saying is that for every time a character accepts your Revive spell, you get EXP based on the level of the fallen character and the level of the spell. If there's a spirit gain (and maybe there should be one because it's a kindly act to raise the dead), It should be somewhat low.. a value determined not with a formula, but maybe a number like 10 Sp per revive.

    *the Cleric is unable to revive him/herself, this would balance that out and also make the Cleric a more tempting class to play.

    *A reward system was in another MMORPG I played. It shall remain unnamed. But in that game you at least received token EXP for a revive because it was a nice gesture.
    "Everything is worth what the purchaser will pay for it." -Publius Syrius

    "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

    "The Bible is a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish, no interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." -Albert Einstein

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Wotsmaleus - Heavens Tear
    Wotsmaleus - Heavens Tear Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited November 2008
    lordarravis wrote: »
    I think what he means is some sort of reward for simply performing a revive, i.e. exp. This would be nice, but it would take some innovation to get it to work ;) Come with good ideas and send them in.

    Well, my idea on the EXP would be 5 EXP for every level difference between you and the fallen character. Since it's more a accepted thing you might be helping people out in your own level the least EXP earned shoudl always be 5.. And a 5 EXP bonus for each level of revive past the first

    here's some examples:

    d is level difference
    r is Revive level minus 1 but never below 1.

    Level 25 Cleric w/ Level 2 revive revives a level 27 Blademaster.

    d*5+r*5 = 2*5+1*5 =15 EXP (And lets add 10 SP because lets face it, raising the dead is rather spiritual)

    Level 53 Cleric w/ Level 6 revive revives a level 10 Archer
    d*5+r*5= 42*5+5*5 = 235 EXP (And lets add 10 SP because lets face it, raising the dead is rather spiritual)

    In both examples, the Revive spell is one level higher than the r value. This is because at level one revive does not have an EXP loss easement. This encourages people to invest in the spell and use it more often when helping fellow players.

    Of course when you;re level 53, 235 EXP is a drop in the bucket, but this makes a sliding scale that still gives a token reward.

    Additionally, in a PvP environment, I do not believe that a Cleric should get the revive bonus if he/she just killed another player.
    "Everything is worth what the purchaser will pay for it." -Publius Syrius

    "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

    "The Bible is a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish, no interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." -Albert Einstein

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Drathir - Sanctuary
    Drathir - Sanctuary Posts: 103 Arc User
    edited November 2008
    Hmm... Though a scaled experience system like that would be rather abusable. Get low level clerics to revive suiciding level 100 or so's, over vice-versa (Though that wouldn't be particularly be worth it). I think give experience based upon revive level, and maybe just the level/hp of the player you're reviving. Or even just leave it at revive level to prevent any form of abuse. It's difficult to implement due to many easy abuses in the system. Which could be easily fixed by what some MMOs have done by including a catalyst in the casting of the resurrection spell. Though that would act as another large deterrent to Clerics getting revive as well I suppose.
  • Wotsmaleus - Heavens Tear
    Wotsmaleus - Heavens Tear Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited November 2008
    First, in order to get the revive spell a Cleric must be at least level 19, and be Aware of Principle. There's a few more things to consider:

    *At lv1 Revive does not reduce EXP loss. Painful for someone of a high levels.
    *Where does a high level char. go to suicide and yet still keep the Cleric alive?
    *Considering how many times a cleric could potentially die when using this technique, it would be easier to grind on lv 19 mobs than trying to pull off this stunt.
    "Everything is worth what the purchaser will pay for it." -Publius Syrius

    "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

    "The Bible is a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish, no interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." -Albert Einstein

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • waffl3ookie
    waffl3ookie Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    I don't see why Clerics should get anything for it, others do things for other people like barbarians giving people lifts and clerics giving lifts and venos using their pet to stop mobs attacking a group and we don't get anything for them. I'm simply saying that from my knowledge I still lost EXP when I got revived by a Cleric, same as if i had died. I mainly like the ressurect because it saves me from getting all the way back to where i had been when I died, instant life and helping the squad again. And Clerics aren't underpowered, dude stop whinging, do nice things for people and who knows maybe they'll give you something else in return!
  • Varlianne - Lost City
    Varlianne - Lost City Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    I gotta agree with waffl3....clerics shouldnt get anything for using a CLASS ability. Thats kinda ridiculous. Hell, I dont get anything for summoning my pet, or giving a spark to a tank.
  • waffl3ookie
    waffl3ookie Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    Varlianne - Lost City wrote: »
    I gotta agree with waffl3....clerics shouldnt get anything for using a CLASS ability. Thats kinda ridiculous. Hell, I dont get anything for summoning my pet, or giving a spark to a tank.
    Venos or so I've seen when they heal pets get an increase in chi, barely notable though. anyway point is, as you said, it's a class ability, if clerics get it for ressurecting then other classes should get it for other abilities, but then Wot will complain again saying that Clerics are still being unfairly treated.
  • andyboi
    andyboi Posts: 83 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    i leave my revive at level 1. You wont be bothered to fly across the map to revive someone. Just warn the party that you have lv1 revive when you are doing TTs, etc. If they don't like it, too bad.
  • Gantheral - Sanctuary
    Gantheral - Sanctuary Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    andyboi wrote: »
    i leave my revive at level 1. You wont be bothered to fly across the map to revive someone. Just warn the party that you have lv1 revive when you are doing TTs, etc. If they don't like it, too bad.

    Well generally it costs more coin and spirit to level your revive up anyway, and seeing if your not going to gain anything in return from it why should anyone bother leveling a skill that's pretty much worthless. Other then the fact of having to save time from going back from the nearest city or town or besides the fact that it's part of the skill tree to gain the skills under it later on.
  • Bobncut - Sanctuary
    Bobncut - Sanctuary Posts: 419 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    I can't believe anyone is opposed to rewarding clerics for making their character more capable of a support role.

    I'd say give the cleric a small fixed percentage of the experience they saved the other character. This should not lead to some weird leveling scheme as long as the cleric is getting 10% or less of the exp saved. Even at level 10 revive the character that died loses 10% of experience and the cleric would be gaining (at most) 10% of the 90% saved = 9% for a net experience loss to the party.
  • Tanell - Sanctuary
    Tanell - Sanctuary Posts: 73 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    How about this:

    Revive lvl 1 - gives 1% exp
    Revive lvl 2 - gives 1.25% exp
    Revive lvl 3 - gives 1.5% exp
    and so on... increasing by .25 each level

    Even if they revived a whole party of 6 people, they would only get 6% at level 1, and 19.5% at level 10. And how often does a Cleric revive.

    Also this would not be abused since anyone that volunteered to die and be revived would still loss exp. Why loss 5% so someone else can gain 6%+.
  • Xiv - Heavens Tear
    Xiv - Heavens Tear Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    ^this seems a good idea^
    BC this way Clerics would travel further to revive you for example
    that way supporting Teamwork and social interaction.
  • bluewater
    bluewater Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    Tanell - Sanctuary wrote: »
    How about this:

    Revive lvl 1 - gives 1% exp
    Revive lvl 2 - gives 1.25% exp
    Revive lvl 3 - gives 1.5% exp
    and so on... increasing by .25 each level

    Even if they revived a whole party of 6 people, they would only get 6% at level 1, and 19.5% at level 10. And how often does a Cleric revive.

    Also this would not be abused since anyone that volunteered to die and be revived would still loss exp. Why loss 5% so someone else can gain 6%+.
    Not if they just lvl up. You lose pretty much nothing after dying the first or second time.
  • SiLvErYn - Heavens Tear
    SiLvErYn - Heavens Tear Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    Please do something about these..
    We want to have fun..

    b:thanksb:thanksb:thanksb:thanks
  • blo0dyyay
    blo0dyyay Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    And i supose you would like to have XXX exp for each buff you give?
    clerics aren't underpowered or something, they are a suportive character and ressuructing falls under that, if you want to do damage or something, go mage? but the main roll for an cleric will always be suportive, the more suportive skills you got the more you will be needed for x things.
  • Daialura - Heavens Tear
    Daialura - Heavens Tear Posts: 134 Arc User
    edited December 2008
    Yeah I don't consider myself exactly underpowered... I solo all the time and get plenty of requests from players 5+ levels higher than me to come help them on their quests. I don't mind reviving folks even at the cost of losing exp myself. It's our lot in life to ensure the survival of the party. b:victory

    I've solo'd Krixxix and Suzerix and FB29, tanked Mantavip and Slitt and Empyrean Slither... I've beat Barbs, Blademasters and Archers at around my same level. Each class has its own strengths and weaknesses. The real trick is really learning what they are and how best to apply them to a situation. Any cleric that has really taken the time to get to know the subtleties of the class would likely agree that we're not underpowered. If you're still unsure, I'd be happy to arrange a Tempest demo for ya. =P

    I don't think giving special exp to clerics while reviving would be a good idea... Next you'll have Barbs getting special exp for getting attacked while in party, Venos wanting special exp for summoning a pet and all kinds of madness would ensue. :P

    PM me in game if you need a rez, lol. No charge. |( ^o^)/ <(woo hoo!)
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    And still too squishy...

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