Publically Viewable Bannable Bug List
Comments
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Ok i believe the orginal post wanted a more specific answer. However, service terms is a good start ther is a lot of grey area.
what exactly is a bug or exploit? If you **** the game defintely, That not just something that you stumble upon. Gouf, however, a veno might just fly up using an air pet. He is on the ground but he is called aerox cheif or something like that and he has wing i though before the fight he was an air mob. I think simpy so called bug should be posted if bannable. If not leave people alone about it.
I agree that a full list of bug should not be posted but for ones that can be easliy stumbled upon post them then people wont be mad if they get banned ( well at least not have a valid reason for being mad).
Just for example I paley guild wars some people figured out a back door the developers left open. well developers fault for leaving it there but the people all new they were doing wrong and was not something you could just stumble upon all people were banned GJ. However there was also a skill that when combined with other skills made your character pretty much invincible. Heck everyone use it its part of the game - result devs nerfed the skill and all the stuff that was gained before nerf was left alone. use this as an example. Bans should be handed down they keep the game fair however take care in bans regarding something a minial and air pet vs boss unless it is well know this is a bannable offence.0 -
boogiewoogie00 wrote: »To end my point of starting this thread. To ban people for using a bug that they have know way of officially knowing about is the same as in real life, as someone getting thrown in jail for breaking a law that exist in any law document.[/QUOTE
It is ltsted in the ToS. It does not lot list the specific glitches/bugs for a reason.
And your point about real life laws is inaccurate. There are many laws that cover a broad spectrum of actions. Lets say a car window of a neighbor gets broken by a toothbrush that was thrown, by you, out of window in your house. Whether intentional or unintentional, the car window was broke. Is this specific situation written anywhere in the law books? I highly doubt it. Does this make you any less responseable for your actions? No. You would still be found liable for the damages in civil court. My point is that specific glitches or bugs do not need to be written down in order for people to be banned for using them. You know a glitch or bug when you see it.. Even if you didn't know about it before hand.0 -
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Specgoesemo - Lost City wrote: »lol...if this is the case i suggest removing all obstacles in the game...no props, no houses, trees, rocks, etc. cuz it would be an "exploit" if we were caught standing on a rock...
plz dude get real, don't be such a zealot trying to look holier than thou... if i got banned for standin on **** and killing mobs then **** this game, i know a few other games that are a lot less ridiculous.. and im sure most ppl wouldnt want to play a game that bans ppl for something as farfetched as that...
Why don't you "Get real". Those objects are there for nothing more than scenery. I doubt they are there for you to use as a way of not taking damage while attacking mobs. What would be the point of armor then, we can all just stand on rocks/houses/tents attacking mobs without the fear of taking damage. If this was the case, they should just have everyone run around naked without armor or any defense whatsoever.0 -
All i know is if I am forced to do it cos me and my wife cant find people to help us "which is the norm" am I am banned.we'll simply quit spending 100 bucks a week on the game and go back to rohan and spend it thier.
If I can do it, it's because the game allows me to do it and I will do it and if I get banned you lose one of your better customer's.So if u see me doing it because I had to cos noone would help me and my wife.I sugest you turn a blind eye cos it will only be done once to get the stupid boss quest off my quest log Unless you want to lose someone who spends 500+ a month on the game.0 -
Drussella - Sanctuary wrote: »Thanks for being so sure about that on my behalf....
Are you telling me that if you didn't know about the air pet attacking some bosses glitch/bug before hand, that you would not realize this was a glitch/bug while it was happening? Do you think air pets taking no damage while the boss just stands there for 5-10 mins till he is dead, is how the game was intended to be played?0 -
I think the problem here isn't just a matter of searching the forums, it's:
1. "Glitches" are not clearly defined. I think of myself as a reasonably intelligent person, and well, the Gouf "bug" didn't seem all that much of a bug to me. Pulling things through walls is a bug. Teleporting bosses (not pulling, teleporting) them into the middle of Archosaur is a clear bug. Having a veno with a flying pet tank while the veno takes no damage? Sure, I can understand if you stuff the, "IT'S A BUG" argument down my throat, BUT if I happened to be passing by, and I'm in my level 20s, I would stop and think, "that's an interesting method." Why? It's all a question of degrees. The Gouf bug isn't as flashy, or as obvious (as many, many people have said in these forums). On the scale of how obviously something is a glitch, it's somewhere in the middle. Look below:
OBVIOUS GLITCH (walking through solid walls)
Venos with purple tails
Gouf ---- attacking on tents -- NORMAL GAMEPLAY
As you can see, I don't rate Gouf as an "obvious glitch." Why? Because a large segment of the PWI population will see a "glitched" Gouf and never realize it's a glitch. It's not obvious enough. And that's what makes it unfair.
Until a GM comes out and screams, "ANY AND ALL METHODS OF ATTACKING BOSSES WITHOUT TAKING ANY DAMAGE TO YOURSELF OR YOUR PET IS A HUGE GLITCH," then I stand by my statement. A "glitch" as commonly understood by most people (not just PWI players) is obvious, and a good 90% of the population should INSTANTLY think, "glitch!" when they see it. With Gouf, that's definitely not the case. Just look at how many people in the Gouf thread respond that they didn't realize it was a glitch until they were told by someone else. It doesn't matter what you or I as an individual think; the overall number of people confused about this matter does.
2. Not everyone reads the forums. Nowhere in the ToS does it say that the forums are mandatory. Nowhere does it say that you have to stay absolutely on top of all current gossip in PWI. With the glitches that we're talking about, there's a "reasonable doubt" as to whether or not they're standard game play or glitches. A lot of the population will simply think that they're being clever, and using the environment to their advantage. As someone who played Guild Wars religiously for quite a long time, I'm used to hiding behind walls to avoid arrows (and incidently, I can hide behind a wall and magic attack things on the other side with absolutely no damage to myself -- that's not "glitching" in Guild Wars terms. That's normal gameplay and is widely considered a common strategy.). How do I know that I'm not supposed to carry over that type of behavior to PWI because it would be "glitching?"
In any case, I'm just going to roll my eyes in exasperation and wait this issue out. And while I'm waiting, I shall also throw in the (obligatory, but extremely over-used) statement that I'll keep the majority of my money in another game until I feel a bit more comfortable that I won't be banned for what I think is normal gameplay.0 -
boogiewoogie00 wrote: »You know a glitch or bug when you see it.. Even if you didn't know about it before hand.
But that's one of the points. You don't always know a glitch or bug when you see it.
Take the Gouf bug for example. Someone has already mentioned this scenario. A Veno doesn't read these forums and doesn't know about the glitch. Veno is using an air pet while fighting Gouf in a squad. Air pet not taking any damage, so Veno thinks someone else is tanking even though Veno is unknowingly glitching. How would Veno know he/she was glitching Gouf? Should Veno be banned? Maybe warned, but not banned.
In this case, a known bug list or a link to a list in the login screen might have helped Veno to know about the bug.0 -
Jebbediah - Lost City wrote: »All i know is if I am forced to do it cos me and my wife cant find people to help us "which is the norm" am I am banned.we'll simply quit spending 100 bucks a week on the game and go back to rohan and spend it thier.
If I can do it, it's because the game allows me to do it and I will do it and if I get banned you lose one of your better customer's.So if u see me doing it because I had to cos noone would help me and my wife.I sugest you turn a blind eye cos it will only be done once to get the stupid boss quest off my quest log Unless you want to lose someone who spends 500+ a month on the game.
There is nobody "forcing" you to do it. You don't have to get the quest off your log. I have tons of boss quests still in my log, including Gouf. It would be best to wait and do the quests the proper way.0 -
Feraldreamzz - Sanctuary wrote: »
But that's one of the points. You don't always know a glitch or bug when you see it.
Take the Gouf bug for example. Someone has already mentioned this scenario. A Veno doesn't read these forums and doesn't know about the glitch. Veno is using an air pet while fighting Gouf in a squad. Air pet not taking any damage, so Veno thinks someone else is tanking even though Veno is unknowingly glitching. How would Veno know he/she was glitching Gouf? Should Veno be banned? Maybe warned, but not banned.
In this case, a known bug list or a link to a list in the login screen might have helped Veno to know about the bug.
Woudn't you notice that no one in your party is taking damge, including your pet?0 -
Feraldreamzz - Sanctuary wrote: »
Woudn't you notice that no one in your party is taking damge, including your pet?
No, not if there are other Venos in the squad. You don't see the pets in the squad list.
Besides, if nobody was taking damage, how would the Veno know it was them glitching? They would finish, say how weird was that, and move on. Sometimes you can tell who or which pet has aggro, but there are a lot of times when you can't tell by sight.0 -
Feraldreamzz - Sanctuary wrote: »
No, not if there are other Venos in the squad. You don't see the pets in the squad list.
Ok, you got me there. I would still find it funny that the boss just stands there without attacking and no other Vebo is healing their pet and no one else in the group is taking damage. It's not like Ghouf runs around, he just stands there like no one is around attacking him. I personaly would notice something like this.
Seriously, the Boss just stands there humming "It's a beautifull day" while you guys are killing him.0 -
Feraldreamzz - Sanctuary wrote: »
Ok, you got me there. I would still find it funny that the boss just stands there without attacking and no other Vebo is healing their pet and no one else in the group is taking damage. It's not like Ghouf runs around, he just stands there like no one is around attacking him. I personaly would notice something like this.
Seriously, the Boss just stands there humming "It's a beautifull day" while you guys are killing him.
I think the more experienced players would know somethings up. But let's face it, there are many many casual players around. Could be their first MMO. Or maybe you're just not paying full attention because someone is talking to you while you're on the computer. There are a lot of reasons why someone might not notice.
I think having access to a list or a link to a list from the login screen is a great idea. Don't other MMO's provide a link to known issues/bugs?0 -
Feraldreamzz - Sanctuary wrote: »
Seriously, the Boss just stands there humming "It's a beautifull day" while you guys are killing him.
Sorry, I know this is a serious discussion, but the image of the scenario you just presented had me laughing so hard.
At any rate, I would think that a viewable bannable bug list, OR a list of apparent glitches posted somewhere where the players could just click and view would benefit a lot of players in the long run. We don't all think "oh, yeah, shouldn't do that" in some cases, such as the Gouf bug.A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity. -Robert Frost0 -
Feraldreamzz - Sanctuary wrote: »
I think the more experienced players would know somethings up. But let's face it, there are many many casual players around. Could be their first MMO. Or maybe you're just not paying full attention because someone is talking to you while you're on the computer. There are a lot of reasons why someone might not notice.
I do agree that there are always exceptions. That is why there is a helpdesk/ticket support to sort out these matters. But I do believe that a overwhelming majority of the people that complain by making threads knew what they were doing as the did it. There are always going to be in the minority that are effected by the actions of the majority.0 -
Feraldreamzz - Sanctuary wrote: »
I think the more experienced players would know somethings up. But let's face it, there are many many casual players around. Could be their first MMO. Or maybe you're just not paying full attention because someone is talking to you while you're on the computer. There are a lot of reasons why someone might not notice.
I think having access to a list or a link to a list from the login screen is a great idea. Don't other MMO's provide a link to known issues/bugs?Eislynn - Sanctuary wrote: »
Sorry, I know this is a serious discussion, but the image of the scenario you just presented had me laughing so hard.
At any rate, I would think that a viewable bannable bug list, OR a list of apparent glitches posted somewhere where the players could just click and view would benefit a lot of players in the long run. We don't all think "oh, yeah, shouldn't do that" in some cases, such as the Gouf bug.
It would be nice to have a list. But can you imagine how many more people abuse these glitches and bugs were all listed in a nice stickied thread. Anyone who wanted to abuse them would just have to come to the forums and click on the sticky. In other MMO games I have played, it was bannable to even give specifics of a glitch/bug/**** in a forum post.0 -
boogiewoogie00 wrote: »To end my point of starting this thread. To ban people for using a bug that they have know way of officially knowing about is the same as in real life, as someone getting thrown in jail for breaking a law that exist in any law document.[/QUOTE
And your point about real life laws is inaccurate. There are many laws that cover a broad spectrum of actions. Lets say a car window of a neighbor gets broken by a toothbrush that was thrown, by you, out of window in your house. Whether intentional or unintentional, the car window was broke. Is this specific situation written anywhere in the law books? I highly doubt it.
Yes breaking someone's window is called property damage. So there ia a law about it!
Property damage is damage to or the destruction of public or private property, caused either by a person who is not its owner or by natural phenomena.0 -
Why don't you "Get real". Those objects are there for nothing more than scenery. I doubt they are there for you to use as a way of not taking damage while attacking mobs. What would be the point of armor then, we can all just stand on rocks/houses/tents attacking mobs without the fear of taking damage. If this was the case, they should just have everyone run around naked without armor or any defense whatsoever.
Well your armor example is as ridiculous as the noobs that support banning for all the dumb reasons you cna find on this server. Not to mention the fact that standing on areas where mobs can't hit you GENERALLY makes the mob run away and regen health... so if you find some mobs that don't have that attribute, I'd certainly hope you'd take advantage of that. If not, whatever it's your heiro/pots/time that is getting wasted by tanking/kiting the mob, no mine. I'll continue using the basic game mechanics to my advantage until someone with the powers to ban specifically says what I'm doing is wrong. And I say specifically because you can twist all those ******** rules/ToS all you want and make them the most ****, unheard of things ever [more than they already are...] And with that last point, it rules out all those arguing that all bugs/exploits are "obvious". Without a clear list of known bugs/exploits, it is unfair to ban people. To those saying a list would give players reason to try things, every other game does that, and that is not the outcome...0 -
boogiewoogie00 wrote: »
Yes breaking someone's window is called property damage. So there ia a law about it!
Property damage is damage to or the destruction of public or private property, caused either by a person who is not its owner or by natural phenomena.
And so is glitch/bugs abuse. It is clearly spelled out in the ToS.0 -
The problem with the person who said you know a glitch when you see a glitch is maybe you do realize a glitch but once you realize it's too late. If a GM sees you “Exploiting" a bug, which is what they think you are doing, you get banned. So how would you feel, you’re fighting one and and you stumble across a bug at that moment a GM sees and bans you. I think you'd be pretty mad!!!
And here’s a question for you. You assume that a Veno would know that while killing Gouf with a flying pet (which is what I fight with all the time) that they would think ”oh he’s a bug since their pet isn’t taking any damage” correct?
Well if that’s how you see then KunKun must be a bug right? I mean he is a lvl 100 monster that can be killed in about 5 hits and my pet doesn’t take any damage.
No he’s not! So it would be very easy for a Veno to think the same about Gouf.0 -
You are kidding, right? KunKun starts moving and runs away. Ghouf just stands there for 5-10 mins humming " It's a beautiful day" while you kill him and doesn't move.0
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boogiewoogie00 wrote: »
And so is glitch/bugs abuse. It is clearly spelled out in the ToS.
But I'm not talking about abuse. Did you even read the first entree?? You get banned if you get caught use a bug even it's the frst time and you don't know that it's a bug,. No warning nothing!!! This whole thread was started because I asked for a list of the glitches/bugs so that I didn't get banned for doing something I didn't know exsisted. For example Gouf. I have a quest for him as we speak and I would have went to fight him with my flying pet, because that's what i always use. Well if a GM saw me approaching him with my flying pet, I would have gotten banned.
The only reason I even know about Gouf is because I can to the forum to find his coordinates and found a topic about his bug. Had I not seen that I probably would be banned now.0 -
You are kidding, right? KunKun starts moving and runs away. Ghouf just stands there for 5-10 mins humming " It's a beautiful day" while you kill him and doesn't move.
I've killed KunKun at least 5 times and he doesn't run away. While my pet is hitting him, so do I and it takes less than 30 secs. He doesn't have time to run if your doing enough damage! 3 hits is all it takes.0 -
Abuse of a glitch or a bug doesnt mean it has to be used many times to be considered abuse. They will never have a public list for the simple reason that there are too many people who would use the list to abuse the glitches or bugs. There would be far more more people abusing the glitches/bugs with a public list than there are now.0
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boogiewoogie00 wrote: »I've killed KunKun at least 5 times and he doesn't run away. While my pet is hitting him, so do I and it takes less than 30 secs. He doesn't have time to run if your doing enough damage! 3 hits is all it takes.
So are you telling me he does nothing, just stands there and doesnt recognize he is being attacked?
And you cant tell me that flying above ghouf and your pet not taking any damage while you solo him that you would think this was not a glitch or bug?0 -
>.> summary of ToS:
play fair and nice so you won't get banned -.-0 -
It would be nice to have a list. But can you imagine how many more people abuse these glitches and bugs were all listed in a nice stickied thread.
People looking to abuse the bugs would search the forums (and not just this one), something which thread starter was told to do ... Why keep it secret if it's already on the net and expected to be found by (all) players.
And it doesn't need to list procedures detailing how to replicate them but a list with 'symptom' to look out for that would indicate something was wrong. Such as the bugger standing in trance and nobody taking damage.
On a side note, I couldn't tell from what you post about this bug if you know the details. It's not good if people don't know the bug, see something that vaguely resembles something they heard about and report an event that is actually completely within normal gameplay, such as a flying pet attacking a (boss) mob.0 -
Thank you Turtlewax! The people who would exploit the bugs probably already know about them and if they didn't would find out some how. But it's unfair to those who just play the game to have a little fun in their hectic lives, not know what they are doing wrong to be banned for.
No I do not the full details of the Gouf bug and I don't need to know all of it. Like turtlewax said a vague list saying something like "Gouf bug involves veno and flying pet" Honestly that's all I need to know. I would just not use my flying pet on that monster. Apparently from what jenenji has said I now know that you must be flying above Gouf. Well there might as well be a list about it because those people who would use that information for the bad now have it.0 -
I am honestly am not tring to be mean and cause such a debate. I simply want to be able to know what the bugs are ahead of time so I can just enjoy the game with out constantly having to worry am I doing something bannable.0
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boogiewoogie00 wrote: »I am honestly am not tring to be mean and cause such a debate. I simply want to be able to know what the bugs are ahead of time so I can just enjoy the game with out constantly having to worry am I doing something bannable.
No worries, healthy debates are always good.0
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