The future state of PvP in PWI
foostermonk
Posts: 11 Arc User
Hello! im basicaly new to this game and am looking forward to when i am PvP ready.
I come from a different gaming system that is more player/skill based and this seems to be more build/ gear based. This leads to several thoughts on the future of PvP for this game.
First of al lthis is NOT a QQ thread on how the devs may be noobin it up. It is intended to provide a helpful forsight into the future state of the game.
I am an exp pvp player from several different games and there seems to be common themes i have seen in each. i wish to poin these out here and open an INTELLIGENT discussion on what
options could adress the issues at hand.
The first issue deals with monotony.What i mean by this is there are several common "cookkie cutter" classes and builds.Humans by nature like shiney new things to keep us entertained.We love new toys and more bells and whistles.Cookie cutter builds never change and though effective, make gameplay boring facing against the same basic 5 things(whatever they may be varries with each game)And nothing bores me more than lpaying the same class and same build all the time. So if i have one of each class but only 2 or 3 accepted builds in each, im restricted. THerefore i recomend the devs do things to continualy provide veriety. The nerf stick is a good tool for this. it not only balances the game but also forces players to take advantage of other obscure skills that someone spent weeks writing a program for. There is more than one way to skin a cat and cookie cutter builds take away our ability to actualy "think" about the game mechanics itself and bake a new build, thus we start to get bored.
The second thing i notice in various gaming comunities is the lack of interaction between the real staff at PWI and its playerbase. Many times i notice that the player base feels ignored and PR is SO inportant to promotng and having a sucessful game.The devs cant keep everyone happy all the time.So maintaining a positive relationship with th eplayerbase in BOTH pve and pvp will serve well.Many other games attempt to do this but the farthest they go is they will post a thread on a website or two, and read over the suggestions every once in a while.
in Guild wars, they had thier PR manager actualy log into the game every few months to make major anouncements when major changes were going to be made.That person would talk with everyone in the city and answer peoples questins personaly sometimes.
This i noticed made a big impact on A-Net's relationship to the public and helpeed them keep thier game popular.They actualy listened to thier playerbase.Not just a select few alpha testers.
And last but not least...
In all other games that are pvp based they alow the player to customize his keyboard to his/her liking. and i mean right down to teh last detail. this is limited here in PWi. if i could set up my hotkeys and movement keys to what i want instead of being restricted to AWSD.Im not going to go into the many flaws i still see in the game mechanics here, as this is still beta and im sure the devs will be aware of most of them already.
And least...
However, one thing i do see is there needs to be a "noob friendly training ground" for those new to PK. I see in this game you can duel any one at any time. that is good. however quite often i walk up and challenge a guy and we are not matched properly. so perhaps in order to keep the pros with the pros and noobs wtih the noobs,
a 10 level difference is in order. This will benefit the comunity in general as a whole and perhaps upset those fake pros that only know how to farm noobs all day. Thereby maintaining some sort of balance. if im lf 30 and some lv 50 guy ganks me and loots me, im NOT gonna be happy. perhaps if oyu can only loot a player close to your level.
I come from a different gaming system that is more player/skill based and this seems to be more build/ gear based. This leads to several thoughts on the future of PvP for this game.
First of al lthis is NOT a QQ thread on how the devs may be noobin it up. It is intended to provide a helpful forsight into the future state of the game.
I am an exp pvp player from several different games and there seems to be common themes i have seen in each. i wish to poin these out here and open an INTELLIGENT discussion on what
options could adress the issues at hand.
The first issue deals with monotony.What i mean by this is there are several common "cookkie cutter" classes and builds.Humans by nature like shiney new things to keep us entertained.We love new toys and more bells and whistles.Cookie cutter builds never change and though effective, make gameplay boring facing against the same basic 5 things(whatever they may be varries with each game)And nothing bores me more than lpaying the same class and same build all the time. So if i have one of each class but only 2 or 3 accepted builds in each, im restricted. THerefore i recomend the devs do things to continualy provide veriety. The nerf stick is a good tool for this. it not only balances the game but also forces players to take advantage of other obscure skills that someone spent weeks writing a program for. There is more than one way to skin a cat and cookie cutter builds take away our ability to actualy "think" about the game mechanics itself and bake a new build, thus we start to get bored.
The second thing i notice in various gaming comunities is the lack of interaction between the real staff at PWI and its playerbase. Many times i notice that the player base feels ignored and PR is SO inportant to promotng and having a sucessful game.The devs cant keep everyone happy all the time.So maintaining a positive relationship with th eplayerbase in BOTH pve and pvp will serve well.Many other games attempt to do this but the farthest they go is they will post a thread on a website or two, and read over the suggestions every once in a while.
in Guild wars, they had thier PR manager actualy log into the game every few months to make major anouncements when major changes were going to be made.That person would talk with everyone in the city and answer peoples questins personaly sometimes.
This i noticed made a big impact on A-Net's relationship to the public and helpeed them keep thier game popular.They actualy listened to thier playerbase.Not just a select few alpha testers.
And last but not least...
In all other games that are pvp based they alow the player to customize his keyboard to his/her liking. and i mean right down to teh last detail. this is limited here in PWi. if i could set up my hotkeys and movement keys to what i want instead of being restricted to AWSD.Im not going to go into the many flaws i still see in the game mechanics here, as this is still beta and im sure the devs will be aware of most of them already.
And least...
However, one thing i do see is there needs to be a "noob friendly training ground" for those new to PK. I see in this game you can duel any one at any time. that is good. however quite often i walk up and challenge a guy and we are not matched properly. so perhaps in order to keep the pros with the pros and noobs wtih the noobs,
a 10 level difference is in order. This will benefit the comunity in general as a whole and perhaps upset those fake pros that only know how to farm noobs all day. Thereby maintaining some sort of balance. if im lf 30 and some lv 50 guy ganks me and loots me, im NOT gonna be happy. perhaps if oyu can only loot a player close to your level.
Post edited by foostermonk on
0
Comments
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???
The GM were active in the beginning, but i havent heard much of them lately...
About PK, you can ONLY loot someone who is red, meaning they killed someone already. There doesnt need to be a level restriction there... And it would be boring if there was a level restriction on duels... Some people, even after telling them you're level, still wanna try, even if they are clearly outmatched, just to see how well or bad they'd do, and since there's no penalty to duels (except the swords timed penalty to some people 30+ which isnt really a big deal) it shouldnt be a big problem.Name: Rei
Server: Lost City
Race/Class: Winged-Elf/Cleric0 -
Being a former-MapleStory player, the first two of your points don't bother me at all.
However, I can completely see where you're coming from with the HotKey Set Up. We're restricted to 14 Keys for both skills and actions. Yeah, you're free to put skills in the slot above it, but you can't press a key to use them. You have to point and click.
I think this would benefit almost everybody, since every class has a rather diverse skill tree. Those who wish to keep this keyboard set up are free to, but at least give other players the option of setting up their own configuration.Shana / 7x Robe Wizard / ReturneR Marshal
... And damn proud of it.0 -
well i think not only a customizable interface, (witch im 90% sure they will implement as they must in order to stay competative with the new ames that will come out) but i want to be able to walk backwards as well and strafe. hot have to turn right around and run; thus losing my line of
site on what i need to see.
Not only that but a hot key for the folowing..
1) nearest enemy
2)nearest ally
3)target self
make these all customisable as well. i hate having to move my fingers so far. i want to be able to either put my mouse down all together OR use both at once without having to worry about hittim the wrong keys out of habit.
Other than that the bigger picture on teh state of the game,players need to know the support team is working on thier concerns. That is what PR (public relations) is for.
If im starting to get bored with a game or unhappy with cirtain aspects and grow tired of pormised rumors of it being fixed, a good PR can adress these things and assure me as a player that the game is going to keep improving. With out PR, i will eventually defect over to a game that is newer, and cares more about its product. thats what bad PR can do.
When PWI first came out 1 year ago, the GM's were responsive. now i see threads all over hat thy arent responding anymore.This is understandable as more and more bugs and things come out of the woodwork, they start to get busy. perhaps understaffed even and dont have time.
Now one more thing in PK mode, there shuold be a way to nerf bullys.What i mean by that is
those level 60 guys that hang around just waitng to kill some poor guy that realized he was out matched but escaped into a safe zone. The bully will stand there all day if need be.and constantly harass the same player. This imature behaviour needs some controls on it.
Dont get me wrong, if oyu hit the PK button your on your own, and free game.But I am talking about in game harassment to the point where the gamers expirence is not fun and goes over to a different game.
It's all about the players expericance. thats what gaming is, an expierence. and the devs constantly ask themself,"what do people experience when they play this game? is it fun or boredom or did they just get harassed by someone?"
Why buy thier online real cash products to enhance a character when all they do online is NOT have fuin but get harassed? Once you realize you may lose a PK match if you are good enough to actually get away and hit a safe zone, good for you! you at least had that mutch and you should not be hounded all day over it.
And ill say it one more time... NERF stunning! or at least put in a buff taht reduces stun time. or perhaps an equipment piece. but prvide players a way to counter that garbage.Perhaps even a buf that gives you 75% chance to evade all projectiles and melee attacks, or takes 75% less damage while stunned.. that way you would need to think of some other way to damage the target and soon find out who the real pros are!.instead of that cheap over powered technique that makes noobs think they are pros and all they did was read a forum and crank thier stats up to increase stunning.0 -
Well Im Still Downloading The Game D; its a ridiculous wait...
like 13% on the 1st quarter in just a hour OMGOSH
suppose it'll be worth it though0 -
I saw the words "nerf stick" and all that said to me was "stop reading"...
Let me explain to you what exactly this "nerf stick" idea really is:
-Method of pleasing the noobs because they don't want to take the time to level/farm good gear/get mats etc. Nor do they want to take the time to learn ways of countering the players that DO take the time to accomplish these things.
-Pisses off the people that have figured out how to use their character to its fullest potential, only to find out that noob bitching convinced the devs to "nerf" their builds.
I've played all kind of MMO's: level-based, skill-based, equipment-based, time-based, AND real life cash-based. This game seems to be ALL of the above combined. Higher level? Chances are you are gonna pwn. Better EQ? Of course you're gonna be better. Put more time into the game than someone else? Chances are you will be more well rounded in all of these aspects. Use the CS? Yeah you're gonna be more efficient since you can get miji and heiros, etc. Got skill? Yes, this game does require skill, if you can develop strategies, you can win. Don't even argue that point.0 -
DuDe no one was aguiing anything.
please dont tun this into a flame fest typicaly done by PvP players by uttering a challenge like that. That just like to troll and rant.. By your own admission you didnt even read the post.Perhaps you felt offended or felt like i was callong you a noob or something when i said this is not a skill based game.That was not my intent, I was not calling players **** with that statement. if you like, or you can open your own thread with a guide on the skills needed for each class, and help the comunity. And i mean the skills that rely on the player not the bar he uses or the stats he makes or the gear he grinds. write up on things that only the player can do thas seperate from his gear and skill bar and stats.
You agressivley jumped all over the topic like ur some kind of pro gamer, and didnt even read the entire post.Dont come off so agressive when you didnt even read what is said here. The topic is not made to impress you or gain your approval. Nerfs are necessary. Every game that has ever gone anywhere on the internet has used the nerf stick. And NO its not made to appease noobs. its made to keep things balanced and interesting. and it forces players to get off the cookie cutter band wagon.
Add INTELEGENT and relevent comments here. no flame wars and imature "righteous opinions. Contibute to the topic at hand and support it with more than jsut how "pro" you may be.
Establish a resonable and well supported observation on what you think it will take for this game to out last all the new fancy ones that will come out like Diablo 3. and other real time MMO's. Guidl wars is coming out with #2 as well this game will have to compete with those games. and those games in many points are far better thatn this one, however they are not in beta.
Help the comunity out and the devs too if they read this. and provide clear points on what you see as important factors to make the game a sucess.0 -
Specgoesemo - Lost City wrote: »I've played all kind of MMO's: level-based, skill-based, equipment-based, time-based, AND real life cash-based. This game seems to be ALL of the above combined. Higher level? Chances are you are gonna pwn. Better EQ? Of course you're gonna be better. Put more time into the game than someone else? Chances are you will be more well rounded in all of these aspects. Use the CS? Yeah you're gonna be more efficient since you can get miji and heiros, etc. Got skill? Yes, this game does require skill, if you can develop strategies, you can win. Don't even argue that point.
ok so you say high level means you will do well. In other games,I could defeat a foe 25+ higher than me in level and we were the same class same skills available. it came down to the person using the bar. Now you say this game is skill based.. how so? if i got better gear and higher level than another plaeyr, i win regardless of class and skill(unless i literaly jsut stand there and let him beat me)
Define what you mean by skill. Skill is a factor in this game, but not very much at all. Its all in the bar stats and gear.Many games that i call skill based put gear and level all on the same level.
Meaning everyone has the same level rgardless of clas exp or whatever else, the same mods for their gear universally accros the board, and the same amount of atributes points to invest.
it was BALANCED. and it came down to the person using the bar not just what he wore or how much he spent on ebay.
this is what i mean by skil based. i don't mean the skill bar.
Gear based is exactly like it sounds and that is the determining factor i see here in this game.
example: what defeines a good cleric?I tell you what, how many will choose the level 40 cleric over the level 39 cleric?(only one level difference there) and why will they choose the lv 40? because he is better skil wise? No. befause he has 5 extra attributes invested in his character and has done more grinding.
Now when you are in a town, and you see a blademaster wtih the really cool looking armour and weapons ant level 48, and beside him is another blademaster with the stuff baught at the merchant, and he is level 63,
how many will choose the cool looking one over the plain one? and this choice is made even before thier level is realised? So you see my point. skil is a much smaller factor in this game.
if i got the best gear and higher level i win. end of story.
now as for straategies.. That is skill. it takes the right mix to pull of a win sometimes. especialy in organised PvP. Team dynamics and tactics are HUGE. in organised pvp at this level, tatcics posiitoning and individual skill as well as efficient team dynamics and synergy wiell out match the gear and the stats.
I do not see any organised team based PvP in this game yet. if there is please clue me in and sign me up!
i was quite high ranked in other organised pvp games with several nicknames, and i peronaly really enjoy playing on a team in organised pvp much better than 1v1 and gear grinding. and this is one thing that can effect the future of this game.
So far the devs are doing a good job. despite all teh falws still in it, im sure they are working on it and this may turn into a really good game. esp if there is organised pvp setings where two factions could fight each other and gain glory or something.0 -
Out of all you have said your point on the Key Bindings is definatly something i agree with. When i first started okaying it took me hours to get used to the controls. I thought the default key layout was horrific.
Not having no target nearest mob key... OMG. Even now i still press the tab key when im not really thinking about what im doing. But i know i will eventually get used to this even if it does take a while. But more importantly than that is the inability to customise your keys. Im not a particulary high lvl but ive to many abilities even at lower lvls.
I may get called a noob for this i dont care but having to hit the tab or ~ key to change my current bars to do 1 ability then double tap them agen to get back to the original set i was on is freaking rediculous. I love customising my keys fully because i love PvP. I like to be able to have WASD for movement and then use all the keys around that for my abilities. This way i am able to keep my hand on my movement keys and i can i know where all my keybindings are with ease.
Since ive been playing ive been hoping that they will make it possible to cistomise your keys.
But tbh i honestly think that they will either not change this atal or to late. The more abilities that i learn the more aggrevating this becomes. I really do enjoy the game but who knows, Mayb i will end up getting that wound up in the end i will just stop playing0 -
maybe we just stick to pve till tehy fix it then.b:laughb:laugh
well play pve till we are bored then go back to our old games that alows us to fine tune our hotkeys. i know for myself i dont wanna buy any of thier online cash items if i cant even move my character around properly. Why bother ?ill stil die jsut as fast regarless of extra storage and some cool pet or whatever else they got in thier real money store. and the target system omg! i was in pk mode and got ganked... i flew away and tried to target the guy tryin to kill me... i couldnt! my own character was in teh way because i cant toggle the camera to a hidsight ciew and still move the direction i want. i got pwnt and laughed at. and its all becaouse i couldlt target him. i felt soo no0b.
Anyhow the hotkey issue is the first thing i noticed when i played. i was in the startr village for 5 minutes looking around trying to fiure out how to ajust that horrid set up.I hate having to move my fingers so far away from my movement keys! It reduces me to a button masher. i did figure out however to bind some keys to my mouse and use the macros in the game. i like tha macro set up, but i still open 5 windows before i realise it just trying to out maneuber my enemy. bad. i may as well roll my face across the keyboard and look up to see who is dead.
Anyhow enough about my lil stories. Every single high level PvP player i have ever met online is VERY fussy on thier keypad set up. if this issue is not a major priority for th edevs, they will NOT attract any top level pvp players because they will jsut get frustrated and go play somehting else, and never buy one thing from thier cash store.There is still pve, and that also will suffer.0 -
Errrhhh this is a "free" to play game.
If all depeneds in skill instead of gear/level how would they make money?
And don't worry about balance. The legendary pets are coming, rich WF's willl pawn your **** anyway.
WF's with the Phoenix willl rule PVP. WF's with Hercules will be able to solo HH-team mode.0 -
And that is one of my concerns.Everyone running around with the same thing!
If that happens, the game will get boring. Noo one will make any other class other than
what alows you to have a pet! Concerning PvP, balance is CRUCIAL! Too keep PvP good, you need to make every class formidable in its own ways. If all these players that made a wizard and an archer for PK, get over run by a zoo full of pets how many do you think will take the time to level an entire new character back to 50+?Not me for one. I plan on playing this one character untill its level 80 ish.So for the pets, the nerf stick will force people to invent new ways to play other than just mash buttons.0 -
quote "And last but not least...
In all other games that are pvp based they alow the player to customize his keyboard to his/her liking. and i mean right down to teh last detail. this is limited here in PWi. if i could set up my hotkeys and movement keys to what i want instead of being restricted to AWSD.Im not going to go into the many flaws i still see in the game mechanics here, as this is still beta and im sure the devs will be aware of most of them already."
I agree with this more than anything. So some love to left handed people already.0 -
Why didn't you just start a new thread and leave this thing to die? The others are gone by now with all their complaints and your post is only attempting to revive what should be lost and forgotten.Do not walk behind me, I will not lead
Do not walk in front of me, I will not follow
Do not walk beside me, This twisted road I must walk alone0 -
for all you dumbasses
The gms here cnat change anything like how pvp works, only the ****heads in china can.
the ****heads in china will never read these boards so way to go wasting your time posting that long **** post.0 -
And seriously most of the shiit u said is just that...shiit!!
How is it fair that the guy who jus picks up the game can easily defeat the person who spends months investing his time in leveling and farming his gear? How is that balanced? Does it not makes sense that if ur a HIGHER LEVEL u should have a better chance of winning? And if u spent more time grinding and running hh(twilight temple) and sellling that for money to make ur gears uber is it fair that someone runs along with npc gear and destroys u? This game isnt JUST about skill its about Preparation as well. If people have similar gears its still very skill and luck dependent so stop the Q_Q and please either enjoy the game as is or GTFO. You dont have to spend a dime to have elite gears.b:byeOfficial Guild History
Conqueror->kamisama0 -
Chaotiic - Lost City wrote: »And seriously most of the shiit u said is just that...shiit!!
How is it fair that the guy who jus picks up the game can easily defeat the person who spends months investing his time in leveling and farming his gear? How is that balanced? Does it not makes sense that if ur a HIGHER LEVEL u should have a better chance of winning? And if u spent more time grinding and running hh(twilight temple) and sellling that for money to make ur gears uber is it fair that someone runs along with npc gear and destroys u? This game isnt JUST about skill its about Preparation as well. If people have similar gears its still very skill and luck dependent so stop the Q_Q and please either enjoy the game as is or GTFO. You dont have to spend a dime to have elite gears.b:bye
Amen to thatOoo I know lets roll pvp server so i can QQ about pking...
Loving Cyprus the weather is Hot the women are Hot and the beer is cold b:victory0
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