Venomancer: Too Good.
Myish - Sanctuary
Posts: 194 Arc User
Please be careful when reading this. I don't want you to missunderstand me. This is not a joke and I'm not trying to "reverse-psychologize''you. I'm serious.
K, I don't know much about the other classes but as far as I've seen so far, venomancer's are pretty much the best class ever.
Venomancer's are awesome for people who like to solo and don't really have the time to waste searching for a team to kill mobs and stuff. The class is so self-sufficient, not needing to rely on any support to take out strong bosses or simply slaughter large amounts of mobs to finish those rediculous "kill 10000 of XXXXX monster" type quests. high damage, speed, flexibility with respect to combat style, this class is undoubtedly overpowered in many repects. It comes with some disadvantages like low HP and resistances to physical, but those are so negligible compared to the sheer power you have and can be easily balanced with a smart player who is able to control his/her pet to take the damage.
I'm not bashing any of the other classes but no class simply comes close in awesomeness to the Veno! But this is where the problem begins...
To all you new people though, as a warning, you may not want to play as a veno because this class is very numerous in-game and may not be needed in many teams. this class' obvious overpoweredness, has saturated the game to the extent that I once saw a full venomancer squad of lvl 19s doing FB19... and succeed (but that's not the point). Classes that are sought after at the moment (that you many consider playing because it will offer a more balanced game) would be barbarian and cleric, which are pretty cool classes, which are more team oriented. Probably in the long run they will also offer the most diverse game experience (not that venos don't play a crucial role in squads).
In short, if you are just joining PWI: as a class to begin with, take:
1) Cleric
2) barbarian
3) anything else
4) venomancer
No joke, cause the second you start a veno. You...will...be...hooked...
K, I don't know much about the other classes but as far as I've seen so far, venomancer's are pretty much the best class ever.
Venomancer's are awesome for people who like to solo and don't really have the time to waste searching for a team to kill mobs and stuff. The class is so self-sufficient, not needing to rely on any support to take out strong bosses or simply slaughter large amounts of mobs to finish those rediculous "kill 10000 of XXXXX monster" type quests. high damage, speed, flexibility with respect to combat style, this class is undoubtedly overpowered in many repects. It comes with some disadvantages like low HP and resistances to physical, but those are so negligible compared to the sheer power you have and can be easily balanced with a smart player who is able to control his/her pet to take the damage.
I'm not bashing any of the other classes but no class simply comes close in awesomeness to the Veno! But this is where the problem begins...
To all you new people though, as a warning, you may not want to play as a veno because this class is very numerous in-game and may not be needed in many teams. this class' obvious overpoweredness, has saturated the game to the extent that I once saw a full venomancer squad of lvl 19s doing FB19... and succeed (but that's not the point). Classes that are sought after at the moment (that you many consider playing because it will offer a more balanced game) would be barbarian and cleric, which are pretty cool classes, which are more team oriented. Probably in the long run they will also offer the most diverse game experience (not that venos don't play a crucial role in squads).
In short, if you are just joining PWI: as a class to begin with, take:
1) Cleric
2) barbarian
3) anything else
4) venomancer
No joke, cause the second you start a veno. You...will...be...hooked...
b:cold*
b:faint (Sub Zero!)
b:faint (Sub Zero!)
Post edited by Myish - Sanctuary on
0
Comments
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Veno's are made for soloing... yes.
But the advantages of the class stops here. They aren't needed in teams later on because they have very little AOE capabilities. At later levels they loose in pvp over almost any class... even clerics.
The main advantace of a veno is his/her pet... but compared to a team play its actualy slow leveling. You can't compare the killing speed of a veno to that of a team with barbarian, mage, archer, cleric etc. In pvp... against another player who is smart enough to forget the pet the veno falls prety quickly because of the low hp.
If a veno aggros more than 1 mob it starts having problems as a pet can keep aggro on for only one, max 2 monsters.
Every tipe of players can compete a fb19 with a team full of lvl 19's. Think when the servers start... no1 is higher... how do they complete it?
Trust me... every class is balanced in a way and every class needs the other to survive later on.0 -
Perhaps, but this still doesn't explain the oversaturation of venos in-game. (too many b:cry lol)b:cold*
b:faint (Sub Zero!)0 -
Perhaps there are just a lot of people in the game who like soloing?
They are apparently also great for making money, so another reason they are so common might be that people make venomancer alts for moneymaking purposes.0 -
Quetesh - Lost City wrote: »Veno's are made for soloing... yes.
But the advantages of the class stops here. They aren't needed in teams later on because they have very little AOE capabilities. At later levels they loose in pvp over almost any class... even clerics.
The main advantace of a veno is his/her pet... but compared to a team play its actualy slow leveling. You can't compare the killing speed of a veno to that of a team with barbarian, mage, archer, cleric etc. In pvp... against another player who is smart enough to forget the pet the veno falls prety quickly because of the low hp.
If a veno aggros more than 1 mob it starts having problems as a pet can keep aggro on for only one, max 2 monsters.
I disagree.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Yourmom - Lost City wrote: »I disagree.
I agree with your disagreement b:pleasedb:cold*
b:faint (Sub Zero!)0 -
A pet can keep an agro on a lot of monsters. Sometimes I have it tanking 3 or 4 if I get into a jiffy.
And have you ever been attacked by a Flesh Ream?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I have experienced this too. If you have to, your pet can tank up not just a couple of enemies but sometimes up to 4 if you are smart and can balance your offence and pet heals. As i said at the top of the thread, a smart pet handler can overcome most difficulties that would otherwise be fatal to someone who is less experienced.b:cold*
b:faint (Sub Zero!)0 -
Quetesh - Lost City wrote: »But the advantages of the class stops here. They aren't needed in teams later on because they have very little AOE capabilities.
Not everyone wants to spend $50 / month - or more - on a game.The main advantace of a veno is his/her pet... but compared to a team play its actualy slow leveling.
I'd certainly hope that a full team can work faster then a solo venomancer with her pet.Trust me... every class is balanced in a way and every class needs the other to survive later on.
That I believe to be true.Myish - Sanctuary wrote: »Perhaps, but this still doesn't explain the oversaturation of venos in-game.
Mine is one of four in a young guild of 30 characters.0 -
I agree that the Veno is one of if not the most powerful class in the game. And who cares about the Zhen parties? Of course they had to offset the Veno's amazing power somewhere. We get penalized 60+ because we level MUCH faster than any other job out there unless they're burning thru charms like crazy. And of course you're going to lose in PVP, but 99% of the people that choose a Veno don't do it to PVP.
1. Veno is the best solo class in the game.
2. Veno is the only class that can pull one mob from a group of mobs. (Luring)
3. Veno is the only mage that can tank boss fights. (Golems/Frogs)
4. Veno is the best class for making farming and making coin. (No potion or charm cost)
5. Venos can group together and take mobs down easier than the same number of PC's most of the time.0 -
Aenil - Heavens Tear wrote: »I agree that the Veno is one of if not the most powerful class in the game. And who cares about the Zhen parties? Of course they had to offset the Veno's amazing power somewhere. We get penalized 60+ because we level MUCH faster than any other job out there unless they're burning thru charms like crazy. And of course you're going to lose in PVP, but 99% of the people that choose a Veno don't do it to PVP.
1. Veno is the best solo class in the game. True
2. Veno is the only class that can pull one mob from a group of mobs. (Luring) True
3. Veno is the only mage that can tank boss fights. (Golems/Frogs) True, but not the only one who can tank, just out of mages...
4. Veno is the best class for making farming and making coin. (No potion or charm cost) True, thats why I have a Veno as a second job... to fuel my cleric
5. Venos can group together and take mobs down easier than the same number of PC's most of the time.Not true. A cleric kills a mob faster then a veno, so does a mage. Not sure for the other classes
As I said before. Veno's excell at some things while other classes fill the gaps from veno... etc.
Each class is unique in some way. For example the cleric is the only one who can heal. The mage has the best damage in-game. Barbarian can tank like no one else. Blademaster is good at damage dealing and also for tanking.
So... it's true that veno makes more money and levels faster in early levels... but then it becomes weaker later on.
And also you must be interested in pvp if you are in a pvp server or want to participate in Teritorry wars.
If you just want to solo then there are countless of single players games out there
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Alrighty then... Guess I should say 'most' don't do it to PVP. :P Now let's look at the little comments you put on my quote that show you can't either read or understand.
1. Veno is the best solo class in the game. True
2. Veno is the only class that can pull one mob from a group of mobs. (Luring) True
3. Veno is the only mage that can tank boss fights. (Golems/Frogs) True, but not the only one who can tank, just out of mages... - Look at the bold text. Only MAGE. lol...
4. Veno is the best class for making farming and making coin. (No potion or charm cost) True, thats why I have a Veno as a second job... to fuel my cleric - Veno's the best money-making job. I see a true and a sentence after it.. Oh, were you trying to say that your cleric eats thru charms and potions like nobody's business? Guess that adds even more weight to my point. XD
5. Venos can group together and take mobs down easier than the same number of PC's most of the time.Not true. A cleric kills a mob faster then a veno, so does a mage. Not sure for the other classes - A cleric can kill mobs faster THAN a Veno? I'm not so sure about that... Maybe if a Veno hasn't upgraded their skills since level one and hasn't put any stats into MAG. And even then, if the Veno has a decent pet, I'd STILL be hard pressed to believe it. But that's not what this point said now was it? It said they can take them down EASIER. Since when does EASIER equal FASTER? In my book something is EASY when it takes little effort. That means no risk to the PC's and less downtime/cost.
Seriously... Why don't you go back to your Cleric forum? You have nothing to offer here.0 -
First of all:
for point 3 I was actualy underlineing that what you said. Out of mages. And that makes it not so important.
for point 4: you think I am trying to contradict you which actualy is not true. I was expressing my opinion.
5. Let me give you 2 examples:
a> i just turned lvl 22 and was killing some envenom mobs outside archosaur. I had a lvl 22 golem summoned and all attack skills upgraded for my level. I started attacking a mob just at the same time as a cleric doing the same quest as me. And guess what... by the time my golem got to the mob it was dead. Conclusion... cleric did a tornado and a plume shot while I did one venomous scarab and was almost done casting the second. No doubt he outdamaged me.
b> take the damage percentage out of the skills and see the damage difference.
For your last sencese... seriously... you only know how to send people away? How about accepting other people's oppinions before starting flaming or ridiculising them? How about if you know they are wrong explaining and exemplifing your points. How about stopping to think that only you are right.
Actualy... then arguing with you I prefer to talk to someone that has the decency and respect of having a normal conversation that will not lead to a flame war or to an dumb ending that sounds like: "Seriously... Why don't you go back to your Cleric forum? You have nothing to offer here."0 -
Quetesh - Lost City wrote: »
5. Let me give you 2 examples:
a> i just turned lvl 22 and was killing some envenom mobs outside archosaur. I had a lvl 22 golem summoned and all attack skills upgraded for my level. I started attacking a mob just at the same time as a cleric doing the same quest as me. And guess what... by the time my golem got to the mob it was dead. Conclusion... cleric did a tornado and a plume shot while I did one venomous scarab and was almost done casting the second. No doubt he outdamaged me.
b> take the damage percentage out of the skills and see the damage difference.
a. Go do a damage comparison on a non elemental mob. Not a wood mob that is strong against wood attack skills and weak to metal attack skills. Also, throw an iron scarab and then a venom scarab. There is a slight delay to spamming venom over and over, as there is a slight cooldown. Throw an iron first and it will go a little bit faster.
b. Damage percentage is a big part of the skills. Every class has skills like that, with a base value, and then a percentage added on. They are all balanced slightly differently, so you can't just take off the percentage and look at the base damage. That's not even a real comparison.
Also, Aenil said mobS. I hate to be nitpicky, but there is a difference between one mob and a hundred. One mob I can pop a fury burst and do double damage to it until it's dead. A hundred mobs takes heals and mana refilling into account. If you manage it well, you can kill continuously with a venomancer without hieros or potions once you have the heal, mana refill, and intersoul skills.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Yourmom - Lost City wrote: »a. Go do a damage comparison on a non elemental mob. Not a wood mob that is strong against wood attack skills and weak to metal attack skills. Also, throw an iron scarab and then a venom scarab. There is a slight delay to spamming venom over and over, as there is a slight cooldown. Throw an iron first and it will go a little bit faster.
b. Damage percentage is a big part of the skills. Every class has skills like that, with a base value, and then a percentage added on. They are all balanced slightly differently, so you can't just take off the percentage and look at the base damage. That's not even a real comparison.
Also, Aenil said mobS. I hate to be nitpicky, but there is a difference between one mob and a hundred. One mob I can pop a fury burst and do double damage to it until it's dead. A hundred mobs takes heals and mana refilling into account. If you manage it well, you can kill continuously with a venomancer without hieros or potions once you have the heal, mana refill, and intersoul skills. Its very true. Other classes eat mana and hieros like crazy... I never argued with that. I was talking about base damage which I know a cleric has higher. I was not talking about double damage or anything else. Just base damage. Comparing for example with same weps and same amount of mag points.
Anyway. I have no intention of starting a flame war or a contradictory discussion. I will try to compare the skills some more later and see what i come with.0 -
Quetesh - Lost City wrote: »... just at the same time as a cleric doing the same quest as me. And guess what... by the time my golem got to the mob it was dead. ...
You cast one, they two spells, you don't really know which level they were, or their skills, vulnerability of the mob might play a role, how much mana their combo used ... all in all, your experience doesn't say anything about either class.
Your veno tactics need some refinement, as was pointed out, open with an Ironwood Scarab, which lowers the mobs defense against you pet's attacks and does more damage then the followup, Venomous Scarab, if needed. Depending on the mob type it may be better to let the pet finish them off while you collect loot and save - or even regen - some mana.Conclusion... cleric did a tornado and a plume shot while I did one venomous scarab and was almost done casting the second. No doubt he outdamaged me.
b> take the damage percentage out of the skills and see the damage difference.
No surprise as he got in two shots while you hit with only one.
Plume Shot would be the clerics Venomous Scarab and does (at that level) physical damage equal to base magic damage + 70% of weapon damage + 375.2. Venomous Scarab yields base magic damage + 75% of weapon damage + 356.5. With 18 damage vs 5% it depends on the weapon but at that level Plume Shot likely hits a few points harder, but at the expense of 50 mana vs 33, or 150%
Great Cyclone does (at that level) metal damage equal to base magic damage + 70% of weapon damage + 391.6. Ironwood Scarab yields base magic damage + 160% of weapon damage + 342.1. ... 90% vs 50 ... and Ironwood is slightly cheaper with 37.6 vs 39 mana. The seconadry effect seem appropriate and effective for each class.
When the cleric finishes the mob with one of these spells it will be with far more damage then needed, the venomancer can save herself the mana of the last spell the cleric uses, thus further reducing mana usage and increasing long term efficiency.0 -
Aenil - Heavens Tear wrote: »3. Veno is the only mage that can tank boss fights. (Golems/Frogs)
That's the only one of the list I disagree with. With bosses that use magic a wizard or cleric can force them to fight at a distance and easily tank.0 -
Thanks for those numbers
So a cleric does have slightly more damage.
I completly agree that a cleric or a mage burn alot more mana then veno and that veno is cheaper and more efficient to use. I never said otherwise 0 -
lolQuetesh... First, learn how to spell. Second, learn how to read.
No one said the cleric has more damage. The only thing that WAS said was that a cleric can expend more mana for a possibility at more damage which mainly depends on your weapon damage.0 -
Quetesh - Lost City wrote: »Thanks for those numbers
So a cleric does have slightly more damage.
It rather depends on the weapon and the skill, the Veno gets a higher return of the weapon damage. With level appropriate weapons Ironwood does more damage the Cyclone, but Plume hits a bit harder then Venomous. From the damage numbers it doesn't look like either has any advantage over the other, but for practical efficiency, lower mana use means you can kill more critters in an hour, thus gain more xp, more loot and complete more quests in the same time. This (and the pet) will be a large factor to why Veno's level up and make coin faster.0 -
And you add in the fact that if a Cleric doesn't kill the mob before it gets to them, they have a high chance of eating dirt. A Veno on the other hand has a personal tank that keeps them from taking any damage AND adds to their own damage total.0
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I give up. You are under the impresion that I belive that the Cleric is better than Veno at hunting. Which I don't. With a pet a Veno has more damage and is alot better at killing mobs then other classes. I NEVER said I don't agree with that. It is actualy the best for solo...
A cleric is made for parties. Made to heal and buff and not kill that much.
I ONLY SAID that when we both targeted the same mob it died before my pet got to it and it took more damage from the cleric then from me.
From that sentance we got to this. Oh and Aenil... flaming only makes you look like **** 0 -
In short. Venos rule. lolb:cold*
b:faint (Sub Zero!)0 -
It's true. Venomancers are quite addicting. My first character was a venomancer, but after seeing thier popularity, I attempted to move onto a less abundant class. I tried Wizard, Archer, Cleric, and Swordmaster but I didn 't find any of them as fun as a venomancer. So I started a new pure-mage build [9int-1str/2levels] venomancer and it's by far the funest class in terms of soloing, quests, and custumization [lots of pets to chose from].0
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well i train faster with archer than venomacer
+ i don't need to run after drop, now drop coming to me when i shoot them
+ i can handle 2 monsters hitting me(not for long tho, but archers have knockback skill ) what i couldn't with veno
+ i die around 5 times less than i did on veno, so again i save more exp
and at start i didnt chose veno becouse its best or w/e, i just liked pets, but now i found them boring as i had to train wield, flying and water pet so i can do all quests. Just simple archer suits me best 0 -
hmm i almost never die on veno0
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If you know what to do and look for you'll almost never have to worry about being killed. That's true of all classes but veno is a bit more out of harm's way, to make up for this though venos have significantly lower tanking ability when something does happen.0
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There's 2 reasons Veno are the most popular:
1.) A lot of people love to solo and not be party-dependant.
2.) They're the easiest to master. There's just not much to them.
#2 is why most seem to think Venos are overpowered. You can (if you spend enough time figuring it out) master any class and solo efficiently with them. It just takes more dedication and for the most part, more money.
We're living in a world of "I want instant results!" Venos are instant results. So there you go, most popular class by simplicity.
Frankly, I picked Veno for the kitty ears and tail and the pets. When I feel like being my old self, I switch over to my battle cleric.b:bye RETIRED0 -
Lazyluna - Heavens Tear wrote: »There's 2 reasons Veno are the most popular:
1.) A lot of people love to solo and not be party-dependant.
2.) They're the easiest to master. There's just not much to them.
#2 is why most seem to think Venos are overpowered. You can (if you spend enough time figuring it out) master any class and solo efficiently with them. It just takes more dedication and for the most part, more money.
We're living in a world of "I want instant results!" Venos are instant results. So there you go, most popular class by simplicity.
Frankly, I picked Veno for the kitty ears and tail and the pets. When I feel like being my old self, I switch over to my battle cleric.
b:victory I agree. That sounds pretty accurate. I think it's safe to say that if you are new to the MMORPG type games and if you start with a character like the Veno, you will think, "Hey there's nothing to it! I thought the learning curve would be steeper than this." But when you try something else (eg. cleric, barbarian, etc) You suddenly get the feeling that you don't like them because they are harder to play.
I recommend all new players (either to PWI or to MMOs in general) given the choice of an over powered class and a normal type class, take the normal one, cause your mind won't get biased to the easyness of the overpower class.
As an example, I played Guild Wars before PWI and my first chracter was an elementalist which was probably the easiest class to play (simple nuking style). When I tried to switch over to another class, I was struck by how difficult it was to adjust to the other playing styles.
To counter this you have to play a balance of other classes.b:cold*
b:faint (Sub Zero!)0 -
The other reason they're so popular is because most of them are guys in real life >____>;[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
![http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z130/saleniece/ermosa1-1.gif[/SIGPIC]](http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z130/saleniece/ermosa1-1.gif[/SIGPIC]){kind=link}
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