TW change that removes fake guild bidding problem + inflation problem
ultima999
Posts: 80 Arc User
To the GMs and the developers,
Last week's problem with the fake guild bidding is only a start. More problems will come.
Even if the TOS states that fake guild bidding is a violation and can be banned, split guild bidding is not.
A fake guild bid is a bid that results in 10k return (on an occupied land), a split guild bid is any bid that gives > 10k return. Therefore, in order to get away from the "ban", people will just create split guild instead of fake guilds. So problems will continue with the loop hole.
The other problem that you will face is major inflation. There are 44 lands total. Two of them are level 1 (pays 30 mil/week), 4 of them are level 2 (pays 20 mil/week), and 38 of them are level 3 (pays 10 mil/week).
Once all the level 3 lands are taken, every week, the system will pump 380 million gold into the game. That's every week. Every month, there will be >1.5 billion gold dumped into the game.
If there are 380 mil gold getting dumped into the game per week, how much gold is going out per week? Not more than 100 mil. So every week there is a surplus of >200 mil in the game.... this is the cause of inflation. (Note that gold from quests, selling loots to NPC are not even accounted for. These only come from TW).
How to fix the inflation problem + fake guild bid problem?
By changing the payout of TW. The change should be as followed:
1. The first week payout will remain the same... at 10 mil max down to 10k depending on the "average level" of the guild.
2. Any payout to the same guild owner at subsequent weeks will be only maximum 1 mil down to 10k depending on the "average level" of the guild
3. If the land has a new owner, then the payout is reset to #1 (ie: 1st week payout = 10 mil max)
This will reduce the inflation 10 folds, as well as remove the fake guild bidding problem completely.
Last week's problem with the fake guild bidding is only a start. More problems will come.
Even if the TOS states that fake guild bidding is a violation and can be banned, split guild bidding is not.
A fake guild bid is a bid that results in 10k return (on an occupied land), a split guild bid is any bid that gives > 10k return. Therefore, in order to get away from the "ban", people will just create split guild instead of fake guilds. So problems will continue with the loop hole.
The other problem that you will face is major inflation. There are 44 lands total. Two of them are level 1 (pays 30 mil/week), 4 of them are level 2 (pays 20 mil/week), and 38 of them are level 3 (pays 10 mil/week).
Once all the level 3 lands are taken, every week, the system will pump 380 million gold into the game. That's every week. Every month, there will be >1.5 billion gold dumped into the game.
If there are 380 mil gold getting dumped into the game per week, how much gold is going out per week? Not more than 100 mil. So every week there is a surplus of >200 mil in the game.... this is the cause of inflation. (Note that gold from quests, selling loots to NPC are not even accounted for. These only come from TW).
How to fix the inflation problem + fake guild bid problem?
By changing the payout of TW. The change should be as followed:
1. The first week payout will remain the same... at 10 mil max down to 10k depending on the "average level" of the guild.
2. Any payout to the same guild owner at subsequent weeks will be only maximum 1 mil down to 10k depending on the "average level" of the guild
3. If the land has a new owner, then the payout is reset to #1 (ie: 1st week payout = 10 mil max)
This will reduce the inflation 10 folds, as well as remove the fake guild bidding problem completely.
Post edited by ultima999 on
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Comments
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Should go in the suggestion forum.
And I don't really like the sound of this.
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Under that system, a guild holding territory would only have a maximum income of 1m per week, while a conquering guild would reap 10m for conquering. What's to stop guilds getting buddy-buddy and trading territories with mock wars every week to keep that 10m per week rolling in?"there is still much to be done"0
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Kingofhearts - Heavens Tear wrote: »Under that system, a guild holding territory would only have a maximum income of 1m per week, while a conquering guild would reap 10m for conquering. What's to stop guilds getting buddy-buddy and trading territories with mock wars every week to keep that 10m per week rolling in?
Ooo, you're smart. b:chuckle0 -
inflation isnt that much of a problem, think how many people that money is spread over0
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Kingofhearts - Heavens Tear wrote: »Under that system, a guild holding territory would only have a maximum income of 1m per week, while a conquering guild would reap 10m for conquering. What's to stop guilds getting buddy-buddy and trading territories with mock wars every week to keep that 10m per week rolling in?
This is exactly what people will do; but the good thing is that each week, a guild can only bid on 1 land only.
So let's say 2 guilds each own 10 lands. Each week, they can have 2 mock fights and get 20 millions + 18 mil (from the remaining 18 lands). So there's a total of 38 mil dumping in the game.
Compare that to the current system where 20 lands = 200 mils dumping into the game
wench wrote:inflation isnt that much of a problem, think how many people that money is spread over
You forgot that the 380+mil dumping into the game is PER WEEK. Do you get 1000+ new players per week?
After 6 months, when the number of players is "stable". The 380+ mil per week is still coming.0 -
well so guilds will split up into smaller guilds with alts, shoving around 20-30 territories per week just to max income.
there WILL be a way to still get 10mil out of nearly every territory.
And for money leaving PW:
Daily quest is around 25k at lvl60+
Worldquest can be around 100k/day at 70+ if you teleport most of the time.
Repairfees for most classes are high.
Hierograms cost a lot, well ok, that has to be supplied by players, so lets say people buy pots instead: pots are expensive.
-list goes on-
a lot of gold is leaving the game each week and yes, there will still be inflation, that happens, its normal, as long as it is in some regulated limits and not lile 10% per week.0 -
Ara - Lost City wrote: »well so guilds will split up into smaller guilds with alts, shoving around 20-30 territories per week just to max income.
there WILL be a way to still get 10mil out of nearly every territory.
You forgot about real guilds fighting each other. If the guilds split up into smaller guild, they will have a hard time defending itself when another real guild wants to take their land. So yes, the big guilds can split into smaller guilds to maximize the 10mil return, but they will suffer from attacks from other guilds. This creates all-together a new strategy for TW fun.
Remember, the proposed change will, at worst, dump the same amount of gold as the current system (ie: if there are 44 guilds exchanging 44 lands per week to get the maximum return).
But in practice, there will not be 44 guilds exchanging 44 lands per week... or rather 38 guilds exchanging 38 lands per week. The new change will reduce the massive influx of gold from 5-10x compared to the current system.
NOT only that, it eliminates fake guild bidding problem completely because the guild owner loses money when fake guild bidding to keep the land. It also promotes more "REAL" TW fights; ie: more fun.And for money leaving PW:
Daily quest is around 25k at lvl60+
Worldquest can be around 100k/day at 70+ if you teleport most of the time.
Repairfees for most classes are high.
Hierograms cost a lot, well ok, that has to be supplied by players, so lets say people buy pots instead: pots are expensive.
-list goes on-
a lot of gold is leaving the game each week and yes, there will still be inflation, that happens, its normal, as long as it is in some regulated limits and not lile 10% per week.
All that gold can be covered with gold you get from quests, as well as loots selling to NPC.
One way to see it is... if there is no TW system in the game, can you still level up to 9x? Of course you can. You can still grind and sell DQs to NPC to pay for daily quests, potions, etc... You can still ZHEN party since Heiros (charms) come in the game by real money not game coins.
Of course, the time it takes to level 9x is a bit slower because you don't have the excess money from TW for teleports to do DQ quests, and other traveling quests.0 -
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Check out ForsakenX 's sig thread O_O
Enrage - We Eat.0 -
The OP also forgets to note the cost of bidding on land and the money needed to do the GvG TW. Let's not also forget that the game's money sinks are still quite viable, and that will eat away at land owning guild's money. You say they level slower if they don't get as much money, and this is true. Why do people take land again? For the pretty colors on the map, or for the rewards that come with it?
This game's been out for four years, and I'd assume if it was really that unbalancing the developers would've taken it out by now (like they did with venomancer egg prices).
If you really want to cripple a large part of the game at later levels they should make the mobs in TW even harder than they are now...0 -
Land should not give money, period.
It should give something that will actually REDUCE INFLATION: mats, gear, notes that can exchange for cs gold, charms, etc.
Something like the treasure boxes in Ragnarok Online, completely random.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Zoe is so full of it, that he must be Karmelia.0 -
Ara - Lost City wrote: »well so guilds will split up into smaller guilds with alts, shoving around 20-30 territories per week just to max income.
there WILL be a way to still get 10mil out of nearly every territory.
And for money leaving PW:
Daily quest is around 25k at lvl60+
Worldquest can be around 100k/day at 70+ if you teleport most of the time.
Repairfees for most classes are high.
Hierograms cost a lot, well ok, that has to be supplied by players, so lets say people buy pots instead: pots are expensive.
-list goes on-
a lot of gold is leaving the game each week and yes, there will still be inflation, that happens, its normal, as long as it is in some regulated limits and not lile 10% per week.
that pretty much sums it up. 'nough said...0 -
81+ stone quest costs 71k a day, world quest 100-130k really. Spending 200k a day on dailies alone that's 1.4mil a week per person. A guild with a lot of land can barely dish out that kind of salary to all their members. Not to mention how skills easily cost 500k-1million at these levels, this so called inflation hardly does exist.
Most of the DQs and gold you get from leveling are spent on potions and charms so there is no extra money there.
The high amount of money given from each land is very necessary.0 -
who cares for inflation??
http://forum1.onlinewelten.com/showthread.php?t=189333
if u can read german go ahead. its about the current state of the MY-EN server Oracle. which is pretty much dominated by 2 guilds so they make the prices for almost everything on the server by just dominating every farmspot etc.
see u in 2month0 -
I'm going to look at the bright side. At least a majority of the players will be Super Rich.
I kinda like the though of having 300+ mil in my inv at lv 50b:thanks
Note:
*please dont point out how what i'm saying will ruin the game, i know. I just like money!*0 -
The split guilds would merely overbid to push out any counterbidding guild, as they do now. It doesn't matter how many people are in each "split guild", as one person pulling a catapult can take a territory if no one is defending it.
OP's idea is illogical, and works neither in concept nor realization.
Realistic solution:
Bids happen on two days.
The first day, every guild marks the territories they're thinking of bidding on, and puts up the minimum bid for those territories as a placeholder fee.
Between the first day and the second day, a GM cruises the lists and cherrypicks all the fake guilds out (average level of the attacking guild's top 80 players is more than 19 below those of the defending guild, etc.); and all the placeholder fees are returned.
The second day, only the guilds which still remain on the list for each territory may bidwar for it.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
i doubt they even can change anything major on the game like the TW system
mb reduce the gold you get per week, but not such complex systems like the one advertised in the first post here0 -
To those who does not believe in inflation,
It's part of the game. It's real and it sucks. You cannot remove inflation from any game. You can slow it down but you cannot remove it.
PW-USA opens in September. This is just abit more than a month ago; and you already have experienced inflation at its infancy.
Other servers who have been operating longer, like Japan server, Chinese server, and the more recent Malaysian servers. If you do not believe in inflation, simply make a level 1 toon on these server and see for yourself the prices of everyday's items.
Remember that all these versions are the same; they only differs in the localization. I am not asking you to compare the item mall's price since these depends on the currency exchange. Compare the in-game items, like DQs, materials for crafting, manufactured weapons/armors, etc.
Inflation is real people. You have to accept it. If you still want to enjoy this game for 2 years or longer, then you have to slow down the inflation as per my suggestion in the OP. Otherwise, in 8 months or so, the gold inflation in this server will suffer the same fate as the Malaysian's servers.
Responding to the costs of "daily" quests for level 70+, the only real costs are Eunice/Rosalind for the stones. The cost of teleportations are optional and you know it. If are gonna include the costs of all the travel quests then don't forget the Dragon Seeking Quests. The cost to do them is infinite since there are no time restriction for them - only gold for teleports and gold to buy DQs from players.0 -
To those who does not believe in inflation,
It's part of the game. It's real and it sucks. You cannot remove inflation from any game. You can slow it down but you cannot remove it.
There is a big difference between inflation and the problems caused by it. Item prices will always change (even drastically) depending on what majority of the players need, the problem is not the supply/demand driven market, it's the fact that the amount of money poured into the game for _nothing_ (doesn't matter if you fight for the land or not, win or lose, the money is still being poured into the game) is high enough to cause the price of everything to inflate into insanity in a relatively short time.
If you want to see a game where the economy actually works, go try EVE Online, the economy system was designed by an economist (or whatever his title is) and it works like a charm.
To me this kind of inflationengine (called Territory Wars) looks to be a way of purposefully making prices so high that new players have no other choise than to either ignore the market completely (gather everything you need by yourself, doesn't work very well in the long run) or use alot of real money to get coins from selling gold. To the players, this means that the economy will inflate with accelerating speed which will pretty much cripple the economy system to a point where it can no longer even be called an economy system, rather a buy-gold-or-you-can't-buy-squat market system.
Of course, the developers have all interests in that, so why the hell would they even want to change that? That's pretty much the only thing (other than people who don't have time to grind or are lazy) keeping people buying gold even though they don't want anything from cash shop.0 -
Both sides of this Arguement are making good points. Sadly they are all missing one or two crucial points. Firstly, any economic plan suffers if the 'potential' exists for one group to attain/maintain majority control. But probably more important the Staff running PWI cannot change core files, any change to TW or TW Bidding must go through PWE in Bejing.
Suggestions are all well and fine, and if you can express them in a rationaly convincing fashion they 'might' be sent to Bejing for consideration. Just remember the power of the people running this version 'is limited'.Perhaps the greatest secret to getting along with others lies in learning to respect their opinion(s) even while you disagree with them.0 -
Naris - Heavens Tear wrote: »The OP also forgets to note the cost of bidding on land and the money needed to do the GvG TW. Let's not also forget that the game's money sinks are still quite viable, and that will eat away at land owning guild's money. You say they level slower if they don't get as much money, and this is true. Why do people take land again? For the pretty colors on the map, or for the rewards that come with it?
This game's been out for four years, and I'd assume if it was really that unbalancing the developers would've taken it out by now (like they did with venomancer egg prices).
If you really want to cripple a large part of the game at later levels they should make the mobs in TW even harder than they are now...
I'm not sure what you mean by the cost of bidding the land. The gold from those biddings are not lost. Gold from the biddings are not gone from the server unless they are bids from fake guilds (ie: 10k return).
The proposed change do not remove the rewards from TW. In fact, the rewards are more fair. If land is conquered, the guild is paid full amount (according to the guild level to prevent fake guild bidding). If there is no bid, the reward should be less because there is no war.
The whole changes makes it fair for everyone; it removes all problems associated with fake guild bidding; it also reduces inflation by a significant amount.
It's a win, win win for everyone.0 -
I fail to see how this would cause inflation the way things are now. If I was getting that much money a week, I would charge LESS for everything I sold, or even give a ton of stuff for free. I already have all that money, why do I need to charge more for everything?Main characters
Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
Sage Barbarian Malego - 910 -
This plan sounds just as bad as US Congress dumping 700bill into the economy. It's silly to have to take your allies land every week to keep max earnings..0
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I supposed you prefer the major inflation to come in game, as well as another great depression in real life to come without that 700 billion bill.0
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There is no prob in any of the other versions of the game, fake bidding is "underhanded" but with the current ban system in place I doubt it would be a major issue.
As for "inflation" it doesnt matter if you get land or not, everyone is going to get richer the longer they play. So even without getting any money off TW once players start to hit the 80's they get quite a lot of money from griding alone and there is no longer many skills to upgrade either. So in essence all that TW does is speed up the "equilibrium" stage. So instead of it taking a year for a 1000+ players to reach lvl 80-89 you now have a system where in 6mnts time a bunch of lvl 60-80players earn enough money from TW to be on the same level.
The ONLY magro gripe I've always had with the current system is that a large group of ppl can all gang up and form a really strong guild or 2 and take over the entire worldmap dominating the reast of the guilds.
Of course if 20 guils all attack at once somone is going to win but still I feel that there should be a limitation on the amount of lands a guild can take.0
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