Poll:Permabans from bugging bosses?

thom · September 2008

Okay, since that other thread was closed where this discussion was going on, need to make a new one.

Please, dont post screenshots of anyone doing this, post those to GM's,not to forums.

So, what do you think about the current penalties for exploiting a bug,specially bugging bosses like Gouf.

Do you think the current system,where GM's give a warning for first time when caught and maybe ban(dont have sure info about this) on second time is sufficient and enough to prevent exploiting of bugs?

Because bosses like Gouf only are needed to kill once, i dont think this penalty is efficient enough or that it prevents people from doing this.

In my opinion, people who are caught,should be permabanned on first attempt. Because exploiting a bug on a boss like Gouf is always done intentionally and is very hard to do by accident,so there wouldnt be any questions about whether quilty or not.

What do you think?

thom · September 2008

Nobody has anything to say?

Zehethos - Heavens Tear · September 2008

thom wrote: »

Nobody has anything to say?

No, we find this thread usless.

thom · September 2008

Zehethos - Heavens Tear wrote: »

No, we find this thread usless.

Why so? Would be interesting to hear opinions opposing this then.

Btw, have you thought of getting help for your multiple personalities?

Nalle - Lost City · September 2008

There definately should be bigger penalty for bugging the bosses than just warning..its just same as giving them another chance to bug it.

And cause it is a BUG, and taking advantage of bugs is illegal..GM's give those bug users penalties that shows you guys are serious.

Zoe - Heavens Tear · September 2008

I have something to say.

I agree with this. It would be better though, for them to fix the bug and not tell anyone about it. Watch players try to bug Gouf for example and all die since it no longer works. Actually I saw a failed bugging attempt there earlier that did result in everyone dying.

No tolarence policy. You bug, you get a perma-ban. No way around it. This is how it should be. Like you said, you won't use these bugs by accident. People do them knowing very well what they are doing.

Just today on fb 29 during 2 runs a player got mad at me becauase not only did I refuse to bug the boss, I told them I'd report anyone who did.

thom · September 2008

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I have something to say.

I agree with this. It would be better though, for them to fix the bug and not tell anyone about it. Watch players try to bug Gouf for example and all die since it no longer works. Actually I saw a failed bugging attempt there earlier that did result in everyone dying.

No tolarence policy. You bug, you get a perma-ban. No way around it. This is how it should be. Like you said, you won't use these bugs by accident. People do them knowing very well what they are doing.

Just today on fb 29 during 2 runs a player got mad at me becauase not only did I refuse to bug the boss, I told them I'd report anyone who did.

Hahaha thats even greater if they really fixed it.

Fireblossom - Heavens Tear · September 2008

I agree with Zoe: fix the bug and don't tell anyone. But, make fixing the bug a top priority.

As for exploiting them, I've spent a lot of hours on several games and only heard about the bug after it was fixed, never getting to try it just once just to see what the big deal is. What can be so bad about trying it just once? Exploits are pretty rare, aren't they? And only once, not going back a dozen times. So it may be self-serving, but I say one warning. I'd say one warning ever, but what about when the bug can be exploited accidentally through just normal gameplay? So I say one warning for each exploit as a matter of general policy. That should be enough to keep honest people pretty much honest, get rid of the dishonest people, and give people some room to find these bugs in the first place. I think finding bugs is good but fixing them is even better.

Cat - Heavens Tear · September 2008

Zehethos - Heavens Tear wrote: »

No, we find this thread usless.

I agree in the sense that im tired of watching people kick the dead horse. If it was a bug were it was seriously determental to gameplay, or people were getting rich/getting super duper exp/etc from it I would be more concerned.

Fireblossom - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I agree with Zoe: fix the bug and don't tell anyone. But, make fixing the bug a top priority.

As for exploiting them, I've spent a lot of hours on several games and only heard about the bug after it was fixed, never getting to try it just once just to see what the big deal is. What can be so bad about trying it just once? Exploits are pretty rare, aren't they? And only once, not going back a dozen times. So it may be self-serving, but I say one warning. I'd say one warning ever, but what about when the bug can be exploited accidentally through just normal gameplay? So I say one warning for each exploit as a matter of general policy. That should be enough to keep honest people pretty much honest, get rid of the dishonest people, and give people some room to find these bugs in the first place. I think finding bugs is good but fixing them is even better.

I also have to say Im against the insta ban. Players should be given a warning first. There is no clear rule set posted on the website nor in the game. 90% of the gaming population on the game doesnt read or even visit the forums.

There are plenty of new players who may see someone else doing it and not know its wrong, figure it out for themselves and not know its wrong, or even be told by someone you can do it and still not know its wrong. Its not fair to instantly ban those players in situations like that. Remember someone had to figure out how to do it in the very beginning. There is nothing stopping another new player who knows absolutely nothig about the situation from discovering the same thing by mistake or accident or on purpose. MMORPGs are all about stratagies, planning, coming up with new ideas to beat things. You cant punish players for this, IF it is not clearly posted somewhere where ALL players can see it easily without having to access some random thread in a forum to find out what they are doing or what they discovered was wrong.

Yukiko - Lost City · September 2008

Cat - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I agree in the sense that im tired of watching people kick the dead horse. If it was a bug were it was seriously determental to gameplay, or people were getting rich/getting super duper exp/etc from it I would be more concerned.

I also have to say Im against the insta ban. Players should be given a warning first. There is no clear rule set posted on the website nor in the game. 90% of the gaming population on the game doesnt read or even visit the forums.

There are plenty of new players who may see someone else doing it and not know its wrong, figure it out for themselves and not know its wrong, or even be told by someone you can do it and still not know its wrong. Its not fair to instantly ban those players in situations like that. Remember someone had to figure out how to do it in the very beginning. There is nothing stopping another new player who knows absolutely nothig about the situation from discovering the same thing by mistake or accident or on purpose. MMORPGs are all about stratagies, planning, coming up with new ideas to beat things. You cant punish players for this, IF it is not clearly posted somewhere where ALL players can see it easily without having to access some random thread in a forum to find out what they are doing or what they discovered was wrong.

Wrong, Cat. The ToS clearly states that exploiting the game code/mob AI is against the rules.

Just an FYI, it's quite apparent that GM's have no intentions of actually enforcing this rule. I watched a guild use a terrain bug with darkeye, a GM was called to stop them but instead just stood there and watched them do it too... with NO warning and NO ban.

Cat - Heavens Tear · September 2008

Yukiko - Lost City wrote: »

Wrong, Cat. The ToS clearly states that exploiting the game code/mob AI is against the rules.

Just an FYI, it's quite apparent that GM's have no intentions of actually enforcing this rule. I watched a guild use a terrain bug with darkeye, a GM was called to stop them but instead just stood there and watched them do it too... with NO warning and NO ban.

My point is for a new player how do you PROVE they were exploiting the game or knew what they were doing? The TOS doesnt state that.

Gouf is the most common complaint so Ill use it. I often attack things from the air, on my WF and on my Elf. Just depends how bored I am, sometimes Im already flying around and just see a mob I need killed that could be in the way of a mat I need etc.

Same thing could be said for gouf. Lets assume Im a totally new player to PWI. Im pretty much a loner as Im new to MMORPGS. I havent joined a guild or really made any friends in game yet. I get the quest to kill Gouf. So I fly around on my Veno till I find him. Once I find him, Im cautious, I dont know how tough he is, what his aggro range is etc. So I sit above him on my flyer thinking. Well the most obvious thing to do is test him out. TO be extra safe I call out my flying pet and send him down to attack. I have now inadvertenantly bugged him. But Im new to the game, I have never seen this before or seen anyone fight the boss before. Im not even aware this is something that doesnt normally happen. After all you do fight Kun Kun at lvl 30 ish, a lvl 100 boss that doesnt fight back at all.

I could assume its just another boss like KunKun and thats why its not fighting back. I kill it and next thing I know I have been banned? I wouldnt understand why at all nor would I think its fair.

You need to look at this from a new player point of view and what previous experience in the game shows us. The game does show us by KunKun that there are bosses that dont fight back. No new player is thrust into the game with the complete knowledge of what bosses are and are not supposed to do. If you have bosses that didnt fight back before, you have no reason to assume as a new player that a boss later down the road not fighting back is exploiting or bugging anything.

Do you get what Im saying now. Thats why I said:

You cant punish players for this, IF it is not clearly posted somewhere where ALL players can see it easily without having to access some random thread in a forum to find out what they are doing or what they discovered was wrong.

It needs to be CLEARLY posted. Just saying exploiting Mob AI isnt clear. And it could be done by accident as shown in my post above. Which is why warnings should be given first.

Yukiko - Lost City · September 2008

While I understand what you are saying, in that scenario logic would tell you that something isn't quite right.

It isn't new people doing this, it's experienced players who are well and truly aware that what they are doing is wrong.

When you hit Kunkun, he runs away from you. When you bug Gouf, he just stands there and takes the hits. I find it hard to believe that any person would come to the conclusion that the game intended for a CULTIVATION boss to be just that easy.

Making excuses for people such as the above is just ridiculous, particularly when you see the same people bugging other bosses in different ways. What makes it worse is when you see a GM standing there, refusing to do anything (this includes talking) while the players continue about killing the boss. I am reluctant to discuss the actual occurrence of this for obvious reasons.

If something seems too good to be true, it probably is.

kyri · September 2008

its beta .. end of story, if it is a finished game version then it shouldnt happen. And an announcement that everyone reads is necessary. Honestly the only people on here complaining are the people that are not new to this game.

A bug is a Bug and unless its officially announced other than forums then an instant permanent ban would result in alot of lost revenue for the company. And the whole TOS thingy you all state, i would love to be there everytime you all install something new, you make it all sound like you all read every TOS and NOT just click next next next til its finished. Anyone that brings it up is just trying to prove a point on how right they are and how wrong anyone else is for doing it.

This is a game, its supposed to be fun, if something doesnt work and they are aware of it, let them handle it the way they want to and stop being tattletales.

Quick question, how does an individual bugging Gouf or whatever his name is affect you?... more competition or you just want to police everything????

thom · September 2008

kyri wrote: »

its beta .. end of story, if it is a finished game version then it shouldnt happen. And an announcement that everyone reads is necessary. Honestly the only people on here complaining are the people that are not new to this game.

A bug is a Bug and unless its officially announced other than forums then an instant permanent ban would result in alot of lost revenue for the company. And the whole TOS thingy you all state, i would love to be there everytime you all install something new, you make it all sound like you all read every TOS and NOT just click next next next til its finished. Anyone that brings it up is just trying to prove a point on how right they are and how wrong anyone else is for doing it.

This is a game, its supposed to be fun, if something doesnt work and they are aware of it, let them handle it the way they want to and stop being tattletales.

Quick question, how does an individual bugging Gouf or whatever his name is affect you?... more competition or you just want to police everything????

This has allready been announced even before servers opened for Closed beta,that bugging bosses is an exploit and results in actions taken, Said by Admins themselves.

Yes, servers are in beta stage,but the game itself has been running for years in other countries allready,so it is mostly finished product, only some localization done to finish it up.

They told us they enforce this rule and that they wont allow people to exploit bugs, not even small one's like editing ini's to make your char fat/thin.

About ToS, You only need to read it once unless you cant use common sense. Its about same in every single game. Read it and you understand why people bring the ToS up,since it only states things that you should allready know through common sense.

The reason why i brought this topic up, is that we arent seeing enough actions from GM's considering exploiting bugs in this game. And some of them do give you advantages over others.

This is all about making an example of how they handle rule breakers and cheaters.

If the only thing GM's do is give a warning, its only a slap on the wrists. Consider the whole population in mmo a single child. What that child does if you deny something from him just by saying you are not allowed to do that? ie, dont take cookies from that cookiejar, when he sees it right there on the shelf.

This goes for all cheating and exploiting, if those people who intentionally do this only get a warning, they will allways use these bugs and even try to actively seek new one's,since they have no fear of getting anything bad happen to their accounts,since they only get a warning.

And to Cat, if you start killing boss that way, and it is just standing there,never hitting back or doing anything, you really think its working as supposed?

Is common sense so rare these days?...

Sangria - Heavens Tear · September 2008

This is only a bad programming/design problem and should be addressed in the following patches, i do not understand why you are making such a big deal about it, you eighter kill the boss fair or use this trick, imho i do not see how this is a bannable action, should be an issue of morality/playstyle and no more than that!

thom · September 2008

Sangria - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This is only a bad programming/design problem and should be addressed in the following patches, i do not understand why you are making such a big deal about it, you eighter kill the boss fair or use this trick, imho i do not see how this is a bannable action, should be an issue of morality/playstyle and no more than that!

Because its not just about bugging one boss,that was used as an example.

There are other bugs to use for your advantage too and just read ToS, it states its illegal and its from the company owning and running this game.

Read my post again above you,i explained why i brought this up.

I do agree that it should be fixed as a top priority with a patch. That would be the best solution.

Cat - Heavens Tear · September 2008

thom wrote: »

And to Cat, if you start killing boss that way, and it is just standing there,never hitting back or doing anything, you really think its working as supposed?

Is common sense so rare these days?...

You must not spend alot of time in game or online to ask that. Else you would know the type of people you are dealing with in both. Yes common sense is that rare these days, so is intelligence.

I dont try to figure out what anyone is thinking anymore, and I stick by what I said. Warnings should be issued first, then bans. There IS enough situations where the player honestly might not know what they are doing or that it is wrong.

On top of that this "thread" is supposed to be a poll. Yet I only see you attacking anyone who doesnt agree with you. Not much of a poll there. Why dont you just change the title to I want everyone banned who bugs a boss regardless of their situation.

Tara - Lost City · September 2008

I honestly Don't care.. if these super bosses weren't so damn hard or parties weren't so hard to find i doubt most people would glitch. have quests sitting there for days waiting to be done most bosses you do once and leave sure there are those people that run FB over and over so?

as stated above its still beta if the admin want to ban people for it they will whining on here about it 24/7 wont change it they will when they are ready too.

thom · September 2008

Cat - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You must not spend alot of time in game or online to ask that. Else you would know the type of people you are dealing with in both. Yes common sense is that rare these days, so is intelligence.

I dont try to figure out what anyone is thinking anymore, and I stick by what I said. Warnings should be issued first, then bans. There IS enough situations where the player honestly might not know what they are doing or that it is wrong.

On top of that this "thread" is supposed to be a poll. Yet I only see you attacking anyone who doesnt agree with you. Not much of a poll there. Why dont you just change the title to I want everyone banned who bugs a boss regardless of their situation.

I'm not attacking anyone, just discussing with everyone about their sides.

And yes, i've played long enough to know common sense is rare in these games, yet it is something every player should have.

Yes, you gave a good opinion and on those very rare cases if a newb would somehow happen to use a bug completely through accident, i'm confident that GM's can see the difference.

You seem to miss the whole bigger picture i explained on my previous post. The whole reason why i am asking for such harsh penalties is because it would prevent most and about all bug exploiting if penalties are severe enough.

New players wont be doing those by accident,as explained before and i'm pretty sure GM's can judge it too.

If my answers seem like attacking,then apologies,i'm not trying to do that. Trying to have a good discussion for and against this.

kyri · September 2008

I agree with cat as im a totally new player and didnt start reading the forums and NOT ALL OF IT when i found bugs of my own. To any of you that dont like this bug I WOULD really love to know if you always clear the entire fb29, thats not how its supposed to be done, but never since starting this game have i seen any team clear the whole thing to get to qingzy, but im sure thom.. you definately clear the whole thing as you seem to never use any bugs......... but sure lets start banning people......... im sure the game will just turn into a server full of the same exact people from pw-my... what joy..... i'm already waiting for another f2p game to get out of beta.. because the people that have been playing this for years..(and not all of you :P) are ruining this server for those of us that are new to it. It's really a shame for i really enjoy the game. =(

thom · September 2008

kyri wrote: »

I agree with cat as im a totally new player and didnt start reading the forums and NOT ALL OF IT when i found bugs of my own. To any of you that dont like this bug I WOULD really love to know if you always clear the entire fb29, thats not how its supposed to be done, but never since starting this game have i seen any team clear the whole thing to get to qingzy, but im sure thom.. you definately clear the whole thing as you seem to never use any bugs......... but sure lets start banning people......... im sure the game will just turn into a server full of the same exact people from pw-my... what joy..... i'm already waiting for another f2p game to get out of beta.. because the people that have been playing this for years..(and not all of you :P) are ruining this server for those of us that are new to it. It's really a shame for i really enjoy the game. =(

Yes, our guild clears the whole dungeon, its easy. Yes,it is meant to be cleared fully before attacking the boss. We dont use bugs, we find a strategy that works.

Also yes, i'm aware that way too many players thinks its allright to exploit a bug.
For this reason too i would really like GM's to step in and make it clear to people that its not how you are supposed to do it.

Best thing still would be for them to fix these bugs,shouldnt be too difficult. Just patch em.

If your party cant take all the monsters,use wine. You need to kill 2 monsters then before attacking boss if i remember right.

Using a veno to lure the boss through the locked door is exploiting a bug and not how it is meant to be done.

acolyte · September 2008

Yukiko - Lost City wrote: »

Wrong, Cat. The ToS clearly states that exploiting the game code/mob AI is against the rules.

Just an FYI, it's quite apparent that GM's have no intentions of actually enforcing this rule. I watched a guild use a terrain bug with darkeye, a GM was called to stop them but instead just stood there and watched them do it too... with NO warning and NO ban.

If only you had made a vid and put it on youtube..

I loved to see how that GM would explain that to the rest of PWI!

Anyway BAN all that keep doing boss abuse ect.. and for those that was just there 1st time, gets a Warning.

That way they dont get banned.... just because the leader in group wanted it.

Celena - Lost City · September 2008

Here's another group of buggers abusing gouf:

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/9991/abuse01ij9.jpg
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/3432/abuse02rh4.jpg
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4945/abuse03gp1.jpg
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/1976/abuse04jv3.jpg
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/3626/abuse05ub1.jpg
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/9590/abuse06lv8.jpg
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/9977/abuse07oa3.jpg
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/5149/abuse08qg6.jpg
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/6363/abuse09yn3.jpg

So we have:
Forbiden Leader - Keltset (or dunno if its lower case L or capital i)
Forbiden Executor - DuskVamp
Forbiden - Rowen
RageQuit - Daedre
Cerrulean
Forbiden Executor - Zress

Question is, are the gm's going to do something about it?

Ash - Heavens Tear · September 2008

I'm new, and I don't have any interest in exploiting bugs, but I really think some of you need to lighten up.. What.. is PW supposed to be a Fascist state now? I agree that many people could accidentally stumble on a bug or get sucked in because someone in their squad wants to abuse it. That would be so wrong to ban them unfairly and how can you always be sure a GM will know the difference? Obviously, imperfect judgment is a thing of human nature. Banning people right away without a warning is way too harsh. Why not just report people to the GMs if you see them doing it over and over again and let the GM's investigate? Maybe there should be something like it gets put on someone's record and if they're caught doing it a certain number of times they're perma-banned. But a warning is only fair in most cases I think. I don't even see really what is the big deal unless someone is exploiting something like crazy. I mean, even if other players are exploiting bugs left and right, does that really affect me personally? I don't really think so. And there will always be honest players like you who will play fair, so why worry? Just report and ban the repeat offenders. There's enough fascism in the world already, methinks. And it's only a game.

I think fear of repeat offenders being permanently banned should be enough to keep it from getting ridiculous, don't you think?

Cat - Heavens Tear · September 2008

Celena - Lost City wrote: »

Here's another group of buggers abusing gouf:

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/9991/abuse01ij9.jpg
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/3432/abuse02rh4.jpg
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4945/abuse03gp1.jpg
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/1976/abuse04jv3.jpg
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/3626/abuse05ub1.jpg
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/9590/abuse06lv8.jpg
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/9977/abuse07oa3.jpg
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/5149/abuse08qg6.jpg
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/6363/abuse09yn3.jpg

So we have:
Forbiden Leader - Keltset (or dunno if its lower case L or capital i)
Forbiden Executor - DuskVamp
Forbiden - Rowen
RageQuit - Daedre
Cerrulean
Forbiden Executor - Zress

Question is, are the gm's going to do something about it?

Hawk wrote:

This not how to properly report someone for exploiting something in game. Here is what you need to do to report someone exploiting ANY bug or glitch in game.

- take screenshots and ONLY send them through the ticketing system at: http://support.perfectworld.com/ticketing - report it as a user violation.
- don't bother with creating threads and posting screenshots here as it just leads to flame wars.

From that point GMs will look into each report on a case by case basis. GM's will then take appropriate action, and repeat offenders will probably find their accounts in danger of anything from a temporary to a permanant ban.

Just so you know

Celena - Lost City · September 2008

Cat - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Just so you know

Yah, that url doesn't work, otherwise I'd be doing just that

Chiraz - Heavens Tear · September 2008

The page it links to looks fine to me, and you know, there might be a (C)opyright thing with screenshots.

thom wrote: »

And to Cat, if you start killing boss that way, and it is just standing there,never hitting back or doing anything, you really think its working as supposed?

Is common sense so rare these days?...

Common Sense dictates that you use the most efficient tactics available. What else, should they fight from a more vulnerable position, abandon their usual and perfectly sound (and legal) strategy just because it's 'so obvious' that the AI can not handle their strategy? That would be ludicrous.

The mob's AI needs to be fixed, that's all there's to it. And in a beta you'd want players to find, even look for, these kinds of bugs rather then deter them from dong so.

thom wrote: »

New players wont be doing those by accident,as explained before and i'm pretty sure GM's can judge it too.

I've seen a perfect example of how this could unfold by accident. How you manage to maintain that Cat's example can not occur is beyond common sense.

Yukiko - Lost City · September 2008

Celena - Lost City wrote: »

Yah, that url doesn't work, otherwise I'd be doing just that

Doesn't matter either way, fact is no matter how you report it people just aren't getting banned.

For those people who say "warnings first, ban later" consider that these bosses they are killing only need to be killed ONCE, it's not as though they have to do it 3-4 times.

I think if you read between the lines what people are really asking here is that GM's do their jobs.

I have screenshots of a GM standing by, watching a party use a terrain exploit to kill the boss around kings feast. Not only did they lure the boss in to a safe zone, they exploited the buildings there so that they never had to be hit while they killed it. Are you going to tell me these people had no idea what the were doing was wrong ?

To top it off, this GM actually called another player to explain to the offending party why this was bug abuse.

It's quite obvious the zero-tolerance policy is more a case of zero-enforcement policy. Personally, I have zero faith that when I call a GM to have an issue sorted that it will be handled properly.

Enough of the warnings, the terms of service are there for a reason. Not for half of us to abide by and not for half of us to ignore.

Celena - Lost City · September 2008

Yukiko - Lost City wrote: »

Doesn't matter either way, fact is no matter how you report it people just aren't getting banned.

I'm aware they don't care, I reported a botter (used some kind of a program to control multiple characters and was running in a circle killing mobs with them) through ingame "report hacking" thingie, the GM showed up in 30 seconds and after a while came to the conclusion that the person was not botting, but questing with a friend. Yeah right, they're in perfect coordination with each other, pressing buttons exactly the same time and moving to the same spots at the same time, sheesh.

thom · September 2008

Yukiko - Lost City wrote: »

Doesn't matter either way, fact is no matter how you report it people just aren't getting banned.

For those people who say "warnings first, ban later" consider that these bosses they are killing only need to be killed ONCE, it's not as though they have to do it 3-4 times.

I think if you read between the lines what people are really asking here is that GM's do their jobs.

I have screenshots of a GM standing by, watching a party use a terrain exploit to kill the boss around kings feast. Not only did they lure the boss in to a safe zone, they exploited the buildings there so that they never had to be hit while they killed it. Are you going to tell me these people had no idea what the were doing was wrong ?

To top it off, this GM actually called another player to explain to the offending party why this was bug abuse.

It's quite obvious the zero-tolerance policy is more a case of zero-enforcement policy. Personally, I have zero faith that when I call a GM to have an issue sorted that it will be handled properly.

Enough of the warnings, the terms of service are there for a reason. Not for half of us to abide by and not for half of us to ignore.

Exactly what i've been trying to explain to people too. GM's need to get their act together, this isnt even near what they promised to do,not to talk about following their own ToS.

So many posts telling people exploiting bugs and even if GM shows up,he doesnt do a thing. This really doesnt sound like people who know what they are doing, as i was assured in an email i got from them.

And that kind of behaviour will only promote more people in exploiting any and all bugs. We have seen that on My-En servers allready. There's also tons of other games to use as an example of what happens when exploiting isnt dealt with.

timioo · September 2008

kyri wrote: »

To any of you that dont like this bug I WOULD really love to know if you always clear the entire fb29, thats not how its supposed to be done, but never since starting this game have i seen any team clear the whole thing to get to qingzy, but im sure thom.. you definately clear the whole thing as you seem to never use any bugs.....

Yes we do clear the dungeon entirely, whats so hard about it?

And yeah my-en is good example of botting, hacking and the careless GM's..do we want these servers to turn into same? I don't think so.

GM's start banning these bug users or it will never stop. Warning them for doing that is like poking them with a stick, ban their accounts and its like spear piercing their hearts

Poll:Permabans from bugging bosses?

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