Concerns About Cash Shop Pricing

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  • Kahlan - Heavens Tear
    Kahlan - Heavens Tear Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited September 2008
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    Hopefully we'll hear something soon!
  • asendas
    asendas Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited September 2008
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    GUYS!

    Somebody draw me the supply and demand curves! And show the methodology you used to get the data! I don't want any of those **** numbers you guys posted. I want solid evidence.

    Marginal cost of producing CS items is zero, but the costs that PWE incurs to create this game is pretty high. Here's an overview of cost estimates:

    Servers (rented + location): 20k/yr
    Equipment management: 10k/yr
    Salary (10-15 person team): 500k/yr
    Fatwire (internetz): 24k/yr
    Rights for PW: 50k/yr?
    Office space rent: 30k/yr
    Taxes! (of course): 20% of total

    This results in over $750k/year. This is a lot of money! Despite this, PWE will maximize profits by decreasing heiro prices down to approximately $1.40-$1.70/silver heiro. And you will be satisfied.

    Dammit. i are annoyed at ur stipulations. All of yous!
  • Poison - Heavens Tear
    Poison - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,444 Arc User
    edited September 2008
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    Kahlan - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Hopefully we'll hear something soon!

    Hopefully for the paychecks they want us to provide for them it will be before we all start paying the salaries of another place. :(
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • smokin420
    smokin420 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2008
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    After spending $60 and not getting even close to what I bought in the MY version Im feeling like I wont be spending anymore money till I see a price drop wether its giving us more zen to the dollar or lower the cost of the items in the cash shop.

    My wife wanted to play and do the whole married thing in the game till we saw its gonna costs us over $60, hmmm in real life it only cost $40 for a marriage certifiacate and our pastor married us for free.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • palma
    palma Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited September 2008
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    Changing the prices is a management decision, not something that the forum admins have any say in other than to provide input. They can't give us an answer until they are told to... so don't blame the forum admins or GMs. I feel that they have been quite responsive within the limited range they are allowed.

    I'm guessing that the management of PWI is currently dealing with investors/owners who were told to expect business model "X" and now are being asked to change it to "Y". I suspect that this is not a pleasant situation and I don't think you would not want to be in their shoes right now. It is possible that some jobs are on the line.

    High level changes to a business plan can easily take weeks or longer. That said, this should be settled before the end of Beta. I would say that is the drop-dead date.

    The best companies have visionaries steering the ship, and react quickly to the ebb and flow of the market to avert disasters before they strike. You can always tell when the business owner is hands on... for then there will be quick decisions based on customer concerns.

    If there is no official response by the end of Open Beta, it will speak volumes about the management of PWI.
  • ragingwind
    ragingwind Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2008
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    Palma, they should have already gotten this right from the beginning of PWI. This is such a big blunder that I no longer think of it as a mistake but as dirty business practices. If you think about it, they are slowly feeding us new forum features that could easily have been provided very quickly from the beginning. It's the same old tactic that Asian companies have used for years to keep people interrested in their company. On top of that, they have not kept their promises. They have changed a ton of things that were supposed to be better than they are. This company is dirty. That's why people are leaving.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Poison - Heavens Tear
    Poison - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,444 Arc User
    edited September 2008
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    palma wrote: »
    It is possible that some jobs are on the line.

    Honestly... I believe they should be. If I **** up majorly at my job, I get fired. Unless you are a Meteorologist the same probably applies to you as well. Whoever thought these prices was a good idea screwed up majorly at their job, there's a way to cut some costs. If they don't, well they'll all end up losing their jobs when they don't make revenue because everyone left.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Yami - Heavens Tear
    Yami - Heavens Tear Posts: 34 Arc User
    edited September 2008
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    The admins know very well they have to lower prices/give more zen.

    But they are just waiting, thinking they will get around this somehow.
    But in the end they won't, and they will still have to do as we want.
    Yami - Cleric - Heaven's Tear
    Testament - Barbarian - Heaven's Tear
  • Fiery - Lost City
    Fiery - Lost City Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited September 2008
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    Yes we'll just outwait them by not paying until they give us the fair prices.
    Like come on, 24 bucks to +5 a piece of equipment? That's bull!
  • rev
    rev Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited September 2008
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    Hmmm... notice how the Choose your destiny thread seems to be gone from the forum?
    "Either you die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." Harvey Dent - The Dark Knight

    Phase 1 Dungeon Design Contest Winner!
    Entry: Hall of Forsaken Souls, Twas fun to design.
  • Sloppyjoe - Lost City
    Sloppyjoe - Lost City Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited September 2008
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    rev wrote: »
    Hmmm... notice how the Choose your destiny thread seems to be gone from the forum?

    The poll ended and the thread was locked. It's still there though:

    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=43731&page=13
  • Faefae - Heavens Tear
    Faefae - Heavens Tear Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited September 2008
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    Well, at least they finally got the avatars up and running.

    But back on topic...

    As much as I love this game and as much as I enjoy the people I know on here, I am eagerly awaiting the EU closed beta. Because, while there are a significant number of us dissatisfied with the current pricing, I doubt much will change any time soon.

    Judging by they amount of mounts/weddings/shouts, etc I see in game, there are most likely enough people paying in at these outrageous prices that there will be no real push for them to make any real changes.

    With that in mind, and as I am getting close to "needing" charms to continue any meaningful leveling/grinding, I feel my time here is slowly drawing to a close. Which truly makes me sad, because, aside from the cash shop rip off, I truly love this game and its community.

    Here's to hoping they really do make a change, but I'm not holding my breath.
  • odb
    odb Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2008
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    dagny wrote: »
    Xarfox,

    From numerous PMs from me that I am a huge supporter of PWI, including with money I have already spent in the cash shop. I appreciate you taking the time to address everyone's concerns. Just because I spent money on the game does not mean I don't share some concerns, but I want the game to survive and thrive so I am willing to support it to an extent.

    Now, to be fair, I do have to take humbrage with one of your points. I do this humbly, but I consider myself a fair person, so please understand my issue is with something you said, not with you personally.

    Your facts are great and I have used them myself to defend higher pricing in the US for the game... some of them. Your stats on higher operating costs are valid and make sense. That said, you would have done well to leave out the part about personal incomes.

    Let me explain. I have friends who built a really beautiful home, something WAY beyond my means. They were having a driveway poured and got 3 people to come out and give estimates. 2 of the companies sent out reps who took one look at the size of the home and gave their estimate accordingly. One company came out and measure the length of the neededd driveway, compute costs, and gave an estimate.

    My point? The last company who took time to figure out the value of their service got the job because their price had nothing to do with how much money my friends made. If an item in your shop is worth $5, it's not worth $15 just because we make more money. Using the logic that if you make 3 times as much money you can afford to pay 3 times as much is poor economic logic because you just nullified that persons 300% larger income. There is a reason we have a higher standar of living, using your logic our living conditions would match Malaysia because we would in reality make the same amout of money as them if our costs are 3 times as much as theirs.

    You are selling virtual items that have no intrinsic value whatsoever. They are not worth anymore here than they are there. Period.

    Now, you can justify higher costs because people playing here should have better pings and better service and a game where the translations make sense, etc.

    But not 300%. It's wrong, and your customer base will bear this out.

    I believe your customers will pay more than they did in Malaysia for what they are getting, but not that much more. I hope you understand this is not an attack. My degree is in economics and your company's rationalization for the higher costs will not bear out.

    Keep in mind, it costs your company NOTHING extra to provide 10 cyber dresses or 50. You (your company) has to decide if you want "x" number of customers who can afford to pay, or several times that amount if the prices are maybe half what they are now.

    You're making more money per transaction now, but your pockets will be more full if your prices are more affordable.

    Just my 2 cents. I love your game and I'll be playing it awhile, but whether or not you'll see more of my money is your call.

    Dagny



    wow 44 pages of **** when 1 post explains it all.

    1-lower your prices slowly
    2-keep track at each price interval of how much you make


    its simple economics. as prices lower bulk sales will go up. if profit goes up it was a good move. if you lower it again and profit goes up it was another good move. sooner or later your price drop will net you less...then you have found your optimum pricing to keep the most players happy while optimizing your profit. most of us understand that you are a business and your goal is to make money. by doing this you would make even more money and it creates no more work for you seeing as all items being sold are virtual and automatically dispensed as they are purchased.
  • Psychon - Heavens Tear
    Psychon - Heavens Tear Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited September 2008
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    odb wrote: »
    wow 44 pages of **** when 1 post explains it all.

    1-lower your prices slowly
    2-keep track at each price interval of how much you make


    its simple economics. as prices lower bulk sales will go up. if profit goes up it was a good move. if you lower it again and profit goes up it was another good move. sooner or later your price drop will net you less...then you have found your optimum pricing to keep the most players happy while optimizing your profit. most of us understand that you are a business and your goal is to make money. by doing this you would make even more money and it creates no more work for you seeing as all items being sold are virtual and automatically dispensed as they are purchased.

    What he said.
    Besides, if the player base goes "BAWWWW GM why prices go up again?!" all you've gotta do is make a simple little announcement that basically says "So yeah, we realized that we set the prices too low and we were losing money by doing so, so we bumped 'em back up a bit. Sorry for the inconvenience ladies and gents."
    With FreeToPlay MMOs its really hard to get an idea of how much profit will be made in such early stages, but honestly, take the current average of people who have charged zen fairly regularly and then determine a slightly lower price that would attract other players as well as keep your budget fairly balanced.
    Baby steps guys, baby steps, it'll be worth it when everything moves like clockwork.
    //Psychon
  • Paulytnz - Heavens Tear
    Paulytnz - Heavens Tear Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited September 2008
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    I don't mind most of the prices for things in this game but what I DO oppose is the randomness of the pigments for the price you pay. I must have spent 60 dollars on just a few items to upgrade my bank inventory, personal inventory, the first set of clothes and "random" dyes to get a set colour.

    I estimate about a 3rd if not more of that cash was spent on the dyes. I feel ripped off and still do not have a set of clothes that match in colour.

    We should not be paying hard earned real life cash for a "chance" at getting something that we want in this game. However I can see how it would be such a "cash cow" for you guys...

    Honestly I would prefer to support you guys through a subscription rather than nonsence like this.
  • teesh
    teesh Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2008
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    The people in charge need to decide what they are going to do about the Cash Shop situation and soon. PW-EU is fairly close to closed beta, in fact I would give it a week before they announce it. Then they said they are only doing it for 10-days maximum, before open beta and their cash shop opens.

    Once that happens, and if they haven't fixed the prices here. I predict a mass exodus/defection to PW-EU. The ping there doesn't look like it will be bad at all for US players, I tested and got between 113-118 ms which is certainly lag free.

    tick tock...

    time's almost up.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Nevermore - Heavens Tear
    Nevermore - Heavens Tear Posts: 438 Arc User
    edited September 2008
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    Could admin's post here again? It seems like this thread is just here so people can vent and hope for a price change so you get them off your back and nothing will change in the end.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Boniu - Lost City
    Boniu - Lost City Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited September 2008
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    well, with a ping of 120+ playing on the east coast, i'm not ready to spend $ yet.
  • ryuuzaki
    ryuuzaki Posts: 680 Arc User
    edited September 2008
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    Nevermore - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Could admin's post here again? It seems like this thread is just here so people can vent and hope for a price change so you get them off your back and nothing will change in the end.

    Well, it's not exactly *here* but dvorak's last post on the Cash Shop Item poll would be relevant:
    dvorak wrote: »
    Again, thank you to everyone for your invaluable feedback and participation in this poll thread. The staffers at PWE take all of your suggestions and concerns very seriously and we are considering all the points raised here including the poll options we should have included as well.

    Although our response on these matters have not been arriving as frequently as most of you would like bear with us as we process your feedback thoroughly.

    Especially the part about "the poll options we should have included as well". These are important decisions, I'd expect it to take a little time... even if the action they should take seems obvious to you. ;)

    And by 'a little time', I mean... well that's anyone's guess. But I can assure you it's one of their top priorities.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Nevermore - Heavens Tear
    Nevermore - Heavens Tear Posts: 438 Arc User
    edited September 2008
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    It's good news to hear it's a priority for them, call me jaded but I've seen it in many communities, not only of MMORPG's where such threads were made so people could vent there and nothing changed however mods/admins didn't have to deal with people making separate topics about it.

    Would be absolutely wonderful if this wasn't the case here :)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited September 2008
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    Nevermore - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    It's good news to hear it's a priority for them, call me jaded but I've seen it in many communities, not only of MMORPG's where such threads were made so people could vent there and nothing changed however mods/admins didn't have to deal with people making separate topics about it.

    Would be absolutely wonderful if this wasn't the case here :)

    As of right now, some people are buying zen but not enough for the company to generate much revenue at all. Most likely not nearly enough simply to pay for overhead so this HAS to be a priority.
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • Paulytnz - Heavens Tear
    Paulytnz - Heavens Tear Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited September 2008
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    Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    As of right now, some people are buying zen but not enough for the company to generate much revenue at all. Most likely not nearly enough simply to pay for overhead so this HAS to be a priority.

    Dang right, and for those that HAVE supported and paid cash already we should get some kind of free credit in the store to balance out any differences that are made.

    Be blown if I would be happy that other players get say 100 "boutique Gold" for their 20 dollars when I only got 20 for the same real life cash value.
  • Ren - Lost City
    Ren - Lost City Posts: 355 Arc User
    edited September 2008
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    Why haven't hieros been dropped to MY prices? The game is unplayable for anything exept werefoxes. Sick and tired of mages and wbs QQing about heiros.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Zoe is so full of it, that he must be Karmelia.
  • Lawin - Heavens Tear
    Lawin - Heavens Tear Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited September 2008
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    For those who bought zen already and are asking for refund or cash back or bonus for doing so, please stop it and do not expect to get any.

    You made a willing decision to purchase the zen at current prices. It only proved that you value those purchases than the dollar amount you spent. Nobody forced you to buy them and I believe that you got your money's worth based on your own decision and value system.

    If PWI lowers the price,they do not owe anybody anything in return. Any transaction made prior to lowering the price are agreed upon by both the buyer and the seller.

    P.S. Please continue spending though because if they do not lower the price then I will be a free loader and be dependent on you rich people to keep the server up. Thank you.
  • Devast - Heavens Tear
    Devast - Heavens Tear Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited September 2008
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    I vote not to lower item shop prices.It's clear that many people are buying zen like candy, and sales will increase later on. If ppl are happy getting ripped off, then business goes well i guess. As for me, i'm gone at the moment ms version goes open beta. Also, i suggest renaming pw-international to pw-elite. That name would fit this version much better.
  • troll
    troll Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited September 2008
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    either change rates or lose player base.

    it's already happening.
  • Zezix - Lost City
    Zezix - Lost City Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited September 2008
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    I heard they were lowering the prices, is this true? If so, when?
  • troll
    troll Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited September 2008
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    Zezix - Lost City wrote: »
    I heard they were lowering the prices, is this true? If so, when?

    what part of a 45 page thread telling them to do just this (actually lower rates not prices tyvm) and getting no response bar "we are looking into it" has passed you by?
  • Silentbob - Heavens Tear
    Silentbob - Heavens Tear Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited September 2008
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    Default [INTERNATIONAL] The Empire Guild Int-moving here
    We r a lvl 2 guild on PWI and we r 100/100 strong. Here is a brief discription of what we stand for

    1. respect ur fellow players and guildmates
    2. no pking guildmates
    3. no random pking
    4, report any pks ... we will come out in force and defend u
    5. have a :i got ur back attitude" we all believe in sharing wheather its knowledge or items
    6. any 1 that joins us.. must no that we will gvg and TW and will expect help from all guildmates.
    7. Edited out
    8. make sure u have vent installed and can use it..vent is excellent for communication for gvgs, tw, fbs and just plain old talking.
    9. be an adult...of course there r exceptions to that rule.. I have met some pretty mature 16 yr olds.
    10. i am a female and i wont put up with a men disrespecting me.
    11.we r matching peoples personalities..we r not just throwing any 1 into this guild. Id rather have 40 online people all talking. interacting, and helping one another then 140 in a guild that dont do any of that.
    12. i may be the guild leader but i completely understand thats where it begins and ends..it is the people that make the guild..so it will be the people that will help in the decision making.
    13. dictators, marshals and Executor will be picked based on their personality, how often they r online, how helpful they r and if they r on vent or not.
    14. The FB team will be picked based on the following criteria: their willingness to help, do they have access to ventrilo, and can they follow orders. Rambo'ing an FB is NOT smart and alot of xp can be lost. We try to maximize the xp gain.
    15. 3 guild banks will be set up which will be free to all LOYAL and proven guild mates




    WHOLE GUILDS ARE LEAVING LIKE RATS ON A SINKING SHIP!!!
    And still they sit an "watch" LOL
  • Poison - Heavens Tear
    Poison - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,444 Arc User
    edited September 2008
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    *goes and checks the forums there* So basically 100 people left the game in one shot because of cash shop overpricing... Nice!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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