Does this mean that...

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flangod
flangod Posts: 9 Arc User
edited August 2008 in Arigora Colosseum
In the PVP server, the high level areas will be filled with archers and mages?

If they are truly the best PVP classes then I doubt that warriors etc. will ever get past the level 50 range since they'll be picked on as easy targets...

Unless they have a good PVP guild backing them up, the close range classes will be ignored, and everyone will choose archers and mages...

I say this because it seems like everyone in the PVP server are aggressive. Of course right? Since there'll only be a few places to level near endgame there will be competition. It's PK or be PKed. And if you can't PK effectively as a warrior or whatever, then obviously you should choose a better class for PK.

So I'm seeing the endgame filled with archers and mages...
Post edited by flangod on
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  • senovit
    senovit Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    Warriors can pk effectively. Get a group of warriors to take turns spamming lions roar on an enemy party and the lolz ensues. Even without having the ability to long range, their stuns allow them to hold an enemy down long enough to close range **** them.

    Also, priests > mages in damage.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • sealed
    sealed Posts: 781
    edited August 2008
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    Warriors can be overpowered if you build them that way =)

    sealed~
  • flangod
    flangod Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    That puts my mind at ease. So as long as you have a good party/guild and strategy the game can still stay balanced.
  • mystic
    mystic Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    flangod wrote: »
    That puts my mind at ease. So as long as you have a good party/guild and strategy the game can still stay balanced.

    Absolutely. Mages and archers never truely slip out of balance - archers are just a class with a counter to every other class, and not every class has that ability. However, a good warrior with a proper build will beat an average archer, and visa versa.

    The typical PKer has no idea what he's doing and gets confused as soon as his enemy pops a pink pot.

    Play your class well and build for PVP and you'll be ready for anything they can throw at you.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Selfish blood runs through my veins. I gave up everything for fame.

    Pandora - 8X Mage - Lost City (PvP - The only server worth playing.)
  • showharu
    showharu Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    mystic wrote: »

    Play your class well and build for PVP and you'll be ready for anything they can throw at you.

    Very true also WFs are very good pk class also if.........
    haha not tellin:D
  • senovit
    senovit Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    I'll say it. Werefoxes are good pk'ers if you abuse ripping bite. :D
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ark
    ark Posts: 1,635 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    senovit wrote: »
    Warriors can pk effectively. Get a group of warriors to take turns spamming lions roar on an enemy party and the lolz ensues. Even without having the ability to long range, their stuns allow them to hold an enemy down long enough to close range **** them.

    Also, priests > mages in damage    .

    Not true. The basic PK skills are equal in damage and casting time, while the Wizard has more casting distance. And then the third and most damaging skills (thunder wield vs arena-ceous wave) give the damage advantage to the Wizard. The Wizard spell also has more range, uses less mana, and after Hell, the Wizard deals 1200 more damage than what he used to be able to do(which was higher than thunder wield). Plus, this spell cuts a person's accuracy in half. Cool bonus. Oh, and it maxes out 5 levels lower than the thunder wield, and costs less to level :p. The only disadvantage is the 0.2s longer casting time. Plus, Wizards have more physical defense.

    In conclusion, Wizards > Clerics even if the Wizard doesn't have the Cleric buffs. With them, he's invincible.
    As a Guild,

    Live as One, fight as One, win as One.
    Strength in Unity,
    Order through Chaos,
    Victory united.
  • senovit
    senovit Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    A 4 second casting time is ridiculous. Unless you're ambushing someone who is either a Warrior, Werebeast, or another Mage, you're going to get counterstunned easily. A werefox megalith is a 95% chance of stun for 2.3 seconds, an Archer has a 1.6 second Outcold blast, and a priest's sleep only takes 2 seconds. What does this leave? Besides ambushes, a spamming of blazing / spring for the mage and a spamming of Plume / Cyclone for a priest. So what does this mean? Equal damages, like you stated before. However, a priest has one advantage a mage doesn't - Sleep. Mages have no stun skills or paralyze skills, so against a warrior or werebeast they cannot help but spam their two lower level attacks and hope to stay out of range. A priest however, can not only sleep any ranged classes in preparation to actually USE their damaging skills, they can also paralyze melee classes for the same effect.

    Sure, mages may have more damaging skills on paper - but they're never going to have the opportunity to use them.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • moop
    moop Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    imo the classes in pw is perfectly balanced for the content.. and though you will typically see more EAs and mages.. you will always see those classes because many people prefer the persona over the actual abilities..
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ark
    ark Posts: 1,635 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    senovit wrote: »
    A 4 second casting time is ridiculous. Unless you're ambushing someone who is either a Warrior, Werebeast, or another Mage, you're going to get counterstunned easily. A werefox megalith is a 95% chance of stun for 2.3 seconds, an Archer has a 1.6 second Outcold blast, and a priest's sleep only takes 2 seconds. What does this leave? Besides ambushes, a spamming of blazing / spring for the mage and a spamming of Plume / Cyclone for a priest. So what does this mean? Equal damages, like you stated before. However, a priest has one advantage a mage doesn't - Sleep. Mages have no stun skills or paralyze skills, so against a warrior or werebeast they cannot help but spam their two lower level attacks and hope to stay out of range. A priest however, can not only sleep any ranged classes in preparation to actually USE their damaging skills, they can also paralyze melee classes for the same effect.

    Sure, mages may have more damaging skills on paper - but they're never going to have the opportunity to use them.

    Actually, Wizards have more advantages than you think. They have a skill that makes ANY skill they cast have 0 chanting time. So, they can cast many, many powerful nukes within the alloted time. If this damage doesn't kill, then a WZ will have enough fury to end the fight with a doom spell, which is usually the water drake. If it's robes, go with the raining comets which are mostly physical damage. .... If you want a stun, then their Earth doomspell is a spell as powerful as the Galactic Storm(more powerful if the weapon is refined. The extra power comes from the extra weapon-damage multiplier), and is aoe, and has 6 seconds of stun. During the stun, you can do what I said in the above statement on the 0 chanting spell, with the exception of the final doom. Replace that with another powerful nuke.

    Wizards only have a problem with robed EPs, and robed WFs. If you're a light armour WZ, you might have troubles with a robed WZ. But then again, one hit from the fire doom is enough to reduce any robe to near-death. I've seen it do a 72k critical hit.
    As a Guild,

    Live as One, fight as One, win as One.
    Strength in Unity,
    Order through Chaos,
    Victory united.
  • senovit
    senovit Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    Sutra takes two fury. Unless you're heaven/hell, you're not going to have enough fury to use a doom skill after using sutra. Also, what's raining comets? The only physical damage that a Wizard can do that I know of is their fire doom skill. The stuns I talked about are "quick" stuns, meant to interrupt naive players that start a battle off with their ulti. Countering an ulti with an ulti would work fine I suppose, but trying to start your battle with the earth doom under the premise of landing a 6 second stun is stupid against any class that has a 2 second casting stun. You can make an argument for blasting point, but blasting point -> doom skill = other player runs out of range during the insanely long cast time.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ark
    ark Posts: 1,635 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    Well, I don't get what you'd be doing PKing before Heaven/Hell. Raining comets = fire doom. You're surprising the guy, so your Earth doom stun(lasts for 6s) will not be countered. If you're PKing and the target's running, you start the attacking at closer range, and the player only ends up running after the first attack because he can't read your intentions.

    :D
    As a Guild,

    Live as One, fight as One, win as One.
    Strength in Unity,
    Order through Chaos,
    Victory united.
  • senovit
    senovit Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    I wouldn't wait 90 levels to pvp, but that's just me x:

    Sure. Ambushing someone with a doom skill is lulz. But one situation - that of ambushing someone while they're fighting mobs (if they're not fighting mobs, you will get autotargeted by them, allowing them to react with any quick stun/skill cancel while you're in your skill animation.) - does not mean in any sense that Wizards would do better pvp than Priests. In any case where it's not an ambush - players fighting each other in a territory war, or just an open area pk war - a mage will not be able to doom skill someone.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • cuzmoar
    cuzmoar Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    Just my two cents but I think that clerics (still think of them as priests) are better for PvP. Again, if you're talking about two equally skilled players then the priest should be able to interrupt with the stuns and get free damage. Also, I don't know if you've played on any of the other servers but I hardly ever see high level Wizards (mages). It just doesn't work as well at higher levels because in PvP and in HH, they do hardly any damage as compared to other classes.
  • ark
    ark Posts: 1,635 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    Actually, they can do the most damage out of any class, Cuz. I've seen the level 89 Wizard in my guild do stuff, and with that instant-cast skill...

    Anyways, I know for a fact that Wizards are great in TW. I've been killed in 1 hit by their aoe attacks before. I've seen a WZ kill off 10 people at once. In PK, Clerics are a problem. If you're a light-armoured WZ, then you can kill a Cleric with almost no problem due to Earth Barrier(double phys defence). They'll end up running away. And when our new skills come out, the WZ earns a 4-second sleep spell which will help in ambushes. There's also blasting point if you're afraid of a counterattack. Considering Clerics are in light armour at this time(90%+ are).... you shouldn't have much difficulty in dispatching them. Watch.

    Cleric:
    Blasting point > Spring Gush > Wisdom Sutra > Divine Pyro Heiro > Mountain Press > Arenaceous Wave > Blizzard Blast > Game Over.

    Archers:
    Sleep > Wisdom Sutra > Arenaceous Wave > Mountain Press > Divine Pyro > Blizzard Blast > Game Over.

    It works whether or not they expect it.
    As a Guild,

    Live as One, fight as One, win as One.
    Strength in Unity,
    Order through Chaos,
    Victory united.
  • senovit
    senovit Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    ark wrote: »
    Blasting point > Spring Gush > Wisdom Sutra > Divine Pyro Heiro > Mountain Press > Arenaceous Wave > Blizzard Blast > Game Over.

    Archers:
    Sleep > Wisdom Sutra > Arenaceous Wave > Mountain Press > Divine Pyro > Blizzard Blast > Game Over.

    Sorry, but how much vigor do you have again? The first combo is only doable with full vigor after 89. The second combo is only doable with full vigor after 89 if aranaceous wave gives you at least 21 vigor. Both of your "win" combos force a mage to level to 89 before being any good, and right after performing either of these combos you'll only have about 40-50 vigor left. Congrats, you get to kill one person with this combo and then you're screwed.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • mystic
    mystic Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    I like this debate! Carry on! Mages were one of the classes I was considering rolling this time after seeing how much **** they kicked on MY-EN, and this argument may very well sway my outcome!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Selfish blood runs through my veins. I gave up everything for fame.

    Pandora - 8X Mage - Lost City (PvP - The only server worth playing.)
  • senovit
    senovit Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    Wtf, get off these boards and bring irpg back. I'm crying without it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • mystic
    mystic Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    senovit wrote: »
    Wtf, get off these boards and bring irpg back. I'm crying without it.

    Is it down?

    I'm not at home, I spent the night at Kaity's house and I'm still there, and I have a party to go to in an hour but I doubt I'll be there long.

    You'll live.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Selfish blood runs through my veins. I gave up everything for fame.

    Pandora - 8X Mage - Lost City (PvP - The only server worth playing.)
  • faruxue
    faruxue Posts: 243 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    The sleep skill for MG is at lvl 109.

    So you can forget about you KO combo for EA.

    EPs and EA aren't trees that stand there for you to nuke, they have sleep and stun shots too.
    ULTIMATE TOPIC:
    See 3 RQ get owned by 1 WB
    copy and paste onto your web link
    pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=33421
  • mystic
    mystic Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    faruxue wrote: »
    The sleep skill for MG is at lvl 109.

    So you can forget about you KO combo for EA.

    EPs and EA aren't trees that stand there for you to nuke, they have sleep and stun shots too.

    According to http://perso.numericable.fr/ecatomb/pw/skillpwi.html the sleep skill for mages is at 79.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Selfish blood runs through my veins. I gave up everything for fame.

    Pandora - 8X Mage - Lost City (PvP - The only server worth playing.)
  • echo
    echo Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    EPs might be good for PVP. But you have to keep in mind: Elves are out there as a support class, people would use you as a healer rather than as a damage dealer.
    And most PVP happens when you're in a group, with a good group you can make a very nice use out of mages. And I wouldn't even bother dueling as a mage.
    Sure, EPs win 1vs1 over mages anytime, or at least it's a lot easier for them to win mages. But in group PVP EPs will most likely be the 1st targets.
    Though, mages are always the most underplayed and underestimated class, but logic is telling me that they wouldn't actually make a nerfed, underpowered and a completely useless class (though it's getting easier and easier to surprise me now).
    Well, my point is..it's all up to your skills as a player blahblahblahh (as you read on every which-class-to-choose thread).

    The answer to the thread starter: I don't think so.

    Anyway, you can assassinate my post now and murder my love for mages with your uber well-reasoned arguments and tested out facts.
    Idiot - A member of a large and powerful tribe whose influence in human affairs has always been dominant and controlling.
  • mystic
    mystic Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    echo wrote: »
    EPs might be good for PVP. But you have to keep in mind: Elves are out there as a support class, people would use you as a healer rather than as a damage dealer.
    And most PVP happens when you're in a group, with a good group you can make a very nice use out of mages. And I wouldn't even bother dueling as a mage.

    Nobody heals in PVP... Just, you know, by the way.
    Anyway, you can assassinate my post now and murder my love for mages with your uber well-reasoned arguments and tested out facts.

    Despite being an archer player (we are the mage's rival - our positions can be swapped in parties and we do the same jobs, mostly) I am also a mage fan and I give the class more credit than most.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Selfish blood runs through my veins. I gave up everything for fame.

    Pandora - 8X Mage - Lost City (PvP - The only server worth playing.)
  • puppetsoul
    puppetsoul Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    Looking at http://perso.numericable.fr/ecatomb/pw/skillpwi.html makes me want to vomit.

    WB gets a vigor boost, bramble array, a buff wipe, and a ranged root.

    EP gets bramble array.

    MG gets a sleep and a "for 30 seconds damage = infinity" selfbuff.

    WR gets a single target damage nullifier which also has some other debuffs on it, and a physical damage immunity with a heal attached.

    EA gets a sprint with snare immunity.

    WF gets... five skills which are HEAVILY inferior versions of skills they already have?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • splice
    splice Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    echo wrote: »
    EPs might be good for PVP. But you have to keep in mind: Elves are out there as a support class, people would use you as a healer rather than as a damage dealer.
    And most PVP happens when you're in a group, with a good group you can make a very nice use out of mages. And I wouldn't even bother dueling as a mage.
    Sure, EPs win 1vs1 over mages anytime, or at least it's a lot easier for them to win mages. But in group PVP EPs will most likely be the 1st targets.
    Though, mages are always the most underplayed and underestimated class, but logic is telling me that they wouldn't actually make a nerfed, underpowered and a completely useless class (though it's getting easier and easier to surprise me now).
    Well, my point is..it's all up to your skills as a player blahblahblahh (as you read on every which-class-to-choose thread).

    The answer to the thread starter: I don't think so.

    Anyway, you can assassinate my post now and murder my love for mages with your uber well-reasoned arguments and tested out facts.

    yep, basically thats it.
    Is this the echo from the legacy? ;p
  • senovit
    senovit Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    echo wrote: »
    Anyway, you can assassinate my post now and murder my love for mages with your uber well-reasoned arguments and tested out facts.

    YOUR MOTHER must add filler
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • matthew
    matthew Posts: 135 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    To the OP: no, end game wont be filled with mages. There will be a lot of warriors, priests, archers, and werefoxes. There probably will be lesser werebeast and mage. Mage isn't an easy class to start with and they are probably the second most expensive behind priest. There are several builds to mage so you need to research so you understand what's best for what. They also require that you know how to kite. These factors may turn many off from mage class. They find it too difficult at first with too low of defense. Mages don't get strong to me until 70+.

    As far as mages doom skills. There are fury pills you can make with pharmacy. A level 59 mage with doom skills can use a 59 aoe ulti in a wisdom sutra, you just use the fury pill after you hit sutra, you do not need to be level 89 to do that.

    Blasting point>sutra>fury pill>divine pyro>pyro edge tempest>blizzard blast>blazing hierogram, for instance.
  • senovit
    senovit Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    Yeah. Carrying around a ton of fury pots is an option <_<.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • echo
    echo Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    splice wrote: »
    yep, basically thats it.
    Is this the echo from the legacy? ;p
    Naw. Sorry. :P
    senovit wrote: »
    YOUR MOTHER must add filler

    HI
    Idiot - A member of a large and powerful tribe whose influence in human affairs has always been dominant and controlling.
  • senovit
    senovit Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    echo wrote: »
    HI
    Was that enough to convince you not to play a mage? >=o
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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