0def for venos needs to be removed

#ChangeMyMind
What justices a class to guarantee a kill that easily while being unkillable and having purge + a pet?
«1

Comments

  • scooooter
    scooooter Posts: 27 Arc User
    its not guaranteed I miss it all the time. I get the 0 pdef proc. but arcane anatomy doesn't kill. Also we finally get something decent which hasn't happened since they took bramble reduced our damage output and made pets where they don't actually attack on defend for pk. so go QQ somewhere else.
  • pksparks
    pksparks Posts: 1 Arc User
    Have the skill require 3 sparks to cast with 100% certainty and everything is solved. If they want to punish players, they will need to take punishment for **** up using the skill at the wrong time. 0 pdef is broken and anyone down playing it is on something.
  • blazerboy
    blazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    Join the squad with the rest of the non veno community lol.
    scooooter wrote: »
    its not guaranteed I miss it all the time. I get the 0 pdef proc. but arcane anatomy doesn't kill. Also we finally get something decent which hasn't happened since they took bramble reduced our damage output and made pets where they don't actually attack on defend for pk. so go QQ somewhere else.

    Only 0 time ppl don’t die to 0 def is you didn’t coordinated it that’s called user error, doesn’t prove the skill has any place in this game js. Also something good? You literally can max range throw freeze/sleep (basically a stun) and a major amp on a GROUP of people and do this every 30 sec with a massive range, not to mention if veno uses a 12+ channel reduction neck it’s basically sent straight to cast which. Your fox form is always accessible while nightshade if they get puff hordes have to wait like 90 seconds. Two skills that reduce the overall damage you take and a chance to reduce a ton of Mdef. Aside from sleep you have access to almost every debuff in game and you’re saying you just now got something good? Guess purge on command must be useless. Lmfao veno has been a secure class for years what game have you been playing xD?
    pksparks wrote: »
    Have the skill require 3 sparks to cast with 100% certainty and everything is solved. If they want to punish players, they will need to take punishment for **** up using the skill at the wrong time. 0 pdef is broken and anyone down playing it is on something.

    So the fact venos literally exude chi and have paramounts mean nothing? Lmfao This will make it worse lmfao! Pay what? A mere 300 chi for a key player gone? Lmfao Bms can run in spend 200 just for a miss but fair because magic doesn’t right? This is excessive answers to the one solution just get rid of it or remove def charms open season mode!!! xD
    105/105/105 Seeking ScallyMode
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  • wraithling#9654
    wraithling#9654 Posts: 8 Arc User
    The fact is just, Venos have way too much impact on PK. Purge in PvE is totally fine. Imagine having a G17.5 Barbarian run up with a cata. Any G16 Archer / G16 Wizard / G16 Whatever would be DEAD useless against this class. But have a Veno. No matter their gear, they can purge you. We're in a Meta where a purge almost means certain death. Having the purge able being done by such a low gear standard on such a high frequency (keep in mind they can use AD to approach and purge u, u cant do nothing if your AD is on cooldown) is plainly broken.
    If it was only for the purge, but then there's a long range purge ulti aswell.
    That's fine for me tho. 5 Minutes cooldown, totally fair PvP purge, but make the normal purge PvE only. There are SO many PvE only skills, why not make those skills PvE only aswell?
    Chicombo are there aswell, infinite survival skills, you literally CANT kill a HP-Veno 1v1. And the worst thing is, a Vit veno still has the kill potential to 1v1 you while you can't do shiit. If they were at least useless except for tanking on HP, it would be fine, but no, they still yeet out insane amounts of damage and can kill you in one combo. Not mentioning other skills they have.
  • drheal
    drheal Posts: 132 Arc User
    Its funny your asking for something to be changed that has been in the game for 10 years. In general venos have been in an ok spot balance wise. Great utility, sucky pet power since event item / boutique power creep. If venos are OP right now, well they deserve their spot in the sun XD
  • mistressmuerta
    mistressmuerta Posts: 152 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    Veno is the curse/status class. Purge is their signature skill. Let's remove BM roar/DG, Cleric IH/Sog,barb faith/arma crit shenanigans, SB vortex/debuff ect. Pets die easily even with deaden nerves buff from primal heal. Chi combo requires set up and is'nt spammable. The survival skills cost chi. 2 sparks every bramble hood and 1 spark per barrier since most tack a yellow or green glyph on it. Range is lost when in fox. Equipping an item for - chan has nothing to do with one class(take your fallacy elsewhere). Anyone can do this. Clerics/SB have built in - chan on some skills for a free 10 secs. Don't exaggerate the nova amp. It's 20% unless its verdant glyphed and lvl 8 is only 40%. No more feral anti-stun so the free set up on anything is gone. 0 proc should have remained random but now that you know when its coming and that its going to be in c/d for over a minute counter play is optional. expel, faith, def charm, mystics spamming puri plant in mass. Did everyone get tired about crying over sin zerk or spammable seeker combo?
    Post edited by mistressmuerta on
  • memegirl2
    memegirl2 Posts: 114 Arc User
    Woow, kangykangy....sounds like you got killed by venos (s) and cant stand the heat! Awesome! we must be doing things right! Thank You for the compliments! Go go go go Veno's!!
  • blazerboy
    blazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    drheal wrote: »
    Its funny your asking for something to be changed that has been in the game for 10 years. In general venos have been in an ok spot balance wise. Great utility, sucky pet power since event item / boutique power creep. If venos are OP right now, well they deserve their spot in the sun XD

    Venos have always been in a ok spot. Pets literally being an extra stun, okay they don’t do a lot of dd but have you seen how weak any other class with a pet is? Lmfao..... That doesn’t justify almost no windows with damage reduction off and a massive utility to kill ppl while maintaining tanky qualities. Removing purge is excessive however chi combo was bad enough but to add 0 def too is bs.

    .
    Veno is the curse/status class. Purge is their signature skill. Let's remove BM roar/DG, Cleric IH/Sog,barb faith/arma crit shenanigans, SB vortex/debuff ect. Pets die easily even with deaden nerves buff from primal heal. Chi combo requires set up and is'nt spammable. The survival skills cost chi. 2 sparks every bramble hood and 1 spark per barrier since most tack a yellow or green glyph on it. Range is lost when in fox. Equipping an item for - chan has nothing to do with one class(take your fallacy elsewhere). Anyone can do this. Clerics/SB have built in - chan on some skills for a free 10 secs. Don't exaggerate the nova amp. It's 20% unless its verdant glyphed and lvl 8 is only 40%. No more feral anti-stun so the free set up on anything is gone. 0 proc should have remained random but now that you know when its coming and that its going to be in c/d for over a minute counter play is optional. expel, faith, def charm, mystics spamming puri plant in mass. Did everyone get tired about crying over sin zerk or spammable seeker combo?

    Did you just say an aoe freeze/stun/ and a whopping 40% as only? Literally can do this from max range from the sky basically making it impossible to avoid? If someone seeks you with that 40% that’s you taking a lot more dd not to mention add a crit in there. Plus you can do this safely from max range while a bm has to run in. The channel neck is useable by any class but do everyone has a 9 second basically stun/amp every 30 seconds? Chi issues are a thing of the past with paramounts and if you’re a sage veno you never had chi issues in the first place. God venos are just as pretentious as sins at this point, literally everyone but a sin will say a sins op and now venos doing the same lol.

    Counter play is optional? You have absolutely no affinity for coordinating pvp if you believe this. Example, have someone use a multi hit skill (db,sin,tech,ER,)and then use 0 def mid cast target dies before you even see the debuff. Also if the veno is max range or above you, how are you going to notice it if you’re being attacked by more than one person? The only way to truely block it is if the veno or squad doesn’t actually capitalize off it effectively, therefore USER ERROR. Doesn’t make it conventional defense. Also mystic puri is change based if I recall unless that was changed. The fact is often when you get 0 def you die before you notice it or by the time it’s noticed it’s often too late. Human error and actually overpowered aren’t the same. If a player is proficient 0 def is unavoidable and offers extreme advantages.

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  • alphadevil1991
    alphadevil1991 Posts: 89 Arc User
    kangykangy wrote: »
    Chicombo are there aswell, infinite survival skills, you literally CANT kill a HP-Veno 1v1. And the worst thing is, a Vit veno still has the kill potential to 1v1 you while you can't do shiit. If they were at least useless except for tanking on HP, it would be fine, but no, they still yeet out insane amounts of damage and can kill you in one combo.

    wanna try a veno on an equal geared sin? i give the sin better chances if both players are kinda equal good on their gameplay.
    every class has their nemesis. sins can have hard times against good ER, SB or seeker (just for example).
  • fury85
    fury85 Posts: 277 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    kangykangy wrote: »
    Chicombo are there aswell, infinite survival skills, you literally CANT kill a HP-Veno 1v1. And the worst thing is, a Vit veno still has the kill potential to 1v1 you while you can't do shiit. If they were at least useless except for tanking on HP, it would be fine, but no, they still yeet out insane amounts of damage and can kill you in one combo.

    wanna try a veno on an equal geared sin? i give the sin better chances if both players are kinda equal good on their gameplay.
    every class has their nemesis. sins can have hard times against good ER, SB or seeker (just for example).

    True. In 1v1 is different, but in mass PvP (99% of the PvP events) Venomancer are too OP. 0 def on the tank/target in mass PvP is impossible to counter except they forgot to cc or none AA and you have your genie/spark ready or for some unbelievable luck cleric cast purify in that 0.1 sec time before the target get 451245464k of damage. A skill that guaranteed a 1 shot on any kind of class/gears without any efforts is pretty stupid.
    Roar_King
    Level 105 Barbarian with Deity Stone
  • fury85
    fury85 Posts: 277 Arc User
    Imho, changes I will do for PWI.

    My think is:
    1) You want be tanky? Ok, but you can’t DD.
    2) You want be DD? Ok, but you can’t tank.

    Just the fact to have class that can be full vitality and def level and have chance to kill players in easy way is wrong on my eyes.

    Barbarian > change golden glyph Violent Triumph
    More than Faith, the real broken skill that make the barb a Para > Armageddon bot is Violent Triumph. Without Violent Triumph, faith is just a survival skill or you can just do some AoE while in Invoke if Strength build.
    Mystic > remove genie disable or limit to max 5 seconds
    20 seconds genie disable is too broken, counting that with the huge cc, genie is the only saves 90% of the time.
    Venomancer > remove 0 def proc. Its stupid, nothing to say. It was stupid on chance, it is more stupid with 100% chance. Remove or nerf chi combo. Just lv.8 glyph on that skill is strong, wait that someone get Lv.10 glyph and will be another guaranteed 1 shot skill.
    Seeker > change the def level debuff, make some way that work with attack level instead of def level.
    Assassin > remove paralyze, they got already too much damage.
    Duskblade > remove the chance to reset CDs of the skills

    I don't know new class so... will wait...
    Roar_King
    Level 105 Barbarian with Deity Stone
  • anyseek
    anyseek Posts: 7 Arc User
    just remove venos from game so all cry babies can be satisfied :) mellee classes already a way too hard to fight for venos...all of them. Now you cry a river cuz venos finaly got ONE usable skill?Are you forget hood is already removed from pk? so...just remove venos from game or remove 0 def ,0 chi whatever makes all cry babies happy ,and make venos ez prey for others and were all be happy ... ty Any
  • alphadevil1991
    alphadevil1991 Posts: 89 Arc User
    remove all classes with any debuffs... oh wait only psy would be left
  • blazerboy
    blazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    anyseek wrote: »
    just remove venos from game so all cry babies can be satisfied :) mellee classes already a way too hard to fight for venos...all of them. Now you cry a river cuz venos finaly got ONE usable skill?Are you forget hood is already removed from pk? so...just remove venos from game or remove 0 def ,0 chi whatever makes all cry babies happy ,and make venos ez prey for others and were all be happy ... ty Any

    Removed from pk? It reduces damage taken significantly. Also. Only one useable skill? You either are extremely outgeared or have never actually pked if you think they have have 1 useable skill lmfao. I challenge someone to prove ANY aoe is as versatile as nova even 1. Because HF is an amp but doesn’t come with cc built in, storm supercell with aoe paralyze is only 3 seconds at lvl8 for 2 sparks, Bm roar is fairly predictable and a simple fortify can solve this with a minimal amount of genie energy. But a single cc with 3 powerful debuffs together along with the ability to raise the amp % for what 8-9 seconds while keeping ppl cced and amp and you dare say 1? Guess we can ignore purge,amp, hell even Fox form gives you a stupid amount of defense almost 100% of the time available where sb/db has a long cd, hell even barbs get a marginal amount of hp however considering at endgame barb v endgame casters they get nuked for all that no gain with no debuffs. Your comment literally ignored all the great utility the class has lmfao, adding 0 def just make is just impossible for many.



    fury85 wrote: »
    Imho, changes I will do for PWI.

    My think is:
    1) You want be tanky? Ok, but you can’t DD.
    2) You want be DD? Ok, but you can’t tank.

    Just the fact to have class that can be full vitality and def level and have chance to kill players in easy way is wrong on my eyes.

    Barbarian > change golden glyph Violent Triumph
    More than Faith, the real broken skill that make the barb a Para > Armageddon bot is Violent Triumph. Without Violent Triumph, faith is just a survival skill or you can just do some AoE while in Invoke if Strength build.
    Mystic > remove genie disable or limit to max 5 seconds
    20 seconds genie disable is too broken, counting that with the huge cc, genie is the only saves 90% of the time.
    Venomancer > remove 0 def proc. Its stupid, nothing to say. It was stupid on chance, it is more stupid with 100% chance. Remove or nerf chi combo. Just lv.8 glyph on that skill is strong, wait that someone get Lv.10 glyph and will be another guaranteed 1 shot skill.
    Seeker > change the def level debuff, make some way that work with attack level instead of def level.
    Assassin > remove paralyze, they got already too much damage.
    Duskblade > remove the chance to reset CDs of the skills

    I don't know new class so... will wait...

    Mystic
    I think mystic genie block is fine tbh, it’s single target and with healing, and if you’re decently geared a lot of times you can outlive the debuff. While this has a lot of luck it makes this skill far less game breaking as 0
    Def. while I do think 20 seconds is too long, 10 is more than enough if timed correctly.

    Seeker
    While this debuff was fine before it does need rework and regulation because 80 def weps gives this class a massive advantage. An easy fix make SS slash cap at a certain number, maybe 150 def lvl or even perhaps do not allow it to drop below 0 def lvl however in its current state, everytime they give us def lvls it’s more of a curse than a healthy addition to the game. I don’t believe making it based on attack level will solve it, however I agree that would be better than now.

    Duskblade
    No this class has already gotten what 2 nerf patches? Enough is enough, it’s already so negligible in pk now it doesn’t need anymore nerfs. The disarm nerf alone made it extremely difficult.

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  • anyseek
    anyseek Posts: 7 Arc User
    blazerboy wrote: »
    anyseek wrote: »
    just remove venos from game so all cry babies can be satisfied :) mellee classes already a way too hard to fight for venos...all of them. Now you cry a river cuz venos finaly got ONE usable skill?Are you forget hood is already removed from pk? so...just remove venos from game or remove 0 def ,0 chi whatever makes all cry babies happy ,and make venos ez prey for others and were all be happy ... ty Any

    Removed from pk? It reduces damage taken significantly. Also. Only one useable skill? You either are extremely outgeared or have never actually pked if you think they have have 1 useable skill lmfao. I challenge someone to prove ANY aoe is as versatile as nova even 1. Because HF is an amp but doesn’t come with cc built in, storm supercell with aoe paralyze is only 3 seconds at lvl8 for 2 sparks, Bm roar is fairly predictable and a simple fortify can solve this with a minimal amount of genie energy. But a single cc with 3 powerful debuffs together along with the ability to raise the amp % for what 8-9 seconds while keeping ppl cced and amp and you dare say 1? Guess we can ignore purge,amp, hell even Fox form gives you a stupid amount of defense almost 100% of the time available where sb/db has a long cd, hell even barbs get a marginal amount of hp however considering at endgame barb v endgame casters they get nuked for all that no gain with no debuffs. Your comment literally ignored all the great utility the class has lmfao, adding 0 def just make is just impossible for many.



    fury85 wrote: »
    Imho, changes I will do for PWI.

    My think is:
    1) You want be tanky? Ok, but you can’t DD.
    2) You want be DD? Ok, but you can’t tank.

    Just the fact to have class that can be full vitality and def level and have chance to kill players in easy way is wrong on my eyes.

    Barbarian > change golden glyph Violent Triumph
    More than Faith, the real broken skill that make the barb a Para > Armageddon bot is Violent Triumph. Without Violent Triumph, faith is just a survival skill or you can just do some AoE while in Invoke if Strength build.
    Mystic > remove genie disable or limit to max 5 seconds
    20 seconds genie disable is too broken, counting that with the huge cc, genie is the only saves 90% of the time.
    Venomancer > remove 0 def proc. Its stupid, nothing to say. It was stupid on chance, it is more stupid with 100% chance. Remove or nerf chi combo. Just lv.8 glyph on that skill is strong, wait that someone get Lv.10 glyph and will be another guaranteed 1 shot skill.
    Seeker > change the def level debuff, make some way that work with attack level instead of def level.
    Assassin > remove paralyze, they got already too much damage.
    Duskblade > remove the chance to reset CDs of the skills

    I don't know new class so... will wait...

    Mystic
    I think mystic genie block is fine tbh, it’s single target and with healing, and if you’re decently geared a lot of times you can outlive the debuff. While this has a lot of luck it makes this skill far less game breaking as 0
    Def. while I do think 20 seconds is too long, 10 is more than enough if timed correctly.

    Seeker
    While this debuff was fine before it does need rework and regulation because 80 def weps gives this class a massive advantage. An easy fix make SS slash cap at a certain number, maybe 150 def lvl or even perhaps do not allow it to drop below 0 def lvl however in its current state, everytime they give us def lvls it’s more of a curse than a healthy addition to the game. I don’t believe making it based on attack level will solve it, however I agree that would be better than now.

    Duskblade
    No this class has already gotten what 2 nerf patches? Enough is enough, it’s already so negligible in pk now it doesn’t need anymore nerfs. The disarm nerf alone made it extremely difficult.

    looks like youre not play veno,right? yea i never PK-ed ,you can ask anyone on Et server LOL i like how you know how veno has Nova (with 3 sec chan and you can pury ez),how has amp ,and ofc...PURGE ...Now ...how you think a veno kill anyone? purge him till death?or you think veno should be just a debuffer and turtle whole life,cuz veno has no ANY PK self buff ,must be venos too OP to get some pk buffs? no need to mention against sins ...theres only a chance to anything go trough tidal ,and...you need to live to have just a CHANCE to purge sin,amp,change form,cast nova with so long chan ,and at the end...sin can just faith or 3x spark to pury all that LOOOL so basicaly you did ....nothing? Thats why i said veno got 1 useable PK skill(still tidal can avoid it and can be puried) ,kinda too much , cuz no one expect ...veno can kill anyone,right? plz play a veno and start talking...ty,bai
  • blazerboy
    blazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    anyseek wrote: »
    blazerboy wrote: »
    anyseek wrote: »
    just remove venos from game so all cry babies can be satisfied :) mellee classes already a way too hard to fight for venos...all of them. Now you cry a river cuz venos finaly got ONE usable skill?Are you forget hood is already removed from pk? so...just remove venos from game or remove 0 def ,0 chi whatever makes all cry babies happy ,and make venos ez prey for others and were all be happy ... ty Any

    Removed from pk? It reduces damage taken significantly. Also. Only one useable skill? You either are extremely outgeared or have never actually pked if you think they have have 1 useable skill lmfao. I challenge someone to prove ANY aoe is as versatile as nova even 1. Because HF is an amp but doesn’t come with cc built in, storm supercell with aoe paralyze is only 3 seconds at lvl8 for 2 sparks, Bm roar is fairly predictable and a simple fortify can solve this with a minimal amount of genie energy. But a single cc with 3 powerful debuffs together along with the ability to raise the amp % for what 8-9 seconds while keeping ppl cced and amp and you dare say 1? Guess we can ignore purge,amp, hell even Fox form gives you a stupid amount of defense almost 100% of the time available where sb/db has a long cd, hell even barbs get a marginal amount of hp however considering at endgame barb v endgame casters they get nuked for all that no gain with no debuffs. Your comment literally ignored all the great utility the class has lmfao, adding 0 def just make is just impossible for many.



    fury85 wrote: »
    Imho, changes I will do for PWI.

    My think is:
    1) You want be tanky? Ok, but you can’t DD.
    2) You want be DD? Ok, but you can’t tank.

    Just the fact to have class that can be full vitality and def level and have chance to kill players in easy way is wrong on my eyes.

    Barbarian > change golden glyph Violent Triumph
    More than Faith, the real broken skill that make the barb a Para > Armageddon bot is Violent Triumph. Without Violent Triumph, faith is just a survival skill or you can just do some AoE while in Invoke if Strength build.
    Mystic > remove genie disable or limit to max 5 seconds
    20 seconds genie disable is too broken, counting that with the huge cc, genie is the only saves 90% of the time.
    Venomancer > remove 0 def proc. Its stupid, nothing to say. It was stupid on chance, it is more stupid with 100% chance. Remove or nerf chi combo. Just lv.8 glyph on that skill is strong, wait that someone get Lv.10 glyph and will be another guaranteed 1 shot skill.
    Seeker > change the def level debuff, make some way that work with attack level instead of def level.
    Assassin > remove paralyze, they got already too much damage.
    Duskblade > remove the chance to reset CDs of the skills

    I don't know new class so... will wait...

    Mystic
    I think mystic genie block is fine tbh, it’s single target and with healing, and if you’re decently geared a lot of times you can outlive the debuff. While this has a lot of luck it makes this skill far less game breaking as 0
    Def. while I do think 20 seconds is too long, 10 is more than enough if timed correctly.

    Seeker
    While this debuff was fine before it does need rework and regulation because 80 def weps gives this class a massive advantage. An easy fix make SS slash cap at a certain number, maybe 150 def lvl or even perhaps do not allow it to drop below 0 def lvl however in its current state, everytime they give us def lvls it’s more of a curse than a healthy addition to the game. I don’t believe making it based on attack level will solve it, however I agree that would be better than now.

    Duskblade
    No this class has already gotten what 2 nerf patches? Enough is enough, it’s already so negligible in pk now it doesn’t need anymore nerfs. The disarm nerf alone made it extremely difficult.

    looks like youre not play veno,right? yea i never PK-ed ,you can ask anyone on Et server LOL i like how you know how veno has Nova (with 3 sec chan and you can pury ez),how has amp ,and ofc...PURGE ...Now ...how you think a veno kill anyone? purge him till death?or you think veno should be just a debuffer and turtle whole life,cuz veno has no ANY PK self buff ,must be venos too OP to get some pk buffs? no need to mention against sins ...theres only a chance to anything go trough tidal ,and...you need to live to have just a CHANCE to purge sin,amp,change form,cast nova with so long chan ,and at the end...sin can just faith or 3x spark to pury all that LOOOL so basicaly you did ....nothing? Thats why i said veno got 1 useable PK skill(still tidal can avoid it and can be puried) ,kinda too much , cuz no one expect ...veno can kill anyone,right? plz play a veno and start talking...ty,bai


    You can purify nova easy? While use a major genie skill like faith? Or should we all puri while in the middle of a cc? Makes perfect sense yup, mystic aoe puri is chance based if I recall and that basically leaves you to have a psy who was thankfully out of range in squad and can readily run over to cast bubble of life assuming he’s nearby but didn’t get caught up in it. This sounds anywhere near practical to you? That’s like saying a cleric should just be able to outheal the damage of several ppl. You were getting heals right why did you die? Lmfao the level of pretentious.

    No pk self buff? What do you think the damage reduction from bramble hood, blazing barrier, and the immense pdef you get from Fox form means? Those are self buffs lmfao! Have you tried being an archer,sb, hell even bp isn’t really useful in most situations in pk but hopefully you will have a mob nearby in tw or arena. Get over yourself lmfao, literally discounting all the good things a veno has but forgetting no other classes have a guaranteed Delete button or even a chance to reduce mdef to damn near 0. But I guess we have pdef,mdef reduction to 0 or damn near close to it along with chi combo too in our back pocket. Lmfao Please read veno skills before you talk about what you lack comparatively to other classes.

    14 classes in this game and you talk about 1 class who can avoid 0 def? If we are being actually rational, techs can too but does that mean we are all what 2 classes? But I can be fair let’s say ER too even though for them it’s harder still more doable than most so let’s say 2-3 classes out of 14 have a decent chance against it while the rest are just screwed yup balanced.

    By this logic you may aswell give everyone a delete button skill right? Oh wait venos will need 2 to be considered fair huh xD... But don’t they have chi.....? Nvm venos need everything because hey are struggling so much right? LMFAO
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  • dingo488
    dingo488 Posts: 936 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    You guys are too serious. Let's play a little game for the holiday spirit!
    I'm gonna write 4 statements and only 1 of them is wrong, let's see if you can figure out which one is wrong.

    A. Venos have always been the most OP class in the game, why are you crying about this now.
    B. Demon Ironwood was better, but Venos are too trash at the game to properly use it on the correct targets. The only reason new 0pdef is an issue because it's 100x easier to use so even the furry roleplayers cant fk it up.
    C. New 0pdef is a lot easier to counter than the old 0pdef but people are too blind to identify when they are being targetted; are too slow to react; fail to properly communicate to their clerics they are being targetted; clerics are too trash at the game to properly identify when and what to purify and will get butthurt when you tell them anything.
    D. 0pdef is fun for everyone involved.



    IGN: Madskillz
  • blazerboy
    blazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    dingo488 wrote: »
    You guys are too serious. Let's play a little game for the holiday spirit!
    I'm gonna write 4 statements and only 1 of them is wrong, let's see if you can figure out which one is wrong.

    A. Venos have always been the most OP class in the game, why are you crying about this now.
    B. Demon Ironwood was better, but Venos are too trash at the game to properly use it on the correct targets. The only reason new 0pdef is an issue because it's 100x easier to use so even the furry roleplayers cant fk it up.
    C. New 0pdef is a lot easier to counter than the old 0pdef but people are too blind to identify when they are being targetted; are too slow to react; fail to properly communicate to their clerics they are being targetted; clerics are too trash at the game to properly identify when and what to purify and will get butthurt when you tell them anything.
    D. 0pdef is fun for everyone involved.

    It’s hard not to laugh when venos have been a formidable class for years and he’s swearing they finally got something? Lmfao

    A. They have always been powerful I don’t think overpowered. It’s like the sin of arcanes, refuse to not giving them atleast something good in an update.

    B. Demon ironwood was annoying enough but I would prefer it’s removal entirely

    C. If a veno uses mid a phy class is attacking a toon not preemptively the target dies before the game can register 0 def on your status bar lol. 0 Def relies heavily on communication and most of the fail attempts to kill using it was a result of human error, the skill has very little flaws.

    D. Correct answer
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  • fury85
    fury85 Posts: 277 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    Don't take bad my comment... I even think about mass PvP.
    0 def actually destroy any tank build. From a barb pulling a catapult / tanking a dragon where you can't prevent or most the time you can't see a 0 def coming while tanking X players. Or as an high targeted support class (cleric for example), you can't prevent most the time a 0 def coming with a sin AA the veno or you can't save your genie only for that scenario.
    That skill destroy part of the game strategy in mass PvP, makes all the tank/support class almost useless.

    Then... for most players that play non-key class in mass PvP or simply playing DD builds that requires alot less effort to be killed... I know well they don't see the difference between old demon Ironwood and new 0 def proc.
    Roar_King
    Level 105 Barbarian with Deity Stone
  • riveter15
    riveter15 Posts: 6 Arc User
    I'm sorry but can people stop cry in a beginning I thought is OP skill but after few trials is so many ways to pury that this skill is nothing special. Second thing u talking about tank builds. I want to see you killing g17 barb +3 Def shard when he has full support from behind. I will tell you good luck. So that skill increase the chance to contra that kind of build.
  • blazerboy
    blazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    riveter15 wrote: »
    I'm sorry but can people stop cry in a beginning I thought is OP skill but after few trials is so many ways to pury that this skill is nothing special. Second thing u talking about tank builds. I want to see you killing g17 barb +3 Def shard when he has full support from behind. I will tell you good luck. So that skill increase the chance to contra that kind of build.

    Saying sorry then insulting ppl is called a backhand apology, really makes more sense to just insult ppl without the fake apology lol. G17 +3 def barbs died all the time so long you killed their support, hell at times even died through heals though it’s not idea it was just too much damage.

    By “trials” did you factor the idea of a character being ganked and 0 Def came in, how do you expect someone to defend exactly? “Nothing special” another hypothetical, a sin and veno working together, sin says he’s about to cj and uses then after his lead cast IW, the character will die before the debuff even registers on its buff/debuff area. Nothing special?

    It’s literally unavoidable if used correctly, not just thrown at a random target and hope someone AA off you like that even makes remote sense in mass pk (This is generally the argument venos make to say it’s fine, yet do ridiculous things such as this). That doesn’t prove the skill is not beyond broken, it just proves the user doesn’t know how to properly assess a situation, not all venos are guilty of this but it appears many are.
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  • mistressmuerta
    mistressmuerta Posts: 152 Arc User
    Why cherry pick points from a reply? Most veno run red glyph on nova (20% amp ) to save chi, so it is unlikely you are running into green glyph amp 40% veno because it's 2 sparks to cast. Failure on communication if your squad's db/sin isnt keeping the veno locked down. Hard to keep your chi up with a sin or db harassing you. Veno isn't swapping forms for chi if it's blowing threw it all on barrier/hood and expelling in between. All your genie chants are going right back to the next bramble. Both sin and db can teleport past caster range so no issues getting in. Their role is literally to slip past the front lines and take out/harass support classes. Again veno lose access to their offensive skill tree and have to get in mele range in fox form so the trade off for def is necessary. SB/DB do not lose offensive access. Veno's getting in free purge/debuffs/set up is gone thanks to feral nerf. Mystic thicket can do the same thing as nova. SB can reduce mdef to 0 with ulti+100skill/debuff. The (puri plant) like i stated before is 100% chance to purify and can be cast at range to the target. They aren't removing 0 proc because its not chance based/spammable and in most cases not the veno doing the killing. It's the skill combined with other classes. There are plenty of classes that can coordinate 1 shot combos. Nerfs happen when a single class has an out right advantage over all the others db nerf prime example. The chi combo is 230 chi every 30 seconds with lvl 8 unless ur a demon. Since paramounts seem to be so abundant why not cast chant whenever you are hit by chi burn. You may not be able to kill the veno but guess who is now predictable and not able to kill you? No veno is ever going to 1 shot anyone with chi combo from full chi even with a lvl 10 glyph without using chi siphon(166 energy) which is a trade off for potential genie save. Chi combo isn't going anywhere either because it requires set up and is heavily reliant on hp.
  • blazerboy
    blazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    Why cherry pick points from a reply? Most veno run red glyph on nova (20% amp ) to save chi, so it is unlikely you are running into green glyph amp 40% veno because it's 2 sparks to cast. Failure on communication if your squad's db/sin isnt keeping the veno locked down. Hard to keep your chi up with a sin or db harassing you. Veno isn't swapping forms for chi if it's blowing threw it all on barrier/hood and expelling in between. All your genie chants are going right back to the next bramble. Both sin and db can teleport past caster range so no issues getting in. Their role is literally to slip past the front lines and take out/harass support classes. Again veno lose access to their offensive skill tree and have to get in mele range in fox form so the trade off for def is necessary. SB/DB do not lose offensive access. Veno's getting in free purge/debuffs/set up is gone thanks to feral nerf. Mystic thicket can do the same thing as nova. SB can reduce mdef to 0 with ulti+100skill/debuff. The (puri plant) like i stated before is 100% chance to purify and can be cast at range to the target. They aren't removing 0 proc because its not chance based/spammable and in most cases not the veno doing the killing. It's the skill combined with other classes. There are plenty of classes that can coordinate 1 shot combos. Nerfs happen when a single class has an out right advantage over all the others db nerf prime example. The chi combo is 230 chi every 30 seconds with lvl 8 unless ur a demon. Since paramounts seem to be so abundant why not cast chant whenever you are hit by chi burn. You may not be able to kill the veno but guess who is now predictable and not able to kill you? No veno is ever going to 1 shot anyone with chi combo from full chi even with a lvl 10 glyph without using chi siphon(166 energy) which is a trade off for potential genie save. Chi combo isn't going anywhere either because it requires set up and is heavily reliant on hp.

    So for sb, you’re comparing 5min cd skill(ulti) perigean tide 3min cd and cloudburst. Which btw all 3 together does not 0 mdef but for the sake of arguement nice try. 3 skills 2 with a lot longer of a cooldown than 0 pdef that’s actually 0 def vs basically increase damage. 1 guaranteed kill vs 3 skills that must be used in succession to hope for a kill you probably won’t get lmfao, not even going to explain why this isn’t the same or nearly similar. Go find a equal gear sb do all 3 skills on you and hit 2x no def charms and fully buffed guarantee you more often times than not you will not die lol.

    Your solution to 0 def is have a sin/db babysit a veno? Hypothetically speaking even if one did by slipping past into the backline, if you ever played either of those classes you would know you’re not doing that for any true extensive amount of time unless the target is fairly squishy and a +2 veno vit build (many fall under this so using as an example) physical will do fairly little against them. So essentially what? Stall until their enemies kill db/sin so the veno can continue keeping the 0 defs coming? Lmfao nobody is saying veno must be removed but advocating to keep a delete button is absurd.

    Are you really going to pretend 2 sparks is a lot of chi on a class that can generate a massive amount of chi, and if you add the fact paramounts are basically meta if you are stressed for chi as a veno, besides sin play any class and I would love you to tell me currently venos have chi management issues lmfao, especially sage ones. If you don’t see the holes in the chi combo argument especially with watching kitashi videos on YouTube waste max gear toons like Darcy or endgame Sins alone while having like 1/3 of the gear using chi combo than there’s no point trying to convince you of anything. Chi combo is bs but it was just a major annoyance but to have 0 def and chi combo and nova that can be glyphed up to an additional 40% more TRUE damage not the bs mag/phy reduction but true raw damage in one class? GGWP
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  • anyseek
    anyseek Posts: 7 Arc User
    very funny when someone call a 15 sec buff like hood and barrier whos cost 1-2 spark...PK buff LOOOL and ...are you realy tryin to compare them to ...verdant shell,marrow,1min faith,tidal...REALY??? best option to you is...make a veno and play it so you can stay on only 1660 posts no need to blah blah moar on forum,cuz ...youll be so so OP against all other classes ROFL ...bai from Anythefox who probably has more hours in Pk then you has in game ;)
  • hoshichan
    hoshichan Posts: 175 Arc User
    anyseek wrote: »
    very funny when someone call a 15 sec buff like hood and barrier whos cost 1-2 spark...PK buff LOOOL and ...are you realy tryin to compare them to ...verdant shell,marrow,1min faith,tidal...REALY??? best option to you is...make a veno and play it so you can stay on only 1660 posts no need to blah blah moar on forum,cuz ...youll be so so OP against all other classes ROFL ...bai from Anythefox who probably has more hours in Pk then you has in game ;)

    have you ever reached 2000 score with your deity build garbage gameplay?
  • notanyfox#3644
    notanyfox#3644 Posts: 190 Arc User
    anythefox / @anyseek is the Joe of etherblade server. Big mouth, small brain, always gets rekt and complains about gear and his class being weak :D
    Stupidity at its finest :
    "Deity sin vs Josd Dusk -> Dusk wins.
    Josd sin vs deity dusk -> Sin wins by far."
    Special Kid Joe 2016
  • mistressmuerta
    mistressmuerta Posts: 152 Arc User
    Still cherry picking points for your replies. Mystic "thicket" can do the same thing as "nova." Puri plant can be cast at range and nullifies any debuff a veno can throw at you. If one sin or db is fighting the veno what are the other two people doing. Sin/db have more than enough escapes if they mess up and focus gets redirected at them. Most of the time the veno gets SOG'd then slept. That is your teams fault if they die in a 2v2. Glyph on SB magic debuff and combining the 3 skills is -241-248 mdef. A character would have 0 water or metal def depending on which orbs you use. Have u tried it cuz its the same principle for when wiz had fire combo. 0 def is 0 def whether its magical or physical. Its going to hit hard. When 0 proc had a 8 sec cool down time could have been an argument but now saves are out of c/d with this version. 2 sparks is a lot of chi especially if a majority of your saves/offense cost 1-2 sparks. Veno have chi when noone is harassing them. That's why support is always in the air cuz ppl dont seem to look up. There are no holes you just ran out of points to argue for crush vigor. The people kitashi has killed using chi combo were all due to them using skills that put their chi in range to be killed. You can't 1 shot with chi combo from full chi without siphon. You cant do it at all as a sage without the ulti. If you harass a veno and they have to keep using expell or other skills u cant use siphon making the chi combo even easier to counter. If you dont have the damage to kill the veno don't use spark skills. You can survive anything a vit veno can throw at you. Use chant whenever chi burn hits you. Sure you cant kill them but they wont be able to kill you either. If you cant get back the 30 chi u lost in the 30 seconds until the next drain window you have some problems. Kitashi also tanks so much because she is flying low to the ground half the time for a free -50% dmg to compliment the def build. People are just foolish enough to fight her from air to ground. 0 proc is not going anywhere because its not giving one class an advantage. That is how nerfs happen (one) class gets an advantage over all the others. Every complaint is the veno did this and then the insert class did X. There are too many classes that can deal physical damage for them to do that. People are just crying because one person beat them to the punch. A vit veno AA follow up on 0 proc damage is laughable. Make a veno in the build calc go full vit and use AA on a target with same spirit/def lvl ect. Contrary to popular belief the dev's actually ran balancing tests before implementing these changes. That is why feral concentration is nerfed. It was the only set up skill with no counter.
  • blazerboy
    blazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    By this logic I suppose we all just 1v1 in mass pk so it’s very telegraphed and obvious to counter 0 def, this is an uphill battle.
    hoshichan wrote: »
    anyseek wrote: »
    very funny when someone call a 15 sec buff like hood and barrier whos cost 1-2 spark...PK buff LOOOL and ...are you realy tryin to compare them to ...verdant shell,marrow,1min faith,tidal...REALY??? best option to you is...make a veno and play it so you can stay on only 1660 posts no need to blah blah moar on forum,cuz ...youll be so so OP against all other classes ROFL ...bai from Anythefox who probably has more hours in Pk then you has in game ;)

    have you ever reached 2000 score with your deity build garbage gameplay?

    This explains so much
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  • anyseek
    anyseek Posts: 7 Arc User
    blazerboy wrote: »
    By this logic I suppose we all just 1v1 in mass pk so it’s very telegraphed and obvious to counter 0 def, this is an uphill battle.
    hoshichan wrote: »
    anyseek wrote: »
    very funny when someone call a 15 sec buff like hood and barrier whos cost 1-2 spark...PK buff LOOOL and ...are you realy tryin to compare them to ...verdant shell,marrow,1min faith,tidal...REALY??? best option to you is...make a veno and play it so you can stay on only 1660 posts no need to blah blah moar on forum,cuz ...youll be so so OP against all other classes ROFL ...bai from Anythefox who probably has more hours in Pk then you has in game ;)

    have you ever reached 2000 score with your deity build garbage gameplay?

    This explains so much

    my best score was 2100+ ,but...do you guys talking about 0 def,or...just another e peen measuring contest? its funny how no name haters came up as fast as i mention who i am LOL ... whatever im out of this ,keep up with gj :)
  • mistressmuerta
    mistressmuerta Posts: 152 Arc User
    blazerboy wrote: »
    By this logic I suppose we all just 1v1 in mass pk so it’s very telegraphed and obvious to counter 0 def, this is an uphill battle.

    Its not the logic that is literally how the game is intended to be played. The reality is you just want it to be telegraphed. That is why certain classes have counters. In mass each class is supposed to coordinate a role to win. Every target doesn't need to be killed. Just disabled long enough for your team to get your objective. In a 1v1 IW is telegraphed so no reason to not be able to counter it on that front. In mass you need to have the counter classes doing their jobs. Have you considered builds because a majority of the classes following up on 0 proc have absurdly high attack levels where most of the caster builds are def level. That's why a vit veno hitting after 0 proc not even remotely close to the amount of damage as a sin/db/archer hitting after. Take a hit from a metal dmg dealing class at 0 metal def. Similar damage range. If anything the true issue here is attack levels need a cap because it's scaling has no upper limit where def levels do.