Scheduled Server Maintenance [ 2/27/2018 - 11 PM PT]

kalystconquerer#0876
kalystconquerer#0876 Posts: 1,421 Perfect World Employee
in Official Announcements
Good evening PWI players!

We will be having our regular server maintenance tonight at 11pm PT. Tonight's maintenance will have no patch, restart only!

*Tentative Duration*

Maintenance is expected to last approximately 4 hours, so during that time you will not be able to access the live servers.
*Maintenance times are tentative and are subject to change at any time. Actual end times will vary depending on the progress of the maintenance.

Thank you for your patience and we apologize for the inconvenience.

- The PWI Crew
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Comments

  • shaibya#9251
    shaibya#9251 Posts: 75 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    They actually going to fix the multi-clienting issue and put it back to the way it was now. You did put in an announcment back a week or two ago that they were going to put it back when they came back, so is this happening or was that a lie considering you didn't mention it in this post.

    "Dear PWI Community,

    With the recent events involving the disabling of multi-clienting, we understand that you are upset.
    Please understand that these measures were necessary – but – are also temporary, as your ability to multi-client will be fully restored once the developers return from Chinese New Year.

    In the meantime, we ask for your support as we want nothing more than for you to resume your normal gameplay activities.


    Thank you for understanding."
  • mikkeed
    mikkeed Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    laurastaker wrote: »
    They actually going to fix the multi-clienting issue and put it back to the way it was now. You did put in an announcment back a week or two ago that they were going to put it back when CN came back, so is this happening or was that a lie?

    The usual silent treatment from PW is what we have come to expect... That and "emergency" server maintenance that was supposedly "well thought out and discussed heavily" turned out to kill the game for a TON of people... Rip PWI
  • shaibya#9251
    shaibya#9251 Posts: 75 Arc User
    Well a lot of people have been holding out to see if they actually keep to their word and fix it. So I want to know if they are going to fix it since the New Year is over, if not, that whole announcment was nothing but lies. So do tell us, are they going to put it back to the way it was or was it a lie?
  • jadasia
    jadasia Posts: 520 Arc User
    laurastaker wrote: »
    They actually going to fix the multi-clienting issue and put it back to the way it was now. You did put in an announcment back a week or two ago that they were going to put it back when they came back, so is this happening or was that a lie considering you didn't mention it in this post.

    "Dear PWI Community,

    With the recent events involving the disabling of multi-clienting, we understand that you are upset.
    Please understand that these measures were necessary – but – are also temporary, as your ability to multi-client will be fully restored once the developers return from Chinese New Year.

    In the meantime, we ask for your support as we want nothing more than for you to resume your normal gameplay activities.


    Thank you for understanding."

    You misunderstood. It means that the devs will work to resolve the underlying issue once they are back from the holiday. It does not mean they will restore multi clienting tonight.

    Until then do what everyone else does and kill Arc once you log in your 1st client and start a second client. No big freaking deal
  • shaibya#9251
    shaibya#9251 Posts: 75 Arc User
    No, it says very clearly that it will be fully restored once the Devs are back from the Spring Festival. So that means it should be back tonight, no later. Yes, that's all fine and dandy but it's also very annoying and not only that but a lot of people are locked out of their accounts because of that. So yea, is it getting sorted tonight or was it a lie?
  • mikkeed
    mikkeed Posts: 12 Arc User
    I feel like since it wasn't mentioned, it's prolly not gonna happen and knowing PW and the decline of support and resolving issues has declined, I seriously doubt this will get changed back to the way it was or get upgraded to include supported multi clienting or the ability to force log cause the server won't drop a connection for 15 min....

    I know of a more than a dozen people that are quitting due to these changes... And honestly it's sad
  • wettstyle
    wettstyle Posts: 236 Arc User
    Probally was meant to be once the dev's are back, WORKING on a fix will start lol. Silence has been implemented probz so no more She said, He said bruises occur . Let's hope in the next week people hear some real News.
  • uchijawar
    uchijawar Posts: 59 Arc User
    hey kalyst i just made a forum about the jades what if u make the old jades craft able to new ones so i wont feel wasted time and charm wasted
  • jadasia
    jadasia Posts: 520 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    laurastaker wrote: »
    No, it says very clearly that it will be fully restored once the Devs are back from the Spring Festival. So that means it should be back tonight, no later. Yes, that's all fine and dandy but it's also very annoying and not only that but a lot of people are locked out of their accounts because of that. So yea, is it getting sorted tonight or was it a lie?

    I highly doubt it. Whatever solution the devs make regarding multi clienting it will most certainly be done within Arc.

    That's the way it's been going so expect the solution to involve multi clienting from within Arc and not the way it used to be.

    That being said Arc updates are done separate from PWI server updates and that's why I do not think anything will be rolled back to multi client like you think we will.
  • csquared5
    csquared5 Posts: 153 Arc User
    laurastaker wrote: »
    No, it says very clearly that it will be fully restored once the Devs are back from the Spring Festival. So that means it should be back tonight, no later. Yes, that's all fine and dandy but it's also very annoying and not only that but a lot of people are locked out of their accounts because of that. So yea, is it getting sorted tonight or was it a lie?

    I don't want to accuse you of being an idiot but...

    are you an idiot?!

    Dude. Programming takes TIME. They will start working to resolve issue, but I mean it is completely unrealistic to expect that there is an instant silver bullet magic fix for this. Thank some fellow player who abused multi-clienting so much that PWI had to act to stop it, PWI obviously knew this would be unpopular and I can only imagine they did it because their hand was forced. I'm sure that as soon as our CM here has more concrete information to share with us, she will be happy to do so. She doesn't like leaving us hanging, I think we can say by now that she does her best to keep us informed.

    And as others have said... you can STILL MULTI-CLIENT. Just takes lil more time to open each client now. So stay chill alright? Like me! So chill. (lol)

    P.S TY PWI for the new fashions they are AWESOME.

    »Go back to sleep...« PWI Youtube Channel




  • greenfire312
    greenfire312 Posts: 269 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    jadasia wrote: »
    You misunderstood. It means that the devs will work to resolve the underlying issue once they are back from the holiday. It does not mean they will restore multi clienting tonight.

    Until then do what everyone else does and kill Arc once you log in your 1st client and start a second client. No big freaking deal
    All of this is correct except the (admittedly subjective) part about it not being a big deal just because we can technically still multi-client. We still deserve answers.

    What did the "culprit" actually do? Is his exploit known, and if so, is a patch forthcoming to fix it?

    Will that patch correct the issue so that non-Arc logins can be used again?

    What is PWE staff's explicit position on non-Arc use, with respect to its historical use and the well-documented fact that it is not a client modification in the slightest?

    Does the amount of people who have already quit over this (and the base issue) give PWE upper management even the slightest pause for thought?

    How does the staff intend to repair a platform that was never designed to work with the various quirks of our client, and which instead appears to exist only for marketing purposes and superficial "security features" (which, with the possible exception of two-factor authentication if we're using that, do next to nothing as long as some moron is willing to give their password away to some sketchy third-party site)?

    With surtr gone, is the new boss keeping Kalyst on a shorter leash? If so, is s/he aware that Kalyst's previously forthcoming nature and frequent posts were one of the biggest boons this community's had in years, and the loss of same is impacting this community (and the cashers who make up a portion of it) in ways it may well not recover from?

    Why not just answer these things so we can all stop jumping to the worst possible conclusions?

    Why was Arc really forced on us?
    Mains: Miugre / LigerKing
    Etherblade server
  • csquared5
    csquared5 Posts: 153 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    I heard a story from somebody who swears that a player on Dawnglory was logging over 150 clients, somehow messing with server code, and that this was responsible for the frequent lag/crashes Dawnglory experienced. I can't personally verify any of this, but he did sound quite certain, for what it is worth.

    Now it could be just a false rumor. But for a moment, lets assume that there is some truth to it.

    What would YOU do in PWI position? IF somebody was massively, massively abusing multi-clienting to the point where it is affecting the whole server ecosystem, how would you respond to deal with this problem? Curious to hear what our armchair experts have to say about this.

    I always suspected that PWI didn't really want to turn off multi-clienting---any hare-brained idiot knows it would be unpopular and bad for revenue---but that they somehow had their hand forced. If this story is true, it would explain why PWI felt like they had no choice.
    »Go back to sleep...« PWI Youtube Channel




  • jadasia
    jadasia Posts: 520 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    greenfire312 wrote: »
    jadasia wrote: »
    You misunderstood. It means that the devs will work to resolve the underlying issue once they are back from the holiday. It does not mean they will restore multi clienting tonight.

    Until then do what everyone else does and kill Arc once you log in your 1st client and start a second client. No big freaking deal
    All of this is correct except the (admittedly subjective) part about it not being a big deal just because we can technically still multi-client. We still deserve answers.

    What did the "culprit" actually do? Is his exploit known, and if so, is a patch forthcoming to fix it?

    Will that patch correct the issue so that non-Arc logins can be used again?

    *** Why should PWI or any company expose how someone exploited their software to the rest of the user base? And what business is it of yours?

    Oh, and no. They most likely will not be introducing a patch to allow non-Arc logins as that is contradictory to the reasons why the company created Arc in the first place.

    What is PWE staff's explicit position on non-Arc use, with respect to its historical use and the well-documented fact that it is not a client modification in the slightest?

    *** Historical use is irrelevant considering how dynamic the game is. PWI implemented ARC as a launch platform for all their game titles and have every right to have all players use it to launch their games. Not only is that explicitly stated in the TOS but they own the software and have every right to modify it in any way they see fit. Players have a right to find another game to play if they refuse to accept PWI's changes.

    Does the amount of people who have already quit over this (and the base issue) give PWE upper management even the slightest pause for thought?

    *** Unless you are a business partner or a shareholder this is none of your concern.

    How does the staff intend to repair a platform that was never designed to work with the various quirks of our client, and which instead appears to exist only for marketing purposes and superficial "security features" (which, with the possible exception of two-factor authentication if we're using that, do next to nothing as long as some moron is willing to give their password away to some sketchy third-party site)?

    *** PWI staff doesn't. The devs in China do. Ask them. Not me.

    With surtr gone, is the new boss keeping Kalyst on a shorter leash? If so, is s/he aware that Kalyst's previously forthcoming nature and frequent posts were one of the biggest boons this community's had in years, and the loss of same is impacting this community (and the cashers who make up a portion of it) in ways it may well not recover from?

    *** Ask her.

    Why not just answer these things so we can all stop jumping to the worst possible conclusions?

    *** Only people jumping to wild conclusions are people like you

    Why was Arc really forced on us?

    Arc was forced on us because PWI wanted a singular platform to consolidate and launch all of their titles from. Not only that it is a platform to promote their other game titles it serves other functions like communicating with other players, account security, etc.

    Again read the ToS. They had every right to do so.
  • shaibya#9251
    shaibya#9251 Posts: 75 Arc User
    csquared5 wrote: »
    laurastaker wrote: »
    No, it says very clearly that it will be fully restored once the Devs are back from the Spring Festival. So that means it should be back tonight, no later. Yes, that's all fine and dandy but it's also very annoying and not only that but a lot of people are locked out of their accounts because of that. So yea, is it getting sorted tonight or was it a lie?

    I don't want to accuse you of being an idiot but...

    are you an idiot?!

    Dude. Programming takes TIME. They will start working to resolve issue, but I mean it is completely unrealistic to expect that there is an instant silver bullet magic fix for this. Thank some fellow player who abused multi-clienting so much that PWI had to act to stop it, PWI obviously knew this would be unpopular and I can only imagine they did it because their hand was forced. I'm sure that as soon as our CM here has more concrete information to share with us, she will be happy to do so. She doesn't like leaving us hanging, I think we can say by now that she does her best to keep us informed.

    And as others have said... you can STILL MULTI-CLIENT. Just takes lil more time to open each client now. So stay chill alright? Like me! So chill. (lol)

    P.S TY PWI for the new fashions they are AWESOME.

    Obviously you didn't read the announcment on the 14th, which clearly states it would be fully restored when they were back from the festival. It says nothing about it needing to be worked on or anything of the sort. I'm sorry that you're getting all salty over my post and my question, didn't mean to offend you kiddoh.

    Either way, as stated before, it's not just about the multi-clienting, it's about the people who can't access their accounts because of being screwed over by this. I, for one, don't have that problem and can access my accounts no problem. However, for the people that I know who are affected by this, I most definately will ask if they are actually going to sort it out (like they clearly said in that post) or are they going to keep dragging their feet and being dishonest with the remaining player base.
  • clyknight
    clyknight Posts: 128 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    laurastaker wrote: »
    Well a lot of people have been holding out to see if they actually keep to their word and fix it. So I want to know if they are going to fix it since the New Year is over, if not, that whole announcment was nothing but lies. So do tell us, are they going to put it back to the way it was or was it a lie?

    Plain and simple "LIES"

    PWI ignoring basically the whole player base reaction to dimwit adventure land, base changes and multiclient
  • jadasia
    jadasia Posts: 520 Arc User
    laurastaker wrote: »
    csquared5 wrote: »
    laurastaker wrote: »
    No, it says very clearly that it will be fully restored once the Devs are back from the Spring Festival. So that means it should be back tonight, no later. Yes, that's all fine and dandy but it's also very annoying and not only that but a lot of people are locked out of their accounts because of that. So yea, is it getting sorted tonight or was it a lie?

    I don't want to accuse you of being an idiot but...

    are you an idiot?!

    Dude. Programming takes TIME. They will start working to resolve issue, but I mean it is completely unrealistic to expect that there is an instant silver bullet magic fix for this. Thank some fellow player who abused multi-clienting so much that PWI had to act to stop it, PWI obviously knew this would be unpopular and I can only imagine they did it because their hand was forced. I'm sure that as soon as our CM here has more concrete information to share with us, she will be happy to do so. She doesn't like leaving us hanging, I think we can say by now that she does her best to keep us informed.

    And as others have said... you can STILL MULTI-CLIENT. Just takes lil more time to open each client now. So stay chill alright? Like me! So chill. (lol)

    P.S TY PWI for the new fashions they are AWESOME.

    Obviously you didn't read the announcment on the 14th, which clearly states it would be fully restored when they were back from the festival. It says nothing about it needing to be worked on or anything of the sort. I'm sorry that you're getting all salty over my post and my question, didn't mean to offend you kiddoh.

    Either way, as stated before, it's not just about the multi-clienting, it's about the people who can't access their accounts because of being screwed over by this. I, for one, don't have that problem and can access my accounts no problem. However, for the people that I know who are affected by this, I most definately will ask if they are actually going to sort it out (like they clearly said in that post) or are they going to keep dragging their feet and being dishonest with the remaining player base.

    You are very naive and I think you will be disappointed in a few hours.
  • hawkins08
    hawkins08 Posts: 31 Arc User
    laurastaker wrote: »
    csquared5 wrote: »
    laurastaker wrote: »
    No, it says very clearly that it will be fully restored once the Devs are back from the Spring Festival. So that means it should be back tonight, no later. Yes, that's all fine and dandy but it's also very annoying and not only that but a lot of people are locked out of their accounts because of that. So yea, is it getting sorted tonight or was it a lie?

    I don't want to accuse you of being an idiot but...

    are you an idiot?!

    Dude. Programming takes TIME. They will start working to resolve issue, but I mean it is completely unrealistic to expect that there is an instant silver bullet magic fix for this. Thank some fellow player who abused multi-clienting so much that PWI had to act to stop it, PWI obviously knew this would be unpopular and I can only imagine they did it because their hand was forced. I'm sure that as soon as our CM here has more concrete information to share with us, she will be happy to do so. She doesn't like leaving us hanging, I think we can say by now that she does her best to keep us informed.

    And as others have said... you can STILL MULTI-CLIENT. Just takes lil more time to open each client now. So stay chill alright? Like me! So chill. (lol)

    P.S TY PWI for the new fashions they are AWESOME.

    Obviously you didn't read the announcment on the 14th, which clearly states it would be fully restored when they were back from the festival. It says nothing about it needing to be worked on or anything of the sort. I'm sorry that you're getting all salty over my post and my question, didn't mean to offend you kiddoh.

    Either way, as stated before, it's not just about the multi-clienting, it's about the people who can't access their accounts because of being screwed over by this. I, for one, don't have that problem and can access my accounts no problem. However, for the people that I know who are affected by this, I most definately will ask if they are actually going to sort it out (like they clearly said in that post) or are they going to keep dragging their feet and being dishonest with the remaining player base.


    and how stupid this seems ?

    "hey we going to **** up ur multi client for 2 weeks in no reason and then we restore it back to wht it was"

    does anything blings to u there ? they wont restore it

    they did not change this just for fun because some silly new year celebration 2 weeks only only
  • hawkins08
    hawkins08 Posts: 31 Arc User
    laurastaker wrote: »
    csquared5 wrote: »
    laurastaker wrote: »
    No, it says very clearly that it will be fully restored once the Devs are back from the Spring Festival. So that means it should be back tonight, no later. Yes, that's all fine and dandy but it's also very annoying and not only that but a lot of people are locked out of their accounts because of that. So yea, is it getting sorted tonight or was it a lie?

    I don't want to accuse you of being an idiot but...

    are you an idiot?!

    Dude. Programming takes TIME. They will start working to resolve issue, but I mean it is completely unrealistic to expect that there is an instant silver bullet magic fix for this. Thank some fellow player who abused multi-clienting so much that PWI had to act to stop it, PWI obviously knew this would be unpopular and I can only imagine they did it because their hand was forced. I'm sure that as soon as our CM here has more concrete information to share with us, she will be happy to do so. She doesn't like leaving us hanging, I think we can say by now that she does her best to keep us informed.

    And as others have said... you can STILL MULTI-CLIENT. Just takes lil more time to open each client now. So stay chill alright? Like me! So chill. (lol)

    P.S TY PWI for the new fashions they are AWESOME.

    Obviously you didn't read the announcment on the 14th, which clearly states it would be fully restored when they were back from the festival. It says nothing about it needing to be worked on or anything of the sort. I'm sorry that you're getting all salty over my post and my question, didn't mean to offend you kiddoh.

    Either way, as stated before, it's not just about the multi-clienting, it's about the people who can't access their accounts because of being screwed over by this. I, for one, don't have that problem and can access my accounts no problem. However, for the people that I know who are affected by this, I most definately will ask if they are actually going to sort it out (like they clearly said in that post) or are they going to keep dragging their feet and being dishonest with the remaining player base.


    and how stupid are you ? some fun changes for 2 weeks to **** off all players and then restore it?

    "hey we **** up ur multi clients for 2 weeks becaues some dumb new year celebration and we undo it when back" ??

    does anything blings to you there ? they wont restore it

    these changes are not done just for fun 2 weeks on new year celebration only
  • yoabu#2667
    yoabu#2667 Posts: 50 Arc User
    Since we're being nitpicky here.
    your ability to multi-client will be fully restored once the developers return from Chinese New Year

    The announcement made on the 14th neither states explicitly nor implies that those who were locked out of their accounts due to the requirement of logging in through Arc will have that access returned, or a possibility of getting around Arc granted.

    The only promise made in that announcement is that we will be able to multiclient once the Devs return to work after the holidays. I don't know about you, but I can multiclient just fine.
  • mistressani
    mistressani Posts: 101 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    laurastaker wrote: »
    No, it says very clearly that it will be fully restored once the Devs are back from the Spring Festival. So that means it should be back tonight, no later. Yes, that's all fine and dandy but it's also very annoying and not only that but a lot of people are locked out of their accounts because of that. So yea, is it getting sorted tonight or was it a lie?

    I can fully understand both your rational and misunderstanding of the official information issued to you , you see you were expecting a FIX update after the holidays but what was truly meant is that THEY NOW HAVE TO FIND A FIX to the current problem since they've returned to office. However long that takes or if one would be implimented remains to be to seen but for players who are currently inconvenienced they fustration grows as they wait.

    My advice to you is if the present situation is proving to be too stressing for you take a break or walk away, you're entitled to that right as a user of any service.
    Post edited by mistressani on
  • sylenthunder
    sylenthunder Posts: 3,061 Community Moderator
    csquared5 wrote: »
    I heard a story from somebody who swears that a player on Dawnglory was logging over 150 clients, somehow messing with server code, and that this was responsible for the frequent lag/crashes Dawnglory experienced. I can't personally verify any of this, but he did sound quite certain, for what it is worth....
    This is actually really easy to do. There is software that will allow you to log in and set up catshops without a client. It uses hardly any system resources too, so setting up a hundred or so is pretty easy. I am aware of a few people who have been banned for this over the past 5 years.

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  • xcybershot
    xcybershot Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    :D best thing is how ppl get banned atm
    a friend got ban for change info under arc
    this kind of system i will never understand
  • greenfire312
    greenfire312 Posts: 269 Arc User
    jadasia wrote: »
    *** Why should PWI or any company expose how someone exploited their software to the rest of the user base? And what business is it of yours?

    Oh, and no. They most likely will not be introducing a patch to allow non-Arc logins as that is contradictory to the reasons why the company created Arc in the first place.

    *** Historical use is irrelevant considering how dynamic the game is. PWI implemented ARC as a launch platform for all their game titles and have every right to have all players use it to launch their games. Not only is that explicitly stated in the TOS but they own the software and have every right to modify it in any way they see fit. Players have a right to find another game to play if they refuse to accept PWI's changes.
    First of all, you seem to be operating on the assumption that I was addressing all those questions directly to you since you were the person I quoted. Rather, they were meant to be open questions directed at PWE staff (natch, Kalyst), but it was late and I admittedly could've worded that better (only the first line or two was directly towards you).

    You're entitled to the opinion that its historical use is irrelevant, but virtually no one who used it that way would agree with you. A number of players have already exercised that right to quit. If PWE has any interest in stemming that bleeding, they'll at least restore the level of communication they had before the incident (deeply flawed though it was). Hiding behind the TOS is not going to do them any good here. At a bare minimum, they looked the other way on this for years, and for good reason. They have the right to change things, but we still deserve an explanation or more people will exercise that right to quit.
    jadasia wrote: »
    *** Unless you are a business partner or a shareholder this is none of your concern.
    It's extremely condescending to suggest that we all need to go buy a share to even be concerned about this. I know people have been peddling the "vote with your wallets" directive for years now and nothing's come of it, but that's because they were doing so in response to issues much more trivial than this. PWE hasn't screwed the pooch this badly since R9 was released, especially not twice in a row. I think we're entitled to have concerns and express those concerns, thank you. You're equally entitled to ignore us, if you're so inclined.
    jadasia wrote: »
    *** PWI staff doesn't. The devs in China do.
    CN develops the client, yes, but Arc? Unless you happen to have a staff (or maybe mod) post handy explicitly saying that they developed Arc for PWE, I wouldn't make that assumption. Since Arc is just a badly-designed marketing wrapper which seems to be incapable of passing relevant commands (i.e. force log) to the client, I find it just as plausible that PWE outsourced its development to a third party.

    Either way, you know as well as I do that we're incapable of asking the devs anything directly. We can only go through Kalyst, which was my intention here. Be it PWE, CN, or a third party who's ultimately responsible, our questions must unfortunately be posed to the same person.
    Mains: Miugre / LigerKing
    Etherblade server
  • phantomforce#4598
    phantomforce#4598 Posts: 397 Community Moderator
    greenfire312 wrote: »
    CN develops the client, yes, but Arc? Unless you happen to have a staff (or maybe mod) post handy explicitly saying that they developed Arc for PWE, I wouldn't make that assumption. Since Arc is just a badly-designed marketing wrapper which seems to be incapable of passing relevant commands (i.e. force log) to the client, I find it just as plausible that PWE outsourced its development to a third party.

    Either way, you know as well as I do that we're incapable of asking the devs anything directly. We can only go through Kalyst, which was my intention here. Be it PWE, CN, or a third party who's ultimately responsible, our questions must unfortunately be posed to the same person.

    I'm new to the Arc thing, but if I recall correctly, that was originally all PWE. I seem to recall seeing something indicating they use it in China now also, but not sure on where current development is. SylenThunder could probably chime in on this with more detail.​​
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  • tabaloul
    tabaloul Posts: 159 Arc User
    meanwhile on Da half of server is banned, someone had been banned for account selling and the evidence was he used an identity stone.
    pwe ceo is getting emails as we speak.​​
  • jadasia
    jadasia Posts: 520 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    greenfire312 wrote: »

    First of all, you seem to be operating on the assumption that I was addressing all those questions directly to you since you were the person I quoted. Rather, they were meant to be open questions directed at PWE staff (natch, Kalyst), but it was late and I admittedly could've worded that better (only the first line or two was directly towards you).

    You're entitled to the opinion that its historical use is irrelevant, but virtually no one who used it that way would agree with you. A number of players have already exercised that right to quit. If PWE has any interest in stemming that bleeding, they'll at least restore the level of communication they had before the incident (deeply flawed though it was). Hiding behind the TOS is not going to do them any good here. At a bare minimum, they looked the other way on this for years, and for good reason. They have the right to change things, but we still deserve an explanation or more people will exercise that right to quit.

    *** Opinion. LOL! It's been this way ever since I started in 2009. PWI does something people like you don't like and they claim EVERYBODY is going to quit and the game is going to die.

    Whoops. it's 2018 and PWI is still here. Stop being so melodramatic. It's making you look crazy.

    It's extremely condescending to suggest that we all need to go buy a share to even be concerned about this. I know people have been peddling the "vote with your wallets" directive for years now and nothing's come of it, but that's because they were doing so in response to issues much more trivial than this. PWE hasn't screwed the pooch this badly since R9 was released, especially not twice in a row. I think we're entitled to have concerns and express those concerns, thank you. You're equally entitled to ignore us, if you're so inclined.

    *** And again a few people don't like Arc does not mean EVERYONE has an issue with it. And no you are not entitled to any insider information related to the internal business decisions PWI/PWE makes.

    Unhappy people quit but there are new people who join the game. I see them in WC every day. It seems the player base is just as dynamic as the game is.

    Ignoring that and thinking YOU know what is best for the game and the rest of us is condescending as hell.

    CN develops the client, yes, but Arc? Unless you happen to have a staff (or maybe mod) post handy explicitly saying that they developed Arc for PWE, I wouldn't make that assumption. Since Arc is just a badly-designed marketing wrapper which seems to be incapable of passing relevant commands (i.e. force log) to the client, I find it just as plausible that PWE outsourced its development to a third party.

    *** If I am not mistaken PW-CN is played ONLY in China or territories of China and they operate under a different set of rules there. Why make apples and oranges arguments here?

    Besides what difference does it make when PWE reserved all rights to how you or any other person accesses and uses their copyrighted products?

    YOU AGREED TO THE ToS WHEN YOU CREATED YOUR ACCOUNT. LOL!

    Either way, you know as well as I do that we're incapable of asking the devs anything directly. We can only go through Kalyst, which was my intention here. Be it PWE, CN, or a third party who's ultimately responsible, our questions must unfortunately be posed to the same person.

    *** Well, if you learn to write Chinese then you can log into the company's website in China and ask them.
  • greenfire312
    greenfire312 Posts: 269 Arc User
    jadasia wrote: »
    *** Opinion. LOL! It's been this way ever since I started in 2009. PWI does something people like you don't like and they claim EVERYBODY is going to quit and the game is going to die.

    Whoops. it's 2018 and PWI is still here. Stop being so melodramatic. It's making you look crazy.
    I said people are going to quit, and that a number of them already have. At no point did I say everyone is going to quit. I'll thank you to actually read what I said before lumping me in with every random complainer since 2009.
    jadasia wrote: »
    *** And again a few people don't like Arc does not mean EVERYONE has an issue with it. And no you are not entitled to any insider information related to the internal business decisions PWI/PWE makes.

    Unhappy people quit but there are new people who join the game. I see them in WC every day. It seems the player base is just as dynamic as the game is.

    Ignoring that and thinking YOU know what is best for the game and the rest of us is condescending as hell.
    That's some pro-level conclusion jumping there, seriously, gg.

    Let's spell this out a little more clearly. People have quit over this. Various posts around the forum strongly suggest that additional people will quit over this if a suitable response is not provided. Various segments of the game population are completely unable to play right now even if they want to. This has nothing to do with "insider information." This has to do with the staff providing a response that actually indicates they intend to respond to the community concerns in a satisfactory manner. So far this has not been forthcoming.

    PWI is going to be 10 years old this year. Most MMOs don't last that long. PWI has had a surprising amount of longevity despite how its owners mishandle it, but everything has its limit. And you can't tell me with a straight face that we have the same player base that we used to (even before these changes).
    jadasia wrote: »
    *** If I am not mistaken PW-CN is played ONLY in China or territories of China and they operate under a different set of rules there. Why make apples and oranges arguments here?

    Besides what difference does it make when PWE reserved all rights to how you or any other person accesses and uses their copyrighted products?

    YOU AGREED TO THE ToS WHEN YOU CREATED YOUR ACCOUNT. LOL!

    *** Well, if you learn to write Chinese then you can log into the company's website in China and ask them.
    Again, if they hide behind the ToS, it'll be at their own risk as more will leave. But more importantly, can you point me to any passage in the ToS which explicitly says that connecting to the PWI client without Arc is not allowed? And no, "you can't mod the client" doesn't apply here because, again, it is not a client mod.

    By the way, Mr./Ms. 2009 player, I'm pretty sure both of us created our accounts before there was any such thing as Arc to agree to the supposedly-mandated use of.

    Why differentiate them? Because you're telling me to address to the devs an issue that doesn't even apply to them, which makes you uninformed on the subject. Then you're posting the obviously unrealistic expectation of someone learning a new language just to voice a single concern, which makes you a troll.
    Mains: Miugre / LigerKing
    Etherblade server
  • jadasia
    jadasia Posts: 520 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    greenfire312 wrote: »
    jadasia wrote: »
    *** Opinion. LOL! It's been this way ever since I started in 2009. PWI does something people like you don't like and they claim EVERYBODY is going to quit and the game is going to die.

    Whoops. it's 2018 and PWI is still here. Stop being so melodramatic. It's making you look crazy.
    I said people are going to quit, and that a number of them already have. At no point did I say everyone is going to quit. I'll thank you to actually read what I said before lumping me in with every random complainer since 2009.
    jadasia wrote: »
    *** And again a few people don't like Arc does not mean EVERYONE has an issue with it. And no you are not entitled to any insider information related to the internal business decisions PWI/PWE makes.

    Unhappy people quit but there are new people who join the game. I see them in WC every day. It seems the player base is just as dynamic as the game is.

    Ignoring that and thinking YOU know what is best for the game and the rest of us is condescending as hell.
    That's some pro-level conclusion jumping there, seriously, gg.

    Let's spell this out a little more clearly. People have quit over this. Various posts around the forum strongly suggest that additional people will quit over this if a suitable response is not provided. Various segments of the game population are completely unable to play right now even if they want to. This has nothing to do with "insider information." This has to do with the staff providing a response that actually indicates they intend to respond to the community concerns in a satisfactory manner. So far this has not been forthcoming.

    PWI is going to be 10 years old this year. Most MMOs don't last that long. PWI has had a surprising amount of longevity despite how its owners mishandle it, but everything has its limit. And you can't tell me with a straight face that we have the same player base that we used to (even before these changes).
    jadasia wrote: »
    *** If I am not mistaken PW-CN is played ONLY in China or territories of China and they operate under a different set of rules there. Why make apples and oranges arguments here?

    Besides what difference does it make when PWE reserved all rights to how you or any other person accesses and uses their copyrighted products?

    YOU AGREED TO THE ToS WHEN YOU CREATED YOUR ACCOUNT. LOL!

    *** Well, if you learn to write Chinese then you can log into the company's website in China and ask them.
    Again, if they hide behind the ToS, it'll be at their own risk as more will leave. But more importantly, can you point me to any passage in the ToS which explicitly says that connecting to the PWI client without Arc is not allowed? And no, "you can't mod the client" doesn't apply here because, again, it is not a client mod.

    By the way, Mr./Ms. 2009 player, I'm pretty sure both of us created our accounts before there was any such thing as Arc to agree to the supposedly-mandated use of.

    Why differentiate them? Because you're telling me to address to the devs an issue that doesn't even apply to them, which makes you uninformed on the subject. Then you're posting the obviously unrealistic expectation of someone learning a new language just to voice a single concern, which makes you a troll.

    A bit defensive, are you?

    And again, if people quit over this then that's their decision. Again new people are coming into the game every day. I see it in world chat so what else is new? Really?

    "Various segments of the game population are completely unable to play right now even if they want to.."

    Why? Unable to play the way they used to and they are not willing to adapt to the in-game changes? If so that's their problem. This game as well as any other MMO out there is going to be updated in one way or another. It's a dynamic virtual ecosystem and if people don't like the changes then that's their own problem. They can quit. Many others don't have a problem with it and just go about their business in the game and the new people don't know any different. Again, what else is new?

    Unable to play because they can't log into their account because they can't validate the email? They need to work with customer support to resolve that issue. It was their responsibility to keep their account info, including emails, updated.


    "By the way, Mr./Ms. 2009 player, I'm pretty sure both of us created our accounts before there was any such thing as Arc to agree to the supposedly-mandated use of."

    * Changes to Terms:

    2.1 We may amend and/or modify these Terms, the Rules of Conduct, and any EULA at any time in our sole discretion. *

    It appears it does not matter as we agreed to allow PWI/PWE to modify the ToS to whatever they want, including compulsory use of ARC to access the game.
  • greenfire312
    greenfire312 Posts: 269 Arc User
    jadasia wrote: »
    A bit defensive, are you?

    And again, if people quit over this then that's their decision. Again new people are coming into the game every day. I see it in world chat so what else is new? Really?
    Again - are you going to tell me with a straight face that we have the player base that we used to? Are you telling me that the supposed new people coming in are doing so at a faster rate than people are leaving?
    jadasia wrote: »
    Why? Unable to play the way they used to and they are not willing to adapt to the in-game changes? If so that's their problem. This game as well as any other MMO out there is going to be updated in one way or another. It's a dynamic virtual ecosystem and if people don't like the changes then that's their own problem. They can quit. Many others don't have a problem with it and just go about their business in the game and the new people don't know any different. Again, what else is new?

    Unable to play because they can't log into their account because they can't validate the email? They need to work with customer support to resolve that issue. It was their responsibility to keep their account info, including emails, updated.
    People are working with CS. And CS is swamped, from what I hear. You ever worked in a support center? They're not exactly staffed for a deluge of calls/tickets all at the same time, not unless you want to hire several extra people to essentially sit on their hands for the other 90% of the time.
    jadasia wrote: »
    * Changes to Terms:

    2.1 We may amend and/or modify these Terms, the Rules of Conduct, and any EULA at any time in our sole discretion. *

    It appears it does not matter as we agreed to allow PWI/PWE to modify the ToS to whatever they want, including compulsory use of ARC to access the game.
    This is irrelevant to the assertion in your previous post, which was (essentially) that by agreeing to the ToS we agreed to use Arc. And I have yet to see any specific language saying that. Even if they modified it now to include such language (which I have no doubt they'll probably do), they still owe us an explanation for why... not out of any business sense, mind you, which seems to be the only metric you care about... but out of respect for the community which supports them.

    And yes, I am going to continue to appeal to that sense of respect. Why? Because it's more productive than blatant cynicism.
    Mains: Miugre / LigerKing
    Etherblade server
  • tabaloul
    tabaloul Posts: 159 Arc User
    why is people still losing time at jadasia, he interprets ToS like common law and consumer rights dont exist​​

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