PWI Please stop selling so many keys

aetje wrote: »

csquared5 wrote: »

It is really becoming irritating how frequently and how cheap keys are appearing in boutique.

Gold prices spike, and why wouldn't they? Keys basically print out money, causing massive inflation that homestead stopped helping combat long time ago. With gold prices so high, getting anything else from boutique is difficult unless you jack up the prices. Therefore sales that coincide with key sales tend to be completely wasted.

PWI moved from pay2win towards pay2compete a long time ago. PWE will stop keysales when their whales stop buying them - IE never since, as you rightly say, it's just a moneyprinting machine with a much better yield then selling gold in the AH for 4 mil.

F2P players are either farming arc these days (and swallowing bans for it - had several people I know poof from the game as a result) or leaving for other games. I cannot say I blame them.

As for not having endgame: Let's sum up what non-endgame gear will get you locked out of:
- No coliseum. Or just 15 rounds of getting oneshot.
- No serious TW or XTW.
- No massive fights in XNW. Normal NW seems to be okay for midgeared people.
- No DUP, JDH. So also no chance at G17 weapons. Some exceptions apply... stormbringer, BM, Sage shatter seeker, Veno and Mystic can get away with lower gear.

There is an easy fix for it, but one I know PWE will never apply to this game. Push the gold cap on the AH to 6 million, then sell an infinity of gold AT 6 million, so people can farm at their hearts content and gold has a decent, albeit high capped price. This would cause a brief surge in coin-to-gold, but effectively removes a crapton of coin from the game in a very rapid fashion, as players would convert it into gold and buy stuff like orbs and R9 gear. However, then PWE would need to start monitoring illegal coin-generation means in this game, such as those jolly bots.

Do you understand that PWI is paying employees from gold that people are buying right ?

I remember the days when I could buy gold from AH consistently and merch items, it's how I managed to create a large capital but now thats gone and rip to anyone who wants to merch w/Gold/Spend Promos ):

saxroll wrote: »

dregenfox wrote: »

Giving away free gold for coins isn't a viable solution - I wish people would stop suggesting that. You are not taking into consideration that PWI is a buisness that needs to stay financially viable.

You can't just make EVERYTHING in the cash shop freely farmable when PWI depends on that income.

The best solution would be to implement an in-game way to partially farm advanced gears and make sure it's not exploitable by bots. Warsong/Nirvana was a good idea but they are outdated now and PWI has been too lazy to do anything about it so far.

PWI needs to push hard to uncap UP/DUP and DH.

I am not gonna argue further than to point out its very viable to not lock everything behind rl money. Look at LoL for example. You cant buy any advantage with real money, you can speed up your progress by unlocking champions and then you got the cosmetic side, which is the main money maker for LoL from what I understand.

PWE has to ban hammer bots hard before beneficial coin sinks are reasonable suggestion but them dont have to be gold. Orbs, shards, whatever actually in demand for reasonable prices would work just as well to drain coin out of economy and put some value back on coin to help non charging population of the game.

As for your suggestion to revamping old content, I suggested such thing and got response from Kalyst saying that devs are basically incapable of touching old instances w/o breaking something and thus its not realistic to suggest such things.

It doesn't matter if it's gold. If they put DoD/DoT shards as buyable they would immediately be botted and exploited. It has to be content that is not easily bottable.

Also the old instances like UP/DH/JFSP have been modified multiple times in past patches, sometimes in significant ways. JFSP's loot system was actually completely overhauled. The main issue is that the devs are simply not interested in spending the effort required to modify the number of keys given out.

How would you propose PWI change to a system like LoL without completely **** over current players who have spent years investing in the game? PWI already has a deep fashion system and its obviously not enough to meet the company's income expectations.

saxroll wrote: »

dregenfox wrote: »

It doesn't matter if it's gold. If they put DoD/DoT shards as buyable they would immediately be botted and exploited. It has to be content that is not easily bottable.

Also the old instances like UP/DH/JFSP have been modified multiple times in past patches, sometimes in significant ways. JFSP's loot system was actually completely overhauled. The main issue is that the devs are simply not interested in spending the effort required to modify the number of keys given out.

How would you propose PWI change to a system like LoL without completely **** over current players who have spent years investing in the game? PWI already has a deep fashion system and its obviously not enough to meet the company's income expectations.

You mentioned Nirvana/WS, which are old instances. Even FSP is is "new" instance despite being several yeas into the game. I did ask specifically bout Rebirth and Nirvana to which I got the reply of devs being unable to touch them. Sure, it could be complete bs as a response but its what I got.

And how are you gonna bot coin if they remove JoJ? Thats specific content for our version(I was told) and removing it would make sense considering the botting issue we got with it. Rest of the coin influx would be pack related items, mainly foils, and TW rewards for owning lands. We get rid of the botting by banhammering botters hard or just getting rid of JoJ, either works for me.

I suggested putting some of the items available for coins, not all of them. By creating demand for coins, you also increase demand for foils, which, I would imagine, only boosts their pack sales. Unlocking some things from behind they pay wall will not kill this game, done right it will likely even boost companys profits.

Any item created for trade-in by coins would have to be a new item created by PWI. Putting in old, already released stuff like DoD would simply be the same as replacing foil drops with higher DoD drops, because that's pretty much what the foil coins would be going into. PWI would never do that in a million years because they need to protect their "longevity".

The playerbase as a whole simply needs to push harder for the removal of foil drops from keys, because literally half the QQ threads on this forum are a result of that, even if it's not immediately apparent.

Who is god, where is god, what is god... same odd's of proving any of these points as answering the questions I used as a example,,, But it gives some peep's there vent:)

SIMPLE EQUATION TO PEOPLE WHO CAN'T UNDERSTAND STUFF.
NO MATTER HOW MANY KEYS THAT GO ON SALE.
I SEE A JUMP INCREASE WITH THE VOLUME OF STUFF. PACK ITEMS

KEYS ON SALE = SURPLUS OF PACK ITEMS ON THE MARKET + COIN SURGE VIA GOLD FOILS (THIS 2 THINGS ARE CREATED TO CANCEL OUT EACH OTHER.. FOILS ARE USED BY THE DEVS TO DECREASE THE SURPLUS PACK ITEMS. ) but in the end game...

if you perform calculations...

PROFIT VS LOSS
Cash SHOP GODS < NORMAL PLAYERS WHO EARNS COINS
LOSS WINS

csgods losses quite a bit of REAL LIFE MONEY. and all they gain is VIRTUAL GOODS that can be gone any minute.
on the other hand .. normal players who can't afford this stuff. eventually will be able to afford this stuff if they wait a bit of time. I SEE GST BE SOLD LIKE 5M RANDOMLY COZ NOBODY BUYS HIS OVERPRICED STUFF. SAME IS TRUE FOR EVERYTHING. IF PEOPLE DONT BUY STUFF EVENTUALLY PRICES WILL DIE DOWN. .. RIGHT NOW .. the money circulating on the market relies heavily on csgods foils which they use to buy stuff and things this too will be gone as well. ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS WAIT...
WELL 90% OF PWI COMMUNITY DON'T KNOW THIS THING. THEY R9 THEMSELVES TO GET RID OF THE WAIT.
GOLD FOILS - i doubt the devs will remove that. thats the only thing preventing a huge surplus of gems and pack items.

in a point of view by a player who can't afford any of this stuff

We dont really need to be concerned coz we are not the one spending real life money on a dying game.
eventually these PRICES WILL GO DOWN FOR US TO BE ABLE TO REACH IT.
IF YOU STILL QQ ABOUT KEYS GOIN ON SALE.. U PROLLY ARE A GAMBLER WHO WANTS TO EARN PROFIT AS WELL.
let them buy keys.. iwill just wait and reap the benefits later on... if pwi is still alive by then..

well if you still dont understand stuff after all that explanation.
GO continue QQ about the keys.
problem is people wanna continue competing and wanna buy keys and gamble ON HARD EARNED COINS MADE FROM SEVERAL FWS.. u dont gamble hard earned money...
GAMBLING IS ADDICTION .. EVERYBODY SHOULD STAY WAY FROM IT.

sleeper1#0704 wrote: »

SIMPLE EQUATION TO PEOPLE WHO CAN'T UNDERSTAND STUFF.
NO MATTER HOW MANY KEYS THAT GO ON SALE.
I SEE A JUMP INCREASE WITH THE VOLUME OF STUFF. PACK ITEMS

KEYS ON SALE = SURPLUS OF PACK ITEMS ON THE MARKET + COIN SURGE VIA GOLD FOILS (THIS 2 THINGS ARE CREATED TO CANCEL OUT EACH OTHER.. FOILS ARE USED BY THE DEVS TO DECREASE THE SURPLUS PACK ITEMS. ) but in the end game...

if you perform calculations...

PROFIT VS LOSS
Cash SHOP GODS < NORMAL PLAYERS WHO EARNS COINS
LOSS WINS

csgods losses quite a bit of REAL LIFE MONEY. and all they gain is VIRTUAL GOODS that can be gone any minute.
on the other hand .. normal players who can't afford this stuff. eventually will be able to afford this stuff if they wait a bit of time. I SEE GST BE SOLD LIKE 5M RANDOMLY COZ NOBODY BUYS HIS OVERPRICED STUFF. SAME IS TRUE FOR EVERYTHING. IF PEOPLE DONT BUY STUFF EVENTUALLY PRICES WILL DIE DOWN. .. RIGHT NOW .. the money circulating on the market relies heavily on csgods foils which they use to buy stuff and things this too will be gone as well. ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS WAIT...
WELL 90% OF PWI COMMUNITY DON'T KNOW THIS THING. THEY R9 THEMSELVES TO GET RID OF THE WAIT.
GOLD FOILS - i doubt the devs will remove that. thats the only thing preventing a huge surplus of gems and pack items.

in a point of view by a player who can't afford any of this stuff

We dont really need to be concerned coz we are not the one spending real life money on a dying game.
eventually these PRICES WILL GO DOWN FOR US TO BE ABLE TO REACH IT.
IF YOU STILL QQ ABOUT KEYS GOIN ON SALE.. U PROLLY ARE A GAMBLER WHO WANTS TO EARN PROFIT AS WELL.
let them buy keys.. iwill just wait and reap the benefits later on... if pwi is still alive by then..

well if you still dont understand stuff after all that explanation.
GO continue QQ about the keys.
problem is people wanna continue competing and wanna buy keys and gamble ON HARD EARNED COINS MADE FROM SEVERAL FWS.. u dont gamble hard earned money...
GAMBLING IS ADDICTION .. EVERYBODY SHOULD STAY WAY FROM IT.

and thats why we cant have good discussions in here ... jsut becasue u seem to blurb the loudest .. does in no way mean r even remotely close to beeing right ....

more keys means more foils means more coins in the server ....... it is really that simple .... and waiting for prices to go down .. if u were to think 2 more steps ahead .. u could prolly answer that urself ... or wouldnt have had the urge to spam forums with that nonsense

you know whats the problem again?
it's the feature that china has (NPC) to sell items and\or accounts for real money.

it's easy as pie:
open keys, drop items, sell items for dollars, charge dollars for gold

win win for everyone, players, economy and PWE

@kalystconquerer#0876​​

The best solution to contain hyperinflation is to remove JoJ and the AH limit.

To not harm novice players, create a mission that can only be done once every 10 levels giving a quantity of coins.

Exemple:
Lvl 20-29 = 300k
Lvl 30-39 = 600k
Lvl 40-49 = 1m
Lvl 50-59 = 1.5m
Lvl 60-69 = 2m
Lvl 70-79 = 2.5m
Lvl 80-89 = 5m
Lvl 90-99 = 5m

With this system, newbies would have money to pay for basic things like pots and teleports and as it is a mission made only once, will not inflate the game.

At this point I’m sure they just don’t care. Black Friday imo was the best sale of the year everything else is usually mediocre. In the 9 yrs I’ve been playing this by far was the worst in terms of planning and what was offered to old and new. BS keys causing inflation, rediculous expensive nebula orbs may aswell make 20.0 double the price now too Pwi lock more ppl out of upgrades why don’t you. Oh also don’t forget to let ppl just log bs pill babies for free +3 stones just messing with the economy heavily. I know it sounds cynical but how did you manage to mess up one of the most sought out time of year for cash shopping with just half baked delusional ideas of “sales” at this point this thread feels mute and may aswell be closed.

See you guys in about 3 weeks when keys come back for “Special Chrismas sale” if not that I’m sure it will during New Years, giving the economy no time to recover from both of these two economically detrimental ideas good game Pwi good game

I'll touch upon some of the other points before I dive into the main bit of this thread -

The CN devs in general, are always on the "forward thinking" track, making and generating new content. While this is great it most cases, this means certain older content they seem very reluctant to touch. They can do things like change FSP/UP/DH because those are more "current" than say, TT/Lunar/Nirvana. I haven't asked for the very detailed explanation as to why, but suffice to say, it sounds like its an issue of not wanting to break anything in the old code that could affect other parts of the game. Workarounds can be things like :

-New instances/maps with the old boss models with new drop tables
-Reused maps with old boss models but new quests with rewards comparable with today's meta

Note : these are not definite "this is what's planned" but these are ways to touch the much older content that should (theoretically) not mess with the old code.

But I have to give them a very good reason for doing this. These are long term projects I'm working on with them. Putting these topics in front of them and asking for their opinions is the first step. They tend to not want to make super sweeping changes without the proper legwork done on it first, which is fair, since I'm asking them to put in time and resources to building something for us.

They have surprised me from time to time though when they do things to instances deemed to be "unworkable", but generally speaking, they seem to be pretty consistent with the "we don't touch old content". (The most recent exception here being "closing" Tigers/Dragon Temple/Forest Ruins/City of Abominations and fixing the CoA spam shortly before closing it)

For "selling accounts feature" that is in CN - that's not coming here, if anyone was ever wondering about it. This is addressed pretty thoroughly in our ToS. Any discussion facilitating the buying and selling of PWI accounts/characters (specifically soliciting information from other users, using 3rd party sites etc.) is not allowed.

For Selling Gold in the AH and raising the Gold Cap - devs said we can raise that cap from its current cap but they need the value of how much we want it raised by. However, I have not moved on this discussion with them since I asked them about it. We have generally been "hands off" with the economy, as far as directly influencing the Gold selling price.

For Key sales main topic - Typically, sales and promotion cycles are not announced ahead of time and are released when the blogs go live. Occasionally, certain types of events will show players what sales will happen (Such as Player's Choice voting) or when questions/suggestions filter though on the forums (in regards to cosmetic items). But outside of this, we don't notify players of promotions/sales ahead of time, especially if it concerns things like final sales of an item until that announcement goes out.

I'll try and go back over the thread to take a look at some of the suggestions people have (but I may or may not have talked about them previously, so if I have I might end up quoting myself as a response, since usually those stances haven't changed much in the past few months)

kalystconquerer#0876 wrote: »

I'll touch upon some of the other points before I dive into the main bit of this thread -

The CN devs in general, are always on the "forward thinking" track, making and generating new content. While this is great it most cases, this means certain older content they seem very reluctant to touch. They can do things like change FSP/UP/DH because those are more "current" than say, TT/Lunar/Nirvana. I haven't asked for the very detailed explanation as to why, but suffice to say, it sounds like its an issue of not wanting to break anything in the old code that could affect other parts of the game. Workarounds can be things like :

-New instances/maps with the old boss models with new drop tables
-Reused maps with old boss models but new quests with rewards comparable with today's meta

Note : these are not definite "this is what's planned" but these are ways to touch the much older content that should (theoretically) not mess with the old code.

But I have to give them a very good reason for doing this. These are long term projects I'm working on with them. Putting these topics in front of them and asking for their opinions is the first step. They tend to not want to make super sweeping changes without the proper legwork done on it first, which is fair, since I'm asking them to put in time and resources to building something for us.

They have surprised me from time to time though when they do things to instances deemed to be "unworkable", but generally speaking, they seem to be pretty consistent with the "we don't touch old content". (The most recent exception here being "closing" Tigers/Dragon Temple/Forest Ruins/City of Abominations and fixing the CoA spam shortly before closing it)

For "selling accounts feature" that is in CN - that's not coming here, if anyone was ever wondering about it. This is addressed pretty thoroughly in our ToS. Any discussion facilitating the buying and selling of PWI accounts/characters (specifically soliciting information from other users, using 3rd party sites etc.) is not allowed.

For Selling Gold in the AH and raising the Gold Cap - devs said we can raise that cap from its current cap but they need the value of how much we want it raised by. However, I have not moved on this discussion with them since I asked them about it. We have generally been "hands off" with the economy, as far as directly influencing the Gold selling price.

For Key sales main topic - Typically, sales and promotion cycles are not announced ahead of time and are released when the blogs go live. Occasionally, certain types of events will show players what sales will happen (Such as Player's Choice voting) or when questions/suggestions filter though on the forums (in regards to cosmetic items). But outside of this, we don't notify players of promotions/sales ahead of time, especially if it concerns things like final sales of an item until that announcement goes out.

I'll try and go back over the thread to take a look at some of the suggestions people have (but I may or may not have talked about them previously, so if I have I might end up quoting myself as a response, since usually those stances haven't changed much in the past few months)

Having a gold cap is the exact opposite of being "hands off" the economy. It's even worse when super-frequent key sales restrict the cap then push the actual gold price higher and higher past the cap to the point that it breaks the AH and no one can buy from it.

I think it's pretty obvious that PWI is trying to make it as hard as possible for players to take advantage of spend promos without paying real money with this sort of tactic - though obviously they would never admit it.

kalystconquerer#0876 wrote: »

I'll touch upon some of the other points before I dive into the main bit of this thread -

-SNIP-

For Selling Gold in the AH and raising the Gold Cap - devs said we can raise that cap from its current cap but they need the value of how much we want it raised by. However, I have not moved on this discussion with them since I asked them about it. We have generally been "hands off" with the economy, as far as directly influencing the Gold selling price.

For Key sales main topic - Typically, sales and promotion cycles are not announced ahead of time and are released when the blogs go live. Occasionally, certain types of events will show players what sales will happen (Such as Player's Choice voting) or when questions/suggestions filter though on the forums (in regards to cosmetic items). But outside of this, we don't notify players of promotions/sales ahead of time, especially if it concerns things like final sales of an item until that announcement goes out.

-SNIP

@kalystconquerer#0876
You need to reduce the amount of coins a person can carry in bag. You just need to reduce coin in bag to like say 500m not the current 1b. It used to be 200m. Also extend AH time limit by an additional 48 hours. Try this first. If it fails then try AH cap. You don't need to raise the AH gold cap price. But if you do 8-10m seems about right.

You need to restrict Key sales to 1 week per month and not more than 1 week per month. People will still buy the obscene amount of keys it just won't have lasting effect on short terms economy.

Your sales for several months are leaving something out and putting same things way too often. It's been a couple months since HS mats have been on sale for example.

So I see that keys are on sale again 100 for 18 gold, so more foils to massively increase inflation again. These constant sales are having the added effect that other CS items aren't being purchased nearly as much (since it is hard to justify spending gold on anything else while these sales happen) making other boutique items more & more rare - like fashion. It seems that there is little if any gold being spent on fash to keep it circulating through PW... catshops that sell fash have less inventory (and only stuff that is overpriced) and the auction-house also has nearly no new content, and the only old items have been there for quite a while.

So again please stop selling keys so often so cheaply with foils.