PWI Please stop selling so many keys
csquared5
Posts: 153 Arc User
It is really becoming irritating how frequently and how cheap keys are appearing in boutique.
Gold prices spike, and why wouldn't they? Keys basically print out money, causing massive inflation that homestead stopped helping combat long time ago. With gold prices so high, getting anything else from boutique is difficult unless you jack up the prices. Therefore sales that coincide with key sales tend to be completely wasted.
This is like the third key sale we've had in as many months, and this one is lasting a disgustingly long 2 weeks. Can we please tone down the length and frequency of key sales? A week here, or a weekend there, sure. But not all the time please. This is too much.
I even think consumers themselves are becoming saturated on keys. From what I can tell, not many keys were selling on my server in the last week or so, and prices were falling fast. There are so many other interesting packs and items you could put on sale, it doesn't just have to be keys all the time.
Nobody is interested in spend promos, PWI, when nobody can get actual gold through AH. Sure, a few cashers will enjoy the spend promos, but the large number of free to play users (who are just as essential to this game as the cashers) just get annoyed by all of these rewards they no longer have hope of getting.
Coinciding massive, long key sales with spend promos is a sure way to irritate a lot of ppl who try and try but simply can't get any gold through AH. It has become so that both 'spend' and 'charge' rewards are essentially just 'charge' rewards. Few ppl are foolish enough to sell gold to AH when myriad gold buyers offer 50% better prices out of ah. (In fact, many gold sellers I know won't even sell gold unless a Fortune Key sale is on, which makes it even more difficult to get stuff that people really want that isn't keys, such as mysterious chips, medal of glory, dragon orbs, or more, worsening the problem further.)
So yeah please, enough keys. Whatever *fix* you did to their drop rates (if it even happened) didn't go far enough. Their prices are too low and their rewards are too good. Fix either the price or the rates, and stop putting them so frequently into boutique please, it is boring and damaging the economy badly.
Gold prices spike, and why wouldn't they? Keys basically print out money, causing massive inflation that homestead stopped helping combat long time ago. With gold prices so high, getting anything else from boutique is difficult unless you jack up the prices. Therefore sales that coincide with key sales tend to be completely wasted.
This is like the third key sale we've had in as many months, and this one is lasting a disgustingly long 2 weeks. Can we please tone down the length and frequency of key sales? A week here, or a weekend there, sure. But not all the time please. This is too much.
I even think consumers themselves are becoming saturated on keys. From what I can tell, not many keys were selling on my server in the last week or so, and prices were falling fast. There are so many other interesting packs and items you could put on sale, it doesn't just have to be keys all the time.
Nobody is interested in spend promos, PWI, when nobody can get actual gold through AH. Sure, a few cashers will enjoy the spend promos, but the large number of free to play users (who are just as essential to this game as the cashers) just get annoyed by all of these rewards they no longer have hope of getting.
Coinciding massive, long key sales with spend promos is a sure way to irritate a lot of ppl who try and try but simply can't get any gold through AH. It has become so that both 'spend' and 'charge' rewards are essentially just 'charge' rewards. Few ppl are foolish enough to sell gold to AH when myriad gold buyers offer 50% better prices out of ah. (In fact, many gold sellers I know won't even sell gold unless a Fortune Key sale is on, which makes it even more difficult to get stuff that people really want that isn't keys, such as mysterious chips, medal of glory, dragon orbs, or more, worsening the problem further.)
So yeah please, enough keys. Whatever *fix* you did to their drop rates (if it even happened) didn't go far enough. Their prices are too low and their rewards are too good. Fix either the price or the rates, and stop putting them so frequently into boutique please, it is boring and damaging the economy badly.
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Good luck. Nice post..but me and many others have been constantly crying, since the first Key-Sale, that they just cannot happen and should never happen again. Ignored. As usual.
I mean, whats the issue, we just had a 2 week long Key sale 2 weeks ago and now again, and most likely again for Christmas...and again and again and again. Perfect time to raise the AH-Cap so that we can all enjoy 12m per gold <33
As for people trying to tell us that keys do not print money..I am one of the most unlucky ppl in PWI. When I opened keys..I got an items every 13 tries (when I had items above 50m value in a roll). I used a total of 3.2k keys during the last sale myself and I payed 1.2m on average for them. I ended up not making alot of profit, sure, cause I am unlucky as hell, but I got so many chances on extremely valuable items, incl. foils..if I just gotten such an item every 10-11 tries instead I would've made several Billions in profit. AS it is, I roughly made 200m + 1.1k lucky coins + warsouls + acc sockets/gems.
Yes, keys print money, and yes, they shall leave us forever because they are destroying the economy more than bots/1k-acc-JoJ ever could. IF you are a lucky person, even 10m per gold or 1.8m per key can still be worth it on average hence why increasing the AH cap would be so stupid..I don't even...0 -
I agree, I think that keys are ok IF the promos are made with a lot of time inbetween. However, I do agree that at the moment it's being ridiculous. Having a key sale every 3-4 months for ONE week I think would be ok, but 2 weeks on, wait 2 weeks off, 2 weeks on again, is being hurtful to the economy.
At the same time, look at MoG prices xD MoGs are going for 60M on Tideswell, GSTs for 15M, we had a 1 week sale on GSTs, MoGs nothing, people are craving rep gear but PWE keeps shoving keys down their throat.
I too am at fault, I'll prob open more keys this sale, they are profitable, they just are, it has luck involved but it's almost impossible to lose money on keys at the current price and EVEN if you do, it'll be a little. So, yeah, here we go again, it's key time i guess... -.-'
Mr. Justice0 -
@nbreaking Ahaha, 60m for Mogs? I'd buy 19 if they were that cheap on Dawnglory. Mogs are now going for 90m+ on our Server. Yeah, you read that right. 90m+, per MoG.
Dawnglory is especially screwed up atm.
EDIT: Oh excuse me. People are now buying for 68m in catshops and the only MoGs on the market are now being sold for 150m on Dawnglory. Awesome to be here
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PWI will be just fine. People will still buy keys. 3000+ keys opened already. No problem.0
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I too am at fault, I'll prob open more keys this sale, they are profitable, they just are, it has luck involved but it's almost impossible to lose money on keys at the current price and EVEN if you do, it'll be a little. So, yeah, here we go again, it's key time i guess... -.-'
It heavily depends how you value the gold. On Da for example it should be basically impossible to make profit on opening keys as I imagine gold there is easily 7m+ atm. On Et the gold price is 6.1m last I looked - Unless you are lucky you arent winning at that gold price either. There are always some luckboxes who will win despite that but opening keys tend not to be profitable at these gold prices. This is because you can always sell the keys yourself instead of opening them and its hard to match those rates on opening. Sure, you could of gotten your gold trough AH and its pretty hard to lose coin on 4m gold with keys but thats not exactly the right way to determine things as you arent accounting for the lucrative sales option at all.
Edit: If and when you open more, I urge you to compare the sales value of keys to what you pull from them if you arent doing that already. Its very easy to think you are making lots of coin getting foils here and there but due gold prices being absolutely ridiculous you might get even more just selling them.0 -
@saxroll nope, as I've said, I've opened 3.2k keys myself for 1.2m each and what I listed as profit was calculated in comparison of selling keys for 1.35m per instead. I am the unluckiest person alive. Legit. No joke.
I have also forgotten to mention that I roughly wasted 400 keys on additional rolls for items that I didnt even get in the end. So if I never had tried to reroll for more boxes in the key system...I would've made massive profits with the keys. I have asked roughly a dozen ppl opening thousands of keys and since the key system was introduces, even at 1.5m per key, they have always made a profit. ALWAYS.
I just don't get into my head why it is so god damn hard for PWE or PWCN to remove the effing foils from the keys. WHY?! That makes me so god damn mad because its illogical. It makes no sense at all.0 -
@saxroll nope, as I've said, I've opened 3.2k keys myself for 1.2m each and what I listed as profit was calculated in comparison of selling keys for 1.35m per instead. I am the unluckiest person alive. Legit. No joke.
I have also forgotten to mention that I roughly wasted 400 keys on additional rolls for items that I didnt even get in the end. So if I never had tried to reroll for more boxes in the key system...I would've made massive profits with the keys. I have asked roughly a dozen ppl opening thousands of keys and since the key system was introduces, even at 1.5m per key, they have always made a profit. ALWAYS.
I just don't get into my head why it is so god damn hard for PWE or PWCN to remove the effing foils from the keys. WHY?! That makes me so god damn mad because its illogical. It makes no sense at all.
Then you were just lucky or I am one unlucky person as I have opened tens of thousands of keys and ~5.5m is where I break even at. Of course, everything is more expensive on Da so what you pull is also worth more.
Ps. Isnt it obvious? They wont remove foils because it would affect their profits just like they keep spamming keys because they make a bank every time those are on sale.0 -
@saxroll nope, as I've said, I've opened 3.2k keys myself for 1.2m each and what I listed as profit was calculated in comparison of selling keys for 1.35m per instead. I am the unluckiest person alive. Legit. No joke.
I have also forgotten to mention that I roughly wasted 400 keys on additional rolls for items that I didnt even get in the end. So if I never had tried to reroll for more boxes in the key system...I would've made massive profits with the keys. I have asked roughly a dozen ppl opening thousands of keys and since the key system was introduces, even at 1.5m per key, they have always made a profit. ALWAYS.
I just don't get into my head why it is so god damn hard for PWE or PWCN to remove the effing foils from the keys. WHY?! That makes me so god damn mad because its illogical. It makes no sense at all.
Then you were just lucky or I am one unlucky person as I have opened tens of thousands of keys and ~5.5m is where I break even at. Of course, everything is more expensive on Da so what you pull is also worth more.
Ps. Isnt it obvious? They wont remove foils because it would affect their profits just like they keep spamming keys because they make a bank every time those are on sale.
The best policies don't have to be the most popular ones. I'm sure PWI has taken a look at the results and their bottom line and made a conclusion that the long-term health of the game is not worth giving up the money in the short term.0 -
Keys aren't the problem, foils are the problem. Selling keys at 18g is fine and dandy w/o the foils.
I expect that the amount of new coins generated from foils/tokens of best luck greatly exceeds the coins generated from jolly jones on an annual basis. I would love to see the numbers on this.0 -
@geochris With the quantity of recent key sales..yes, for sure. Easily. There might be people generating roughly 30b coins in a month with JoJ bots all server combined. So roughly 8b per server.
In a keysale...2 weeks..thats roughly 200.000-300.000 keys used. Take into consideration Best Luck and Foils on average you can say that (just coin generation, personal profit will be disregarded now) 100 Keys roughly yield 1 foil item and 3-4 best luck (from my experience). Since the foil items are so different in value..lets just go for 100m, so 120m with best luck combined.
Thats 3.000 x 120m over the sale resulting in 360b coins generated by 300.000 keys used. Even if we lowball it to 100.000 keys..thats still 120b coins...even at 12m goldprice this equals 12.000 gold. That is insanity. Nothing short of insanity. Now also take into consideration that any gold that is being spent had to be charged before. 18g per 100 keys is a whopping total of 54.000 gold or 54.000 USD with no charge promo intact. Per server. Only in keys. Damn.
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It isn't about whether keys are worth opening at such-and-such gold price. Point is, at current AH gold cap prices, they are so incredibly worth opening. This drives gold prices up to levels such that no gold seller in their right mind would sell their gold to the AH system, where not only do they NOT get spend promo, they also don't get the best price! With this double-whammy of factors, it is almost impossible to amass any significant quantity of gold through in-game measures anymore. Spend rewards are really just charge rewards in disguise. Keys seem to be break-even at around 6 to 6.5m per gold, and therefore, that is what gold price naturally gravitates towards, as key openers and key merchanters compete for the limited amount of gold being sold. Every other sale gets left to the side in the face of the overwhelming value of keys.
And yes it really is the foils. Gems that would otherwise be amassed in quantities too large to be sold (and would therefore exert downward pressure on price) are instead exchanged for huge sums of money. When keys are giving such large amounts of money you'd have to be stupid *not* to open or resell them for a lot of money.
I mean, here's a quick list of pros and cons.
Pros of keys:
-get a few exclusive items
-general reduction of some pack items for some time
-at ah-cap prices, can make a lot of money opening them
Cons
-massive inflation as excessive money enters server from foils
-inflation drives gold prices very high, so everything except keys becomes difficult to afford for duration of key sale
-sky-high gold price means very few people sell gold into ah system, and amassing gold in-game becomes nearly impossible
-inability to access gold means no access to spend promos
-regularity and duration of key sales cause gold sellers to avoid selling gold outside of key sales---**** with even more sales that people genuinely need to access
The slight reduction in pack items is offset by the skyrocketing prices of every other boutique item. The large influx of coin is offset by the skyrocketing gold prices. The net result of all these factors is to once again put excessive power into the person who cashes money into this game, driving away base of free-to-play players that are just as necessary for this game as the players who spend.
IN conclusion: fortune keys should be a rare treat, NOT some regular appearance! We can't have people expecting and waiting for the 'key sale' to pop up! Please, please, stop making the fortune key sales so long and so regular. Can we say once every 2 months at most? Thanks!
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Please, please, stop making the fortune key sales so long and so regular. Can we say once every 2 months at most? Thanks!
You act as if PWE gave a **** bout longevity of this game. All they want is as much money as possible in as short time period as possible, no **** given what it does to the game. PWE has yet to make a single decision to put longevity of this game ahead of short time profits. Only sorta such decision was NP promos ending but in reality it was nothing but wanting more than the 1,2k/card, lol. I wouldnt put any value on what PWE staff says any longer when all their actions speak in volumes against their words. Keys are too lucrative for PWE to stop, we had the 30g/100 keys sale price for one whopping sale till it went back to 18g/100, guess it really hit the popularity of them, lol.0 -
Is it me or did Diamond of Dragons and Diamond of Tigers didn’t break 100m+ until keys became considerably out of control. I remember buying dozens of DoDs easily 85m then 1 key sale sometime after July and they reached over 100m another key 115m. If this is due to the massive print off of money then I don’t see how a general reduction of pack items is happening besides maybe charms and lucky coins. All in all it’s literally making items out of reach. @csquares5 I tend to stay away from packs due to my luck so not sure on rates105/105/105 Seeking ScallyMode
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Well blazerboy, I think differently. Here's my logic:
1) A lot of people are sitting on an 'old endgame' build. This basically means r9rr+12 with jades or deity shards. They are looking to upgrade their gear in whatever way they can.
2) NP as a gear upgrade option isn't an option for many people anymore, since the 1200 spend promo disappeared.
3) Star charts, war avatar cards, and glyphs are mostly stable at this point, and upgrading any higher would be quite costly for little to no benefit. Additionally, with star chart and war avatar cards, you don't know what sort of reward you'll get for the money you invest (e.g. nebula dust orbs---you might get something better than your existing chart, or you might get nothing, or with opening S War Avatar Packs, you might get something or you might get nothing).
3) Therefore, +3 shards (serenity or devil stones) become an appealing option as the next logical upgrade path.
4) The rise of 3v3 has especially fueled the desire by some endgame players to better their tankiness or dmg as much as possible, and +3 shards is a surefire way to achieve this goal with a measurable cost.
So, if my logic here is correct, the demand for dods and dots already existed independently of any sales in effect. Then:
5) Key sales released a larger than normal quantity of dod and dots into the marketplace. Seeing this, more people decided that +3 shards would be their next gear upgrade.
6) The demand for dods and dots quickly outstripped the supply and prices began to rise (and why not: you need a staggering 9 dod or dots to make one +3 shard---even for people just upgrading from +2 gems, that is (6*24=144 gems PER PERSON). A couple people can easily drain the market of gems. A lot of fortune keys are being opened, yes, but that doesn't mean that the odds for them are really that much better (if at all) than packs.
So while prices have, in fact, been decreasing overall (on things where demand is stable, like lower level gems, warsoul mats, various low-level pack items like cube necks and warsoul bets etc), the demand for dod and dot has outstripped the supply even fortune keys can supply, so their prices have bucked the overall trend.
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While ppl having more of a reason to +3 their gear is definitely part of the reason, its not the largest. Main reason why DoD/DoT jumped is because keys made bank to mid tier merchants/CSers. They now had means to jade/deity their gear unlike before. I can only speak for Et but I cant really think of many new +3 sharded pieces on server and yet there is constant competition for shards by ppl I know arent fully sharded yet.0
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i bet 50 keys that no official will reply to your post, aeliah0
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I disagree, because from my logic..or rather that should be common sense...only fools go for +3 shards and only a minority does that. Just to go from +2 to +3 is enough money to full r9 +11 + fully jaded/deity NEW character that would only be slightly weaker in gears compared to your +12 toon. Who in the right mind would not roll another class. Sure its legit if you have absolutely bo interest in any other class but even then..a measly 24 att/def lvl hardly make a big difference. If you have no other option, sure, but only very few people are at this point.
Personally I'd never go for that, even if someone would gift me 48x jades for the SB. Such an expensive, minor upgrade...I can only reject that option in any regard.
Priced for DoDs and stuff have only risen because people generated loads of coins and there really isnt much else to spend it on if you are high refined already. Get jades or deity and a crapload of people did that on DA. Dozens of dozens of people.0 -
I disagree, because from my logic..or rather that should be common sense...only fools go for +3 shards and only a minority does that. Just to go from +2 to +3 is enough money to full r9 +11 + fully jaded/deity NEW character that would only be slightly weaker in gears compared to your +12 toon. Who in the right mind would not roll another class. Sure its legit if you have absolutely bo interest in any other class but even then..a measly 24 att/def lvl hardly make a big difference. If you have no other option, sure, but only very few people are at this point.
Personally I'd never go for that, even if someone would gift me 48x jades for the SB. Such an expensive, minor upgrade...I can only reject that option in any regard.
Priced for DoDs and stuff have only risen because people generated loads of coins and there really isnt much else to spend it on if you are high refined already. Get jades or deity and a crapload of people did that on DA. Dozens of dozens of people.
I have to disagree. A lot of people don't have an interest in having geared alts of various classes. A lot of people I know would very much like to max out one character, and be their best at one thing, rather than be a jack of all trades. If that makes all of these people fools than fools they are---but they'll be better geared fools than those who choose to invest in character after character without ever maxing out any of them.
As far as the costs escalating the closer you get to endgame, that is nothing new either. Every tier of upgrades is always multiple times more expensive than the previous tier. This goes for everything from choices of gear, to choices of gems, refines, war avatar cards, star chart, glyphs, and more.
To a person whose priority is to max out their character, of course, you try and get the most 'bang for your buck' by doing all the highly-effective upgrades first. IE for each type of upgrade, gear, refines, star chart, glyphs, etc, you get each thing to a certain level, where upgrading it further becomes prohibitively expensive. But at a certain point, you get all of those upgrades done. What next? G17 r4 or r5 weapon? Months and maybe years of saving before you achieve your result. Better star chart? Better card set? Always a gamble. But +3 shards, at least, is something you can slowly work on, one gem at a time. They may be expensive but they are guaranteed. The cost is predictable, the gains measurable. Somebody with 'only' 24 more defense levels is still a lot stronger than you are I, if they have it and we don't.
Remember when +12 was viewed as ridiculous and not worth it? Or jades? Those days have come and gone, as people eventually, inevitably, get their gear to a certain point where the previously unthinkable upgrade becomes the only logical upgrade.
Back on topic though yeah, I really don't like these key sales. Please take them away.0 -
i bet 50 keys that no official will reply to your post, aeliah
Oh? Oh oh oh, sounds like I need to send a message to some gms hrhrhr...0 -
Priced for DoDs and stuff have only risen because people generated loads of coins and there really isnt much else to spend it on if you are high refined already. Get jades or deity and a crapload of people did that on DA. Dozens of dozens of people.
There's a ton we could spend on. PWI just isn't allowing it by purposely raising the gold price above cap, because they know it forces people to charge real money for gold regardless of their in-game wealth.
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funny thing is people consider buying keys, using them, and selling keys = farming. hahaha
10 op people from vindicate already left pwi 2 weeks. i can only hope other people follow their example.
Simple Logic they just realize something.
Normal MMORPG - go to dungeon to get gears. sense of accomplishment that will make u cherish ur toon.
PWI - buy your gears, +12 them to go to dungeon. they dont really feel anything for their toon.
and op people complaining they re bored. ofc if you finish an instance 5-15 mins. what you gonna do next. nothing?
i couldnt care less whether or not pwi sells gazillion keys on the market. its even better that way. GOLD prices are already 6m on TT server even before keys are on sale. MORE KEYS = more CHEAP STUFF. its gonna happen soon coz nobody is buying their expensive stuff.
NORMAL NON CASHER LIKE me AND YOU shouldn't COMPLAIN ABOUT THIS STUFF. coz THE MORE KEYS THERE IS THE MORE STUFF WE CAN GET CHEAPER THAN THEY ORIGINALLY ARE.
i think most of the animosity comes from people who spends their fortune on to this game. MORE keys = lesser profit for their expensive stuff. the lesser the rarity of their "treasures", the cheaper it gets.
NON CASHERS should praise pwi for selling keys its advantage for us and lost to heavy cashers.0 -
@sleeper1#0704 it’s like you didn’t even read a single post105/105/105 Seeking ScallyMode
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@sleeper1#0704 Wat? What exactly has been reduced in prices except for Acc Socket Stones (they have been that low before. They simply spiked because the 3rd and 4th sock has been released and demand was there again. Now everyone and their mom has already 4 socks and hence they are worthless now), Cube necks (cause yeah, no real market left for them), the low level ornaments (WS belt, Lunar rings) and low gear like WotCC, Matchless wings, etc. ... Stuff that really matters like shards (DoD, DoT, Sov, Genie), CoM, etc ... are at their highest prices for months, FSP coins are also insanely high in price again (due to low FSP coin rewards overall).
I don't really see where needed items are significantly cheaper than before..when all the items that are trully needed for endgame are so god damn expensive right now. Also doesn't help F2P people that wanna go r9 if they have to pay 16m per GST and 70m per MoG (if they are lucky) with literally no way to farm coins. Yeah, it definitely is nice to be F2P right now 0 -
@sleeper1#0704
I don't really see where needed items are significantly cheaper than before..when all the items that are trully needed for endgame are so god damn expensive right now. Also doesn't help F2P people that wanna go r9 if they have to pay 16m per GST and 70m per MoG (if they are lucky) with literally no way to farm coins. Yeah, it definitely is nice to be F2P right now
Some catshops in dawnglory had the brilliant idea of going past the 70m mark. Now they are selling mogs for 100-150m (buy price and some wc calls has them around 70m, though), and I'm wondering if this is the REAL price, or if these players are just plain greedy.
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Short and simple,
I dont think the Demand for the CS items is helping the Coin cost in game.
Keys are one of the items when they are on sale.0 -
Like I've been saying for the past half-year or so since the exact day they added foils to keys...they are extremely insidious and on another level from anything PWI has done. But of course no one agreed with me or made threads until it was too late, because everyone's an expert on the economy
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I think it will take awhile yet for people to realize why capped gold ends up **** the economy even harder.
If you look at the items not affected by increasing demand or consumed by foils, like Matchless Wings or lucky coins, the prices for those items are falling fast. At one point wings were selling for something like 150m.
ATM the best way to "farm" items is to open keys, especially since rich CS'ers can no longer sell or buy gold through AH - it's just better for those people to spam keys.
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Im still not sure on the gold cap.
Tho... Matchless wings and Coins are falling because of flooding into the game.
Im set on Keys not being good however you remove Keys and coins will go up in value. Thats supply and demand tho. The same is true to gold in the AH. their is no supply gold as everyone is buying keys.0 -
It is just the status of the game right now. Look at all the exploitative charge and spend promos going on. Look at the sale and purchases of accounts with PWE doing nothing about because they are cash shoppers. PWE's marketing right now is wholly inconsistent with their own TOS. It is going private server mode.0
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@sleeper1#0704 Stuff that really matters
Oh My God, Man - get over yourself. Endgame is *not* the only way to play this game, nor are the *majority* of players ever gonna reach that mythical gear combination - and yet they still seem to have fun and keep playing anyway.
If that's what you're looking for then knock yourself out, but blowing off the other 80% of the server population is just showing your @ss.
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https://youtu.be/RkkWkigYd3k
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