Preferential ticket treatment

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aensidhe
aensidhe Posts: 178 Arc User
Dear PWE and CMs,

I think it is about time to start cleaning house. The selective treatment of players based on who tickets who and who cash shops more is getting ridiculous. I see players getting suspended for alleged account sharing - do you know how many players account share to keep this game alive? Furthermore, if you justify taking punitive action against a ticketed player for account sharing, you need to be consistent in your treatment of other account sharers.

But, we dont see that - instead suspensions come on a ticket-by-cashshop basis, so we see unequal treatment of players who invest time and money into the game.

Then there are those suspect tickets where personal grudges against players are submitted as tickets under false pretenses of TOS abuse, while genuine tickets are being buried. For example, we saw that case of players standing on the same AFK spot, where players were suspended for innocuous reasons, and then the lack of response for players who abuse the TOS by glitching cata barbs in trees/rocks/gates.

For the sake of maintaining an active and healthy game, I strongly encourage the fair GMs and CMs to investigate this and prevent future inequity.

Thank you (and please do not bury this ticket as you did the previous one submitted by another player from a different server).

Comments

  • aensidhe
    aensidhe Posts: 178 Arc User
    edited April 2017
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    Well done GM's for going on a ban spree just on Twilight Temple. Instead of banning account sellers and gold sellers and glitchers, players who have been with PWI since launch are getting banned for just the mere malicious ticket on account sharing. So a player who asks his sister to log on for dailies will get banned.

    Furthermore, the same case is treated inconsistently depending on the player. Some get a tap on the wrist, others face a perma ban.

    Let me give you some tips on how to use statistics to check the truth behind allegations:

    1. See whether the spike in tickets is exclusively to one server or systematic;
    2. Check the IP address to see if they have been static since launch or highly variable, controlling for travel;
    3. Be aware that original account holders may not recall all their previous security questions and answers - they change them for security renewal and would not all keep records of older checks (because they didn't need to). HOWEVER, true account sellers will recall older questions with 100% certainty because these are on their sale records.

    Without due consideration of the above, PWE risks treating false positives as a given and banning original account holders unfairly, which is what is happening on TT atm.
  • joecisco
    joecisco Posts: 102 Arc User
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    I'm not sure why original account holders would not be able to answer their security questions. I mean, the whole point of a security question is to ask something you would know. Sure you may have changed the question options since, but it's not like you could forget the original questions answers.
    Unless that is, you didn't use honest responses in the first place.

    I agree, all violators should be treated similarly. However there is probably more to it than you are aware of. Such as previous infractions, or the severity of the current infraction. It could just be GM's being stupid too. It's not like we haven't seen this before either.

    On TT Original account holders should get banned for sharing their accounts. The persons using said shared accounts should be getting bans too. I'd be willing to be they are putting the great scope of this into consideration, though I can see how a couple of accounts might get stuck in the process if there are siblings, or some other shared IP address issues.
  • drmotts
    drmotts Posts: 5 Arc User
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    joecisco wrote: »
    I'm not sure why original account holders would not be able to answer their security questions. I mean, the whole point of a security question is to ask something you would know. Sure you may have changed the question options since, but it's not like you could forget the original questions answers.
    Unless that is, you didn't use honest responses in the first place.

    I agree, all violators should be treated similarly. However there is probably more to it than you are aware of. Such as previous infractions, or the severity of the current infraction. It could just be GM's being stupid too. It's not like we haven't seen this before either.

    On TT Original account holders should get banned for sharing their accounts. The persons using said shared accounts should be getting bans too. I'd be willing to be they are putting the great scope of this into consideration, though I can see how a couple of accounts might get stuck in the process if there are siblings, or some other shared IP address issues.



    I beg to differ on this response. I have been on this game since 2007. I lost an account due to email inactivity. When I made an attempt to recover my account they asked me for an answer to a security question I would have NEVER picked as a security question. They asked me what is the first game I ever played. Having been playing video games for over 30 years I wouldn't have the slightest clue how I would have answered that question years ago when the account was made.
  • aensidhe
    aensidhe Posts: 178 Arc User
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    Well if anyone needs further proof of inconsistent applications of their own TOS. We have alt accounts still banned since the last ban spree due to alleged account sharing, despite the owners submitting original security check questions.

    In the meantime, PWI has restored a sold account back to the original owner. The original owner has been ticketed against several times for sharing and selling his account, but each time he sells it, the GMs restore it to him after a while. On the criteria of either account sharing or account sale, he has already violated the TOS several times. And yet despite screenshots being sent, PWI still restores the account.

    This is not even just about consistency anymore, but PWI is basically encouraging breaches of their own TOS in select circumstances by encouraging scammers. It's like they just want to destroy the game given their recent track record.
  • eirghan
    eirghan Posts: 1,912 Arc User
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    This is absolutely true and its abysmal that PW mods had to sink this thread to keep it under wraps.

    I've been banned for account sharing in the past (I was the first that PWI enforced, before reporting people for account sharing was actually a thing) due to someone reporting me using a screenshot they took while on a shared account. The shared account of the reporter was not banned. Obviously I did get my account back, and I think that is fair considering it was the first of many warnings to players to follow this part of the TOS. However, though I have decided to no longer account share so as to not risk my account, many people still break this rule and it is impossible for PWI to enforce it fairly. I think this needs to be addressed.

    Currently on TT a well known player, who sold their account to another party a few months ago, returned and got GMs to restore access, allowing them to scam another player of hundreds of dollars. This is not the first, another account has been perma-banned for the same thing (selling an account and either never giving access or getting access back through GMs).

    PW needs to stop throwing the curtain over these issues and deal with them head on.​​
  • tricksie
    tricksie Posts: 189 Arc User
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    Why is this topic hidden?
    Throw money at PWI and have all your transgressions ignored? So many scandals with PWI lately you'd think they'd want to at least follow their own TOS.​​
    z56fd27dc94746.gif
    egg-44.gif <~ these need to come back into the CS.

  • eirghan
    eirghan Posts: 1,912 Arc User
    edited May 2017
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    tricksie wrote: »
    Why is this topic hidden?
    Throw money at PWI and have all your transgressions ignored? So many scandals with PWI lately you'd think they'd want to at least follow their own TOS.

    Isn't it clear? PWE doesn't need to follow their own TOS.

    Look at the thread regarding the astrid promo.

    @sawyers writes:
    Do you know what: YOU violate your own ToS rule number 15.2 j:
    "engage in any actions that defraud or attempt to defraud, scam or cheat others out of any items that have been earned through authorized game play"

    Kalyst responds:
    "Section 15 in it's entirety refers to User Conduct."

    It's user conduct only. PWE doesn't have to abide by anything. They don't even have to abide by the law unless you have the money to back yourself up in court.​​
  • kalystconquerer#0876
    kalystconquerer#0876 Posts: 1,421 Perfect World Employee
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    I normally do not cite ToS on anything except in the case of encouraging chargebacks, etc. If you have specific issues regarding the way Customer Support handles specific account related issues, that's not something I can action on, as I've stated on multiple occasions. I didn't move this thread (if it was moved?), so it's most likely because it belonged in this forum, not because it was trying to be hidden.
  • shopalong#1200
    shopalong#1200 Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited June 2017
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    > @kalystconquerer#0876 said:
    > I normally do not cite ToS on anything except in the case of encouraging chargebacks, etc. If you have specific issues regarding the way Customer Support handles specific account related issues, that's not something I can action on, as I've stated on multiple occasions. I didn't move this thread (if it was moved?), so it's most likely because it belonged in this forum, not because it was trying to be hidden.


    If it's not hidden then there is definitely a bug somewhere with this thread that needs to be resolved. Convenient because I know a lot more people would be interested in a response to this problem.


    If you don't have any ability to look into a problem like this who would? I think it's extremely important that we get an actual response that this is being looked into.

    Another example of some sort of favoritism or benefiting certain factions while acting against others is the most recent XTW bug.

    It's fantastic that the developers have finally been confident to act on such a major problem with XTW and perform a rollback to correct the issues a few weeks back.

    However why the sudden action now?
    The first two seasons of XTW were in direct favor of certain servers and factions yet there was no huge movement on the forums to perform a rollback or any action to fix the issue. There were even rewards distributed unfairly and the second season never reset points for some giving them a head start that was never approachable.


    What changed?

    The fact that a specific faction was targeting another faction on the forums and complained the most about how lucky they got?

    Yes vindicate got extremely lucky

    Yes they wouldn't have been able to win all of those fights naturally

    Yes it was unfair

    This has been the precedent from PWI that they don't care about the outcomes.

    What changed?

    I'm VERY concerned about the consistency of action from PWI. Whether it's on purpose or not it's unacceptable and it causes your playerbase to lose respect in the game itself.

    In resolution I'd like for someone to provide either direct contact info or at the very least refer upper management in customer/client services to these concerns.

    As players of this game and especially people who charge should have some way to reach out to support without having to worry that their voices aren't being heard or silenced in some way.

    I respect anyone who deals with customers on a day to day basis, from personal experience I can definitely understand how much **** you have to deal with especially coming from a video game and a bunch of keyboard warriors attacking you 24/7. (Cr.ap is a blocked word? XD)

    However I do think that doesn't mean they can't be kept in check because it definitely doesn't seem like PWI has any kind of checks and balances when it comes to bans/tickets/resolutions or any action.

    What can you do to help people who feel like me to recover our respect for this game and it's management? Who can we talk to that is not favoring specific players/factions/servers to hear our concerns fairly?
    Post edited by shopalong#1200 on
  • keihan007#7641
    keihan007#7641 Posts: 1,190 Arc User
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    Is there seriously calls for favoritism for fixing a bug in the fairest possible manner?
    BlackList vs Frenzied 3/17

    https://youtu.be/RkkWkigYd3k
  • sylenthunder
    sylenthunder Posts: 3,061 Community Moderator
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    @shopalong#1200 I think what changed is that we now have a CM that is more vocal, and in contact, with China than any previous excepting frankieraye. The problem with the frankieraye era was that the developers in China were complete noobs. (Seriously, it was really sad that I knew more about how the core code worked than they did. I spent a lot of time talking to them also.)

    Kalyst also has a strong history in QA, so she knows what she needs to say to make things happen if it is at all possible. And who knows, maybe China has finally started to wake up and pay more attention to our version of the game. It's hard for me to comment on this since almost every contact I have had in PWE or PW-CN has dried up. This is because they've moved on to better positions/companies.

    As to the thread being moved/hidden, I don't have information on that. I thought it was always in this forum, and I'm not able to find any history showing otherwise.​​
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  • shopalong#1200
    shopalong#1200 Posts: 5 Arc User
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    saxroll wrote: »
    Is there seriously calls for favoritism for fixing a bug in the fairest possible manner?

    It was definitely the right choice/fix for this situation. My concern is why hasn't this sort of action been done before when there were multiple other factions that benefited from issues just like this one.

    @shopalong#1200 I think what changed is that we now have a CM that is more vocal, and in contact, with China than any previous excepting frankieraye. The problem with the frankieraye era was that the developers in China were complete noobs. (Seriously, it was really sad that I knew more about how the core code worked than they did. I spent a lot of time talking to them also.)

    Kalyst also has a strong history in QA, so she knows what she needs to say to make things happen if it is at all possible. And who knows, maybe China has finally started to wake up and pay more attention to our version of the game. It's hard for me to comment on this since almost every contact I have had in PWE or PW-CN has dried up. This is because they've moved on to better positions/companies.

    As to the thread being moved/hidden, I don't have information on that. I thought it was always in this forum, and I'm not able to find any history showing otherwise.​​

    That's good to hear, I definitely respect and understand the action taken this past week. I am not complaining at that progress whatsoever. I am primarily concerned as to why this was treated differently than previous issues?

    Idk what's up with the quotes either, I've never been active in forum before now and don't keep track of who is who but it didn't copy the quote of anything I said but it used my username.

    I think the thread is showing up properly now, is it possible if a mod responds it doesn't push the thread up? I was definitely seeing older posts and this one seemed to be on another page up until I replied to it.




    All in all I think a lot of us would be happy if there was some sort of connection made between pwi and pwcn that actually moderates the moderators&employees. The purpose being a fair treatment of all issues like this one that requires action from development and not just influenced based on how many people the affected faction can complain about.


    It definitely seems like this scenario was heavily influenced by the outcry of the faction that got pushed to 1st place. I guess when origins xtw points never got reset people didn't raise enough awareness in the forums at the time to put it on the moderators radar resulting in no action taken to correct it. Same with the rewards distributed for the first season of xtw that favored a particular server (I don't remember which) would by default win all fights when no one was able to enter.


    So just to summarize, if the actions taken this past week continues then fantastic. However you can't disagree that it can be a bit frustrating from the playerbase if these actions aren't consistent and only seem to matter about who tickets/posts more.

    I would suggest being more active in the game/understanding the politics that go on because inadvertently if you end up singling out a faction or a server then what's the point of continuing to play the game? I like the game, I like the community more, it's the only reason I still play this game with my friends.... if we can't rely on the actual rules of the game being followed for everyone then it's very discouraging...

    Thanks for the replies, I hope you take in what I said as constructive criticism in ways to understand your playerbase. I tried to keep the emotion out of it but being someone who has played this game since 2009 it can definitely be frustrating if you are more concerned about the management of the game and it actually working properly than playing the game itself.


    Hopefully things will continue to get better, thanks for the hard work getting things cleared up with the developers, Kaly. I know developers are usually less than happy when they have to be bothered by "menial" things like this.
  • phantomforce#4598
    phantomforce#4598 Posts: 397 Community Moderator
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    Idk what's up with the quotes either, I've never been active in forum before now and don't keep track of who is who but it didn't copy the quote of anything I said but it used my username.

    I think the thread is showing up properly now, is it possible if a mod responds it doesn't push the thread up? I was definitely seeing older posts and this one seemed to be on another page up until I replied to it.
    The forum has been really flaky for a week or so. Some code isn't working properly or somesuch. (I think it's a week. When did the color stop working?)
    It is probably just a Vanilla bug. I noticed quotes starting to show funny about the time the other codes stopped.​​
  • coopoor
    coopoor Posts: 50 Arc User
    edited June 2017
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    interesting i been playing this game for 7 years have had 2 strokes along the way i know plenty of older people who health is in decline asking how come someone may not remember secruity questions as a lone deterrent isn t fair. an yes there is perferred treatment in game it starts at the top an works its way the game itself [random packs an random everything] too many aricles out on how there is no fandom with computer games. This is how you see people winning scroll of tomes 2-3 times while others not once even thou the other may have spent 2-3 times the money that the person who has won items. This means when i see random i know now it means unfair. Pwi would do better if it made players use auction house instead of cat shops. just simply do away with cat shop period an focus more on auction maybe removing some of the restrictions governing auction houses this would help with the lag in some of the major cities that players always complain about. there are some active players i know with four to five catshops an play the game as well how do you stop a person from doing this you could ban them yes but that alone may or may not fix problem a more better solution would be to do away with cat shop option an something else if a character is inactive for a certain amount of time i mean no chatting no moving the server will automatically boot the account off game Pwi an game can do this i have seen it done on GuildWars 2 Guild wars 2 systems works the auction house is full of people selling there stuff an game is uncluttered from cat shops. Do anyway with random system. It is not random it favors certain player or numbers over others reason i say numbers is because we all are given a number when we may an account the numbers determine what the packs are given to a person who obtains them. the number than is thrown in the random sysytem which may never come up because no matter how much you say its random to many well educated people say a truly random system on a computer can not be done. Whe the basice system a computer understands is 1 an zero . so the game is have an have nots very simply put. It is unfair an may be discriminatory too players. This isn't very hard too prove in a court of law. In china where this game orginated it may be perfectly legal in theUnited States an other countries where they have laws against gambling. This practice of random numbers may be illegal. the counter agurement would be states run a lottery but States have be known too turn a blind eye to this an say the money goes to education or highways or anything good for the general public too save there tail or justify the means of a randon lottery. Here the random numbers are strictly for profit of the game which may be breaking the laws of gambling. All this takes is one case to be taken an won against PWI . I am sure that PWI has put this under a calculated risk. so far it has panned out for you luckily. has with all games with alot of online time eventually luck runs out. PWi won t be able to shrug the shoulders an say sorry alot will be paid out. My advice to the game would be clean it up take some of the suggestions do away with the random system completely There are many other games that don t have the problems PWI has.It only takes one to ruin the game an game writers are lazy.
    I read up above about one person compain of preferred treatment My average time in getting something done out of tickets system may be about a dozen tickets half nice half not so nice all of the being answer 3 to 5 times an maybe 2 to 3 weeks of pure fighting with game management to get anything done. NOTE TO ALL I HAVE BEEN BANNED FOR TICKET ABUSE before but my response is if you did your job maybe i wouldn t abuse the system sorry if i am wrong but this game has been here awhile an i am a boss at my job i work in which i am expected to get results so the same applies here to the ticketing system . I agree with the person who suggest that Pwi an Pwcn have a direct line of communication that doesn t take days or weeks just a few hours should be max time.It is really very annoying an shows a lack of interest on managements part an this effects players involved. Such lack of interst would lead to firing.People play this game inhopes of being the best at what they do whether that be in real life or game I know this much as a parent. I have tried too teach my kids to do their best in what they do . I know every parent does the same with their kids.The players of this game expect that from PWI an PWCN.