Scheduled Server Maintenance [3/28/2017 - 11 PM PST]

kalystconquerer#0876 · March 2017

Good evening PWI players!

We will be having our regular server maintenance tonight at 11pm PST. Tonight's maintenance will have no patch-restart only!

*Tentative Duration*

Maintenance is expected to last approximately 4 hours, so during that time you will not be able to access the live servers.
*Maintenance times are tentative and are subject to change at any time. Actual end times will vary depending on the progress of the maintenance.

Thank you for your patience and we apologize for the inconvenience.

- The PWI Crew

Tonight's Maintenance Question : Would offshoot builds work in this meta (i.e. HA Veno, HA/LA Cleric) and why or why not? If you could, and weren't limited by time or money, would you actively make these builds?

drgnpoison · March 2017

no no they wouldnt work in the current meta where its hit as hard as you can b4 you go dead

lv100togekiss · March 2017

Depends on what you want out of it. I have a 90 la cleric. It survives hits, but takes an extra skill to down the mob. My reasoning was that it is always buffed, but thinking going aa for rebirth.

Also have a veno that will be la due to an increased focus on Fox skills. No intention of changing that.

matthew4 · March 2017

I Havel HA veno more phy deffens

nunuator · March 2017

Would offshoot builds work in this meta (i.e. HA Veno, HA/LA Cleric) and why or why not? If you could, and weren't limited by time or money, would you actively make these builds?

Well if Money or time was not an issue I'd max out my APS DB and APS seeker with 4th cast G17 weps and a G17 +80 def lvl wep to live when not locking full +3 attack level stones of course and nuema portal rb2 so the builds are somewhat viable...

I'm all about the offshoot builds to be completely honest and people on twilight temple know that I troll with them (APS DB newest addition) but, I think I might just max out my full 4th cast seeker and call it quits to be honest.

tehpeach · March 2017

I had my veno as HA for quite some time. Freaked people out though. I made her aps with just enough magic to wield a wand to heal pet and work forx form stuff. People took issue with her fists though. They didn't like it when I stole their agro and kept it. It got to the point where they wouldn't invite me unless I was already in squad with my hubbys cleric. Most players can't handle you if you don't fit into their box of "Normal". Frickin haters.

athrinbal · March 2017

Depends on what you mean by "work"
Would offshoot builds work for PVE? The answer is yes, HA venos been soloing TT for ages
Would an offshoot HA veno build work for PVP? 100% no
It wouldn't matter how much coin you put into a character, teamwork is always key. You can dump an infinite amount of coin and time into a character, but when it comes down to it, is that really going to matter when you're out of your cooldowns and get paralyzed while a group DDs on you?

celtthunder · March 2017

No.

glay4fun · March 2017

athrinbal wrote: »

Depends on what you mean by "work"
Would offshoot builds work for PVE? The answer is yes, HA venos been soloing TT for ages
Would an offshoot HA veno build work for PVP? 100% no
It wouldn't matter how much coin you put into a character, teamwork is always key. You can dump an infinite amount of coin and time into a character, but when it comes down to it, is that really going to matter when you're out of your cooldowns and get paralyzed while a group DDs on you?

I agree with what athrinbal said about it all being about teamwork. But i disagree about it not working 100% in pvp. If for a veno HA works in PVE, it would help even more in PVP. As veno you dont need to DD that hard when theres 20 DD next to you. Your pet will deal alot of dmg. In my opinion a venos job is to purge/heal pet/amp and ofc SURVIVE. it doent matter if you hit really hard but die right after purge. With HA you could purge and manage to escape thus more time alive = more pet dmg. The extra battle time and pet attacks could make up for the lost int.

torquoisegamer · March 2017

Yes, certain, very specific, offshoot builds work. No mage should ever go LA, since it doesn't give much more physical defense than AA (my mains are duskblade and psychic - my duskblade doesn't have much more phys def, and both are in full nirvy s3 gear). For the incredibly slight increase in phys def, you get reduced mag def and drastically reduced mag attk.

The only offshoot builds that work for mages involve equipping a veno with HA, since fox form skills are based on your physical attack (and can miss, too!). STR build venos with HA work if they plan on using their fox form skills a lot (Leech is a nice skill for keeping your HP up in this case). Hybrid build venos which use both HA and AA also work, and are essentially jack-of-all-trades with their fox form/stand up skills. Hybrid venos will have stronger fox form skills than MAG build, and stronger stand up skills than STR build, yet weaker stand up skills than MAG build and weaker fox form skills than STR build. Venomancer is unique among the mages in that some of their skills are phys attk based. No other mage is like this (plume shot, razor feathers, etc. are mag attk. based and never miss).

I don't think any offshoot builds work for classically LA chars, since their skill damage is dex-based, and crit aids you should you go APS (thus eliminating HA APS build as a reasonable possibility for sins).

As for the classically HA chars, offshoot builds do work. They classically have high vit, but you can successfully make them STR based instead of VIT based fairly readily. And BMs with their high-dex and high-APS claws and fists can become DEX based APS build fairly readily.

torquoisegamer · March 2017

tehpeach wrote: »

I made her aps with just enough magic to wield a wand to heal pet and work forx form stuff.

Just want to point out that MAG does not aid your fox form skills, since fox form skills are based on your phys attk and can thus miss. Yes, this is unique among mages, having phys attk-based attacks. However, it makes sense when you consider that fox form skills are melee. As for APS build on veno, refer to my previous post. If you want APS, go with BM or sin.

kalystconquerer#0876 · March 2017

The first portion of maintenance is done - will be moving into the second phase shortly!

I've mentioned it in the past, but I'm very, very partial to HA Veno! I've seen competitive ones during my TW days, but she switched from HA to AA after a while. Kind of a shame, but its interesting to see odd builds every once in a while. I was always super skeptical of HA Clerics, but when you meet the really good stand out players it's kind of hard to hold onto that skepticism.

I still have a half finished HA Veno laying around...should get around to leveling her again!

torquoisegamer · March 2017

kalystconquerer#0876 wrote: »

The first portion of maintenance is done - will be moving into the second phase shortly!

I've mentioned it in the past, but I'm very, very partial to HA Veno! I've seen competitive ones during my TW days, but she switched from HA to AA after a while. Kind of a shame, but its interesting to see odd builds every once in a while. I was always super skeptical of HA Clerics, but when you meet the really good stand out players it's kind of hard to hold onto that skepticism.

I still have a half finished HA Veno laying around...should get around to leveling her again!

I have a hybrid veno in the works. Non-RA I'm going pure mag, and 1st RA I'll go hybrid. Then 2nd RA I'll go with whichever build works better from my experience.

chary · March 2017

The reduce phys damage r8rr armor build for venos is pretty lulzy.

jamesmcd · March 2017

I have a g16 +10 psy and a g16/la morai 95 psy. My experience is that where the g16 takes 2 hits to kill a mob, the morai one will take 4, where the mob will do almost no damage on the g16, the morai psy will have noticable hp loss. So expanding on that, and considering the g16 has an appreciable advantage anyway, the LA psy would need to be rrr9 LA (which is not possible) to beat the g16 in purely PVE matters.

When it comes to PVP, a well equipped RRR9 will one hit my g16+10 (sometimes hitting 30K on my 10K hp psy) so a LA psy will not fare any better in PVP no matter what equipment they have.

silvasunrise · March 2017

Unfortunately, unless PW China decides to release versions of r9 that allow for alternate builds, an alternate build can never fully compete as an endgame character (which is a shame). With the way things are right now, you are already behind doing an alternate build simply because you're an entire grade of gear lower in all but name. That puts off many experimental types from taking the plunge and really dedicating to such a character. (Some do have a joke character that would never work at all though, like my fist Psychic, which was fun for a little while at low levels.)

It's fun, it's different, but sadly the endgame does not fully allow you this flexibility. It's interesting that you brought this up. I imagine it's not the first time introducing, say, the ability to get r9 in heavy armor mode for venomancers, or other similar variations that are designed and balanced to the class, has been suggested. However, this kind of thing might change class advantages and give certain classes a leg up, and I imagine it'd create "too much" variety to maintain any realistic balance.

It is definitely viewed by many as a loss that these builds were once considered so viable several years ago, and thanks to the big OP gears of the current generation these builds have fallen to the wayside. It's as though PWI character building has become a very vanilla-flavoured, cookie-cutter experience. The only viable build variation that still exists really seems to be attack rate gears for sins, and even that seems to be being developed away from thanks to bosses with anti-APS buff and so on.

catgirldesu · March 2017

Offshoot builds can work well in PvE so long as they are built properly to excel at what the build is made for. I can't say the same for PvP, however. Builds are dictated by the class R9 gear, with the only variations seen in support classes like Venomancers, Clerics etc. that have a little more freedom since they aren't required to be damage dealers.

Should we ever get G17 armor (not counting capes and rings), I think we will see a return of HA Venomancers and perhaps a few other things. Assuming it doesn't take 10 years to farm and it isn't class-locked.

valdisman · March 2017

My wife is hybrid HA archer (G16 - Awakened - Jades). At the start she was vit stones HA aps and eventually went to G16 the more she got into PvP. She got a lot of abusive messages and denied into some big factions because of it with people saying she would have no damage, wouldn't be tanky enough, but her build works pretty damn well in PvPs. She still does get some trolls pms over her build from other archers but she can survive in situations they can't.

She has a lot of videos on youtube (Eri Maziikeen - channel name).

I suppose in a certain aspect, any build works depending on your play style.

keihan007#7641 · March 2017

valdisman wrote: »

My wife is hybrid HA archer (G16 - Awakened - Jades). At the start she was vit stones HA aps and eventually went to G16 the more she got into PvP. She got a lot of abusive messages and denied into some big factions because of it with people saying she would have no damage, wouldn't be tanky enough, but her build works pretty damn well in PvPs. She still does get some trolls pms over her build from other archers but she can survive in situations they can't.

She has a lot of videos on youtube (Eri Maziikeen - channel name).

I suppose in a certain aspect, any build works depending on your play style.

Eh, abusive messages arent cool but saying like that build is at all effective is silly. If I had secondary HA set, I would have to drop 147 dex, which would be 7% crit and 12.5% dmg per hit. When archers struggle killing anything remotely geared as it is, nerfing your own damage is reducing yourself into purge bot and thats all you will be.

Now had she spent that HA gear money into her R9 set, she would be roughly my gear level, likely higher. But as it stands, she is 10kish hp behind me in LA gear, assuming the latest video is at all up to date on gear. Not to mention I have all that extra dex she doesnt so I also hit significantly harder. I would have to do math but considering I have 8k hp over her in her HA set, I am pretty convinced she isnt significantly tankier than me, despite being jades compared to my placeholders.

The build is interesting but there is a reason nobody else has gone for it. If you could use multiple builds, which could be swapped in combat, these secondary gear sets might work. But as it stands, you just lose too many stat points going for off meta builds.

xwhitefrostx · March 2017

<- Maziikeen the HA build archer

I do understand that people find it weird and dont get that I like HA build archer.
The thing is that if I wanna be pure dex archer then I just need to buy point reset stone, i already got rrr9 diety, crown of madness and wings of ascension, I have put my points into dex before to try out pure but I simply dont like it, so for me, I enjoy playing the way I do.
And my biggest question is why would everyone else care, why is it such a big problem for some ppl that I wanna play it my way, the way I enjoy, not the way everyone else enjoy. For years I've gotten abuse cause of my build and all those years I still didnt wanna be a pure archer, so ppl need to understand that it's my choice and there is nothing ppl can do to change it

As I already said, I can buy point reset stone and I'll be pure, but I obviously dont want that.

I dont like that people get mad at me over it, as they got nothing to do with it and they dont know me, so why care. But ppl are free to pm me and ask me why I wanted to go HA, I like talking with ppl and I dont mind it, what I do mind is people being total **** for no reason, they end up on my BL forever

Anyone that is nice to me, I'll be nice back to.
So Sami, u might not understand my choice and that is okay, I dont expect anyone to do, but now uk that I simply just enjoy it. And I am not pointing the **** part on u lol, I am saying in general how many ppl act, I personally dont know u, and havent really ever talked with u (in case u think I aimed it at u).

And last, I am very friendly and dont like drama, so anyone are free to pm me for a chat, ik so many ask me about my build, come be friendly to me and I'll be friendly to u

keihan007#7641 · March 2017

xwhitefrostx wrote: »

So Sami, u might not understand my choice and that is okay, I dont expect anyone to do, but now uk that I simply just enjoy it.

Thats what matters most in game, you do things you enjoy. I am personally the exact opposite, I hate swapping gear a lot, which is why its taken me this long to get R8r bow.

I did not mean to attack you, I simply like talking bout different things regarding this game and I do disagree on merits of HA build. But if and when you enjoy it, good for you, it really is your business what gear you wear.

xwhitefrostx · March 2017

Yeah I always been swapping as I 5 aps claws too, have like 3 different gear sets, and also got the r8r bow, for me it's what I've done for years, so kinda stuck to it. I also have barb and seek that i use my g16 josd, this way I dont really have to gear any of my ha classes, I just get warsoul wep if I wanna get better wep for em.

And yes a lot of ppl disagree on it and thats fine, I would never tell another archer to go for it, ppl have asked me and I just say that pure dex n LA is probs best, but it's really up to what u feel like, so I decided on my ha build but I have never told other archers to do it, It works out well for me, I'm used to it, but others probs not so much lol

heerohex#3018 · March 2017

@xwhitefrostx I agree with different builds. I was once a la wiz.

The force of R9 gears is the main problem. If that was not in place it would not be so scrutinised.

I have always said you should be able to choose. Different play styles are important. I'm a defensive person so you can guess the rest. My point of play you can't attack if ur dead...

xwhitefrostx · March 2017

Yeah I't fun to see different builds, and as long as it's working for people and they enjoy it then that's what matters

ofc there will always be someone that gonna be **** about it, doesnt matter what u say, but those just end up on my block list. But yes I love my ha build, it have saved me a lot, as in full def i got 132 def lvls to survive and those times i feel like playing with switching between ha josd and my rrr9 diety then in my diety i get 220 attack lvls, missing some. It's fun like this. But yes whenever I wanna play a str build class i just jump on barb or seeker, so it's nice to already have the gear for my ha built toons on the same account ^^

torquoisegamer · March 2017

LA does not work for mages. If you're gonna do that, go two sets of armor: HA and AA. DEX does next to nothing for a mage, and should be avoided.

eirghan · April 2017

I would say yes, in this meta there is possibility (meaning the g17 emerging meta) there is so much progression lately that even NV3 can be viable in pvp. They will have to be incredibly heavy handed with the credit card however to make up for the loss of r9 gear. And the majority, in my opinion, would be HA support classes.

One i have been toying with is an HA duskblade cc machine support build, not built for damage but for sustain like a BM.

I miss my ha veno and i am forever sad that it was cheaper for me to become pvp viable with rank 9 than the heavy handed credit card route. If i was not restrained 100% i would make pwis first nuema portal serenity stone HA veno and it would be GLORIOUS

perrion · April 2017

It's a real shame that PWI pigeonholed all the classes to specific armor types with the OPness of R9+ gear. I used to play a HA archer until R9 came along. Any defensive edge that HA provided was matched or exceeded by the set bonuses of R9 making the build pointless.

I miss the olden days when gear wasn't so homogenized. There were always optimal choices, but you weren't punished for using a few alternate pieces. The set bonuses for end game gear really kill any choice. No alternate gear is worth breaking the set over.

torquoisegamer · April 2017

The interesting thing is that with the next expansion, offshoot builds will become more viable in PvP, because your gear will matter less than how well you're able to use your skills. Glyphs will be an equalizer, giving less benefit to R9 players than nirvy/lunar S3 players.

spartanschild#9765 · April 2017

I believe there is a pretty successful full Vit R9 veno running around here on Tideswell. Don't remember her name though I would think that would be the safest offfmeta build for venos but what do I know...

wettstyle · April 2017

Seems to me, arguements are strictly pushing there agendas at being viable to Again matter in PVP.. pushing Your a Non factor.. on any builds that are not Mainstream aka PVP op or gtfo.. seems these peeps dont care about average or the type that dont follow the wolf... again and again. This narrows and chokes off a huge chunk of players that may still exist... or did and no longer feel wanted in this game.. sad

torquoisegamer · April 2017

spartanschild#9765 wrote: »

I believe there is a pretty successful full Vit R9 veno running around here on Tideswell. Don't remember her name though I would think that would be the safest offfmeta build for venos but what do I know...

You could also p easily go STR build, since STR helps with your fox form skills.

Scheduled Server Maintenance [3/28/2017 - 11 PM PST]

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