APS in next expansion.

Instances weren't meant to be solo'd.


/drops the mic

Ok let me clarify some things because I see a lot of sarcastic people here droping mics and even praying to the lord on behalf of the apparent stupidity of people who do not think like them....

First than all: people should understand that even if they do revamps on those caves, no matter what those revamps are, there will be a lot of OP people still able to solo the caves, no matter what. But here is the thing, those caves were not designed for r9 or g16 nirvy+10 people.
Those caves are obsolete instances created to farm gear for people wearing even more obsolete gear.

I have plenty of character, 2 of them are close to end game.

Lets say they revamp those caves. Do you guys really think that my +12 r9 archer with more than 2000 spirit would suffer in there if I wanted to farm ?
Or my full r9 sin with +12 r9s4 dags and more than 1800 spirt, that can spark kill a lot of those things? yeah sure is going to be 2 sparks instead of one maybe.....

The people that would have problem there would be the ones that actually are meant to be doing those caves, whatever they are squads of low gear people farming their stuff or even some people that solo the place to get some extra coin during the 2x events, whatever they are aps or g15/g16 nirvana low refined. It almost look to me that for some people on this forum, farming or soloing an instance is now a crime if you are not end game.

You guys seem to forget that not everyone is r9+10 or higher, not everyone is r9 melee classes with highly refined zerk weapons.

Lets take Illusion Lord armagedon as an example: Any OP rich herp derp sin, whatever it is aps or not can solo it easy, same with Duskblades, heck any class strong enough can solo it.

But put a squad of lets say tt90s there, and lets see how easy he is. Sure it is an obsolete boss that drops obsolete mats to make obsolete gear (Forgive the redundancy )
But that obsolete boss can hit squishy people for 20k damage one shoting even your average g16 or low refined r9.
So he es not easy for the people that should be farming him, he can even be a challenge for not bad geared people, if they don't glitch of course.

As I say on another post before: If they add extra modes or a few extra bosses for the OP people, that is totally cool.
Even if they do minor adjustment to make it a bit more of a challenge it for the people that should be doing it, again no problem.
But if they are going to turn those a caves into a r9 maxed only clown fiesta, well that would not be good at all.

Just some thoughts:

While is true that caves are not meant to be soloed and that sometimes doing redesign on those places can even be something good. I really don't see as something so terrible that people that is not rich can farm those places. As I said before the people who is really OP will do those caves no matter what adjustment they do to the place, unless there is no gain.

However instances that are supposed to be for farming gear that is nowadays below the average should not be turned in to something that only rich end games players can farm, that only further increases the gear gap between the veteran players and the new ones, making the game even less attractive than what it is now for the new players.

I honestly don't even think anti aps is the problem. They may not even do anything to those instances. Still, lets not forget Abaddon and SOT long time ago, while now even an aps char can solo puppeteer, I still remember the rage that those bosses brought to some people, I even remember a mix of g16 and r9 squad being wiped by the boss, or people waiting an hour for an end game barb to finish his tw to go help them with hellfire later in order to help some person wearing g15 that was dead 90% of the time by the mobs and bosses AOE.

I also remember worldchatting like crazy to make a squad because I nor most of the server couldn't solo stuff aps or not still can't find a valid reason for this

Since when do "new players/low levels/under 100s" even have aps or need to farm something like arma? sins or not? 99% sure the only ones complaining about the aps nerf are the 2-shot sins that cant survive if they arent on spark every 5 seconds.

Just cos bosses might become anti aps that doesnt mean they become 5x harder or deal 5x more damage.

reading all these comments all i can say is:
aps is awsum! and DPH is awsum! just know how to farm in all enviornment!
but i have to say, i use to play ma r9s3 aps sin n farm fast,but since i made ma DB r9 i farm faster "i do time testing".
ma DB wep is just +10 and has more thn ma sin +12 wep which is wow even wen ma sin wears full r9s3!
but if aps gone only change i c in farming is farmed goods goo up,and the class that would have the adv is DB/SB caz debuff and DD dmg of great length(example ma DB hit 3mil in tt3-3 after debuff combo+reflect) But yeah if no aps gone and upgraded on instances should be more fun!

eeepsilon wrote: »

....Lets take Illusion Lord armagedon as an example: Any OP rich herp derp sin, whatever it is aps or not can solo it easy, same with Duskblades, heck any class strong enough can solo it.

But put a squad of lets say tt90s there, and lets see how easy he is.

PLEASE show me a screenshot or vid of someone aps farming him with tt90 gear... PLEASE PLEASE!

I feel like this is the second thread I've seen about this. I'll check this though to confirm, but it's been pretty hectic, so I haven't got around to actually reading rumor threads like this in it's entirety until recently. Regardless, having a pre built APS sin for testing is never a bad idea to have on hand...

Also, as a side note, if you are having a concern about someone's account, please bring these up with Customer Support in a ticket. I am not Customer Support, so tagging me to look into anyone's personal accounts will usually get you routed to them to handle.

Alright that took a while but I checked TT 3-3 and no boss in there that I fought had any anti APS buff. I could check 3-2 and 3-1 if people are concerned, but rest assured, there is no anti APS in TT 3-3. If they don't change the top difficulty, I would have a hard time believing that they would skip those in favor of other lower difficulties or only specific bosses without prior notification.

I'm honestly not sure where this rumor even came from, but I'm assuming its because it was a misreading of a few announcements made in the CN version. Hopefully when the time comes and more expansion information gets revealed, this will help clear any misconceptions people were having!

johndoe069 wrote: »

eeepsilon wrote: »

No offense but is not even funny to argue with someone who have no understanding of basic English, Or that tries to take a sentence out of context in order to troll.

Did ya bother reading the thread topic? When u mention TT90 squads, its clearly meant to be aps or moot. In other news, you pick the hardest boss in the entire TT instance to try and make your point which has gone off topic. "lets see how easy he is"... he isnt supposed to be easy. I dont need to troll.. youre doing a good job of trolling yourself.

Bbye now

Well, I guess is really pointless to keep arguing about it, I mean no matter what I say, you will always have some strange answer that have no sense at all, this will be my final reply on this thread, mainly because as you say I am starting to derail this by arguing with someone, also GM already said that they may look in to it, so is kind of irrelevant what we think about it.

Still as a final reply I will answer your post, not to troll you (or me as you said) but as an honest answer of what I was talking about, although I think it was very clear to understand, that aside of you or any other person disagreeing with my opinion, Which you guys are totally free to do so since every one is free to have their own opinions.

Still as a final answer here we go:


So about your first question:

johndoe069 wrote: »

Did ya bother reading the thread topic?

Yes I did read the thread topic, the first person or Original Poster (OP) was a person asking about anti aps on certain bosses on the next big update, on his first post it was not an opinion about aps being good or not, but just a simple question.

About your statement that I am guessing it could be a an answer to same question you did:

johndoe069 wrote: »

When u mention TT90 squads, its clearly meant to be aps or moot.

Sorry but why would a squads of tt90 have to be aps?, Still I don't get from where did you get that idea. Old school squads that used to run those caves were not aps, heck Tideborns did not even exist at some point on this game.
A traditional squad long time ago was something like: cleric, barb, wizard, archer, veno, blade.

Sure, later they created more classes on the game like sins, psys, seekers, mystics, and not long ago dusks and storms. Of course those classes could also run those caves at the level range that I said before. But that does not mean that they have to wear aps.
As I say before, for some reason you took a sentence that I wrote and you put it out of context.
I guess that the only thing that could be take out of context and misunderstood was the second line that you quoted before:

eeepsilon wrote: »

But put a squad of lets say tt90s there, and lets see how easy he is.

And again, I was clearly talking about a traditional squad, and I was trying to say that for that kind of squad (traditional NON aps) said boss is a challenge, which is good.
I guess my only mistake there was to not say it in a very explicit way. All I can say is that when I post a comment in a forum, I expect that certain things that are pretty much of common sense, can be understand by almost anyone who reads here.

johndoe069 wrote: »

In other news, you pick the hardest boss in the entire TT instance to try and make your point which has gone off topic. "lets see how easy he is"... he isnt supposed to be easy. I dont need to troll.. youre doing a good job of trolling yourself.

Of course he is not supposed to be easy, I mean that is why I say it on that way, that is the funny part of this whole thing. You say that I am trolling myself, but you are auto trolling yourself this time.

What I was trying to say there was that for that traditional squad, said boss is not easy, therefore you are agreeing with me, at this point I have no idea what are you trying to prove in that statement.

The whole point of what I said on all those post before was that outdated instances should not be ravamped according to new gear, Because how do you farm gear of that level if you need gear you don't have to do it.

As I say before, I will not keep replying to this thread anymore, because it is being derailed by our pointless argument.

Here is a person post that have a clear understanding about the Issue:

sontzu wrote: »

Maybe not, but if instances aren't modified to keep up with power creep, what do you think is gonna happen?

Then ofc if you do that, new players won't be able to even survive in there and will have to get op folks to solo all their stuff, which we already have to some degree anyway.

The only way they can mitigate is to add new content that op folks can't solo, or make it so you need a squad to perform separate tasks, like EU, UP etc

blazerboy wrote: »

I'm more in favor of making all instances harder do you have any idea how many ppl freak out in JFSP/FSJ if they don't have a sin to glitch final boss? Lmfao

Do not need to make it harder. They need to fix the glitch.