Guild Sizes

sasquatch87
sasquatch87 Posts: 51 Arc User
in Suggestion Box
First off I don't want this to come off as a QQ post and really think this could be an interesting discussion and something most people would all agree with. With xtw becoming in my opinion more popular (which is a good thing) it's kind of creating something I like to call Mega factions, where through merges guild sizes are maxing out it's 200 active people for the covated #1 rank and prizes. This would be a good thing but it does have a downside, it's pretty much making normal tw obsolete and making no shows more common in xtw. So I purpose a simple and interesting solution to this problem, cut faction size from 200 to 60 ish or less, so what do you all think? What do you think would happen if they decided to clean the server of all factions and start fresh?

Comments

  • capnk
    capnk Posts: 486 Arc User
    200 is pretty huge, even for the 80 man TW days. 100 would probably be alright for the way things are now.
  • dingo488
    dingo488 Posts: 936 Arc User
    I think TW is obsolete for other reasons.
    It's poorly balanced, it's not rewarding and its way too one-dimensional.
    xTW is just the evolved version... there's multiple win-conditions, turtling from minute 1 isnt a viable strategy and there's unique and useful rewards.
    To me it only makes sense for competitive people to focus on the more developed version, just standing across from each other and bashing ur faces into each other for 100 minutes just isnt a good form of competition. Find any competitive game right now that involves this low levels of strategy, competitive people are just more attracted to strategic diversity.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXi45uIrOt0

    IGN: Madskillz
  • blazerboy
    blazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    I would prefer 100
    105/105/105 Seeking ScallyMode
    http://mypers.pw/5/#258958
  • capnk
    capnk Posts: 486 Arc User
    Eh, I wouldn't call xtw evolved over TW, it's pretty much the same thing.

    TW: Kill towers, kill crystal.
    xTW: Kill towers, kill dragon.

    Just a bigger map and defenders don't autowin draws. Plus you can't control who you attack and can't see who other people are attacking, so you get even more no-shows than regular TW.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    This content has been removed.
  • angellicdeity
    angellicdeity Posts: 641 Arc User
    I'm heavily against this change. Smaller guild sizes only serve to be incredibly selective about the classes you admit into the guild. Right now they are incredibly skewed towards some really over-powered classes that completely change the game - Storm Bringers, Duskblades, Assassins. Right now I think it is balanced very well. 200 is a good number - because large scale PvP is 80v80 and 60v60.

    Reducing the numbers heavily favors guilds with certain class compositions. 200 is big enough to be able to negate the over-powered-ness of a single class by allowing PvP with larger numbers. At the same time 200 is small enough to ensure that one guild can't defend every single piece of land if attacked.

  • angellicdeity
    angellicdeity Posts: 641 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    capnk wrote: »
    Eh, I wouldn't call xtw evolved over TW, it's pretty much the same thing.

    TW: Kill towers, kill crystal.
    xTW: Kill towers, kill dragon.

    Just a bigger map and defenders don't autowin draws. Plus you can't control who you attack and can't see who other people are attacking, so you get even more no-shows than regular TW.

    I don't know what faction you're in but this doesn't read like you actually are in a winning faction for XTW. XTW has incredible depth to it in comparison to TW. Both are a castle siege style game - however the level of coordination and strategy for XTW is much higher than TW.

    It is very easy to win against a better geared faction in XTW by executing strategies better. The way you win XTW is Map Control which requires you to do much more than win PK battles. It requires movement, pincers, ninja-capping, etc - All of which turn the tide of battle. Having a squad take a side-lane to pincer a head-on attack from behind is amazingly effective. Imagine having your Nuema Portal players tearing through all the squishies while the front-line heavies run around not knowing what to do. Another one is having your G16 players ninja-cap the teleport point that the opposing faction needs to keep a strong push.

    TW has very little depth. You have 3 lanes, and the strategy is all about rebalancing your forces amongst all 3. Aside from that execution is PK - you don't even need to control the situation, you just need to be able to bulldoze or turtle. I liken TW to 3 games of tug-of-war. Your defense squads gets treated like trash (when they're actually the most important squads in game) because very rarely do they turn the tide of battles. There is no depth to the strategy, it all comes down to gear and squad-class composition.



    XTW has better payout and rewards than TW, and rightly so because it takes much more to be successful at XTW than TW. I'd say members of the top 5 XTW guilds understand the depth and nuances such that they wouldn't make a statement like yours. If you don't understand the depth needed to win XTW you will never be in a WInning guild.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    This content has been removed.
  • shade13
    shade13 Posts: 633 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    sasquatch87 wrote: »
    So I purpose a simple and interesting solution to this problem, cut faction size from 200 to 60 ish or less, so what do you all think? What do you think would happen if they decided to clean the server of all factions and start fresh?
    Big number of players in faction is supposed to provide reserves for events in case regular players can't attend and cover the faction needs in case of multiple battles. Very few players can attend every tw/xtw/tourney and such without skipping. That means if faction has 60 ppl, the average attendance of events also cuts to 30-40. You can say "recruit only those who can be there each time", but it's impossible.
    Thus, if you finally pick 60 suitable ppl for a faction (add some favoritism to this process which will surely damage either faction power or relations between people) and your opponent will pick 60, you may easily gain 20 sign ups for a fight while your enemy gains 50. Or vice versa. Because people resources are limited and you can't back up yourself with numbers any more.
    Will it be more fair? Maybe for a week or two, but then comes another wave of crying about injustice.    ​​
    Sg4FlzA.png
  • capnk
    capnk Posts: 486 Arc User
    angellicdeity wrote: »
    It is very easy to win against a better geared faction in XTW by executing strategies better. The way you win XTW is Map Control which requires you to do much more than win PK battles. It requires movement, pincers, ninja-capping, etc - All of which turn the tide of battle. Having a squad take a side-lane to pincer a head-on attack from behind is amazingly effective. Imagine having your Nuema Portal players tearing through all the squishies while the front-line heavies run around not knowing what to do. Another one is having your G16 players ninja-cap the teleport point that the opposing faction needs to keep a strong push.

    All of that happens in TW also, at least with factions that win. I don't know what faction you're in, but it doesn't read like you have any experience with TW. Like those Hoorah guys who managed to lose multiple TW seasons against Vindicate despite outgearing them heavily.
  • dingo488
    dingo488 Posts: 936 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    angellicdeity wrote: »
    I don't know what faction you're in but this doesn't read like you actually are in a winning faction for XTW.

    He's in Vindicate, you know, the only top tier faction that still hasnt finished in the top 3. They're also the only faction I think we've ever beaten in xTW despite being down over 200 kills on them, they really have this strategy thing down, so he's probably right.

    Post edited by dingo488 on
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXi45uIrOt0

    IGN: Madskillz
  • scruncy
    scruncy Posts: 458 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    The number of guild members is ok.
    As I wrote in another thread, what we need is a faction player gap cap system.
    What I mean with this is like the player amount gap between 2 factions in tw/xtw cant be bigger then for example 10.
    This would have many advantages. Atm ,1-2 big factions ruling the maps just due to the numbers they can bring into tw/xtw.
    With this gap even smaller factions would have a chance, a-to defend a attack of this big faction, b-be able to attack a big faction with a chance of winning.
    On the other hand, there might be players which are always on waitlist in those big factions, which will look then to join a smaller faction, rather then always be on waitlist.
    This gap cap would level out the field and would bring way more fun then the current system.

    I can give you a example, my faction was matched with crisis once and we had a very nice and fun xtw the first 30min when player numbers were around 30v30. After this 30min the other crisis battle ended and within 3min the numbers had been 30v60. I told my faction then to leave the battlefield, since fight became pointless and fun was gone.
  • dregenfox
    dregenfox Posts: 713 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    aradya6793 wrote: »
    on Da there is a faction that literaly has 90% of endgame playerbase of the entire server egg-2.gif
    that would deftly damage them egg-2.gif​​

    It's not really Crisis' fault, more a fault of our rival faction simply having bad leadership and bad environments that caused players to leave. Someone literally offered them $5 in coins to leave and they were all like, "hell yeah, bye guys". (Not even joking)

  • sasquatch87
    sasquatch87 Posts: 51 Arc User
    scruncy wrote: »
    The number of guild members is ok.
    As I wrote in another thread, what we need is a faction player gap cap system.
    What I mean with this is like the player amount gap between 2 factions in tw/xtw cant be bigger then for example 10.
    This would have many advantages. Atm ,1-2 big factions ruling the maps just due to the numbers they can bring into tw/xtw.
    With this gap even smaller factions would have a chance, a-to defend a attack of this big faction, b-be able to attack a big faction with a chance of winning.
    On the other hand, there might be players which are always on waitlist in those big factions, which will look then to join a smaller faction, rather then always be on waitlist.
    This gap cap would level out the field and would bring way more fun then the current system.

    I can give you a example, my faction was matched with crisis once and we had a very nice and fun xtw the first 30min when player numbers were around 30v30. After this 30min the other crisis battle ended and within 3min the numbers had been 30v60. I told my faction then to leave the battlefield, since fight became pointless and fun was gone.

    I actually like this idea better then mine, we had the same with crisis before but it was 20 v 20, but that would kind of cause problems with the larger guild if they only have 1 active fight but....in away it would add to the strategy part like dingo mentioned.

  • chipboy
    chipboy Posts: 56 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    I think the 200 member limit is fine, in my own opinion I wish it could be bigger even because sometimes you may find you run into space issues. Thing is when you have a faction with 90-100 signups you aren't going to want to be able to put just 20 to 30 into a fight, for TW that became an issue, at one point, Tempest had 120 signups a week, but it dropped off because you can only fit 80 people inside. I like how in SVS you can usually fit everyone into a PVP fight unless you get an unlucky matchup and get PVE fights. I understand some might not like bigger factions to have so many people because they become a powerhouse but if they enjoy the community why not? It's a game and you are supposed to enjoy it and have fun.
  • shade13
    shade13 Posts: 633 Arc User
    Actually, it could have been fun, but if it was designed from the very beginning. Forced small guild's size has pros and cons. But after so much time people got used to the set up we have now. Changing it would cause some issues in community. Nothing to serious, probably, but I doubt such change will ever be implemented.
    Sg4FlzA.png
  • kalystconquerer#0876
    kalystconquerer#0876 Posts: 1,421 Perfect World Employee
    edited January 2017
    I wonder if the devs have ever thought of considering an increased guild cap. If we ever do another Ask the Devs sort of thread, would this be a question players would want to be asked?

    EDIT : Ahh I see, asking to decrease the faction sizing as opposed to making it bigger. In either case, we could still ask the devs whether they will ever modify the current existing guild sizes, either making it bigger or making it smaller.
    Post edited by kalystconquerer#0876 on
  • cheats69
    cheats69 Posts: 86 Arc User
    no. Increasing the guild cap would just make the imbalance on servers even worse in terms server-wide events (not-cross server). The migration of the strongest people to 1 guild is sort-of inhibited by having a guild capped out at 200 although it does happen.

    Please don't do that.
  • scruncy
    scruncy Posts: 458 Arc User
    we are talking about a decrease not increase....
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    This content has been removed.
  • dregenfox
    dregenfox Posts: 713 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    aradya6793 wrote: »
    dregenfox wrote: »
    aradya6793 wrote: »
    on Da there is a faction that literaly has 90% of endgame playerbase of the entire server egg-2.gif
    that would deftly damage them egg-2.gif

    It's not really Crisis' fault, more a fault of our rival faction simply having bad leadership and bad environments that caused players to leave. Someone literally offered them $5 in coins to leave and they were all like, "hell yeah, bye guys". (Not even joking)

    too bad that players from crisis got offered the same and they joined aswell, but them having a massive playerbase they aren't really affected by that, lesser factions got demolished instead...
    and as for 5$ u mean +12 josd getting offered 20 apti or NP players getting offered full +3 shards yea man 5$
    kalystconquerer#0876 wrote: »
    I wonder if the devs have ever thought of considering an increased guild cap. If we ever do another Ask the Devs sort of thread, would this be a question players would want to be asked?

    EDIT : Ahh I see, asking to decrease the faction sizing as opposed to making it bigger. In either case, we could still ask the devs whether they will ever modify the current existing guild sizes, either making it bigger or making it smaller.

    well faction cap is 200, if you consider you atm see 400 players attending nation wars, just saying that the whole half of them could be coming from 1 single faction egg-10.gif​​

    Yeah I don't know how to break this to you but ummmmmmm....




    There's a chance you're not gonna get full +3 serenity set for joining.








    It's possible he may be bluffing.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    This content has been removed.
  • dregenfox
    dregenfox Posts: 713 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    aradya6793 wrote: »
    dregenfox wrote: »
    aradya6793 wrote: »
    dregenfox wrote: »
    aradya6793 wrote: »
    on Da there is a faction that literaly has 90% of endgame playerbase of the entire server egg-2.gif
    that would deftly damage them egg-2.gif

    It's not really Crisis' fault, more a fault of our rival faction simply having bad leadership and bad environments that caused players to leave. Someone literally offered them $5 in coins to leave and they were all like, "hell yeah, bye guys". (Not even joking)

    too bad that players from crisis got offered the same and they joined aswell, but them having a massive playerbase they aren't really affected by that, lesser factions got demolished instead...
    and as for 5$ u mean +12 josd getting offered 20 apti or NP players getting offered full +3 shards yea man 5$
    kalystconquerer#0876 wrote: »
    I wonder if the devs have ever thought of considering an increased guild cap. If we ever do another Ask the Devs sort of thread, would this be a question players would want to be asked?

    EDIT : Ahh I see, asking to decrease the faction sizing as opposed to making it bigger. In either case, we could still ask the devs whether they will ever modify the current existing guild sizes, either making it bigger or making it smaller.

    well faction cap is 200, if you consider you atm see 400 players attending nation wars, just saying that the whole half of them could be coming from 1 single faction egg-10.gif

    Yeah I don't know how to break this to you but ummmmmmm....




    There's a chance you're not gonna get full +3 serenity set for joining.








    It's possible he may be bluffing.

    he has 3 toons full +3 sharded.
    like 10 toons full r9 he has both sage AND demon veno on endgame​​

    Why would you list his gears? Nearly all of them are still worthless in pvp. He's not going to spend $6000 to gear up two NP players.
  • chipboy
    chipboy Posts: 56 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    I don't think its possible to decrease the faction size because there are quite a few with over 100 people easily. I think you will find if you do this there will be a lot more of the elitist attitude and trashtalk occurring and making it a place that isn't as community friendly. The biggest thing that would encourage TW is a revamp of the instance and make it so there is a score like xTW that can be a deciding factor whether it based on kills or something else because 2 factions can EASILY turtle each other and makes factions not as inclined to attack each other because winning TW season gives decent rewards.

Categories