Fix fourth cast Armors or refund the players stuck with them

nunuator · December 2016

After speaking with support and getting a complete denial of a refund for my r9r4 aka boundless rank 9 gears. I am taking my concern to the forums.
-Boundless rank 9 weapons are an improvement for most classes but, appears to nerf a puri proc on AA classes
Now where my concern kicks in...
-boundless Armors (which requires a ton of mats valued near 2bill for all Armors) these are a complete and utter waste of time... You sacrifice nearly all your kill power + atk/def lvl (4k patk/matk +5 attack and defense levels) but, gain a useless 2k more mdef/pdef.
I of course was eager and upgraded everything the soon as it was released and saw a forge labeled concretion forge,assuming this was a revert option, I of course hurried and maxed out on boundless rank 9 Armors and weapon.
Yesterday after dealing with support and wasting near 30mill worth of mats on this concretion forge... I achieved a freaking cosmetic change.
Now what I want back is my r9r3 Armors not weapon and I am being completely denied this option after being robbed of it for being "too late"

I know one of my buds is having this same issue and have not heard if he has had any luck.

A pissed nerfed boundless rank 9 seeker, Prespire from twilight temple

shopcheese · December 2016

Reverting back to r9.3 from r9.4 was a limited offer due to the fact that AA classes had no chance of knowing that their purify spell would be nerfed. Other classes could had taken advantage of this too, I saw some duskblades do it... but...

orinj wrote: »

5. We can't do this forever, so we'll keep this service available until the end of September.

Yes, you were too late

samasalao · December 2016

What are you talking about the fourth cast is better for PVP... China said it so it must be true! cause they know their game so much!, they are not idiots who don't even know their own game! Those guys are smart!

It's not an inferior product.
It's not a waste of billions of money.
The R9 arcane proc is actually better than the American.
This was definitely not false advertisement on PWI part!

To be honest trolling aside I am sorry for your lost, hope PWI management can you get fixed back but seriously doubt it.

There are better games out there give it a try to [REDACTED] or [REDACTED] you will not be disappointed. This game is full of ****.

Notes : Edited for mentioning titles not related to PWE.

shopcheese · December 2016

Well.. lets try anyway...
@kalystconquerer#0876 i summon you! Help this poor guy! Without you, he might not ever be able to go r9.3 again!

dregenfox · December 2016

nunuator wrote: »

After speaking with support and getting a complete denial of a refund for my r9r4 aka boundless rank 9 gears. I am taking my concern to the forums.
-Boundless rank 9 weapons are an improvement for most classes but, appears to nerf a puri proc on AA classes
Now where my concern kicks in...
-boundless Armors (which requires a ton of mats valued near 2bill for all Armors) these are a complete and utter waste of time... You sacrifice nearly all your kill power + atk/def lvl (4k patk/matk +5 attack and defense levels) but, gain a useless 2k more mdef/pdef.
I of course was eager and upgraded everything the soon as it was released and saw a forge labeled concretion forge,assuming this was a revert option, I of course hurried and maxed out on boundless rank 9 Armors and weapon.
Yesterday after dealing with support and wasting near 30mill worth of mats on this concretion forge... I achieved a freaking cosmetic change.
Now what I want back is my r9r3 Armors not weapon and I am being completely denied this option after being robbed of it for being "too late"

I know one of my buds is having this same issue and have not heard if he has had any luck.

A pissed nerfed boundless rank 9 seeker, Prespire from twilight temple

There was never an option to revert R9s4 armors to R9s3. Only the weapon was ever revert-able.

Also giving up 4k base mag attack for 2k p. def is actually a very nice trade for AA classes...

I think you definitely should get a chance to revert the weapon, but I don't think any of the armors were misleading because you had a chance to compare all stats and set bonuses beforehand...the pwi sales page also mentioned that the armors were a side-grade. Anything else can be taken as sales "puffery". Did you really expect pwi to say, "this new armor is only a side-grade, don't buy it"?

capnk · December 2016

lol don't help this guy, we told him not to get the armor and he still did it, insisting it was better. Fools and their money are soon parted.

eirghan · December 2016

You were happy about your r94 since you bought it maybe 3 or 4 months ago. What changed?

You want to roll an r94 db? Werent you world chatting today about int on the pants?

Are you wanting a refund because the gear was unclearly advertised or? There was never any revertable gear advertised.

Ps sorry for being blunt but it bothers me when people take these things out of context. The ONE weapon had a proc that was not clearly advertised. Thats different from the gear and i dont like to see people trying to take that thread for a ride for unrelated reimbursement because pwi is going to regret giving us any help in the future if we abuse them.

mymbarb · December 2016

I have to agree with the statements against a refund/downgrade.

First off, it was never stated to be far superior to r9s3, that is what china said since they don't have our version of r9s3.
PWE said that CN r9s4 is a side-grade, not that it is ultimately better.

Second point is that it is your own fault for rushing/overhyping/whatever the gear, just because "it is new".

The gears stats were plainly visible at the forges before making it and for the set bonus, there is a site called pwdatabase that gives you that info plus refine values even.

Don't blame PWE this time for your impatience/lack of information you could have easily gathered and compared.

PS: I agree with the reversion of the purify weapons since those proc rates are nowhere to be found officially and it was not even known before that our r9s3 had a way better than intended proc rate for it.

Personally I went with the r9s4 saber for my DB and don't regret getting it, since GoF chance is the same and the range loss isn't even that noticable since g17 also won't have that, so getting used to it already helps more in the end. The armors though are not worth it for any class, in some cases (like full support characters or full tank barbs) getting the ring + belt upgraded for additional defense while keeping 4 parts of r9s3 makes actual sense.

dblazen1 · December 2016

Alright mandatory comment time:
>R9 fourth cast / R9r4 / R9s4
EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
It is china's R9 third cast. Nothing more, nothing less.
Our version of R9r3/s3 was not supposed to exist and solely exists because PWE wanted it. Which was one of the biggest mistakes they could've made.

Then ultimately, you get to pay the stupid price, literally, for something that is worse in general. If you did any research or even just looked up the stats, you would've known better.

so once again, i will forever deny the existence of r9r4. It does not exist. It is china's r9r3 and it's a sidegrade to ours.

blazerboy · December 2016

Get over yourself so instead of doing ANY research which takes what 3-5min depending how slow your browser is and look up what the gain and loss is. Or here's a thought ask worldchat. Worse case Scenario is ask your guild but no you chose to instantly get someone you have no idea what it is. People made the same mistake with boundless weapon and PWI were VERY generous to return old weapons a for a limited time. Now you're asking for an entire armor set way after? Yea go remake your char and learn to do research next time you do a instant uninformed purchase it's called being an adult

P.S get the duskblade boundless is just as bad loss of 2.0 range is trash xD even though g17 loses it but the trade off is a rediculous upgrade in atk unlike boundless which is marginal xD

kalystconquerer#0876 · December 2016

We have never offered an option to revert back to the US version of Rank 9 Armor under the criteria referenced.

The reason why there was a window of time for the AA weapons was due to the the fact that the proc chance was being billed as the same for US and CN, but was clearly not showing this in testing. I was one of the testers for this and recorded supplemental evidence alongside what players were submitting. Fun fact - this took me 2-3 days of hard testing/recording and a sit down meeting with orinj.

There were, to my understanding, threads in the past asking for CN Rank 9 to come our version and the subsequent armor stats have been published/discussed by players and the data was in pwdatabase when the content was released. The implementation of the gears and upgrades in the forges are like this by CN's design.

Also, to show a bit more context of the quote earlier -

1. Go in-game and take a screenshot of your weapon tool tip.
2. Send in a CS ticket and have the image attached.
3. State in the ticket that you are requesting to have your item converted back to the US version.
4. I have already instructed the CS group to oblige your requests, so you will not receive any push back.
5. We can't do this forever, so we'll keep this service available until the end of September.
6. The weapon restoration can only take place during maintenance periods, so bear with us if the process is slow.

The whole process was regarding weapons solely.

shopcheese · December 2016

It was for weapon due to purify proc, yet non-purify proc classes could exchange their weapon too. I dont think it would have been an issue to exchange armor too back then, but nobody needed that service anyway as it was very clear the armor was more an downgrade than upgrade, so nobody (almost >.>) did it, and thats why the talk were going specific for weapons.
However, I still think there should be an option to go back without the help from GMs. Just let them exchange their r9.4 for the basic r9, no refines fund or anything, and they still have to farm their way back up to our r9.3. Hopefully they learnt their lesson then.

kalystconquerer#0876 · December 2016

@shopcheese I didn't want to bring that up specifically, but a forge rework would be nice. Unfortunately since it is an "exchange" it will not give you whatever stats you had rerolled previously, but that would be how the chips fall. Resetting them back down to base Rank 9 would be extreme, but I unfortunately could see CN implementing it that way. I wish the forges had instead created a "split path" from Rank 9 second cast - being that you could go US OR CN, but that is just my musings.

This forge rework would have to unfortunately be a long term project, and one I'd not want to set in motion, if that is something players would be interested in, until at least after this expansion so we don't suddenly have any surprises in the gear department. And even more so, I have no gauge on weather they would even entertain this idea.

I think at that point, we were ok with people reverting weapons if they were truly not happy with them even if they weren't AA.

shopcheese · December 2016

I think the reason why china didnt do it as a split path, is because they wanted current r9.3 US people to become their version of r9.3, so they just made their r9.3 into r9.4 for us. I remember being very nervous for upgrading to our r9.3 version back in the days, because I knew china had a different version that required r9.2, but as everybody else I did not know about their purify spell.
The Concretion Forge (one of the NW forges) is really weird tho. You can exchange r9.4 for... r9.4, but with basic r9 skin.. Should just change that to be one of our r9 versions instead.
It's just.. this guy is at a point where he will never be able to get r9.3 armor again without any ingame changes or help from GM. You could say he might as well start over with a new character, and I think thats more extreme than loosing some money on armor for taking a stupid decision ingame.

capnk · December 2016

It was the previous devs that screwed up on the rank 9 upgrades. Our second recast was actually created first, China only had the first recast at the time. Then when they decided to make a second recast for China, instead of copying ours they made a totally different one. Then the new dev team came along and is trying to get every version with the same gear, but it's a mess.

beast21g · December 2016

4th recast will have a big advantage on the next expansion, cause skills will use the soulforce to be more effective against opponents. Soulforce will be like spirit/def/atck lvls and other stuff

bself23 · December 2016

really dont need anymore power additives. Spirit is bad enough. If someone has enough spirit, in g15 gear can about one shot r9 with no spirit whatsoever. Gear means nothing in terms of pvp anymore imo. Either you have spirit to fight with, or you dont.
Not much middle ground anymore.

jabq · December 2016

capnk wrote: »

It was the previous devs that screwed up on the rank 9 upgrades. Our second recast was actually created first, China only had the first recast at the time. Then when they decided to make a second recast for China, instead of copying ours they made a totally different one. Then the new dev team came along and is trying to get every version with the same gear, but it's a mess.

Capn, let them all come out with r10, and everyone will be back on the same page

eirghan · December 2016

@beast21g thats interesting do you have a formula by chance of how it will factor in to current damage

beast21g · December 2016

eirghan wrote: »

@beast21g thats interesting do you have a formula by chance of how it will factor in to current damage

yes
for example i have less soulforce that you

As example Soul of vengeance will not work most of the times on you. But if i have more then the buff will work always

same for other buffs/debufs

jsxshadow · December 2016

Well..some people use mypers...some still dont. any question about gears and stats can easily be anwsered by just using mypers..create your char there and compare it to your char with the changes you wanna do. Heck you can even damage test there (even tho its a bit unrelyable) and as of yet it is always upto-date.

Anyone bragging about how much better something is dispite getting told that its not the case has 0 rights to complain about it afterwards. Some just learn the hard way. Just my opinion

heerohex#3018 · December 2016

jabq wrote: »

capnk wrote: »

It was the previous devs that screwed up on the rank 9 upgrades. Our second recast was actually created first, China only had the first recast at the time. Then when they decided to make a second recast for China, instead of copying ours they made a totally different one. Then the new dev team came along and is trying to get every version with the same gear, but it's a mess.

Capn, let them all come out with r10, and everyone will be back on the same page

mooglemonger · December 2016

Yea lol look at the set bonuses. It is clear that fourth cast was not superior. I honestly thought it was a joke. A mean costly troll xD

angellicdeity · December 2016

It was advertised as superior for PvP. That was blatantly false advertising. R9R4 is inferior to R9R3 for PvP.

Unknown · December 2016

This content has been removed.

sirkura#6424 · December 2016

jabq wrote: »

capnk wrote: »

It was the previous devs that screwed up on the rank 9 upgrades. Our second recast was actually created first, China only had the first recast at the time. Then when they decided to make a second recast for China, instead of copying ours they made a totally different one. Then the new dev team came along and is trying to get every version with the same gear, but it's a mess.

Capn, let them all come out with r10, and everyone will be back on the same page

Honestly its more a matter of when, not if, in this case. with all the g17 gears being released, i'm quite sure armor will be coming soon. The question is will it be its own gear set or an upgrade from r9? The later makes since if CN wants to make all versions more similar, which would most likely mean it will be an upgrade from CN's r9, forcing us to upgrade in the end. Just speculation me and some friends have talked about.

eirghan · December 2016

I agree with @sirkura#6424 sad conclusion for me because unless something drastic is done to make the upgrade 12x more affordable than it is now, or let us keep our shards, likely the end for me xD

@beast21g thats interesting but that already is the case with many "effect" pvp skills. Will this mean all skills with effect will go this route? Will it affect the damage calculations at all or only change the percent chance to hit?

If it makes all skills percent chance i understand the rune options better now.

heerohex#3018 · December 2016

I would like to think R10 would be it's own gear.

May be tho R9 will destroy help with R10 mats that way you could keep it if you wanted. Loosing all gems n refines are going to be standard.

beast21g · December 2016

eirghan wrote: »

I agree with @sirkura#6424 sad conclusion for me because unless something drastic is done to make the upgrade 12x more affordable than it is now, or let us keep our shards, likely the end for me xD

@beast21g thats interesting but that already is the case with many "effect" pvp skills. Will this mean all skills with effect will go this route? Will it affect the damage calculations at all or only change the percent chance to hit?

If it makes all skills percent chance i understand the rune options better now.

only the chance rate

nunuator · December 2016

Legit made this as a troll post I understand completely that there is no refund but, of course I can always troll

mooglemonger · December 2016

Nice save..

Fix fourth cast Armors or refund the players stuck with them

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