Final Nail in the Archer Coffin

dejiavu
dejiavu Posts: 103 Arc User
Well the new passive skill lessening the damage to critical hits is the final nail in the archers coffin. We are now totally and throughly USELESS. We are the worst DD class with the worst skills and only one totally useless buff. We are contantly ignored when responding to be added to a squad after all we dont add anything usefull. No way am I playing another class as this cash cow of a game. It's time to find a different game.
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Comments

  • weapon762
    weapon762 GodOfMurderers Posts: 187 Arc User
    There is never an instance in which u don't want a purge sniper around in mass pk , + having decrease hp debuff along with increase damage on bv, your living in the good old days back when archers had nothing but relevance times change but you on have that, hell I remmeber back then they said seeker couldn't do jack squat , heck they generally still say classes needed in pvp will never be asked seeker we are bottom tieright slightly above psy (which I cannot fathom since seeker main weakness is freaking silence) but, it's about building your toon to react to your environment and not play the way your expected too , I enjoy proving others wrong about the capabilites of my favorite class

    + archer will have zerk soon don't u wanna stick around for that ?.

    Side note.
    I do think archer should get 1 more guaranteed stun though, and I'm siding with you guys on that and that's coming from a class that has garbage cc and cqc that I think u guys could use another one.
    Vae Victis.
  • asterelle
    asterelle 🦝🧁🐍🎀🔥🤹🥶🌟🌸🧢🏹 Posts: 861 Arc User
    The Primal passives are pretty egregious in design and are almost all anti archer.

    Crit % passive - give everyone free crit, decrease the relative advantage of naturally crit heavy classes, archer / sin / db
    Skill damage passive - Archer is still only class that actively uses normal attacks due to needing normal arrows to trigger spirit blackhole and poor skill damage, receives least benefit from this
    Defense passive - unpurgeable defense is a nerf to purge, hits archer / veno
    HP passive - Unpurgeable buff that nerfs relative effect of HP debuffs like blood vow and sharptooth, also nerfs relative effectiveness of HP buffs so it hits archer / barb
    Charm cooldown passive - Decreases relative importance of charm debuffs from archer / psy
    Crit damage nerf passive - effects crit classes with no ability to increase rage damage most, hits db / archer
    Def level passive - Actually has no relative effect if everyone gets it except for buffing seeker quid pro quo combo

    So in 7 out of 8 of the passives archer was literally either the hardest nerfed or one of the hardest nerfed.
    ​​
  • jsxshadow
    jsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    Well...did you guys read the patch notes (I know Aster did but not sure about the rest)...

    Everyone constantly QQs about archer..but now we got something no other class has (at least no physical): AOE-Knockback every 6 seconds. Do you have any idea what kind of survivability boost that is vs melee? Knockback is always at least 1 sec of CC as well...remember that. Feather Armageddon is friggin Huge!!!

    The very very needed changes to the archers Ulti is also remarkable..as that levitates the ulti above most other classes now, in terms of offensive damage its gotta be the 2nd best to storms ulti, depending on the situation ofc. 20 sec +3000 penetration, 10 sec immunity to movement debuffs and a choice between demon quickshot for 10 seconds and a 3 sec stun is also absolutely awesome.

    I can just say that archer got up some ranks in terms of 1v1 now and knowing that most dont care about 1v1 I can tell you this: Esp with the Stealth being instant now..combined with the other fixes..archer now have a way higher chance to purge/kill people due to massively increases survi and thus making them stronger in any regard and situation (esp mass-pvp).

    At the comment that Archer selfbuffs are useless I can just burst out in laughter. Why do people with no PvP experience come crying on the forums? Blazing Arrow is one of the strongest selfbuffs in the game? Why? cause it lets physical attacks tick both types of def charms with a single hit (Also why its dangerous in mass to have a barb on you as well).

    I am very happy about the recent update. Archers Damage is also good enough depending on your gear ofc. If you wanna kill endgame people with a g16 archer...well...forget it. Equal geared archer can 2 shot most Arcane classes after a purge...but ya, sooo weak.
  • booker27
    booker27 Posts: 167 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    I think archers need some better upgrades but i never understood archers that complain about 1v1 they should roll a 1v1 oriented class if thats what they are interested in playing
  • jsxshadow
    jsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    The only things I'd like to see for archer is revamping the completrly useless skill winged shell, reducing the chi cost of whisper shot and aim low to max 50 chi and ofc increase the success rate of stunning arrow and aim low to 100% (from 90%). Those things combined with the current skill update and the class is perfect.
  • asterelle
    asterelle 🦝🧁🐍🎀🔥🤹🥶🌟🌸🧢🏹 Posts: 861 Arc User
    In addition to those this is my personal wishlist, mostly quality-of-life fixes:

    Being able to refresh Blazing Arrow: Currently you have to wait for blazing arrow to expire or for you to be purged to be able to refresh it. I don't know of any other self buff in the game that forces you to wait for it to expire. This is annoying.

    Being able to refresh the thunder shock metal debuff: Most resistance debuffs like phys break you can refresh but you can't refresh the metal debuff. It makes it harder to judge when your metal skills will benefit

    Bloodvow getting its own amp icon: Blood vow amp is currently shared with much more powerful skills from BM and now the mirrored version from DB. Because of this it is rarely used in squad situations and archer has nothing to offer most pve squads in debuffs. Meanwhile venos can amp without worry, clerics can throw down mark of weakness without causing problems, seekers have their own important debuffs. Blood vow is a lvl 100 skill on a long cooldown, it deserves its own amp icon so that archers can properly amp in pve / pvp without **** over BMs.

    Speed buff from wings of protection getting its own icon: It currently shares the long lasting speed with powerful short-timed speed buffs like holy path or purify spell. Because of this it is frequently discarded and rarely do people receive benefit from it for long. Other long lasting speed buffs like the veno summer sprint don't have this problem.

    Evasion buff swapped out for something that works: Evasion doesn't work at all against half the classes and the other half of classes now have a slew of 100% hit skills that totally ignore. PWI devs originally believed evasion was a viable defensive option and made things like tt99 evasion ornaments but they changed their mind at some point. Since then they have created different forms of evasion like focus mind and tidal protection that work against all foes but archers are still stuck with the 2008 version of evasion. This evasion has almost no effect or effective survivability and no one ever asks an archer to buff them. I think it should be replaced with something around the level of a 15% focus mind. Something which benefits survivability roughly inline with other classes.

    Knockback arrow enabled for pvp: There are a ton more anti stuns and immunities in the game since this skill was created. Stun arrow and Aim low are likely to totally backfire by procing purify spell so it would be nice to have a different option.

    Barrage of Arrows getting its own target: Barrage is the only continuous zhen in the game that drops when the target dies. In large PVP you often lose two sparks while only getting 0 - 1 waves out of it. Meanwhile SB can unleash an Avatar of Storm or Churning Vortex which persist no matter what and they don't even have to stand their channeling it. I'd like to see Barrage create a target at the barrage target location that becomes the target of the skill. You still have to stand still channeling the barrage and the barrage location will no longer follow players but the barrage will stay up and be more reliable. This enables archers to make more strategic decisions about what locations they want to lock down and would make barrages harder to ignore for the other team.
    ​​
  • iliad#1359
    iliad#1359 Posts: 37 Arc User
    I am glad to see archer get a few increases. People arent wrong about the passives hitting archers hard, but I think if g17 works out like we HOPE it will, archers will be in a very good place.​​
  • jsxshadow
    jsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    If they would go along with my suggestions + the suggestions from @asterelle then I fear archer would be too strong. Sure the changes in the buffs would be nice to have and dif icons/overlapping debuffs would also be awesome (even tho in terms of the metal debuff it isnt as bad cause the 80% debuff is the strongest in the game and other classes like demon clers and seeker cant overwrite it. Useful cause we have loads of classes with metal damage but meh).

    Giving archer the long needed knockback is already beyond awesome...if the terrain is even slightly uneven you can airlock people with it easily and due to the low Cooldown you can use loads of fun stuff with it...like aim low > knockback = airlock, then another knockback combined with whirlwind, then stunning arrow, another knockback <3 If you throw in occult ice and/or ulti lightning strike you can use aim low again xD **** epic. Ofc the enemy can counter with genie..but it opens massive CC-lock options for archer if done right.

    I believe...now with an str genie and fighting buffed on equal terms...I think archer can even beat duskblades in a 1v1 (selfbuffed would be dumb tho). Not every fight. but the chance is there. Especially the ulti gives way to fast kills.
  • dejiavu
    dejiavu Posts: 103 Arc User
    Why cant archers retain their damage up close? After all every other class fights close and forget the leap right/left. Use it and in 2 seconds they are right up in your face. Meanwhile I cant leap anywhere with a 35 second cooldown. The last expansion was not good for archers either. In fact I cannot think of or remember a single thing PWI has done to help this class. I figure they hate us and dont want this class in the game. I am an end game totally useless toon. And I have no desire to put any more money into her nor any desire for anything connected to Homesteds.
  • dejiavu
    dejiavu Posts: 103 Arc User
    ps. giving archers knock back? Heck I've had that for 5 yrs--dont even use it--doesnt knock anything back far enough!
  • mordikaikane
    mordikaikane Posts: 7 Arc User
    I wanted to try making an archer, but with the way people are talking about it, I don't know if I should bother. Is it still worth it to just play as an off-character?
  • dblazen1
    dblazen1 Sh*tposting at the speed of light.Posts: 1,177 Arc User
    >There are people who think knockback working on players will actually save the class entirely
    Lol.​​
    Jws3dXe.gif
    The only fitting image for this forum.

  • jsxshadow
    jsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    @dejavu no. You class is fine. You are just bad and trust me. if you had any other class you might be able to land some cheap kills but definitly not because ur a good player.

    I hate it when people talk a class down cause they are ultra-clueless and no, I am not being mean. I know that kind of player. QQ I cant just roflown anything anymore...damn my class is soo bad. GG WP.
  • notanyfox#3644
    notanyfox#3644 Posts: 190 Arc User
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    @dejavu no. You class is fine. You are just bad and trust me. if you had any other class you might be able to land some cheap kills but definitly not because ur a good player.

    I hate it when people talk a class down cause they are ultra-clueless and no, I am not being mean. I know that kind of player. QQ I cant just roflown anything anymore...damn my class is soo bad. GG WP.

    Like when you land cheap kills on your duskblade it's because your class is good definitly not because you're a good player.

    Your air lock glitch combo just shows how clueless and inexperienced you are at playing an archer. It will never work against a good player.
    Stupidity at its finest :
    "Deity sin vs Josd Dusk -> Dusk wins.
    Josd sin vs deity dusk -> Sin wins by far."
    Special Kid Joe 2016
  • croseler
    croseler Posts: 18 Arc User
    Archers are amazing , We have the damage (Especially now with the new versions of thunder shock and lightning strike , also ultimate can deal tons of damage if used at the right times)
    An archer can't depend on his luck, only on his skill because one mistake and you'll get locked :)
    But it wouldn't be fun just clicking on few push to win buttons right? If to you it is then sure , reroll, archer isn't the class for you.
    BatYeena - Dawnglory 105/105/104 Archer
  • jsxshadow
    jsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    @dejavu no. You class is fine. You are just bad and trust me. if you had any other class you might be able to land some cheap kills but definitly not because ur a good player.

    I hate it when people talk a class down cause they are ultra-clueless and no, I am not being mean. I know that kind of player. QQ I cant just roflown anything anymore...damn my class is soo bad. GG WP.

    Like when you land cheap kills on your duskblade it's because your class is good definitly not because you're a good player.

    Your air lock glitch combo just shows how clueless and inexperienced you are at playing an archer. It will never work against a good player.

    Would you please consider stopping your brainless comments on any thread? Thank you.

    You have 0 actual experience and even your theory-power is very, very limited.

    Ofc the Airlock combo I stated is theoretical. Enemies genie will be ready after a while. Sure. But you can still perform at least a bit of a combo like that and so far it works like a friggin charm. The true OPness of that skill is that you now can easily bypass the Close-Range Damage reduction by pushing the enemy away and stunning/Freezing him afterwards. 6 Seconds CD, 25 chi gain (sage) and you got yourself one of the strongest skills in the entire game.

    BTW: Landing "cheap kills" on the same class or on people that Outgear you by far is never a cheap kill. It is fighting people that don't pay much attention or waiting for the right time to strike. The very basics of PvP. Not suprised that you cant understand that. If I had Rekkos or Fedes gear on my Dusk then yeah, anything I would do would be a cheap kill then. With the gear disadvantage of my dusk there is no such thing.

    Even good players can be tricked into wasting genie and leaving themselves wide open for an attack. The difference is that, when you fight ultra-tanky people you have to take risks to land a kill if you lack damage, as I do in most cases. That ofc leaves you wide-open for counter-attacks if your attempt fails. Waiting for the right moment to act is key. THE KEY! thats why I dont understand people endgame gearing a single toon. So pointless. When you dont have a gear disadvantage you dont have a challange at all. Boring. A little handicap is always neat :D Ofc, thats arguable in terms of an Archer but meh, now archer sure are epic.
  • notanyfox#3644
    notanyfox#3644 Posts: 190 Arc User
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    Even good players can be tricked into wasting genie and leaving themselves wide open for an attack. The difference is that, when you fight ultra-tanky people you have to take risks to land a kill if you lack damage, as I do in most cases. That ofc leaves you wide-open for counter-attacks if your attempt fails. Waiting for the right moment to act is key. THE KEY! thats why I dont understand people endgame gearing a single toon. So pointless. When you dont have a gear disadvantage you dont have a challange at all. Boring. A little handicap is always neat :D Ofc, thats arguable in terms of an Archer but meh, now archer sure are epic.

    Your words exactly :
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    ...like aim low > knockback = airlock, then another knockback combined with whirlwind, then stunning arrow, another knockback <3 If you throw in occult ice and/or ulti lightning strike you can use aim low again xD **** epic.

    You suggest using 2 knockbacks, in other words pushing the target away then walking closer to push it again and eventually walking closer again to get in its 10m for occult ice. All that will do is stall and let the target recover genie energy. You're not killing anyone if you spend half of the time walking.
    A smarter and more reliable air glitch combo would be to use stunning blast instead of occult ice and switch it in the chain with aim low... and you don't need to use whirlwind at all. I wouldn't even bother doing the 2nd knockback, I'd just keep DDing. While the target is frozen in the air it can't use class skills, there is no need to push it further.

    You don't understand why people gear up a single toon ? Well because not everyone cashshops or log 10 clients like you, forum clown. :) The time needed to gear (and by that i also mean getting spirit, bloods ...etc) a toon like your SB is already very time consuming and unhealthy. But every one should dedicate their life to be like Joe.
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    ...I think archer can even beat duskblades in a 1v1 (selfbuffed would be dumb tho).

    lol.
    Stupidity at its finest :
    "Deity sin vs Josd Dusk -> Dusk wins.
    Josd sin vs deity dusk -> Sin wins by far."
    Special Kid Joe 2016
  • jsxshadow
    jsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    Oh now you ride the jealous train. Well, 99% of what I have in this game are made without cashshopping and the 1% is mostly just gambling time with packs that, you guessed it, have been a total waste of money so far.

    The biggest chunk of time I use on my chars is the leveling in PV. That shet takes loads of time. 1h every day just for PV. 1h dailies + BH and maybe 1 or 2 FSP runs each 30 minutes and thats the max of what I do every day. 10h of work every day allows for ~3h of PWI chores aside of the regular daily chores. It's called dedication and yes, having multiple chars is always preferable to having just 1, esp when all your chars can beat the average "focused on one" player. Also, it broadens your horizon.

    Like I said. I played every class, I know every class which is why I can counter every class up to a certain point of possibility. U jealous bro? U mad bro?

    BTT: Sure you can use Stunning Blow as well, if you have enough room for it on your genie or the right affinity (depending on the built). Would I refer it over Occult? No, in no situation. However, on a pure survivability genie it is neat, if you have a 91+ LP genie that is. Otherwise there are more important skills to consider. HoS kinda became a must for non AA-Classes with that new update. Just saying. But yeah, basically Stunning Blow is nice for air-locking, too.

    Going by this, it is kinda what I was saying from the beginning. That massive butthurt-ness about having multiple chars kinda tells me that you never experienced PvP on all classes, unlike me. So why are you still crafting your theories like a mad man? Theoretical knowledge is good and cool, no prob with that...but people like you normally get wrecked hard when push comes to shove. Maybe you have potential and could be a decent enemy to fight with, after several dozens of fights and rethinking of your strategies and adjusting and all that jazz. But for now. Nope bro. Just nope.
  • notanyfox#3644
    notanyfox#3644 Posts: 190 Arc User
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    Oh now you ride the jealous train. Well, 99% of what I have in this game are made without cashshopping and the 1% is mostly just gambling time with packs that, you guessed it, have been a total waste of money so far.

    The biggest chunk of time I use on my chars is the leveling in PV. That shet takes loads of time. 1h every day just for PV. 1h dailies + BH and maybe 1 or 2 FSP runs each 30 minutes and thats the max of what I do every day. 10h of work every day allows for ~3h of PWI chores aside of the regular daily chores. It's called dedication and yes, having multiple chars is always preferable to having just 1, esp when all your chars can beat the average "focused on one" player. Also, it broadens your horizon.

    Like I said. I played every class, I know every class which is why I can counter every class up to a certain point of possibility. U jealous bro? U mad bro?

    BTT: Sure you can use Stunning Blow as well, if you have enough room for it on your genie or the right affinity (depending on the built). Would I refer it over Occult? No, in no situation. However, on a pure survivability genie it is neat, if you have a 91+ LP genie that is. Otherwise there are more important skills to consider. HoS kinda became a must for non AA-Classes with that new update. Just saying. But yeah, basically Stunning Blow is nice for air-locking, too.

    Going by this, it is kinda what I was saying from the beginning. That massive butthurt-ness about having multiple chars kinda tells me that you never experienced PvP on all classes, unlike me. So why are you still crafting your theories like a mad man? Theoretical knowledge is good and cool, no prob with that...but people like you normally get wrecked hard when push comes to shove. Maybe you have potential and could be a decent enemy to fight with, after several dozens of fights and rethinking of your strategies and adjusting and all that jazz. But for now. Nope bro. Just nope.

    Just because I don't have 12 chars of all classes on pwi doesn't mean I haven't experienced pvp on all classes.
    I'm not jealous of your characters because by using any of my few characters I can beat any of your many characters easily in 1on1.

    I know you log 10 clients to farm FSP (which may not be against the rules anymore but it has been before, just not enforced) and you would never have geared up so many toons without doing that. Not every player wants to do that. That's why the majority stick to one character. No one is jealous of you loging so many accounts especially when half your chars aren't even endgame and get killed easily :D

    "Stunning Blow" is a veno skill. I was talking about the genie skill Stunning blast. Learn to read kid. :p If you only want to air glitch, you shouldn't gamble 80 energy for a OI stun since freeze in air is as good. Non-AA classes shouldn't bother with HoS in mass just because of archer metal debuff, especially BM and sin.
    Stupidity at its finest :
    "Deity sin vs Josd Dusk -> Dusk wins.
    Josd sin vs deity dusk -> Sin wins by far."
    Special Kid Joe 2016
  • jsxshadow
    jsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    Oh now you ride the jealous train. Well, 99% of what I have in this game are made without cashshopping and the 1% is mostly just gambling time with packs that, you guessed it, have been a total waste of money so far.

    The biggest chunk of time I use on my chars is the leveling in PV. That shet takes loads of time. 1h every day just for PV. 1h dailies + BH and maybe 1 or 2 FSP runs each 30 minutes and thats the max of what I do every day. 10h of work every day allows for ~3h of PWI chores aside of the regular daily chores. It's called dedication and yes, having multiple chars is always preferable to having just 1, esp when all your chars can beat the average "focused on one" player. Also, it broadens your horizon.

    Like I said. I played every class, I know every class which is why I can counter every class up to a certain point of possibility. U jealous bro? U mad bro?

    BTT: Sure you can use Stunning Blow as well, if you have enough room for it on your genie or the right affinity (depending on the built). Would I refer it over Occult? No, in no situation. However, on a pure survivability genie it is neat, if you have a 91+ LP genie that is. Otherwise there are more important skills to consider. HoS kinda became a must for non AA-Classes with that new update. Just saying. But yeah, basically Stunning Blow is nice for air-locking, too.

    Going by this, it is kinda what I was saying from the beginning. That massive butthurt-ness about having multiple chars kinda tells me that you never experienced PvP on all classes, unlike me. So why are you still crafting your theories like a mad man? Theoretical knowledge is good and cool, no prob with that...but people like you normally get wrecked hard when push comes to shove. Maybe you have potential and could be a decent enemy to fight with, after several dozens of fights and rethinking of your strategies and adjusting and all that jazz. But for now. Nope bro. Just nope.

    Just because I don't have 12 chars of all classes on pwi doesn't mean I haven't experienced pvp on all classes.
    I'm not jealous of your characters because by using any of my few characters I can beat any of your many characters easily in 1on1.

    I know you log 10 clients to farm FSP (which may not be against the rules anymore but it has been before, just not enforced) and you would never have geared up so many toons without doing that. Not every player wants to do that. That's why the majority stick to one character. No one is jealous of you loging so many accounts especially when half your chars aren't even endgame and get killed easily :D

    "Stunning Blow" is a veno skill. I was talking about the genie skill Stunning blast. Learn to read kid. :p If you only want to air glitch, you shouldn't gamble 80 energy for a OI stun since freeze in air is as good. Non-AA classes shouldn't bother with HoS in mass just because of archer metal debuff, especially BM and sin.

    Well, I don't see how farming with 10 chars has anything to do with getting gears for the first, second, third and so on... char. The majority of my money and gears came from farming TT/Lunar for years on end. It's just more comfortable now.

    Besides, any char I have I leveled myself from 0 to max (cept the archer, level pack FTW). You know how much work it is to get 3x105 in. I did it on 6 chars now, a few others are once 105 as well.

    I made my chars for 1on1s only but that doesnt mean they are weak in mass-pvp. When I do mass I get mostly focused by 3+ people, even on my weakest char. People get out of their way to kill a supposedely weak nonfactor. Ya right. For sure. Mass-PvP is a joke and when I really decide on a rare occasion to go full buffs, mass-PvP genie-mode then I die really really hard. Doesnt stop people from just increasing the number of people to gank me with but well. IF someone cant beat me in a 1on1 they cant beat me. Mass is random Bullcrap.

    Besides, even tho my Storm isnt at the very top, she could still be considered somewhat endgame and can deal loads of damage and its definitly noticable when I'm on the field. Are people really complaining about my chars being so troublesome despite having such low gears? Logic much. Such WoW. What do you think would happen if my storm had full serenity stones, 2rb Nueama Portal and a max star chart? Cap pdef and mdef with just NW Wine buff in Reaper form, otherwise selfbuffed. GG WP and GL killing it. The reason why I stoped gearing my barb, Storm, Cleric, Mystic, Duskblade is because they are already strong enough. there is no reason to play them with better gears. That would take away even the slightest bit of challange that is left in this game. The archer is also nearly done with gears.

    Sorry if you think that I am like the others. I dont need to compensate the lack of skill with gears and I long since made piece with the fact that even if I would show up with a lvl 1, no skills learned BM I still would get focused just because its me. Better gears, constant use of psy buffs/full buffs would make my own death a rare occasion but why? Do I look like a spineless little coward like yourself? Nope.

    Try handle a situation without having the ultimate advantage and then you can come and talk as if you would be a decent player. Get Gud.

    All that is exactly why some classes are hated on. Only gear. You have ur undergeared archer and get oneshot left and right by anyone. WHY?!?! Because they mostly outgear you like crazy. This discourages people but keeps the game going by people spending tons of money to get stronger. It's still far from being fair or even so much as reliable info about how good or bad a class is.

    All in all Archer are pretty dang strong now. I soon upload the 1on1s I had vs a storm yesterday. No magic ornaments, BS genie with pretty much only AD used once every 5 minutes and I had no trouble winning whatsoever on pretty equal gears. vs a friggin Stormbringer. the OH SO OP Stormbringer class. Fought a mystic too, again same gears (and supposed to be one of the best mystics back in the day). No trouble.

    Can you imagine what archer can pull off vs arcane classes now when they even use magic ornaments for mdef and a specific genie? ROFL!!!
  • notanyfox#3644
    notanyfox#3644 Posts: 190 Arc User
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    Well, I don't see how farming with 10 chars has anything to do with getting gears for the first, second, third and so on... char. The majority of my money and gears came from farming TT/Lunar for years on end. It's just more comfortable now.

    Besides, any char I have I leveled myself from 0 to max (cept the archer, level pack FTW). You know how much work it is to get 3x105 in. I did it on 6 chars now, a few others are once 105 as well.

    So you admit logging 10 clients at once and that lvling all those chars take a lot of time.
    Not everyone is willing to spend that much time to lvl 6 characters because they have better things to do with their life. One character gives you access to all the game content. Having to do it all over again multiple times to experience the same game with other classes just isn't worth it for most people. I'm sad for your you that this game and your work is everything you have in your life. :/
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    I made my chars for 1on1s only but that doesnt mean they are weak in mass-pvp. When I do mass I get mostly focused by 3+ people, even on my weakest char. People get out of their way to kill a supposedely weak nonfactor. Ya right. For sure. Mass-PvP is a joke and when I really decide on a rare occasion to go full buffs, mass-PvP genie-mode then I die really really hard. Doesnt stop people from just increasing the number of people to gank me with but well. IF someone cant beat me in a 1on1 they cant beat me. Mass is random Bullcrap.

    Besides, even tho my Storm isnt at the very top, she could still be considered somewhat endgame and can deal loads of damage and its definitly noticable when I'm on the field. Are people really complaining about my chars being so troublesome despite having such low gears? Logic much. Such WoW. What do you think would happen if my storm had full serenity stones, 2rb Nueama Portal and a max star chart? Cap pdef and mdef with just NW Wine buff in Reaper form, otherwise selfbuffed. GG WP and GL killing it. The reason why I stoped gearing my barb, Storm, Cleric, Mystic, Duskblade is because they are already strong enough. there is no reason to play them with better gears. That would take away even the slightest bit of challange that is left in this game. The archer is also nearly done with gears.

    Sorry if you think that I am like the others. I dont need to compensate the lack of skill with gears and I long since made piece with the fact that even if I would show up with a lvl 1, no skills learned BM I still would get focused just because its me. Better gears, constant use of psy buffs/full buffs would make my own death a rare occasion but why? Do I look like a spineless little coward like yourself? Nope.

    In mass pvp people tend to target players that have the highest offensive power / survival ratio first . And by offensive power I mean both damage and status effect.
    Status effects are effective regardless of the gear. Every class has status effects. So very often the ones targeted first are those with the lowest survival.
    You get targeted first by 3 people because you either play a class with powerful status effect like SB or because you're very easy to kill on your weak alts (or because you frontline on a ranged class when you are not supposed to :D ).

    You don't improve your chars or use full buffs/psy buffs in mass because you know you will lose anyway. That gives you an excuse for when you lose. You purposly stay weaker and let your allies lose just to have excuses and not look so bad when you lose :D. And they pay you back by retreating and letting you die in xTW :#
    Stupidity at its finest :
    "Deity sin vs Josd Dusk -> Dusk wins.
    Josd sin vs deity dusk -> Sin wins by far."
    Special Kid Joe 2016
  • tidustheswordwarrior
    tidustheswordwarrior Posts: 50 Arc User
    It is official, the archer class is dead, and this is officially what it means to be OP. OP is where a class or set of classes has a few to ZERO weaknesses. So i think it's time to hang up the archer class since this recent update has rendered them useless in pvp less ya wanna use em for pve only.


  • croseler
    croseler Posts: 18 Arc User
    Are you for real, Am i the only one who thinks knockback for feather Armageddon is broken af against non ranged classes xD , If you use it well you can stun lock for a long time , our ult got much better now that we can choose which skill we want , as for passives , it came to make everyone more defensive , true , it hurts archers damage but it hurts current zerk high crit characters like dbs and sins more , it will hurt us as much when everyone has gof bows, but when gof bows are available for most of us, I don't think you'll be QQing for being nerfed..
    BatYeena - Dawnglory 105/105/104 Archer
  • tidustheswordwarrior
    tidustheswordwarrior Posts: 50 Arc User
    our ulti doesnt mean a hill of beans when the cd on it is 300secs which is EQUAL TO 5 MINS. archers are meant to deal quick, fast damage which means HIGH CRITS. the archer class isnt a dph class its a DPS class. So when pw takes that away that makes the class completely useless less you can crit off of metal skills which doesnt help/work much now due to the phys/mag defense passive. Pw has screwed this class over yet again and you call it a half victory cause we can knockback non ranged classes when we cant kill a DARN THING ANYMORE. i call that a losing effort which is still LOSING. So no need to justify something when its clear pw has officially killed one of the ten classes. The only use archers are now is in pve running instances, bhs, dailies and etc which will make players who's main toon is this very class to quit the game entirely and never come back. Get What im saying through your thick skulls.


  • jsxshadow
    jsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    No, learn to actually play your class decently. I had tons of 1v1s now and even fought max geared, full josd sins and managed to survive and nearly kill the sin. Why nearly? Cause of the gear difference I am able to survive using my skills decently but I lack the damage to kill a sin through tidal, genie, apo, deaden. It was very close tho. Very close while being outgeared vs the strongest class in this game and you are telling me archer are dead? Either you are dumb, ignorant or just a fool.

    I also fought the so OP Stormbringer class on equal gears and I habe won 90% of the fights EASILY with my archer and this was using a genie only with AD (since the genie is not to fight storms, its vs HA) and no magic ornaments..so I could've increased the gap even more. If you wanna watch the fights type in Joe PWI in youtube and look for it (also have a link in my signature). Also fought mystics (again no mag ornas, no specific genie) and a BM (no specific genie either) and won all but 1 of those fights as well. Mind you that it was equal in terms of gears.

    Tell me again how dead the archer class is mate. So dead. I can only rek most classes with it now. Yup, dead. Dead as sht.

    Archers potential is huge now. Grab the right genie and you have the chance to beat any class (altho duskblades are still very hard if you chose to fight selfbuffed, same as sins cause they CC you once when ur genie isnt ready and you are dead (fair much? gg)) so please stop that QQing. I showed you how it can be. If you cannot do the same then the problem obviously lays within yourself. Archer are fine.
  • dblazen1
    dblazen1 Sh*tposting at the speed of light.Posts: 1,177 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    No, learn to actually play your class decently. I had tons of 1v1s now and even fought max geared, full josd sins and managed to survive and nearly kill the sin. Why nearly? Cause of the gear difference I am able to survive using my skills decently but I lack the damage to kill a sin through tidal, genie, apo, deaden. It was very close tho. Very close while being outgeared vs the strongest class in this game and you are telling me archer are dead? Either you are dumb, ignorant or just a fool.

    I also fought the so OP Stormbringer class on equal gears and I habe won 90% of the fights EASILY with my archer and this was using a genie only with AD (since the genie is not to fight storms, its vs HA) and no magic ornaments..so I could've increased the gap even more. If you wanna watch the fights type in Joe PWI in youtube and look for it (also have a link in my signature). Also fought mystics (again no mag ornas, no specific genie) and a BM (no specific genie either) and won all but 1 of those fights as well. Mind you that it was equal in terms of gears.

    Tell me again how dead the archer class is mate. So dead. I can only rek most classes with it now. Yup, dead. Dead as sht.

    Archers potential is huge now. Grab the right genie and you have the chance to beat any class (altho duskblades are still very hard if you chose to fight selfbuffed, same as sins cause they CC you once when ur genie isnt ready and you are dead (fair much? gg)) so please stop that QQing. I showed you how it can be. If you cannot do the same then the problem obviously lays within yourself. Archer are fine.

    You're fighting incompetent idiots, that doesn't make you good nor does it make the class good.
    But ofcourse, you want to claim you know more about any class than anyone who actually dedicates themselves to playing and maxing a single class.
    Obviously you know more about archers than Asterelle.

    I could write a dozen theories about how to counter your stuff, but I simply don't feel like it because I don't and never will take this game seriously at all.

    Just to give an example, i've been against maxed geared archers with my sin, and he's not nearly anywhere near maxed out. I've managed to beat archers like that, simply because they can't handle the CC amount. And that's coming from me, a person who barely ever used apo because I couldn't be bothered using it, and I didn't use tidal all the time, I switched between focused and tidal.
    Some were close calls and ofcourse, I lost sometimes, but that's the be expected when there's a big gap in gear.
    But with that kind of gap, I should've lost way more than I did against archers.

    So to be very honest, it sounds like you're fighting against people who are horrible at their class.

    tiger-9.gif​​
    Jws3dXe.gif
    The only fitting image for this forum.

  • jsxshadow
    jsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    Vs sins...read what I said. Sins and duskblades are so strong vs most classes that fighting them on equal gears is kinda pointless. Not only for archer, for any class. However, if you have the damage to force a sin/db to actually defend themselves and can survive a stun even after your genie is in CD then you can also beat those classes. Anything else doesnt really matter. VS any other class you can be equally geared and have a great chance of winning. At least its not lower than the chance the other classes have. That is my point.

    Dusks and sins are broken. We all know that and you cant tell me that the gear difference matters if you didnt even have to go all out lol + I am unsure if you are talking about pre or postupdate. Heck even low sins with only 30k pattack can OS any selfbuffed archer. Cursed > Subsea +mire > random skills. get a zerkcrit in there and its gg. Sins are just stupid. No matter how good the gear is. If a sin actually has to stun, freeze +seal +occult ice + another stun to kill an enemy. Thats when its balanced. cause any other class needs to pull off that kind of CC to get anything killed. If archer could kill people within one stun duration then they would be ueberbroken. Sins can + tidal + deaden.
    Dont make this about sins please xD

    Also..I am not acting as if I am far better than most other archer..but why are they complaining so hard? I am not complaining about archer at all even tho missing stun/freeze can be annoying as hell. Some of the people I have fought so far are considered to be under the best of their class and I was holding back hardcore (mag ornas and a specific genie can nearly double my survivability if not more). Sorry, but considering all of that I only get the impression that the other QQing archer are simply too stubborn to adjust and take advantage of how archer are these days. Archer still are not the strongest class but we are nowhere near the bottom end anymore. No. Anyone that claims otherwise is just lying or incompetent. Sorry to say it like that but thats my impression.

    PS: I also fought a sin that even outgears me..I deal max 6k crits on that guy with a debuffed lightning strike (on selfbuffs) and I still managed to nearly win (yes I lost all fights but some went on for 10 minutes nearly). If you cant even tick a sins charm with alot of skills then there is literally no chance to win the fight unless you are being ultra lucky. What I wanna say is that if you only do fights like that, which you cannot win by default, then ofc you get discouraged. However, If my archer had the same gears (full deity instead of josd tho) then I would've won at least half if not all of those fights simple due to the fact that I would've dealt enouh damage. Overall I think the only problem archer have is damage. If you can force someone to use genie/apo even in tidal then you can beat them. If you cant even force them to use that outside of tidal..welp. Dont even bother. Same goes for vs any other class. Can you put preassure on the target then you can win if you do it right. Archer have alot of means to kite/stay alive..so a more offensive build would be fine.
  • notanyfox#3644
    notanyfox#3644 Posts: 190 Arc User
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    Vs sins...read what I said. Sins and duskblades are so strong vs most classes that fighting them on equal gears is kinda pointless. Not only for archer, for any class. However, if you have the damage to force a sin/db to actually defend themselves and can survive a stun even after your genie is in CD then you can also beat those classes. Anything else doesnt really matter. VS any other class you can be equally geared and have a great chance of winning. At least its not lower than the chance the other classes have. That is my point.

    Dusks and sins are broken. We all know that and you cant tell me that the gear difference matters if you didnt even have to go all out lol + I am unsure if you are talking about pre or postupdate. Heck even low sins with only 30k pattack can OS any selfbuffed archer. Cursed > Subsea +mire > random skills. get a zerkcrit in there and its gg. Sins are just stupid. No matter how good the gear is. If a sin actually has to stun, freeze +seal +occult ice + another stun to kill an enemy. Thats when its balanced. cause any other class needs to pull off that kind of CC to get anything killed. If archer could kill people within one stun duration then they would be ueberbroken. Sins can + tidal + deaden.
    Dont make this about sins please xD

    Also..I am not acting as if I am far better than most other archer..but why are they complaining so hard? I am not complaining about archer at all even tho missing stun/freeze can be annoying as hell. Some of the people I have fought so far are considered to be under the best of their class and I was holding back hardcore (mag ornas and a specific genie can nearly double my survivability if not more). Sorry, but considering all of that I only get the impression that the other QQing archer are simply too stubborn to adjust and take advantage of how archer are these days. Archer still are not the strongest class but we are nowhere near the bottom end anymore. No. Anyone that claims otherwise is just lying or incompetent. Sorry to say it like that but thats my impression.

    PS: I also fought a sin that even outgears me..I deal max 6k crits on that guy with a debuffed lightning strike (on selfbuffs) and I still managed to nearly win (yes I lost all fights but some went on for 10 minutes nearly). If you cant even tick a sins charm with alot of skills then there is literally no chance to win the fight unless you are being ultra lucky. What I wanna say is that if you only do fights like that, which you cannot win by default, then ofc you get discouraged. However, If my archer had the same gears (full deity instead of josd tho) then I would've won at least half if not all of those fights simple due to the fact that I would've dealt enouh damage. Overall I think the only problem archer have is damage. If you can force someone to use genie/apo even in tidal then you can beat them. If you cant even force them to use that outside of tidal..welp. Dont even bother. Same goes for vs any other class. Can you put preassure on the target then you can win if you do it right. Archer have alot of means to kite/stay alive..so a more offensive build would be fine.

    Cool story. You still haven't managed to beat anyone at least semi-competent on your archer.

    If archer isn't at the bottom, which class is at the bottom ? oh that's right : archer :)
    Stupidity at its finest :
    "Deity sin vs Josd Dusk -> Dusk wins.
    Josd sin vs deity dusk -> Sin wins by far."
    Special Kid Joe 2016
  • jsxshadow
    jsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    What monochromous thinking.

    If ya wanna hear my ranking then it goes as follows:

    Top: Barb, Assassin
    Second: BM, Duskblade, Cleric, Seeker
    Third: Stormbringer, Veno, Archer, Wizard
    Fourth: Psy, Mystic

    Mystic is by far the weakest class in the game atm. Not because I get destroyed on my mystic (cause I know you wanna say that ._.) but because mystics can be completely disarmed by using evil ward and nullify poison. Psys are just...punching bags in mass and "debuff & kill" in 1v1. No big deal on equal gears. Annoying due to their souls but not really effective.

    Remember, this is a ranking built on skilled and experienced players in terms of equal gears in 1v1. Also, classes that are named on the same stage don't neccessarily have to be able to beat one another, I ranked them for overall strength vs all classes.

    Barbs are on top because they can beat any other class on equal gears. There is no real weakness to the class cept for the fact that they have to rely on luck for their CC. Sins are up there for the same reason. They only ever have problems vs Barbs and BMs..but the sheer stupidity of their overpowered skills is just...I don't even...hence on top. Strip away tidal and normalize damage and they would end up between Third and Fourth.

    Hopefully I dont have to explain the other classes as well. Just saying this: The classes on Second and Third each have a decent set of skills to stay alive and some neat strategies to dish out damage or have huge damage spikes to begin with. The gap between second and third is larger than the gap between top and second.

    Those are the classes that are equal imho and have equal chances of winning and losing vs the ones of the same tier if played decently. Any differences in actual combat solely exist due to skill difference and are deceided by the individual players.

    If ya ask for my personal opinion I'd say that Archer are stronger than:

    -Mystics
    -Psys
    -Stormbringer
    -Wizards
    -Venos

    in direct combat (1v1). Versus the other classes archer still have to put in a little more effort.
  • notanyfox#3644
    notanyfox#3644 Posts: 190 Arc User
    @jsxshadow Your post just shows how inexperienced you are at playing some of those classes. Archers beat psys, venos, mystics in 1v1 ? :D

    I don't have time to explain why most of what you said is incorrect but something that caught my attention was :
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    Mystic is by far the weakest class in the game atm.

    I thought mystic was the "strongest class in the game" (your words less than a year ago). What happened in one year ? You can't say evil ward and nullify poison didn't exist at that time. You rolled one and got destroyed, it's as simple as that. :)
    Stupidity at its finest :
    "Deity sin vs Josd Dusk -> Dusk wins.
    Josd sin vs deity dusk -> Sin wins by far."
    Special Kid Joe 2016