So did anyone figure out how to beat a good db?

killeresras
killeresras Posts: 236 Arc User
edited August 2016 in General Discussion
So ive fought db lots of times and honestly idk how to get out of the lock as a caster lol. the lock doesnt give me time to cast any of my skills in between and its a constant lock. Whenever i break out of the lock with faith or something they just use stealth, umbral stalker, or their own faith/ad to start the lock right back up. How do you fight this? lol every skill they use is instant cast and immediatly stop you in your tracks no matter what you are doing. Are their any plans to nerf this class or what genie skill could help?
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Comments

  • blazerboy
    blazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    Literally knowing the time to use genie is paramount make a duskblade and become familiar with the skills on your free time helps same as facing any other class. Occult Ice is a great help to stop a db in its past truth be told
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  • dregen543210
    dregen543210 Posts: 110 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    blazerboy wrote: »
    Literally knowing the time to use genie is paramount make a duskblade and become familiar with the skills on your free time helps same as facing any other class. Occult Ice is a great help to stop a db in its past truth be told

    No.
    So ive fought db lots of times and honestly idk how to get out of the lock as a caster lol. the lock doesnt give me time to cast any of my skills in between and its a constant lock. Whenever i break out of the lock with faith or something they just use stealth, umbral stalker, or their own faith/ad to start the lock right back up. How do you fight this? lol every skill they use is instant cast and immediatly stop you in your tracks no matter what you are doing. Are their any plans to nerf this class or what genie skill could help?

    If the DB is smart and saves his genie then this is simply not a winnable matchup for most casters, period.

    Might be close if the caster gets full buffs so they don't just roll over and die.

    The best advice I could give you is to not waste your purify procs on kiting. DB can gap close way too easily for that, and DB cooldowns are shorter than your cooldowns, so running away doesn't do jack except give him another chance to repeat his stun combos. Use the short time you have on antistuns to try to CC-lock and kill the DB asap (And hope he doesn't just paralyze you anyway).

    If a DB asks for a 1v1, request a 2v2 instead, and focus the DB. They are weaker when they aren't free to use their skill chains over and over, and turn into more of a gimped sin without tidal. 2v2's are very winnable vs duskblades (unless, of course, the other side has 2 duskblades and they each take on one person :p).

    This video is a fight between a full endgame wizard, all +12 with CoM/WoA/full Orns/etchings (I think missing 4 jades or so). The duskblade is +10 and not even close to maxed in terms of damage.

    Duskblade is also not even deity sharded, so their full damage/lockdown potential can easily be greater.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAGgFBCbqUI


  • dingo488
    dingo488 Posts: 936 Arc User
    Step 1. Have a good genie.
    Step 2. Make sure the DB doesnt have a good genie.
    Step 3. ???
    Step 4. You win.
  • ironpwner
    ironpwner Posts: 94 Arc User
    Gank them with another (or even more than one) caster, the more the merrier. Or try to roll a HA class, or a Sin. Also try to use your genie skills, apothecary pots, your own untargetable/stealth/immunity skills if you have those. Try getting in mid range to them, in order to hit em without their passive reduction but still out of their close range. Try to predict their teleports, pull, and sleep/stun combo (yes, it is possible).

    Not every skill is insta cast and they have cooldowns (yep, even after their 5min cooldown ulti which resets their skills, if they use them they enter in cooldown again).

    Not sure if there are plans on nerfing that class, but if there are, I hope they come after the plans for nerfing the Sin class.
    War. War never changes. Memento mori
  • eirghan
    eirghan Posts: 1,912 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    ironpwner wrote: »
    Or try to roll a HA class

    HA class can tank DB if in lesser gear. but will have to be extremely lucky to be able to kill one. Even if the DB is outgeared they are incredibly tanky due to passives and they have so many escapes. In equal gear/out-geared HA stands no chance against DB simply because you are just sitting like a duck waiting for genie CD watching your charm slowly tick away...

    Only HA I can see that stands a chance against DB is BM. The challenge with this class is that they get crit reduction in PVP (how many classes depend on crits to secure a kill in PVP?) and you can only win if you can lock them long enough to get them to burn through genie, apoth, all (3?) antistuns, stealth escape, unselectable escape, and reaper form and now their ulti skill cooldown reset (so times that by 2 and remain unlocked by the DB through all of that time) before one of these escape routes become available again. It's just basically impossible in a 1v1 situation.

    Sin is a good choice imho because they can avoid being locked and put out enough damage to make DB play defensively. But it's still going to be up to luck.

    Actually one I'd be interested to see is a good archer vs db. I wonder if archer can manage to evade/lock the db from a distance enough.
    ​​
  • keihan007#7641
    keihan007#7641 Posts: 1,190 Arc User
    eirghan wrote: »
    Actually one I'd be interested to see is a good archer vs db. I wonder if archer can manage to evade/lock the db from a distance enough.[/color]​​

    Archer can fight sins a bit, takes quite a bit of an effort if sin has brains but semidecent DB? Not a chance. Archer relies on antistuns a lot in matchups agains melees but against DB those matter not as they get their paras trough them.
    BlackList vs Frenzied 3/17

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  • dregen543210
    dregen543210 Posts: 110 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    Basically we can all agree that the answer to "How to beat a *GOOD* DB in a 1v1" is simply:

    You don't.

    (Unless you are a Sin or another DB).
  • eirghan
    eirghan Posts: 1,912 Arc User
    saxroll wrote: »
    eirghan wrote: »
    Actually one I'd be interested to see is a good archer vs db. I wonder if archer can manage to evade/lock the db from a distance enough.[/color]

    Archer can fight sins a bit, takes quite a bit of an effort if sin has brains but semidecent DB? Not a chance. Archer relies on antistuns a lot in matchups agains melees but against DB those matter not as they get their paras trough them.
    saxroll wrote: »
    eirghan wrote: »
    Actually one I'd be interested to see is a good archer vs db. I wonder if archer can manage to evade/lock the db from a distance enough.[/color]

    Archer can fight sins a bit, takes quite a bit of an effort if sin has brains but semidecent DB? Not a chance. Archer relies on antistuns a lot in matchups agains melees but against DB those matter not as they get their paras trough them.

    Oh well one can dream x)​​
  • jsxshadow
    jsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    saxroll wrote: »
    eirghan wrote: »
    Actually one I'd be interested to see is a good archer vs db. I wonder if archer can manage to evade/lock the db from a distance enough.[/color]​​

    Archer can fight sins a bit, takes quite a bit of an effort if sin has brains but semidecent DB? Not a chance. Archer relies on antistuns a lot in matchups agains melees but against DB those matter not as they get their paras trough them.

    Lol at that. Any class can fight any other class easily if you fight a braindead player. Archer vs sin both at the top of their game will always, no matter what to the sin. Even if the Archer never misses anything the sin will still win (just regular chances, not blocked by tidal), especially these days. One Lock and the Archer dies hence he must keep AntiStun up all the time and might be able to escape once with Faith/AD without antistun on. Sin can just wait out all of that jazz and try with Stunport, Stealth -> Headhunt/CJ, Occult Ice and if that works once and the sin can hit the archer for like 4-5 times then the archer is dead esp since there is alot of CC to follow once the archer got initially stopped.

    #DatExperiencedPeopleMyARSE

    If you find an honorable sin that would take on the fight completely Tidal/FM-less then yeah, that could be a nice matchup. With tidal? no way.

    And yes, to anwser OP, you cant.

    Occult Ice helps and yields some wins vs not-so-good or inexperienced DBs, beating a decent DB is damn near impossible. I showed that with some videos. Barbs have the easiest time vs DBs, followed by BMs (excluding sins since they are broken anyways #tidal). Basically...if you are tanky enough to survive some stuff a DB can throw at you and maybe drain their CDs to a point where they cant be in antistun 24/7 or stealth/umbral out of a critical situation then you can win, rather easily at that, esp vs squishy deity dbs :DD =P #datdetiydilemma ). Unfortunatly this is a state you cannot achieve as a caster on equal gears. Sorry.

    PS: If you count the good but prideless DBs using their ulti in a 1on1 then you cannot beat them whatsoever, not even as a sin if done right. But who would do such a terrible thing. #NoUltiSinceUltiIsLOW
  • keihan007#7641
    keihan007#7641 Posts: 1,190 Arc User
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    Lol at that. Any class can fight any other class easily if you fight a braindead player. Archer vs sin both at the top of their game will always, no matter what to the sin. Even if the Archer never misses anything the sin will still win (just regular chances, not blocked by tidal), especially these days. One Lock and the Archer dies hence he must keep AntiStun up all the time and might be able to escape once with Faith/AD without antistun on. Sin can just wait out all of that jazz and try with Stunport, Stealth -> Headhunt/CJ, Occult Ice and if that works once and the sin can hit the archer for like 4-5 times then the archer is dead esp since there is alot of CC to follow once the archer got initially stopped.

    #DatExperiencedPeopleMyARSE

    https://youtu.be/bbmFN-Oc0h0

    Thats supposedly one of the best Twilight sins fighting an archer. Granted its sage archer when most are demon for mass and there is a reason archers doing 1vs1s are sage but oh well. You so like your videos so I found you one.

    Nor did claim archer would beat even skilled sin. I quote myself "Archer can fight sins a bit, takes quite a bit of an effort if sin has brains". If sin has brains, the fight becomes quite an effort. I didnt say if sin was good, I said if they had brains. Good sin vs good archer, sin will win most of the fights short of fluke tidal but having actually extremely competent players going at is is rare. Hence a good archer can fight a sin to an extent. Did I make it simple enough for you now?
    BlackList vs Frenzied 3/17

    https://youtu.be/RkkWkigYd3k
  • eirghan
    eirghan Posts: 1,912 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    Lets chill out ladies. You both had good points.​​
  • freygin
    freygin Posts: 737 Arc User
    Will the upcoming player knockback mechanic help archer against sin ?
  • dregen543210
    dregen543210 Posts: 110 Arc User
    freygin wrote: »
    Will the upcoming player knockback mechanic help archer against sin ?

    Not as much as the upcoming base damage buffs will help sin.

  • freygin
    freygin Posts: 737 Arc User
    I'd like to know this as well, beating a Duskblade 100% in 1v1 is just impossible, even against a lower geared duskblade I can still lose once in a while. My strategy as a cleric is just give him cleric's physical soulburn and wait until he dies stunlocking me. The only chance to do that is by breaking free using faith, and I only have one shot at this, if for some reason I fail to land magical shackle then I'll be in trouble. Even when using anti stun apoth, he can just turn into blackish creature and waste my 20s anti stun buff. That is a lower geared db, at equal gears, the chance is slim or next to none.

    Since wanmei always adds broken stuffs in this game, I've lost my interest in spending money to gear up anymore and just play with what I have. Cleric is also good in 1v1, but can be countered with specific genie and the longer the fight cleric might run out of chi if fail to kill early. But DB doesn't seem to have any weakness.

    Wanmei needs to do a serious rebalancing, but looking at their track records, it's hopeless.
  • dblazen1
    dblazen1 Posts: 1,177 Arc User
    freygin wrote: »
    Wanmei needs to do a serious rebalancing, but looking at their track records, it's hopeless.

    Woo I get to post my CN reminder!
    Reminder: PWCN develops this game with the CN audience / server in mind. They do not have the problems we have, simply because our immense, absurd, ridiculous power creep does not exist there.
    They do not have our problems, so they will not "fix" them.

    If they were to "fix" everything that needed to be fixed for our version, they might as well create an entire seperate dev team that branches our version and works on that. And that is expensive.​​
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  • freygin
    freygin Posts: 737 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    How come they don't have the power creep ? Don't you guys in PWI mostly have the endgame R9.3 gears, the rests like cards, starchart, are available to everyone as well depending on the budget/time each one has. I think ppl in PWCN should suffer from the power creep more because of the gear gaps where R9 is quite hard to get, so the gear gap between the average geared people and the people with super endgame gear is wider. Or maybe I have a misunderstanding about the term power creep o_O

    Power creep as I know it is when game devs keep adding more OP gears with every new update, but in PW, gears could stay the same in years, instead they add different and a lot of mechanics to combat powercreep in gears, seems to me they overdone it, look at that video for the fight between a super endgame wiz and lower geared db, the wiz could only win like 2 times while the rest of the fights were dominated by the db with lower gear.

    Gear even means less in this game, even a super endgame character can die when ganked or being attack assisted by two or more ppl and cc'ed. I believe paralyze mechanic is created to combat purify spell (cmiiw), but in PWCN, r9 is much less than in PWI, most are walking around with r8r sets and Warsoul weapons which don't have purify spell, even if they use r8r I don't think the majority of the mag classes will choose purify spell (or cmiiw because where I play most of them chose Atk lvl/def lvl).
  • dregenfox
    dregenfox Posts: 713 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    freygin wrote: »
    How come they don't have the power creep ? Don't you guys in PWI mostly have the endgame R9.3 gears, the rests like cards, starchart, are available to everyone as well depending on the budget/time each one has. I think ppl in PWCN should suffer from the power creep more because of the gear gaps where R9 is quite hard to get, so the gear gap between the average geared people and the people with super endgame gear is wider. Or maybe I have a misunderstanding about the term power creep o_O

    Power creep as I know it is when game devs keep adding more OP gears with every new update, but in PW, gears could stay the same in years, instead they add different and a lot of mechanics to combat powercreep in gears, seems to me they overdone it, look at that video for the fight between a super endgame wiz and lower geared db, the wiz could only win like 2 times while the rest of the fights were dominated by the db with lower gear.

    Gear even means less in this game, even a super endgame character can die when ganked or being attack assisted by two or more ppl and cc'ed. I believe paralyze mechanic is created to combat purify spell (cmiiw), but in PWCN, r9 is much less than in PWI, most are walking around with r8r sets and Warsoul weapons which don't have purify spell, even if they use r8r I don't think the majority of the mag classes will choose purify spell (or cmiiw because where I play most of them chose Atk lvl/def lvl).

    No, DB's are still king of 1v1 in china, the reason they won't be balanced is because PWI only balances for mass pk, and DB's aren't the most op there.

    All the tools given to DB were given to them to help them survive as a non-tidal light armor melee class in large scale pk.
  • freygin
    freygin Posts: 737 Arc User
    DB's are still king of 1v1 in china, yes, but so are they here in PWI and everywhere else. The game mechanics are the same doesn't matter where, and there is no such thing as balance in mass pk, there are too many variables involved. The only thing that makes sense is like what you said, they were given that kind of skillset to help them survive as a non-tidal light armor melee class in large scale pk...which resulted as being too op in 1v1.
  • srovarie
    srovarie Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    As a veno, my best solution is to use all bramble at once as soon as I see a duskblade. Because the multihit skills, the duskblade are usually dead before he could notice anything. Or at least they go into shadow form or in worst case they use sleep+tank a few hit for stuns/para after. Sadly it's not work at openworld.
    This may seems as a very unreilable strategy but it works most of the time. Especially against overgeared opponents. Most of them (same as really op sins) don't care reflect damage anymore just try to kill you through bramble hood (sad part they may actually success). That way I could kill countless duskblades at NW even stonger ones. And as a sage veno I can gather enough chi for a 2nd turn if duskblade escape first. They never except from that skill to be used 2 times in a row.
    Ps.: Sorry for english.