Sharding for Accessories

ibajames101
ibajames101 Posts: 56 Arc User
Im a deity sin +12 and wanna know which one yall think is best for my accessory sharding. im interested in Genie stone(Atk lvl+2) or Brilliance stone. Im at a stand still cause with the coming update there will be a new sky level and idk if spirit will be worth and i should just get atk lvls instead. Any guidance is appreciated.

Comments

  • ruhcik
    ruhcik Posts: 40 Arc User
    There's theory that as more spirit u have that give u less power. We know they will add new PRIMAL LVL soon so i prefer you to put +2att or +2 def
  • iw8ing4u
    iw8ing4u Posts: 37 Arc User
    there 2 options
    1. no matter what spirit it is the diffrence stay fixed and so the +... so if diffrence between 2 players is 200 spirit it dont matter if its 700 and 900 or 1300 and 1500 it still same 200 spirit diffrence and same +
    2. there is some math formula that make change if spirit is high or low... so if 700 and 900 is MORE + then if 1300 and 1500... so the more spirit in game from prime sky lvls the LESS affective it is if the diffrence is same

    honstly i dont know which 1 of the options is right....
    the math system for combat dmg is so complex that even if i knew if 1st or 2nd option is true what worth more in terms of basic atk - spirit - atk lvls and how much + in each worth
    what better? 30 stat in prime stat need for weapon? +50 atk? +5 spirit? +1 atk lvl? i just dont know... how game do math for the end result of DMG ? not sure
    also not sure if but heard there is limit on atk lvls... like if u have 100+ more atk lvls then player have def lvls so its still count only as 100+... so 250+ atk lvl and 130+ atk lvl will b same is some cases... not sure
    1 thing is sure... the more u have more in each of this 3 -> basic atk - spirit - atk lvls ... u will make more dmg
    maybe use the open "ask me anything" now in forum 2 ask what better... maybe u will get clear short answer....maybe u will get some very long math formula that if u will start put numbers in u can know as answer... idk
  • blazerboy
    blazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    I say atk stones. Many people have theory he more spirit you have the less effective I wouldn't use spirit stones
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  • ibajames101
    ibajames101 Posts: 56 Arc User
    thanks guys, i was thinking the same thing i just wanted to be sure
  • freygin
    freygin Posts: 737 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    Max number of sockets in an acc is 4, there are 2 accs, so in total we will have 8 sockets to fill. With spirit stone, max level stone will give 32 spirit per stone, timed 8 = 256 spirit. For atk/def lvl stone max is +2, so in total there would be 16 level of atk/def. So in the end it's 256 spirit vs 16 level of atk/def.

    With later update there would be more sky level so everyone will have higher default spirit, lets say ppl will have normally 2000 spirit, if we chose Spirit Stones, we'll have the advantage of having 256 more spirit = 2256. The nature of having more Spirit is to deal more damage while receiving less damage. With 2256 spirit against a char with 2000 spirit, we'll have the advantage of dealing 8.53% more damage while receiving 7.86% less damage. If we choose atk/def lvl stone and make it balance like spirit, we'll have +8 atk lvl and +8 def level, that's more or less the same as having 256 spirit. BUT with atk/def level stone, we can go all the way offensive to +16 atk level or all the way defensive to +16 def level.

    For an example there are 2 chars with the exact copy of everything, same class, same gears and everything. Let's call them A and B. Both have 8 atk level and 8 def level.
    A chose spirit stones so he has 2256 spirit, 8 atk level and 8 def level.
    B chose atk/def lvl stones so he has 2000 spirit, +16 atk level and +16 def level.

    When A attacks B with 1000 damage, he deals damage = damage dealt / (1 + 1.2 * (D - A)/100)*1.0853 = 1000/(1+1.2*(D-A)/100) * 1.0853=912*1.0853= 990 damage.
    When B attacks A with 1000 damage, he deals damage = damage dealt * (1 + (A - D)/100) * (100%-7.86%) = 1080 * 92.14% = 995 damage.

    See how it's more or less the same at 2000 spirit, BUT clearly with atk/def level stones, we can opt to go more offensive with +16 atk level (mostly for dd class) or defensive with +16 def level (for support class). I believe beyond 2000 default spirit, that 256 more spirit will lose its effectiveness more because at 2000 spirits, B already won by 5 points of damage.

    It's just an example though, there are a lot of outcomes with different A and B, so it'd be hard to measure but my pick would be atk/def lvl stones because it's cheaper with only 3 stones. Especially when going all the way offensive/defensive, because the way I see it, there is no way 32x8 spirit will out damage +16 atk level or beat the damage reduction from 16 def level (cmiiw)..

    At 2500 spirit, 2756 vs 2500 spirit will deal 7.31% more damage and receive 6.81% less damage.
    At 3000 spirit, 3256 vs 3000 spirit will deal 6.4% more damage and receive 6.01% less damage.
    The advantage is getting smaller and smaller with higher spirit.

    -edit-
    I'm still curious though and do some more math with different example of A & B because maybe the atk and def level was too small to showcase the advantage of having higher spirit. Atk level only affects base dmg while spirit affects base dmg * atk lvl.

    Example #2
    Both A and B have 150 atk level 100 def level.
    A chose spirit stones so he has 2256 spirit, 150 atk level and 100 def level.
    B chose atk/def lvl stones so he has 2000 spirit, +158 atk level and 108 def level.

    When A attacks B with 10000 damage, he deals damage = damage dealt * (1 + (A - D)/100) * 1.0853 = 14200 * 1.0853=15,411 dmg.
    When B attacks A with 10000 damage, he deals damage = damage dealt * (1 + (A - D)/100) * (100%-7.86%) = 15800 *92.14=14,558 dmg.

    In this case Spirit is better than a balanced atk and def lvl stones, but at higher spirit A/D lvl stones might catch up. The previous example has too small atk/def level for comparison, but I'll just let it there just for proof that we can't say this shard is better than that shard because there are a lot of variables than can turn the tide.

    Choosing to go more offensive with +16 atk level or defensive with +16 def level is actually what makes atk/def lvl stones could be more advantageous. But for a character with extremely high atk level, spirits could be more advantageous for dmg than full atk lvl acc shards, as long as (spirit multiplier * (A-D)) > 16.

    So my final conclusion is it varies wildly depending on char build and what we aim, for higher damage or higher survival. It's not as simple as I thought it was.
    Post edited by freygin on
  • keihan007#7641
    keihan007#7641 Posts: 1,190 Arc User
    The huge issue with math provided is costs. Brilliance stones have dropped in price but you need ungodly amount of them to actually get the best shard, multiply that by 8. For complete endgame players with more money than they know what to do with, spirit shard has its uses. For with averageish "endgame" setups, there is no reason to pay massive amounts for minimal advantage.

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  • freygin
    freygin Posts: 737 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    Example #3 (full +2 atk lvl = +16 atk lvl)
    Both A and B have 150 atk level 100 def level.
    A chose spirit stones so he has 2256 spirit, 150 atk level and 100 def level.
    B chose atk lvl stones so he has 2000 spirit, +166 atk level and 100 def level.

    When A attacks B with 10000 damage, he deals damage = damage dealt * (1 + (A - D)/100) * 1.0853 = 15000 * 1.0853=16,279 dmg.
    When B attacks A with 10000 damage, he deals damage = damage dealt * (1 + (A - D)/100) * (100%-7.86%) = 16600 *92.14=15,295 dmg.

    Even with full +16 atk lvl , Spirit Stone still trumps +16 atk lvl because B doesn't have any defense level coming from acc to reduce the damage dealt by A.

    Example #4 (full +2 def lvl = +16 def lvl)
    A chose spirit stones so he has 2256 spirit, 150 atk level and 100 def level.
    B chose atk lvl stones so he has 2000 spirit, +150 atk level and 116 def level.

    When A attacks B with 10000 damage, he deals damage = damage dealt * (1 + (A - D)/100) * 1.0853 = 13400 * 1.0853=14,543 dmg.
    When B attacks A with 10000 damage, he deals damage = damage dealt * (1 + (A - D)/100) * (100%-7.86%) = 15000 *92.14=13,821 dmg.

    And even with full +16 def lvl, Spirit Stone is still the better shard. It only managed to reduce the damage gap by a small margin.

    I stand corrected by doing further calculation, turns out Spirit Stone is indeed the better shard. Need to test it further in excel at different spirit though. I agree the huge issue with the best 32 spirit stone is the cost. The amount to reach 32 spirit for just one shard is insanely high (81 brilliance stone lv1), x8 = 648 brilliance stone Lv1 O_o.