Is the T3 r9 armor better than the T4 r9 armor for Barbarians?

I was comparing the Hegemony Set(T3) including the set bonuses with the Chieftain's Set(T4) and it seemed like upgrading the gear would actually be a huge downgrade rather than an upgrade. Am I missing something or is the T4 actually worse than the T3 set?

Comments

  • nbreaking
    nbreaking Posts: 607 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    R9r4 armor is worse than r9rr. No matter what class. You lose 5 attack lvls, 5 defense lvls (total you get 2 more on the belt and 1 more on the chest piece, so, you lose in the end 3 attack lvls, 2 defense lvls), HP and 100 magic/str/dex depending on your class. You sacrifice this for a bit more of soulforce.

    The upgrade is not worth it for free, much less for the price they ask. Don't do it, you cannot revert back to r9rr.

    The only thing worth about r9r4 is the weapon, everything else is ****, **** and more ****, even for a Psy, the extra soulforce gain in comparison to what you lose is totally not worth it.



    Mr. Justice
  • dregenfox
    dregenfox Posts: 713 Arc User
    nbreaking wrote: »
    R9r4 armor is worse than r9rr. No matter what class. You lose 5 attack lvls, 5 defense lvls (total you get 2 more on the belt and 1 more on the chest piece, so, you lose in the end 3 attack lvls, 2 defense lvls), HP and 100 magic/str/dex depending on your class. You sacrifice this for a bit more of soulforce.

    The upgrade is not worth it for free, much less for the price they ask. Don't do it, you cannot revert back to r9rr.

    The only thing worth about r9r4 is the weapon, everything else is ****, **** and more ****, even for a Psy, the extra soulforce gain in comparison to what you lose is totally not worth it.

    Do you know what the transfer cost is for R9r4 in chienkuns?

  • nbreaking
    nbreaking Posts: 607 Arc User
    dregenfox wrote: »
    nbreaking wrote: »
    R9r4 armor is worse than r9rr. No matter what class. You lose 5 attack lvls, 5 defense lvls (total you get 2 more on the belt and 1 more on the chest piece, so, you lose in the end 3 attack lvls, 2 defense lvls), HP and 100 magic/str/dex depending on your class. You sacrifice this for a bit more of soulforce.

    The upgrade is not worth it for free, much less for the price they ask. Don't do it, you cannot revert back to r9rr.

    The only thing worth about r9r4 is the weapon, everything else is ****, **** and more ****, even for a Psy, the extra soulforce gain in comparison to what you lose is totally not worth it.

    Do you know what the transfer cost is for R9r4 in chienkuns?

    No clue to be honest, but it should be around the same from r9r to r9rr which is 149 for +10, 500 for +12, look here, even if it's not accurate it will give you an idea.



    Mr. Justice
  • dregenfox
    dregenfox Posts: 713 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    nbreaking wrote: »
    dregenfox wrote: »
    nbreaking wrote: »
    R9r4 armor is worse than r9rr. No matter what class. You lose 5 attack lvls, 5 defense lvls (total you get 2 more on the belt and 1 more on the chest piece, so, you lose in the end 3 attack lvls, 2 defense lvls), HP and 100 magic/str/dex depending on your class. You sacrifice this for a bit more of soulforce.

    The upgrade is not worth it for free, much less for the price they ask. Don't do it, you cannot revert back to r9rr.

    The only thing worth about r9r4 is the weapon, everything else is ****, **** and more ****, even for a Psy, the extra soulforce gain in comparison to what you lose is totally not worth it.

    Do you know what the transfer cost is for R9r4 in chienkuns?

    No clue to be honest, but it should be around the same from r9r to r9rr which is 149 for +10, 500 for +12, look here, even if it's not accurate it will give you an idea.

    Wow...so ppl are spending 300g to get a 6-7% damage increase and 200-odd hp... Definitely better to save that 300g worth of coins and buy g17, once PWI makes it buyable.
  • bigbroitachi
    bigbroitachi Posts: 6 Arc User
    So basically the armor is a downgrade but the weapon is still worth getting? is this true for all classes or are some of the weapons downgrades as well?

  • dregenfox
    dregenfox Posts: 713 Arc User
    So basically the armor is a downgrade but the weapon is still worth getting? is this true for all classes or are some of the weapons downgrades as well?

    For casters you get less weapon damage (-60 mag attk) but extra attack levels and +25 mag. The attk levels and 25 mag make up for the lowered weapon damage and then some, but it differs depending on the skill.
  • teikiatsu11
    teikiatsu11 Posts: 98 Arc User
    So basically the armor is a downgrade but the weapon is still worth getting? is this true for all classes or are some of the weapons downgrades as well?

    The r9r4 weapon for barbarians is a bit of a downgrade. You end up losing damage and all you gain is 5 extra atk lvls over max stat r9r3 weapon and +500 hp.
  • zigheart
    zigheart Posts: 54 Arc User
    I wouldn't say the gear is necessarily worse. the current meta is to out DD your target. people have stated already you lose some stats ad gain soul force, but its also neglected to mention r4 is a LOT tankier. even with the stats you lose. the belt is refinable which adds another 1500+ m/pdef wich combined with primals adds 80% on top of weapons refining a bit better then r9rr. the damage is a bit negligable. but the defense ups quite a bit.for most classes better attack suits them more. but a catapuller may like the new r9 more. i calculated it out on pwcalc once by i forget the exact percentages. think it was around 5-6% (which doesn't seem like much but it is) so you can basically have 4-6% more attack or 4-6% more defense.
  • blazerboy
    blazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    In the case of a FULL support cleric mystic Bm veno barb getting the R9CN(Sorry but I won't acknowledge a overall downgrade as a recast I'm petty lol) ring and belt is not a bad idea at all due to the fact that belt refined 12 is a MASSIVE boost. There's a veno on DB even with insane focus by db and sins all at once it can still escape through sheer tankiness due to that belt carrying her in fox form and I know some clerics who camp defense wep during tws so why not add the extra defense same goes for barbs and bums. At this point it's preference and how YOU want to play I think we all can agree on that. But as stated before just remember once you do it there's no going back or crying to gms you made a mistake
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  • demansfairy
    demansfairy Posts: 456 Arc User
    The chienkun cost for weps at least is 90% of base (that's 900 at +12) which is c9mplete insane.

    Not all magic classes lose mag attack, SB for example gains about 200 or so magic damage from their wep compared to the 3r9 one (on top of the crit, att lv, chan , and MAGIC) which makes it insanely worth it.

    It's more like 245 gold (oricalcum and 12* orb) + 1.1bil co9n (powder +fee) for 9-10% more damage and 300 more hp, which is very very worth it considering it takes over a year at very high level collection HS quests just to get 1 of the mats needed for g17bwep.
    full +12 SB, currently lv 105 105 105
  • nbreaking
    nbreaking Posts: 607 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    zigheart wrote: »
    I wouldn't say the gear is necessarily worse. the current meta is to out DD your target. people have stated already you lose some stats ad gain soul force, but its also neglected to mention r4 is a LOT tankier. even with the stats you lose. the belt is refinable which adds another 1500+ m/pdef wich combined with primals adds 80% on top of weapons refining a bit better then r9rr. the damage is a bit negligable. but the defense ups quite a bit.for most classes better attack suits them more. but a catapuller may like the new r9 more. i calculated it out on pwcalc once by i forget the exact percentages. think it was around 5-6% (which doesn't seem like much but it is) so you can basically have 4-6% more attack or 4-6% more defense.

    Tell me exactly how that makes sense.
    For example, for a sin, the r9rr belt gives 850 of each stat, the r9r4 gives +1575 at +12, 1575-850=725, with the 80% boost from the passive = 1305 more defense.
    Wow, you say, that is a lot of defense, let's say fully buffed that jumps to 2000 defense more.
    Here's the problem: You lost defense lvls, so, just there your defense goes down and defense is not linear, it's exponential, meaning, for a barb let's say that already has r9rr with 80k phy def and let's say 30k mag def, adding 2k is ****, it's a boost of 0.something %.... So, you lost all that attack and you are still NOT tankier at all.
    blazerboy wrote: »
    In the case of a FULL support cleric mystic Bm veno barb getting the R9CN(Sorry but I won't acknowledge a overall downgrade as a recast I'm petty lol) ring and belt is not a bad idea at all due to the fact that belt refined 12 is a MASSIVE boost. There's a veno on DB even with insane focus by db and sins all at once it can still escape through sheer tankiness due to that belt carrying her in fox form and I know some clerics who camp defense wep during tws so why not add the extra defense same goes for barbs and bums. At this point it's preference and how YOU want to play I think we all can agree on that. But as stated before just remember once you do it there's no going back or crying to gms you made a mistake

    Everyone can play the game as they want, true, but saying r9r4 is better than r9rr is a lie, the defense you think you gain is a lie like i've explained above. If you really want to have a defensive stance, get r8r weapon, o'malley and a g17 belt, you'll ruin your r9 set and lose the 30 attack lvls but now you have better defense. "But g17 belt is too expensive", so is r9r4 and making it +12 like everyone is saying they will. Also, if you think the belt is the only thing making that veno tanky... bruh... xD
    Post edited by nbreaking on



    Mr. Justice
  • kuglepen
    kuglepen Posts: 37 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    nbreaking wrote: »
    blazerboy wrote: »
    In the case of a FULL support cleric mystic Bm veno barb getting the R9CN(Sorry but I won't acknowledge a overall downgrade as a recast I'm petty lol) ring and belt is not a bad idea at all due to the fact that belt refined 12 is a MASSIVE boost. There's a veno on DB even with insane focus by db and sins all at once it can still escape through sheer tankiness due to that belt carrying her in fox form and I know some clerics who camp defense wep during tws so why not add the extra defense same goes for barbs and bums. At this point it's preference and how YOU want to play I think we all can agree on that. But as stated before just remember once you do it there's no going back or crying to gms you made a mistake

    Everyone can play the game as they want, true, but saying r9r4 is better than r9rr is a lie, the defense you think you gain is a lie like i've explained above. If you really want to have a defensive stance, get r8r weapon, o'malley and a g17 belt, you'll ruin your r9 set and lose the 30 attack lvls but now you have better defense. "But g17 belt is too expensive", so is r9r4 and making it +12 like everyone is saying they will. Also, if you think the belt is the only thing making that veno tanky... bruh... xD

    A lie? You are saying almost the exact same thing as the person you quoted. Ruin the attack level bonus from R9.3 set by exchanging the belt for G17 belt (your case, gain +5 defense level & +35 spirit) or exchanging for R9PWCN belt + the ring ( his case, gain +12 defense levels)

    Ok ok, he didnt mention the defense level gain from swapping the few r9pwcn pieces, just the pure defense - but they are still there.
  • nbreaking
    nbreaking Posts: 607 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    kuglepen wrote: »
    nbreaking wrote: »
    blazerboy wrote: »
    In the case of a FULL support cleric mystic Bm veno barb getting the R9CN(Sorry but I won't acknowledge a overall downgrade as a recast I'm petty lol) ring and belt is not a bad idea at all due to the fact that belt refined 12 is a MASSIVE boost. There's a veno on DB even with insane focus by db and sins all at once it can still escape through sheer tankiness due to that belt carrying her in fox form and I know some clerics who camp defense wep during tws so why not add the extra defense same goes for barbs and bums. At this point it's preference and how YOU want to play I think we all can agree on that. But as stated before just remember once you do it there's no going back or crying to gms you made a mistake

    Everyone can play the game as they want, true, but saying r9r4 is better than r9rr is a lie, the defense you think you gain is a lie like i've explained above. If you really want to have a defensive stance, get r8r weapon, o'malley and a g17 belt, you'll ruin your r9 set and lose the 30 attack lvls but now you have better defense. "But g17 belt is too expensive", so is r9r4 and making it +12 like everyone is saying they will. Also, if you think the belt is the only thing making that veno tanky... bruh... xD

    A lie? You are saying almost the exact same thing as the person you quoted. Ruin the attack level bonus from R9.3 set by exchanging the belt for G17 belt (your case, gain +5 defense level & +35 spirit) or exchanging for R9PWCN belt + the ring ( his case, gain +12 defense levels)

    Ok ok, he didnt mention the defense level gain from swapping the few r9pwcn pieces, just the pure defense - but they are still there.

    Where did the +12 defense lvls come from? :|
    Listen, since OP mentioned a barb, I'm going to talk about barb r9rr vs r9r4 armor.

    R9rr totals (including set bonus and on max stats):
    Attack lvl: 33
    Defense lvl: 33
    Interval: -0.15
    Str: 166
    Vit: 54
    HP: 1520
    HP%: 5%
    Chanelling: -6%
    Crit: 6%
    Speed: +0.3m/s
    Mag def: 850
    Reduce magic damage taken: 3%
    Accuracy: +50%

    R9r4 totals (including set bonus on max stats):
    Attack lvl: 30
    Defense lvl: 30
    Interval: -0.2
    Str: 55
    Vit: 40
    HP: 320
    HP%: 5%
    Chanelling: -6%
    Crit: 12%
    Speed: +0.3m/s
    Mag def: 700
    Reduce magic damage taken: 5%
    Accuracy: 50%
    Maximum MP: 600%
    Soulforce: 1200

    Difference between the 2:
    - R9rr
    +3 att lvl
    +3 def lvl
    +111 str
    +14 vit
    +1200 hp
    +150 mag def

    -R9r4
    +6% crit
    +2% reduce magic dmg taken
    +600% mp
    +1200 soulforce

    How da hell is R9r4 better than r9rr for defense OR attack? Damn, as a barb those 1.2k soulforce will make suuuuuch a difference, but hey, you can refine it right? So, total you lose all of those things (str 111, 1200hp, 3 def lvls, etc) but you get +1085 defense at +12 and 1200+2535=3735 soulforce.

    Seriously, after I've told you this (you can do the research yourself) you still want to go full r9r4 (not even talking about prices) you are simply dumb :| sacrificing all those stats for 6% crit, 3735 soulforce, 2% mag reduction and 600% MP... GG
    Post edited by nbreaking on



    Mr. Justice
  • beast21g
    beast21g Posts: 631 Arc User
    last time i checked at forges there is no Chienkun transfer
  • capnk
    capnk Posts: 486 Arc User
    nbreaking wrote: »
    sacrificing all those stats for 6% crit, 3735 soulforce, 2% mag reduction and 600% MP... GG

    From what I've heard the 600% mp isn't as good as it sounds either, it's some kind of typo. Relevant to wizards, who can do things with more max mp.
  • blazerboy
    blazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    @nbreaking I'm sayin from our experiences me and a couple buddies, before that belt that veno was manageable a sin and a db duo could easily put it down after saves like pot genie and certain veno skills have been exhausted provided they had upper echelon gear (forgive me my knowledge of veno skill names is limited). Once she got that belt it just became rediculously harder, it can be 3-4 Deity chars sins/db and she will get away consistently through the saves and more defense even her human form I noticed is more of a hassle . I believe it's like what you said 850 p.def and I think the 2 set is 10 defense levels? In full buffs that's quite a bit more if you ask me.


    Addressing your g17 belt point. In this sense I agree with you because heck I wouldn't wanna risk **** my r9 in any shape or form and now that I think about it I probably will look for and buy a g17 belt now just for giggles but as I stated perhaps people want the p.def and def lvl unless I'm making a mistake and the 2 set bonus is not 10 def level it's been quite awhile since I inquired about it though
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  • blazerboy
    blazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    Also regarding the weapons I don't think the duskblade got a fair shake considering sins get to keep their 2.0 range and db do not and get darn well nothing to compensate that sad fact. Many say well what's the difference but heck sin and duskblade alike well ones I know understand that it's very noticeable >.<''..I promise you that it's very niceable especially when you get randomly frozen and if you try to port oh look GG air glitch as usual good job pw lol
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  • kuglepen
    kuglepen Posts: 37 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    @nbreaking how about YOU do some research first?

    But let me explain the stuff you because you clearly don't understand.

    I nowhere stated (nor did he) that FULL r9pwcn is better than r9.3

    First of all. It was stated changing R9 belt and ring ONLY for the R9PWCN belt and ring.

    You break your attack level bonus ONLY. Means you have rest of the bonus set from r9.3 still.

    In exchange you gain +10 dense level from having R9PWCN belt+ring (two pieces bonus)

    The defense level on r9pwcn belt is a tiny bit higher than on r9.3 (by 2) along with a little higher defense when refined.

    The ring is identical to our r9.3 ring in terms of stats and refine. Only difference is it's part of set. Hope it's obvious why this is needed.

    Total that makes +12 defense level in exchange of your attack level
    This is why he stated ONLY 100% support because once you do this, there's no going back.

    I do however like the idea of g17 belt instead as you can go back to r9.3 in case you want the attack back. But I guess the defense gain is higher on the r9pwcn two set exchange, however with a risk.
  • nbreaking
    nbreaking Posts: 607 Arc User
    blazerboy wrote: »
    Also regarding the weapons I don't think the duskblade got a fair shake considering sins get to keep their 2.0 range and db do not and get darn well nothing to compensate that sad fact. Many say well what's the difference but heck sin and duskblade alike well ones I know understand that it's very noticeable >.<''..I promise you that it's very niceable especially when you get randomly frozen and if you try to port oh look GG air glitch as usual good job pw lol

    You also have to remember, about the veno thing, that they got the new skills from HS at the same time as the gear, so, maybe that also has to do with it. To be fair, I am not going to go into the skills because I don't know them that well (the veno ones) apart from the ulti, so, idk if they could make that big of a difference.
    kuglepen wrote: »
    @nbreaking how about YOU do some research first?

    But let me explain the stuff you because you clearly don't understand.

    I nowhere stated (nor did he) that FULL r9pwcn is better than r9.3

    First of all. It was stated changing R9 belt and ring ONLY for the R9PWCN belt and ring.

    You break your attack level bonus ONLY. Means you have rest of the bonus set from r9.3 still.

    In exchange you gain +10 dense level from having R9PWCN belt+ring (two pieces bonus)

    The defense level on r9pwcn belt is a tiny bit higher than on r9.3 (by 2) along with a little higher defense when refined.

    The ring is identical to our r9.3 ring in terms of stats and refine. Only difference is it's part of set. Hope it's obvious why this is needed.

    Total that makes +12 defense level in exchange of your attack level
    This is why he stated ONLY 100% support because once you do this, there's no going back.

    I do however like the idea of g17 belt instead as you can go back to r9.3 in case you want the attack back. But I guess the defense gain is higher on the r9pwcn two set exchange, however with a risk.

    But that's exactly my point <.< Once you break your r9rr set for the extra 12 defense it's gone, done, over and that would be a stupid decision. Let's be real, sure, there are catabarbs for example and support mystics, clerics, etc, but who buys full r9+12 JUST for support? It would be dumb to **** your r9 set forever for 12 defense lvls when at end game, if you're already JOSD, won't make you imortal or something.
    What you said about the g17 belt, yes, you get the soulforce (a bit less than the r9 one) but you get 8 attack lvls and 8 defense lvls (plus spirit and bla bla) and you're able to keep your r9rr intact, meaning you can go to a more defensive state (r8r, g17 belt, O'malley's) or offensive.

    In the end you have to choose, do you want to break your r9rr forever for 4 extra defense lvls and 1200 soulforce (since g17 belt gives 8 def lvls) or would you rather keep it intact and only get 8 def lvls instead of 12? I personally would prefer to have a g17 belt if I was a support class.



    Mr. Justice
  • kuglepen
    kuglepen Posts: 37 Arc User
    nbreaking wrote: »
    the defense you think you gain is a lie
    nbreaking wrote: »
    Where did the +12 defense lvls come from? :|
    nbreaking wrote: »
    How da hell is R9r4 better than r9rr for defense
    nbreaking wrote: »
    you still want to go full r9r4 (not even talking about prices) you are simply dumb :|
    nbreaking wrote: »
    But that's exactly my point <.<


    Please dont make me laugh
  • dregen543210
    dregen543210 Posts: 110 Arc User
    Um 850 phy def and 10 def levels, on a sage fox with JoSD and o'malley's, is at least 15% less damage taken from physical sources. The tradeoff is 30 att levels. It doesn't really make sense on anyone except pure support venomancers, clerics, and cata barbs.

    Not even mystics should go for it, because a pure support mystic is dumb.
  • blazerboy
    blazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    You would be surprised how many Mystics with endgame gear have 0 ability to DD due to a serious lacking of understanding. Also don't forget pure support bms hahahah if a full r9rr bit build/vit stone bm isn't support idk what is hahah
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  • blazerboy
    blazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    I would personally prefer the g17 belt to use though so I can have a full defense mode and attack mode which would suit a flexible gameplay I enjoy
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  • only1wish
    only1wish Posts: 35 Arc User
    I'ld like to point out that 600%MP is a typo. At least for Seekers in pwi data base says 600%MP but if you check on the actual forges - surprise! It's actually + 300 hp on 2 gear pieces.
  • dregen543210
    dregen543210 Posts: 110 Arc User
    blazerboy wrote: »
    You would be surprised how many Mystics with endgame gear have 0 ability to DD due to a serious lacking of understanding. Also don't forget pure support bms hahahah if a full r9rr bit build/vit stone bm isn't support idk what is hahah

    Well, I gotta give props to those people willing to completely sacrifice their offensive viability to concentrate on a single role, it's definitely not a very fun way to play the game however.

    I recall a veno on our server who went boundless belt/ring trying to stop me in a 1v1 tower battle in NW, and doing 400 damage/nuke with a +12 weapon. But she was also unkillable for me too, even tough I was doing more damage.

    Since belt/ring is a permanent choice I can only bow in awe of that sacrifice o.o.

  • artixstar90
    artixstar90 Posts: 22 Arc User
    necro