Uncharted Paradise - Expansion seems doomed to fail

angellicdeity · April 2016

I like that this instance has some unique challenges to it - but the biggest problem with the instance is that the instance has been setup to be a massive failure. The daily limitations on entry artificially lower the speed at which the G17 content can be obtained. But that really isn't the issue - the daily limitations on entry have all but shut down access to the instance to newcomers.

Squads are becoming increasingly selective as they only have really 1-shot to complete the instance. Players are not encouraged to help newcomers learn the instance. Sure you can watch youtube videos - but watching and doing the instance are two completely different things. The situation is deteriorating as "daily" set squads are already beginning to form. Those left out are left out.

This expansion is quickly going to crash and burn if PW doesn't find a way to enable a more inclusive experience for UP. FSJ while it was more challenging didn't have the artificial entry barrier. Squads were a little more inclusive as they could simply retry with another squad later on in the day.

himuradave0025 · April 2016

angellicdeity said:
I like that this instance has some unique challenges to it - but the biggest problem with the instance is that the instance has been setup to be a massive failure. The daily limitations on entry artificially lower the speed at which the G17 content can be obtained. But that really isn't the issue - the daily limitations on entry have all but shut down access to the instance to newcomers.

Squads are becoming increasingly selective as they only have really 1-shot to complete the instance. Players are not encouraged to help newcomers learn the instance. Sure you can watch youtube videos - but watching and doing the instance are two completely different things. The situation is deteriorating as "daily" set squads are already beginning to form. Those left out are left out.

This expansion is quickly going to crash and burn if PW doesn't find a way to enable a more inclusive experience for UP. FSJ while it was more challenging didn't have the artificial entry barrier. Squads were a little more inclusive as they could simply retry with another squad later on in the day.

And not only is the daily limitation a problem, but is also the fact that squads (not all, seem a couple lucky people who have been able to get into squads with them) are asking for r9 people only, so this is gonna be just one more of those cases where only the etilist, already OP people, r9ers will get to farm the instance while the rest of players will have either to wait for years till they already get their g17 and start selling mats (for outrageous prices because greed will always be there), or just cash/farm r9 to get a chance to get the recasts, or just get stale and stick with current gear. It would be ok if this instance were more like FSJ

chary · April 2016

Should really be at least two entry items per day like QSM, if not three like Nirvana. They seem to really dislike people spamming instances though and have tried to limit that since Nirvana came out.

catgirldesu · April 2016

They should change it so the NPC give us three keys per day, like Nirvana. That gives us more room for failure. I guess you can only try making a squad yourself with friends or faction mates. I'm sure G16 Nirvana people can complete it.

I know it sucks that people are only asking for R9rr or go with set squads, but on the other hand I can understand them not wanting to pick up randoms because it can make the run really frustrating, especially when people don't listen and can't follow instructions, even when you try to teach them.

nbreaking · April 2016

I'm gonna share my experience in Tideswell.
I always make my own squad, we use vent, we don't require people to talk there but to at least listen.

Reasons I don't take people:
- If you're a 6k hp person I simply won't take you, r9 is not required but even with g16 you should have way higher hp specially since we have passives.
- If it's your first time AND you don't want to get on vent i don't take you. I won't be typing every single day to new people what to do, I'm sorry, too many mechanics and too much time wasted typing
- If you can't speak english or simply refuse to listen you get kicked, UP is a teamwork instance, if you die you die and that's fine as long as you're listening.

Bottom line is, I run with g16 people all the time, if you are "strong" (as in you at least care enough to get your passives and stuff) and if you listen i'll teach you.
So far I haven't kicked anyone and only refused to take 1 person (because they joined the squad and had 7k hp) and i've being doing it since day 1 and every single day I am teaching new people what to do.

I am however going to recognize there are people WCing for "r9rr only", ignore them, they're morons that think if something can't be nuked then it's not possible/worth doing.

chary · April 2016

sontzu wrote: »

Apparently it is beyond the wit of the devs to limit players to 1 completed run per day. That would solve the problem in one fell swoop and seriously undermine our low opinions of wanmei

So like how they changed EU? That would work.

tictic99999 · April 2016

whether 1 key or 3 per day its not gonna change this QQ thread. This is a (*drumroll*) endgame instance. The bosses have 47 million hp and without nuking the instance takes from 1-2 hours++. Nuke squads (full r93rd +12 wep minimum) can do it in about 30 minutes. Almost every boss has non-auto-1shot aoe that will 1 shot people who are less than G16 +10, the instance was designed that way. Personally I wouldn't take anyone with less than 12k/16k/20k aa/la/ha hp unbuffed into the instance.

suzukmann · April 2016

inb4 drops get added to NW forges and noone bothers running up ever again

dblazen1 · April 2016

>Powercreep people asking for powercreep requirements to run an end-game instance

What else is new?
What I never understood is the entire "guide me through stuff" mentality, what's the fun in reading or getting everything explained or handed to you on a silver platter?
The only reason why someone does that is because the squad most likely will have at least 1 entitled **** in it that will complain if you die when you don't know what to do (yet).

The best way to learn is to actually do things. Being explained is only a small part of it.

kurisukotze · April 2016

I remember FSJ only being for r9r3 look at us now xD

elyora2 · April 2016

Wasn't that the whole point of UP? For it to be the hardest instance in PWI?

And still, it is not even hard at all, and pretty easy to figure out. I do not think it is PWI's mistake that your friends do not want to take you to UP lol.
Are you gonna cry about Xserver PK tourney soon too? That none PKers or lower geared people have no chance to gain the G17 mats from there as well? Come on, get over yourself and learn how to do the instance instead of trying to get hand hold by better geared players.
I love how hard UP is, and they should keep it that way. Because even now, it's pretty easy.

tricksie · April 2016

There have been several occasions on TT server where people are making squads, invite individuals and once they enter the instance are immediately kicked - thus completely ruining someones run for the day.
As stated above by Desdi-- it should really be like Nirvana or AEU.... 3 entries per day to avoid situations like this.

Personally, I will only run this instance with my guild.. and even then they must be on vent or they don't go. When people don't listen or follow instructsions (hell even if they don't know their class -- HELLO CLERICS YOU NEED TO HEAL!!!) this run can seriously be anger inducing and take the full 3 hours to complete.

darkonome · April 2016

tricksie said:
this run can seriously be anger inducing and take the full 3 hours to complete.

4 hours.

I think its pretty fun, and yeah once we work it all out will get easier but I like the difficulty setting, for the moment we have a PvE challenge of sorts.

shade13 · April 2016

himuradave0025 wrote: »

And not only is the daily limitation a problem, but is also the fact that squads (not all, seem a couple lucky people who have been able to get into squads with them) are asking for r9 people only

What's the problem to make your own squad and invite whoever you wish?

dingo488 · April 2016

Due to lack of the player's ability they like to avoid any type of challenge and thus only making squads that can 1-shot the bosses so they dont actually have to interact with any in-game mechanics. That said, what it keeping you from making your own G16/nv3 squad, that may struggle a little more? Eventually you'll learn how all the bosses work and you can teach other people how to run the instance.

While I think its stupid all the r999+12 ppl are only making ''1-shot'' squads, simply out of fear of failing when they dont 1-shot the boss. The burden is not on them to teach you or include you in their run, the burden is on yourself to learn how to do it, I am sure there's loads of people that feel like you, and I am sure you can quickly fill a squad with them and do a run yourself.

Ive made a guide to help people that cant 1-shot the bosses, to show them what happens next and what they can do about it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgeUtNS6UTU

Its not even close to perfect but perhaps it can be of help to know what you are getting into. We also plan to record a run using G16/nv3 characters only whenever the next 2x drops comes around, but you can expect it to look exactly like in the video, except a little bit slower.

----------------------

Also for people worrying it'll take forever, our first few runs took a couple hours, but now our runs take ~25 minutes, and we only have 4 people that actually deal damage in our squad as every else is our alts or healers. So with a G16/nv3 squad I cant possibly imagine it taking much longer than 45 minutes.

shade13 · April 2016

dingo488 wrote: »

While I think its stupid all the r999+12 ppl are only making ''1-shot'' squads, simply out of fear of failing when they dont 1-shot the boss.

Or out of wish to finish faster becasue not everyone can afford to sit in game 24/7.

cyberomega45 · April 2016

Honestly, I don't have the time to spend farming UP, because I work full time and play this game with my wife. The one time I did participate I was begged to tank the final boss on my g16+10 barb with 56k hp. The cleric never healed me when the boss was using its cone attack, so I burned over 1 million hp in charms. Idk, all that just so people can have a uber OP weapon. I play this game to relax and have fun, I wish everyone who spams UP the best.

ballenato · April 2016

cyberomega45 said:
Honestly, I don't have the time to spend farming UP, because I work full time and play this game with my wife. The one time I did participate I was begged to tank the final boss on my g16+10 barb with 56k hp. The cleric never healed me when the boss was using its cone attack, so I burned over 1 million hp in charms. Idk, all that just so people can have a uber OP weapon. I play this game to relax and have fun, I wish everyone who spams UP the best.

It's because u have low defenses.
That boss deals 500 - 2.5k damage on me, it's np at all

But it also depends on how long it took your squad to that kill boss. I've bene there for full boss stage, but lately it's getting MUCH faster

kartter · April 2016

Hi,

Personally would like 2 or 3 item per day atleast.
From now what i see on wc , most squads searching ppls who knows the guide already -> many ppl who didnt ran it not really have a chance to run it .
If we get more item for enter we could run guide runs few times ( atleast me. )

ballenato · April 2016

ballenato said:

cyberomega45 said:
Honestly, I don't have the time to spend farming UP, because I work full time and play this game with my wife. The one time I did participate I was begged to tank the final boss on my g16+10 barb with 56k hp. The cleric never healed me when the boss was using its cone attack, so I burned over 1 million hp in charms. Idk, all that just so people can have a uber OP weapon. I play this game to relax and have fun, I wish everyone who spams UP the best.
It's because u have low defenses.
That boss deals 500 - 2.5k damage on me, it's np at all But it also depends on how long it took your squad to that kill boss. I've been there for full boss stage, but lately it's getting MUCH faster

And, i agree with the OP. Squads are being very selective/picky cause they rather do a quick spawnkill or quickill run, than doing each stage on every boss. Regardless of this, doesnt mean it has to be full r9s3 run but, the Nirvanas3 classes that u can take are very limited, but those buffs are very well taken, invigor, DB seeker debuff... But u need a minimun of survivality, aka, +7 refinement or higher, and have those passive defenses very high (or maxed), with the passive HP on a good lvl as well.
It is a very challenging instance, it can be done with non r9 ppl but, it will take longer, and bosses have a very strong aoe.

And about squads being picky, i went with one from my server since the day 2 and we've been going together since then... and it's usually same people, around the same hour.. I like it cause it feels comfortable and we know how to run the instance (30-45min run or so). We didnt really know each other before, and since then we i became friends with them...
But the downside part is, i cant help my friends or factionmates. Sometimes i'd like to run just to teach them, no matter if it fails but. If i do, i'd miss a day of UP

It's a sad story indeed, they should increase the amount of entry passes per day.

tetraem007 · April 2016

If I would be able to speak with the responsible bosses and developers in China, I would make many suggestions.

One point would be: we need more farmable stuff for the F2P community.
Primoridial Blood, Barbaric Blood, G17 mats and many other stuff should be tradable.

There is almost nothing left over for the farmers.

NW, FSP, BH100s, that's it. Even just one person spamming HH runs for coins would saturate the market of a whole server very fast. Since you need billions of coins for endgame gear it has become impossible to reach anything if you want to play for free.

I got my R9 when NW started. Because I was patient and farmed for others. In return I got R9 for free.

Imo now it should be the same again. What we need for this game is freedom and capitalism. Communism (everything get's the same quest reward and is not allowed to sell or buy) doesn't work well. Monopolism (only PWE is allowed to sell items in boutique), doesn't work very well too.

My other big point would be: Packs cause inflation because of Perfect Tokens of Best Luck. They should take away the option to exchange two of them for a Ten Million Big Note.

Whelp... If I would only have some influence.. Since I don't have any.. nothing will change and threads like this are just a waste of time

cyberomega45 · April 2016

ballenato said:

cyberomega45 said:
Honestly, I don't have the time to spend farming UP, because I work full time and play this game with my wife. The one time I did participate I was begged to tank the final boss on my g16+10 barb with 56k hp. The cleric never healed me when the boss was using its cone attack, so I burned over 1 million hp in charms. Idk, all that just so people can have a uber OP weapon. I play this game to relax and have fun, I wish everyone who spams UP the best.
It's because u have low defenses.
That boss deals 500 - 2.5k damage on me, it's np at all But it also depends on how long it took your squad to that kill boss. I've bene there for full boss stage, but lately it's getting MUCH faster

Never realized 48k pdef and 20k mdef base was low defense

chary · April 2016

I will say one thing: this instance has made me fall in love with demon res all over again.

tricksie · April 2016

ballenato wrote: »

Honestly, I don't have the time to spend farming UP, because I work full time and play this game with my wife. The one time I did participate I was begged to tank the final boss on my g16+10 barb with 56k hp. The cleric never healed me when the boss was using its cone attack, so I burned over 1 million hp in charms. Idk, all that just so people can have a uber OP weapon. I play this game to relax and have fun, I wish everyone who spams UP the best.

It's because u have low defenses.
That boss deals 500 - 2.5k damage on me, it's np at all But it also depends on how long it took your squad to that kill boss. I've bene there for full boss stage, but lately it's getting MUCH faster

It's not about **** defenses... it's about the Aurora blast that stacks. I was in an UP squad on my psychic and the Clerics (yes we had 2) refused to throw any heal on the barb, thus stacking 80k in that ****. The barb burned a ton of charm because they didn't do the job their class is intended to do.

blazerboy · April 2016

Personally I think this instance is fun for the challenge but my only issue is maybe chill with the calligraphy. I know for some of you its np but for me its like this isn't a challenge more like an annoyance the rest are pretty legit. Also the final boss the fires make it lower please that nonsense is annoying auto kill im fine with but if you dont double jump right time you're cooked which really stinks. Otherwise Im perfectly fine with how hard the instance is

Squads are selective? Alright well question if you aren't r9rr +10 bare minimum which isnt even that hard if you farm I should know did two chars like that. But if thats not the set standard why in the world are you feeling entitled to g17? Just because its farm only doesnt mean younare entitled to the best gear guys

What Im basically saying is you have to do your time in the lower grades to graduate to the big leagues. Personally I find it absurd people boasted "I wont get r9 wep g17 is 100% farmable as if assuming you could do it cheap and a timely manner. Gear is not a right its a privilege to those who work and come up for it. Not "I logged in did a couple dailies I should be entitled to the exact same thing everyone else have". Yeah thats completely fair, come now the only notable complaint its the amount of entries

angellicdeity · April 2016

Coming back to this thread - I'd like to keep the discussion less focused on attacking eachother.

My character is R9RR +12/JoSD with a full 20-Aptitude 8 stat star chart and a full Nuema Portal Card Set. My Physical Attack unbuffed is 59179-68706. I have no problems getting squads when they're looking for people. That said, once I am done my single instance for the day I am unable to help anyone else out. There are a lot of people on my server wanting to do UP but don't get invites because they're the wrong class - or because everyone who set out to do it for the day has already done it.

That is why I think this expansion is doomed to fail. Selective about gear? That's not new - FSJ has been like that for a long time. The difference is people are not limited to 1 attempt - so people are a little more forgiving when it comes to creating a party or running with a bad one. There are a limited number of barbs who can run a UP. If one of them is done for the day that is one less available to help anyone else out.

blazerboy · April 2016

Yes of course, I fully agreed but those who complain about the gear issue have no earned the right nor done the time to feel as they are entitled

vertgod · April 2016

Isn't that why the initial quest gave 4 items, so people could do trial and error and learn the instance. Once people know the instance, it being one entrance per day isn't really a big deal. Though it would be nice if, like Flowsilver Place, you could enter as many times as you wanted, you just didn't get the instance quest past the first run.

Though, I believe G17 taking so long to farm is a tactic to keep people motivated to play the game. Before the update, a lot of regular players were already endgame and had nothing to aim for. When you look at it from that stand point, it makes sense that the instance has a one-entrance-per-day limitation.

koudelkamorgan · April 2016

I've found it to be the opposite. Many people I know quit the moment g17 was announced, and many more after seeing what they would have to put themselves through to get it once it arrived.

I'm ignoring it personally, just like R9. I am playing the game more now than I had been thanks to the home stuff, and that is purely for the home stuff and the skill upgrades.

The lv5 workshop quests in particular will see people back in SoT Aba and TT lol.

tuttle · April 2016

Nirvana is also in the level 5 workshop quest list lol, had to do it on my new and old main both yesterday.

As far as Uncharted (UP, UCP, what's our acronym here?) goes, I *WILL* take non-r9s3 players, as long as they listen, and fit the role list I am looking for, if the squad isn't going to be capable of spark killing, I want a proper squad with buffs, debuffs, etc.

Barb (tank for last boss - I won't bring a non-r9 barb, since it'll be hard to hold aggro)
Cleric (obvious - also won't bring a non-r9 cleric, as we need a cleric who can stay alive)
Mystic (invigorate is great, res buff)
Seeker (debuffs are amazing)
BM (HF/GS)
Veno (purges, amps)
Storm (their magic debuffs...)
Dusk (buffs - very optional)

Beyong those 8 its a crapshoot, I very rarely bring a psy, try to avoid doubling up on classes

Uncharted Paradise - Expansion seems doomed to fail

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