New Skills in the Next Expansion

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  • kittyempressa
    kittyempressa Posts: 268 Arc User
    blazerboy wrote: »
    Correct me if im wrong @asterelle but 200% more wep damage is not exactly twice as much damge. SS combo was viable BEFORE defense charms now its just used in a support scenario. Demon seekers hit quite a bit less and alot less flexible double purify is 1 skill out of a multitude of skills this isnt a sage and demon veno arguement where the main reason sage venos are there for aoe purge

    You're correct about that 200% weapon damage. It's 30% more base damage for pure str. r9rr-seekers. About 20-25% more pure damage when skillspamming.

    How come sage seekers hit quite a bit harder? Difference from weapon masteries ish 15% weapon damage which ish pretty much nothing these days. Or you mean those bonus attack on some sage skills? Nurfed to nominal effect. Sage AN gives 3 more def. levels to use in SS-QPQ? Demon has 2 att.+def. level stronger Soulsever-debuff. Sage has stronger shatters? Doesn't work in PVP, yo. Demon has better CC-skills? That's true, yo. 50% tidal for 8 secs instead of 100% certain double-puri? Latter wins.
    ​​
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  • limonazza
    limonazza Posts: 332 Arc User
    u sure its weapon damage and not base damage?
    and still if we consider a seeker with 750 str, which his damage multiplier is 5x, 200% weapon damage added is 40% damage more with no drawback​​
  • kittyempressa
    kittyempressa Posts: 268 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    limonazza wrote: »
    u sure its weapon damage and not base damage?
    and still if we consider a seeker with 750 str, which his damage multiplier is 5x, 200% weapon damage added is 40% damage more with no drawback

    It ish 200% weapon damage.

    Btw, you forgot to count in sword mastery. So it's 5,9x or 5,75x, not 5x. And many skills have weapon damage and additional damage bonuses further nerfing the effectiveness. Ofc auto-attack has no drawbacks like that...but if you auto-attack as a seeker, Kitty puts a "NOOB"-stamp on your forehead unless you're APS-seeker in APS-gears.
    ​​
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  • sylenthunder
    sylenthunder Support Guru Posts: 3,061 Community Moderator
    IIRC, "200% weapon damage" only modifies the base weapon numbers. It does not take into account other bonuses to base damage.​​
  • limonazza
    limonazza Posts: 332 Arc User
    kitty forgot seeker primal skills deal 110% base damage which will scale with the 200% weapon damage added to the base damage

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  • demansfairy
    demansfairy Posts: 456 Arc User
    750 str is a 6x multiplier isn't it? (1+750/150=1+5=6) .
    Also I though wep damage included ALL bonuses ( as in + phy/magic attack from rings, cards, wep, attack charms) since your multiplier also multiples those numbers as well.
    full +12 SB, currently lv 105 105 105
  • kittyempressa
    kittyempressa Posts: 268 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    limonazza wrote: »
    kitty forgot seeker primal skills deal 110% base damage which will scale with the 200% weapon damage added to the base damage

    limonazza poses his forehead on kitty's forehead and now you have that stamp too ohay matey egg-1.gif

    And you forgot that what you just mentioned is multiplying base damage, not modifying the base damage itself. The "stat-based wpn damage" to "buff-based wpn damage"-ratio will stay the same unless you specifically modify either of those before summing them. And in this game you can't modify either, except by having more stat or more/stronger boofs which aren't the case here.
    750 str is a 6x multiplier isn't it? (1+750/150=1+5=6) .
    Also I though wep damage included ALL bonuses ( as in + phy/magic attack from rings, cards, wep, attack charms) since your multiplier also multiples those numbers as well.

    Demans ish correct, Kitty got a bit derailed by that limonazza's "750 str=5x multiplier" earlier and forgot there's a 1x multiplier before stat-based, weapon mastery and buff multipliers kick in.

    So let's do some math to see how much the ultibuff accurately affects 750 str sage seeker's damage.

    The base damage without the ultibuff would be 1+750/150+0,9=1+5+0,9=6,9 x weapon damage.
    The base damage with the ultibuff would be 6,9+2=8,9 x weapon damage.
    Thus ultibuff gives 8,9/6,9-1=1,29-1=0,29= 29% more base damage.

    Kitty could imagine a Primal'd seeker using Gravel Blade a lot. It does 110% of base physical damage plus 100% of weapon damage plus 1650.
    Let's see how much effect the ultibuff would have on it. Btw, assuming the seeker has 3300 average weapon damage here to keep off some decimals. That's something a R9rr+10-12 seeker with good cards might have.

    1650 additional damage ish half of 3300, thus 50% weapon damage in this case.
    Without ultibuff GB's total damage will be 1,1x6,9+1+0,5=7,59+1+0,5=9,09 x weapon damage.
    With ultibuff GB's total damage will be 1,1x8,9+1+0,5=9,79+1+0,5= 11,29 x weapon damage.
    The difference ish 11,29/9,09-1=1,24-1=0,24=24% more damage with ultibuff.

    So Kitty's original estimations ( It's 30% more base damage for pure str. r9rr-seekers. About 20-25% more pure damage when skillspamming) are correct (though those numbers Kitty just quickly threw together in her head).

    *washes the stamp off her forehead and stamps another on limonazza's forehead*
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  • blazerboy
    blazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    At this point in game @kittyempressa that 15% weapon damage you speak of as useless actually makes quite a bit of difference why else do you think demon seekers do not even really exist endgame not on Harshlands not on Morai from what I see not on DawnsGlory its just not viable the only thing it has over sage was Ion spike, unfetter you could go both ways with this because 4 sec anti stun saves me ALOT the puri is nice but most of the times if im debuffed its some sort of a stun lets see unfetter save me and half the time I depend on a debuff here and there to quid like amp or HF/DG so really demon?... Not sure what you meant demon is even a comparison to sage when it has what 2 skills out of a entire spectrum that are exactly decent? Also I believe 15% wep damage gets added onto by things such as atk lvl,spirit,penetrations ect ect yeah 15% more damage doesnt mean anything ok...... Do you even Seeker bro... Atleast @limonazza had a arguement this is pure rubbish....
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  • kittyempressa
    kittyempressa Posts: 268 Arc User
    blazerboy wrote: »
    At this point in game @kittyempressa that 15% weapon damage you speak of as useless actually makes quite a bit of difference why else do you think demon seekers do not even really exist endgame not on Harshlands not on Morai from what I see not on DawnsGlory its just not viable the only thing it has over sage was Ion spike, unfetter you could go both ways with this because 4 sec anti stun saves me ALOT the puri is nice but most of the times if im debuffed its some sort of a stun lets see unfetter save me and half the time I depend on a debuff here and there to quid like amp or HF/DG so really demon?... Not sure what you meant demon is even a comparison to sage when it has what 2 skills out of a entire spectrum that are exactly decent? Also I believe 15% wep damage gets added onto by things such as atk lvl,spirit,penetrations ect ect yeah 15% more damage doesnt mean anything ok...... Do you even Seeker bro... Atleast @limonazza had a arguement this is pure rubbish....

    Unbuffed that 15% makes whole 2% difference in base damage, and even less when using skills due to reasons Kitty explained in previous post (though Kitty understands if it's hard to understand, numbers and simple math are so difficult). Btw, other multipliers that multiply base damage (like skill dmg passive, atk level, spirit) don't make the difference between base damages any less or more. That's because (R x Y)/ ((R - U) x Y) = R / (R - U). For ex. (1500 x 1,3) / ((1500 - 500) x 1,3) = 1950 / 1300 = 1,5 . And 1500 / 1000 = 1,5. Simple, isn't it?

    And if you have any decent debuffers against you, they surely don't go throwing all their debuffs on you at once if you're a seeker. Those puris can be quite a lifesaver if you QPQ HF off just to have veno come debuffing you right after.
    Kitty can tell you from experience that if you use BA's tidal, veno can just wait 'til it's over and debuff you while you have only genie/spark left to defend against it. And veno can cancel purge if you spark just to purge the spark too. If you use anti-debuff from genie, you can't use genie again anytime soon. And veno can just wait over it, too.
    When as demon seeker you could have the veno throw in her amp+myriads, then puri them off and puri again if the veno manages to proc demon Ironwood on you. This after using QPQ on HF 10 secs earlier. As long as the debuff you're getting isn't CC-related, you have no real defence against it as sage after you've used QPQ. And those puris pretty much give immunity to most debuffs(excluding CCs) for their CD and those debuffs tend to have at least 15 sec effective CD.

    Stuns aren't the real threat if there's no other debuffs on you. But other debuffs can get you killed in a matter of secs even without stuns. If you also played a veno (well) you'd know that.

    Btw, Kitty's not a bro but a sis and she does seeker. On 4 seekers. And they say she does it quite well.
    ​​
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  • blazerboy
    blazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    thats a extremely specific scenario and that happens alot in pvp right? But okay @kittyempressa... and a whole 2% alright thats why majority of people who do any creditable form of damage on most class is sage except veno ofc demon iron wood op yo!! Your arguement on seeker is weak as hell man... First of all okay yeah if quid is on CD yea doesnt stop other amps a veno can do but demon Blade affinity have you read it 2 sec longer really over the tidal that actually can avoid negative status? You completely lost that arguement... Okay lets say you are purge and amp by a veno chances are the first shot wont not kill you unless your gear is not worth a darn to even pvp to which I say have fun in PVE but even if you are puri from the amp you still are purged w.o any anti stun skill all it takes is the veno to do thier stun skill well anyone for that mater to stun you focus for a instant dead atleast anti stun unless a immediate BM > Barb > DB > SB immediately hops on thier paralyze skill you can get away with enough distance to rebuff and get back in the fight my fav troll moment when Im purged unfetter kite rebuff back in the game lets see you purify save you while you are immediately stunned and focused hate to break it to you jsod or not if you are purged at this point in the game w.o any defense you're gone ..... Whoever told you you seeker unfortunately was either lying or a scrub who has more gear then brains for you to find that a compliment on those tactics...

    BTW Puri does not give you immunity after its casted so as soon as you use it you can immediately be stunned afterwards focused while purged and pop god Read the skills before you type Rubish like that the hell... Your only accurate point was demon unfetter can save you from ironwood proc or fireproc thats literally it sage gives atleast an anti stun and tidal how is demon less CC able when it doesnt have a single defense for that + sage has longer stun time for void step demon cant cc a damn thing jesus....
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  • limonazza
    limonazza Posts: 332 Arc User
    so 30% right? i said 40 w\o doing maths? close enough? egg-2.gif

    any drawbacks?
    no drawbacks, instead seeker gets def buffs at same time

    seeker ult > wizard ult egg-1.gif​​
  • sylenthunder
    sylenthunder Support Guru Posts: 3,061 Community Moderator
    Guys, this thread is starting to get off-topic again.....​​
  • blazerboy
    blazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    @limonazza I will give you that but slowly over the course of time since primal seekers got pooped on to the point many dont consider us a asset in tw lol but I will give you that yeah no drawbacks but honestly wiz 50% damage intake wonder if registers as a debuff and if it can puri spellled off to which i call gg lol
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  • limonazza
    limonazza Posts: 332 Arc User
    blazerboy wrote: »
    @limonazza I will give you that but slowly over the course of time since primal seekers got pooped on to the point many dont consider us a asset in tw lol but I will give you that yeah no drawbacks but honestly wiz 50% damage intake wonder if registers as a debuff and if it can puri spellled off to which i call gg lol

    i hope!
    skillset wise wizard ult would've been better on seeker, since qpq the 50% debuff

    wanmei pls egg-6.gif​​
  • blazerboy
    blazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    limonazza said:



    blazerboy wrote: »

    @limonazza I will give you that but slowly over the course of time since primal seekers got pooped on to the point many dont consider us a asset in tw lol but I will give you that yeah no drawbacks but honestly wiz 50% damage intake wonder if registers as a debuff and if it can puri spellled off to which i call gg lol


    i hope!

    skillset wise wizard ult would've been better on seeker, since qpq the 50% debuff



    wanmei pls egg-6.gif​​

    WTB trade!? :D
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  • kittyempressa
    kittyempressa Posts: 268 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    blazerboy wrote: »
    thats a extremely specific scenario and that happens alot in pvp right? But okay @kittyempressa... and a whole 2% alright thats why majority of people who do any creditable form of damage on most class is sage except veno ofc demon iron wood op yo!! Your arguement on seeker is weak as hell man...

    First of all, Kitty's no man. She's a lady. Second, casters have 5% stronger skill damage mastery as sage so no wonder sage casters hit hard. But. Demon barbs have far higher average DPH (demon BO makes the difference), archers usually demon QS-pewpew to kill any worse-geared people around, demon BM's have longer-lasting HF+crit-proc on GS...that's some examples of demons hitting harder. And no worries, that 15% difference becomes even less than 2% on most pure damage-built r9rr-melees. Spirit, attack/def. levels, even penetrates matter far more these days.

    First of all okay yeah if quid is on CD yea doesnt stop other amps a veno can do but demon Blade affinity have you read it 2 sec longer really over the tidal that actually can avoid negative status? You completely lost that arguement...

    Just...of what use ish getting debuffed 4 secs later when you'll get to feel the full strenght of those debuffs anyway (it doesn't need to be demon Ironwood to successfully get someone killed in mass-PVP). Only morons go aiming to debuff seekers when they have BA-tidal on.

    Okay lets say you are purge and amp by a veno chances are the first shot wont not kill you unless your gear is not worth a darn to even pvp to which I say have fun in PVE but even if you are puri from the amp you still are purged w.o any anti stun skill all it takes is the veno to do thier stun skill...

    Lucky Scarab hardly lasts enough to channel next skill to halfway and it's kind of waste to use ParaNova on a lonely seeker. Unless you have a BM, DB or SB stunning you when you're being ganked by like 5 peoples at once, stuns aren't that much of a threat and even then it takes an eternity to kill an r9rr+12 JOSD seeker, purged or not if not debuffed.

    ...well anyone for that mater to stun you focus for a instant dead atleast anti stun unless a immediate BM > Barb > DB > SB immediately hops on thier paralyze skill you can get away with enough distance to rebuff and get back in the fight my fav troll moment when Im purged unfetter kite rebuff back in the game lets see you purify save you while you are immediately stunned and focused hate to break it to you jsod or not if you are purged at this point in the game w.o any defense you're gone ..... even sooner if you let all the debuffs land on you instead of being able to purify them when they land. If you can puri the debuffs off in 2 secs (like you can with Demon Unfetter) they get to affect just those 2 secs, instead of full 9-15 secs when sage's tidal is gone. Sage's Tidal: 4 secs immune, 9-15 secs debuffed. Demon's purify: 2 secs debuffed, 15-30 secs immune (because powerful debuffs aren't spammable). If you have amp+myriads+EP+TM-debuffs on you for full duration...you're most likely dead by the time they'd expire. BM's GS+TM-combo ish almost as dangerous(that devours about 40-60% of you defence). Kitty's seen seekers and BMs survive almost anything purged...until they got debuffed by a veno resulting in them dropping in 3 secs. Without stun-lock.

    Whoever told you you seeker unfortunately was either lying or a scrub who has more gear then brains for you to find that a compliment on those tactics...

    BTW Puri does not give you immunity after its casted so as soon as you use it you can immediately be stunned afterwards focused while purged and pop god. Unless your enemies have someone to keep you completely stunlocked (without 0,2 sec gap between CCs) you can puri the debuff-combo off you soon enough and your enemies can't debuff you again anytime right away 'cause CDs. Insta-cast. Works even in situations when QPQ's taking too long to channel.
    Read the skills before you type Rubish like that the hell... Your only accurate point was demon unfetter can save you from ironwood proc or fireproc thats literally it sage gives atleast an anti stun and tidal how is demon less CC able when it doesnt have a single defense for that + sage has longer stun time for void step demon cant cc a damn thing jesus....except longer stun on Parchedblade-mark, longer immobilize on NSW-mark, immobilize on QPQ making it a pseudo-stun, super-long immobilize on demon Heartseeker...And what defence sage has against CCs? 8 secs of anti-stun and 4 secs of 50% tidal. Once they're gone...GL.

    Btw, those arguments about demon seeker being more vulnerable to stuns than sages become useless when we get those skill updates. Both cultis get 2 10-sec anti-stuns and Kitty's arguments on demon Unfetter's puri become even more potential as by then the stuns aren't much of an issue but debuffs will be, especially with many classes getting GoF-equivalent and thus making those def. red./dmg inc. debuffs even more lethal.​​
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  • blazerboy
    blazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    Im not even ganna attempt to read this for the simple fact im not ganna read this 3rd person PoV and try to understand your english while straining my eyes to read this red text when you can be a normal human and not do all that bullcrap @kittyempressa this entire arguement was backing 1 skill a puri when the rest are far inferior ok uh huh and i know you did not try to argue parchblade which almost never proc which is why people made skills like gravelblade,glowblade,windblade you know seeker skills based on what you read clearly not in actual pvp...

    takes an eternity to kill an r9rr+12 JOSD seeker, purged or not if not debuffed'
    If your squad struggles killing this then your squad sucks eggs then im not full +12 but my orns +12 and armor are +11 with jsod, and once Im purged im mincemeat hell the full r9rr +12 jsod seekers I fight get wrecked as soon as focus happens along with purge
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  • hogwarts123
    hogwarts123 Posts: 66 Arc User
    Can anyone confirm if they are going to release the new veno pet( or confirm if there is one) before the skills come out or is that just going to be a grey area like most of the ulti skills? >3> Also I'm sure all the classes that don't have them want a chan. Aoe, so why is pwi making these skills that all have annoying drawbacks when they could just fufill all of our fantasies and give us chan. Aoes or(for the classes that have them) make them a little stronger.


  • hiyoga789
    hiyoga789 Posts: 39 Arc User
    Ello,The new assassin skills caught my attention.. I have a gut feeling that these skills are gonna be multi hit skills just like elimination and lifehunter .I think this way because, rising dragon strike and spell cutter have decreased channeling time yet loads of additional damage, almost equal or stronger than sage earthrift.We can say the same for condensed thorn, I mean these skills are strong enough to randomly 1 shot AA and LA targets with these upgrades.
  • teikiatsu11
    teikiatsu11 Posts: 98 Arc User
    The new skills for blademasters look interesting. I'd like to get a better translation for the ultimate for BM's but not sure if anyone here can/wants to try and properly translate. The other skills seem neat, revamped Reel In is nice to see, since DB's have a superior version currently it will make BM's Reel In seem less like a joke compared to a DB's. Roar of the Pride disarming all nearby targets is cool but also seems like an odd change, at least to me it seems odd. Still it will be helpful when fighting casters and killing people using def lvl weapons. Drake Ray's change is interesting but not very much of a boost and the secondary effect if it is boosted range I'm interested to see how that will work out.
  • chary
    chary Posts: 850 Arc User
    Can anyone confirm if they are going to release the new veno pet( or confirm if there is one) before the skills come out or is that just going to be a grey area like most of the ulti skills? >3> Also I'm sure all the classes that don't have them want a chan. Aoe, so why is pwi making these skills that all have annoying drawbacks when they could just fufill all of our fantasies and give us chan. Aoes or(for the classes that have them) make them a little stronger.

    Once again, probably not a new battle pet and need to have someone that plays CN actually upload vid of how it works.
    The new skills for blademasters look interesting. I'd like to get a better translation for the ultimate for BM's but not sure if anyone here can/wants to try and properly translate. The other skills seem neat, revamped Reel In is nice to see, since DB's have a superior version currently it will make BM's Reel In seem less like a joke compared to a DB's. Roar of the Pride disarming all nearby targets is cool but also seems like an odd change, at least to me it seems odd. Still it will be helpful when fighting casters and killing people using def lvl weapons. Drake Ray's change is interesting but not very much of a boost and the secondary effect if it is boosted range I'm interested to see how that will work out.

    The aoe disarm is definitely due to the new g17 weps. Will be more important than ever to have good BMs/venos on your side in pvp.​​
  • limonazza
    limonazza Posts: 332 Arc User
    hiyoga789 wrote: »
    Ello,The new assassin skills caught my attention.. I have a gut feeling that these skills are gonna be multi hit skills just like elimination and lifehunter .I think this way because, rising dragon strike and spell cutter have decreased channeling time yet loads of additional damage, almost equal or stronger than sage earthrift.We can say the same for condensed thorn, I mean these skills are strong enough to randomly 1 shot AA and LA targets with these upgrades.

    they wont be multi hit skills since the cast times are almost insta​​
  • blazerboy
    blazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    My question is with these new skills will we see more pvp because alot of classes get new advantages to switch up their technique and redefine rolls in pvp. It really eludes me why people fully gear characters full R9rr +12 JSOD and refuse to do anything but TW/NW like seriously you put all that time or money into a character to PvE which is stupid easy endgame what the heck.... Okay I'll buy a Ferrari and leave it for people to look at and just drive it like 3 times a weak... Simpy rediculous... To each his own I know its their character and they have 100% the right to refuse PVP BUT we all know that fully endgame person whining and complaining the game is too easy and boring but I bet you never catch him whitename outside SZ mixing it up with the best of them come on.....
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  • chary
    chary Posts: 850 Arc User
    The weapon procs will probably completely kill 1v1 pvp. Or at least I don't see how anyone is gonna kill anyone 1v1 unless someone gets extremely unlucky with def procs.​​
  • limonazza
    limonazza Posts: 332 Arc User
    unless new def procs have stupid chances like 0.x %​​
  • blazerboy
    blazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    1v1 LITERALLY was not how the game was even designed to be played so fine with this
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  • shopcheese
    shopcheese Posts: 758 Arc User
    or maybe for 1v1 you just need to be a class that can disarm QQ
    Either ways I'm always looking forward for new stuff. New skills gonna be fun. Will they have to be farmed through the housing system as well?
  • catgirldesu
    catgirldesu Fluffy Fox Posts: 993 Arc User
    Seeing as the new house system will be this big thing, I assume you farm the skills through it or the new dungeon. It doesn't seem to be related to the Primal World at all, and I think the skill forge is located somewhere in Archosaur. There was a video floating around somewhere.
    ​​
  • beast21g
    beast21g Posts: 631 Arc User
    ballenato said:

    Barb skills getting an upgrade are
    Flesh Ream (just more damage)
    Slam (more damage plus a debuff that reduces 100% attack from targets, idk if it's phys or magic, or both)
    Bestial Rage (more chi per hit taken, plus upgraded shield, something changes on the shield mechanic but, i don't understand it)
    And the ultimate skill, it's a new tiger form skill, 12 meters aoe damage skill, with extra damage based on our max HP with a % chance to cause paralysis.

    so all other classes gets so many skills barbs get 4?