PWI - Here is your coin sink

This is pure **** right here. Please take in account that not all players on this game have coins in the billions and hundreds of millions. Firstly people keep calling for coin sink but lets be realistic, not every player have coins on this game, some who took advantage of botting/Culti, have multi accounts doing smoke, fsp and bh maybe be rich but not all of us. Search the threads i think the best idea that i heard was to bring back coins and give us an npc which sells us boutique items. These items can even be bound to character it doesnt matter, but an idea like yours would like many before benefit only the rich. You probably just have a crappy star chart and looking for more opportunities to change that. Dont get me wrong im not blasting you i just get annoyed with this sinking term. You cannot keep sinking and sinking, at the end of the day only the Cser and the rule breakers will remain. On TT server the biggest Cser runs around in primal world with around 10 or more alts behind him. What they need to do is to stop sinking coins and get rid of the people who break the rules to get these huge amount of coins. Im hoping our new Cm @thenamesdomino actually look into this stuff.

This would just create another advantage for people who botted their way or crank up prices by a ton, they could just horoscope until they have a roll they like and then don't bother with it anymore.
So no this way of a coinsink is terrible.​​

scruncy wrote: »

It seems some people dont get the concept of a coin sink. It will always favour the rich people ,regardless how they made their coins. The important thing is to get them out of the system and not just trade them from player to player.
And if you say this is terrible, I am sure you got a way better idea.
Bring it on, lets hear it.

Coinsinks will always favour rich people? Do you even know what a coinsink is supposed to be? Crafting fee. Repair fee. Those are coinsinks.
What you are suggesting could apply to any item. You could also say "Let's throw in some JoSD / Deity stones in a shop at some price, it is a coin sink only for rich people".

That's not how coinsinks work.

Do I have an idea for a coinsink? No, because there is literally nothing else in here besides crafting fee and repair fee that you could create a sink on, and I don't consider buying items a coin sink, specially if it can possibly benefit someone in any way, which crafting fee and repair fee don't.

I'd say increase repair fees and crafting fee, but then you'd have a lot more people complaining because they wouldn't be able to afford it.

Maybe have some daily quest(s) that require you to buy a special quest item in order to complete said quest. Maybe the quest can give some increased reward on xp/spirit/vitae/whatever.
Then comes again the issue of BUT MUH QUEST REWARD ITEM.

It's not that easy to create a decent coin sink people will actually be willing to use​​

It does look like a good idea and at the same time has less value than the one from boutique (that actually adds xp).

@dblazen1: Would say you have a wrong idea of what a coin sink is... I think coin sink is only meant to sell you an item/service, and removes the coins necessary for it from the game economy.

Increasing craft/repair fees would also be a coin sink, but you don't get any improvement from what exists atm (well, maybe some improved qq...)

u want a coin sink, put in a 1% coin tax per 24 hours on catshops. either coin will go down or the number of shops. win win either way. ( and a minimum (not fee) of 100k coin to be eligible to open up/stay open shop so ppl dont bypass it with big notes )​​

Imo it's a good idea. Even some boutique items should be purchasable by coins.

E.g. make Ocean Orbs purchasable 4x per year (every time for 1 week) for 60m coins each.
People will sell their gold to buy them with coins (= people will charge gold).
And we would get rid of trillions of coin this way.

If 1 Ocean Orb costs 25 gold and 1 gold costs 4m coins ==> 100m coins per Ocean Orb.
Make it MUCH cheaper and many people will charge gold to get coins + some others will get rid of many coins which they already have.

What about the ppl with full +12 full JoSD main characters? Sell random S avatars for 200m coins each. Specific S avatars for 1 billion coins each.

Everything has to be cheaper than in boutique (I'd calculate with 3m per gold). PWE might sell less in boutique, but people would charge more gold to sell it in AH = the economy would stabilize.

The big CSers or merchants won't spend much for consumable items, that's just a dream of the poor people.

If nothing else helps.. create signs with street names. And give the option to buy the names (it should cost something like 20 billions per street name).
E.g. One Main road in Archosaur on Twilight Tempel server: Kyrill Street.
South site: Horaah's posing corner.
Lane in Village of the Lost: Hidden DrakeKhan

jadasia wrote: »

-snip-

The value of the rich players coins would also go up the more it is scarce, and thus the more value it holds. What would instead happen is there would be an increase in the base-level of gear, which would mean they'd benefit from having more competitive matches. People with willing to put in more time and effort will always hold an advantage. Not just in terms of gear that is cash-shop dependent, like s cards. But also in the sense that they will likely be better at the game. Those who rely on their advantage from spending money, would still be able to afford better gear, especially cash shop dependent gear.​​

@heero200 i dont know if being an hero was your intention with your name but i appluad you sir . Thank you

aeternusdoleo wrote: »

It's a lot easier to be a complete noob in +12 gear - having just bought your way to the top, then to be a F2P "grinded every bonus I could get" +7 toon, who plays daily and intensively for hours a day. I can speak from experience in that. PWI has made bypassing putting an effort in this game by buying your way ahead of anyone not willing or able to pay, virtually a necessity. Even in time pressure - if you want to build up your character, then simply doing the daily primals, morai, factionbase, Flowsilver Palace and bounty hunter amounts to two hours of play at least. Leaves less time for PvP and getting better at that, if that's your desire...

Yes, as I said only thing a coin sink would do is make those pvp people oriented grinders more competitive because they would have to spend less time grinding, and would have a better baseline of gear. It would not remove the advantage of being rich or being a cash shopper.​​

daymond said:

The OP is right, most of you have no idea how a coin sink works or what its function is.

Let me explain:
Every single week 945,000,000 coins + enough mirages to bring that to at least 1 billion enter the server. This is from TW by itself not including any other coin influx.

In addition, 1m & 5m cards etc. from daily BH, and Perfect Tokens of Best Luck bring in 5m a piece every time they spawn.

Lastly, every single item gotten from mobs, quests, WS, Lunar, and/or whatever else which is NPC'd and has a coin value brings more coins into the server.

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Say there are 2 cultures
One has food but no water, the other water but no food.
People trade regularly; food for water, water for food.

As time passes water becomes more and more plentiful for the water culture. People from their town are able to offer larger and larger amounts of water for food. Food stays the same and as it is more scarce it is more valued. Smaller amounts of food can be traded for greater and greater amounts of water. There is no shortage at all in the water supply like there is for food.

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Coins are the water.
Too many exist.
When you buy tokens to get Crab Meat, no coins disappear from the server you just hand them to somebody else.
When you buy NV3 mold service, Shards, Armors, Socket Stones, HP Charms, Dragon Orbs, anything at all from another player or shop. The coin doesn't disappear. All it does is change hands.

So more and more coin is constantly spawning into existence day after day, week by week and it isn't going anywhere. This makes gold, packs, and every single item in the game more and more valuable because the coin you use to buy it becomes worth less and less.

You WANT people to have an incentive to spend mass quantities of coin at NPCs, you WANT the exact sort of coin sink the OP described. We NEED to have something to spend our coin on at NPCs where it will disappear and not just change hands. For that to happen it MUST be something worth doing.

When less coin exists, its value will go up.
Item and Gold prices will go down.
Farming will slowly become more and more viable like it was in the past.

May be a fair point so what would you suggest. Better HP / MP pots from NPCs would that work as a coin sink?

daymond wrote: »

May be a fair point so what would you suggest. Better HP / MP pots from NPCs would that work as a coin sink?

Yes, if pots better than crab meat were put in an NPC shop that would for example help.
We've gone so far off the deep end though that just that won't be enough. We have to provide enough incentive to spend coins at NPCs to even out the amount of money flooding the servers otherwise the problem just keeps getting worse.

This is what causes inflation and raises prices of everything.
Less coin on the server = coins are more valuable and worth more = lower prices

Yeah, pretty much this. Or other boutique-only remedies or items like teleport stones, refining aids, vitae/star chart items, ect.

It needs to be optional things though. Doing something like a mega-increase to the repair fees, or any other forced spending just hurts then little guy, and has little impact on the rich.​​

In terms of a coin sink, I'm pretty sure the GMs did something a while ago where they had some kind of lottery event, where you would in-game mail them coin/big notes and there were fixed prizes for anything over a certain amount and then a super prize for the top three highest 'donations'. I think it was a S pack (guaranteed random S) or Scroll of Tome iirc.

The reason this has immediate noticeable impact is because most of the coin is held by <10% of the server, with the server merges it's only natural to see quite a significant price rise.

The ones most affected by inflation are the 'farmers', as they have a fixed coin income, whether it's from TT mats, FSP coin sales, etc their income does not increase much with inflation, so feel the pain the most from it. Merchants couldn't care less whether inflation is bad or not as long as they still have access to be able to buy gold, whether it's through AH or off world chat, they just make a margin %, increased competition is the only thing that brings down their profit margins. CSers again couldn't care less about inflation as prices rise gold value rises so they're pretty unaffected.

The way this game is heading there really isn't a whole lot to farm anymore, long gone are the Nirvana days, even in 2x there's very little to actually farm, and people really need to change their mindset about how to make money in the game, they need to merchant more and ofc this takes a bit of farming to create a pool of coin to start off, and for some that cannot run a catshop 24/7 I can understand this shift is pretty annoying.

We also have way too many people that are pretty clueless and blame CSers/Merchants for the high prices in this game, you can't even have a discussion with those kind of people that are just foaming at the mouth and have their pitchforks ready. Gold price is loosely determined by two factors, the amount of coin on the server, and the current demand for gold. If anything CSers help bring prices down, by periodically increasing the amount of gold supply available, thereby selling merchants gold cheaper than 'normal' and then those merchants can sell their items cheaper than other merchants in order to maintain the same margin.

The biggest indicator of inflation is really the high value items, for example scroll of tome, I remember when I bought one for 600m around 1 and a half years ago, this has almost tripled to ~1.6bn.

Imo the real elephant in the room here is BH rewards, it was fine when people were just doing them on their mains and a few alts, but after the 95 pill where people got insta 100 also, there are trains of alts getting coin cards. If they fix that the same as they 'fixed' botting, they will just remove the coin cards. Whereas a more appropriate fix would be to either change the BH to AEU or FSP or hell even UCH, as Snake and 3-1 are way too pill baby friendly. Now before you all shoot me for suggesting it, think about the amount of coin that is being dumped into the economy due to it and the long term effects of this on the game. If they added a farmable instance that gave tradeable Nebula dust orbs (non energy increasing) and removed BH coin cards I think people would be ok with it.


TL:DR
Coin creation: BH rewards, Tokens of Best Luck, Botting, TW rewards, Jolly Jones
Coin circulation: CSers, Merchants
Coin sink: Lel none worth mentioning

Coin sink is all well and good but could prove difficult to implement, so if we want to address the key issue of inflation we should tackle it at source, at coin creation. Remove BH coin cards/Jolly jones and replace them with a coin circulation type value reward instead, i.e. an item that has value to other players. I'd say a War Avatar Catalyst xD