New Primal passive = Genie Spark skill nerf

Shadowvzss - Harshlands

i tested on low geared barb who got 7410 mdef (64.63%) unbuffed, i used with my full dex spark skill what lower to only few hundred the defence before patch but now barb got 2379 fire def(35.98%) after same genie spark with lv 4 passive (+32% mdef)

Fissile - Archosaur

Yes it is a lot harder to kill people now. I made myself a 115 Dex genie for another 10% defense reduction. But for endgame players with buffs after undine+spark they will still have significant defenses. It would be nice if there was a genie update or new gear to get another 20-30 stat points but I don't see that happening.

At least you can still blow away other players that aren't buffed if you stack undine and spark, so there's that.

Zaniah - Raging Tide

Well, basically, they took our only window of opportunity.

With a 140 DEX genie on a 9.3rr cleric with 35kmdef self buffed with passive, it takes the fire mdef down to 17k with spark and undine combo, and per hit, it hits 5k with phoenix's breath whereas in the past it used to hit over 9k.

I consider changing genie completely and go for a str/full magic genie.
Here are my reasons:
1. Using genie spark offensively has little effect, cant ensure a kill but can ensure you die as when any sin pops his elimination and expel is not there...we are good bye.
2. Other than badge and blazing shield, not much reasoning to have a genie that has dex.

Let me know how these changes affected wizards on your server.b:shocked

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

good. MGs will have to learn that their class is more than just sutra->spark->macro->win

Zanryu - Lothranis

Wizards mad bro?

Zaniah - Raging Tide

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

Wizards mad bro?

Hell yeah we mad!

Sins got aps=dead skills

All classes dont give a nickle about our undine which does not reflect the exact amount decreased.

BMs and Barbs have unpurifiable CC that goes through IG.

I dont even know what other classes got but we got ****.

We got packs in a skill(a chance of stun/bind)

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

Zaniah - Raging Tide wrote: »

Hell yeah we mad!

Sins got aps=dead skills

All classes dont give a nickle about our undine which does not reflect the exact amount decreased.

BMs and Barbs have unpurifiable CC that goes through IG.

I dont even know what other classes got but we got ****.

We got packs in a skill(a chance of stun/bind)

errrrrrrrrrrr
undine + eruption fist brings r9rr +12 archer mdef down to near 2k

WannaBM - Archosaur

Maybe its not so bad people have less chance of being 1-shot and more chance of coming near you. You got a purify weapon after all, would be a shame if it was useless.b:chuckle

Fissile - Archosaur

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

errrrrrrrrrrr
undine + eruption fist brings r9rr +12 archer mdef down to near 2k

Yeah that is not true at all even if eruption fist purge procs. Level 7 defense passive is 56% gear value + base stats is 156% of gear value with no buffs, ignoring cards and meridians. Undine and eruption fist will reduce that to 66% of gear value. Final stat/gear value% = 100% stat = 2000/0.66 = 3030.

For your debuffed m def to be 2k, your 100% gear value would be 3k or 4700 with passives. Realistically you would have that with just a rank 9+12 ring and belt. Maybe you should put the rest of your gear on and look again.

Shadowvzss - Harshlands

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

good. MGs will have to learn that their class is more than just sutra->spark->macro->win

seems someone else must learn game mechanism more... all debuff dont reduced the def how it was writed, like udine was wrote reduce by 60% but fact if target cleric buffed then it is damn far from 60% (maybe half so 30%)

From my experience i see rarly good geared people who in nw just wait when u use spark+sutra macro's.... idk how about there but in nw mostly in 1vs1 peoples use ad/3rd spark/wing of grace/iron gurad with immune skill or with fortify/nature barrier/guardian light/tidal +deaden/disturbsoul/sometime charms if u use spark+pryo ulti/ or any cc skill with pot etc
In group fight spark work that right, but reduction absolute not that muc how peoples thing if target full buffed also only 20m range and 40 sec cooldown/42sec genie regen also

@WannaBM i am curios who was 1 hited by same geared oponent exclude if every barb role now str build like in threads there was adviced to everybody
Btw who else can counter then the barb/seekers if not wizz? i doubt harder to kill a wizz tan a psy, even our debuff nerfed with patch but this not affected that much to psy who based on non purgeable def/att lv
Somehow i really doubt a properly geared barb could be 1 hit in 1vs1, in group gank everybody could die fast exclude josd psy with white or barb with invoke

other ppl got right, if spark was unsuccesfully (people got a lil brain and use spark burst/mdef charm/pot/genie skill like most of people in 1vs1 who learned pvp a bit) then genie is on cooldown with 1 sec regen so good luck in rest of time....

Roll a wizz then check udine+any skill on +12 bm with mdef marrow on (i could tell i dealed 1.8-3k dmg and bm got 25-30k if full buffed with +12weapon and half deity shard vs full josd bm)
or on full buffed caster/seeker not against lower geared peoples then talk again about learn the class with udine what also got more reduced range than the skills + not instantly so if someone use holy patch easily in/out from range (atleast dev team if nerf it could think make same distance to udine than skills but no...)

@Fissile
Your calculation wrong, even without meridian/buff/lv0 passive primal etc my sin friend got 2.4k fire def (from 11k) after sparked him and not vit stoned so if he max passive+buffed spark let on him minimum 8k-9k firedeff or even more, he need to be lv10 mirage then i can tell (btw he use pdef neck so not even mdef neck, with mdef neck alot more)

Fissile - Archosaur

Shadowvzss - Harshlands wrote: »

@Fissile
Your calculation wrong, even without meridian/buff/lv0 passive primal etc my sin friend got 2.4k fire def (from 11k) after sparked him and not vit stoned so if he max passive+buffed spark let on him minimum 8k-9k firedeff or even more, he need to be lv10 mirage then i can tell (btw he use pdef neck so not even mdef neck, with mdef neck alot more)

I don't understand what you are saying but there isn't anything wrong with the calculation. Maybe you didn't understand what I was saying, which is with passive buff and after spark+undine strike you would have more than 2k fire defense with almost no gear on.

Shadowvzss - Harshlands

Fissile - Archosaur wrote: »

I don't understand what you are saying but there isn't anything wrong with the calculation. Maybe you didn't understand what I was saying, which is with passive buff and after spark+undine strike you would have more than 2k fire defense with almost no gear on.

i said u assassin with la gear and nw pdef neck WITHOUT buff and passive skill have over 2.4k firedef after spark with 110 dex

no ideea where come that 2k+ defence (that was 32-37% ressistance) if he got no passive skill and unbuffed

Fissile - Archosaur

R9 gear and g15 cape and helm add an additional 750 magic defense as +defense adds. That, and cards, neuma, titles and meridians aren't counted in the % calculations. Debuffed 100% they will still have those defenses.

Also, each approx. 13 vit works like a 1% buff. If he has no passive buff then he probably has about 80 vit or so from gear or stat points.

Asterelle - Sanctuary

Fissile - Archosaur wrote: »

R9 gear and g15 cape and helm add an additional 750 magic defense as +defense adds. That, and cards, neuma, titles and meridians aren't counted in the % calculations. Debuffed 100% they will still have those defenses.

I'm not sure if you are confused but those things are all a part of your base equipment defense. The rest of what you are saying shows a good technical understanding though so maybe I'm just misreading what you wrote.

For some exact values:
10 vit = 0.8% mres + pdef
10 Mag / Str = 1.2% mres / pdef

The 56% passive is the equivalent defense of having an extra 700 vit without the HP.

Shadowvzss - Harshlands

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm not sure if you are confused but those things are all a part of your base equipment defense. The rest of what you are saying shows a good technical understanding though so maybe I'm just misreading what you wrote.

For some exact values:
10 vit = 0.8% mres + pdef
10 Mag / Str = 1.2% mres / pdef

The 56% passive is the equivalent defense of having an extra 700 vit without the HP.

now have sense why i hit damn low on full vit stoned end game geared sin.... (5k crit with nuke skill and udine is lol)

btw i made few test

NOTE: i don't have nw tome, engrave, +12 rings, and alst level from passive so udine vs end game caster became more crapier than in this test with my **** gear

Stat: 802 Mag
Level: 104
Gearl: R9 3rd belt, armor and +8/+11 rings
Primal passive: Level 6 - 48% ressitance

                        [COLOR="Yellow"][B]Element ress.[/B][/COLOR]
             [B] [COLOR="DeepSkyBlue"]Unbuffed[/COLOR]      -      [COLOR="DeepSkyBlue"]Cleric buffed[/COLOR]       -      [COLOR="DeepSkyBlue"]Udined[/COLOR] [/B][I][COLOR="PaleTurquoise"](if target buffed)[/COLOR][/I]
[COLOR="Plum"][B]Mdef [/B][/COLOR]       [COLOR="Yellow"]27572[/COLOR] [COLOR="Lime"](86.96%)[/COLOR]  -      [COLOR="Yellow"]34190[/COLOR] [COLOR="Lime"](89.21%)[/COLOR]      -       [COLOR="Yellow"]27572[/COLOR]   [COLOR="Lime"](86.96%) [/COLOR]       
[COLOR="Plum"][B]Dmg %[/B][/COLOR]       [COLOR="Yellow"]13.04%[/COLOR]          -      [COLOR="Yellow"]10.79%[/COLOR]              -       [COLOR="Yellow"]13.04%[/COLOR] [COLOR="Orange"](+20.85%)[/COLOR]

Screenshot http://s1.postimg.org/6f7tanmhb/ressitance.jpg


somehow i guess full dex genie spark have only a very bit better ration than udine

XXHotXx - Morai

yup and all this its because defense passive skills, act like real buffs and not as gear value (they are passive skills indeed)

so i cant explain why exactly (i got rusty maths about debuffs above buffed)

but all the debuffs will have kind of half efficiency (56% less) on targets with those passives learnt

so undine will be 24% instead of 60% redux

and spark will be 44% instead of 100% redux


even and even less (almost negligible debuff values) if targets have cleric+base ele res buffs (wizards cant purge)

Fissile - Archosaur

Shadowvzss - Harshlands wrote: »

now have sense why i hit damn low on full vit stoned end game geared sin.... (5k crit with nuke skill and udine is lol)

btw i made few test

NOTE: i don't have nw tome, engrave, +12 rings, and alst level from passive so udine vs end game caster became more crapier than in this test with my **** gear

Stat: 802 Mag
Level: 104
Gearl: R9 3rd belt, armor and +8/+11 rings
Primal passive: Level 6 - 48% ressitance

                        [COLOR="Yellow"][B]Element ress.[/B][/COLOR]
             [B] [COLOR="DeepSkyBlue"]Unbuffed[/COLOR]      -      [COLOR="DeepSkyBlue"]Cleric buffed[/COLOR]       -      [COLOR="DeepSkyBlue"]Udined[/COLOR] [/B][I][COLOR="PaleTurquoise"](if target buffed)[/COLOR][/I]
[COLOR="Plum"][B]Mdef [/B][/COLOR]       [COLOR="Yellow"]27572[/COLOR] [COLOR="Lime"](86.96%)[/COLOR]  -      [COLOR="Yellow"]34190[/COLOR] [COLOR="Lime"](89.21%)[/COLOR]      -       [COLOR="Yellow"]27572[/COLOR]   [COLOR="Lime"](86.96%) [/COLOR]       
[COLOR="Plum"][B]Dmg %[/B][/COLOR]       [COLOR="Yellow"]13.04%[/COLOR]          -      [COLOR="Yellow"]10.79%[/COLOR]              -       [COLOR="Yellow"]13.04%[/COLOR] [COLOR="Orange"](+20.85%)[/COLOR]

Screenshot http://s1.postimg.org/6f7tanmhb/ressitance.jpg


somehow i guess full dex genie spark have only a very bit better ration than udine

- Redacted -

Never mind I see what you are trying to say that the amp provided by undine strike is nothing compared to what it used to be.

Shadowvzss - Harshlands

i made few theory test because cannot get people who can instantly upgrade to lv0=>lv7 after test

Lv 100 **** geared cleric
471 mag

lv0 passive
7767 66.15%(33.85%=+22.6% dmg than lv7 passive)- normal
4921 55.32%(44.68%=+29.8% dmg than lv7 passive)- udine
2693 40.39%(59.61%=+39.8% dmg than lv7 passive)- sparked
132 3.21%(96.79%=+64.6% dmg than lv7 passive)- udined and sparked (110 dex)
10612 72.75%(27.25%=+18.2% dmg than lv7 passive)- buffed
7767 66.15%(33.85%=+22.6% dmg than lv7 passive)- cleric buffed udined
5538 58.22%(41.78%=+27.9% dmg than lv7 passive)- cleric buffed sparked (110 dex)
2693 40.39%(59.61%=+39.8% dmg than lv7 passive)- cleric buffed udined+sparked (110 dex)

lv7 passive - 2656
10423 72.39%(27.61%)- normal
7577 65.59%(34.41%)- udine
5349 57.37%(42.63%)- sparked
2788 41.22%(58.78%) -udined and sparked (110 dex)
13268 76.95%(23.05%)- buffed
10423 72.39%(27.61%)- cleric buffed udined
8194 67.34%(32.66%)- cleric buffed sparked (110 dex)
5349 57.37%(42.63%)- cleric buffed udined+sparked (110 dex)

%=(ress/[40*lv+ress-25])
cleric buff/udine increase/decrease same +2846 mdef

XXHotXx - Morai

Shadowvzss - Harshlands wrote: »

i made few theory test because cannot get people who can instantly upgrade to lv0=>lv7 after test

lol and this numbers with a crappy geared one...

any decent AA has at least 25k mag res, LA 20k, HA 15k

if you consider the exponential increase of damage reduction by the increase of resistance value,
starting from that higher values (25k 20k 15k)

we will even have worse numbers\difference between "non-passived" debuffed target and "passived" debuffed target....
then add cleric + base buffs\tidal wafer + the inability to purge the target and here you go, any debuff now is negligible


and all this granted just by even sitting afk in pvp ..........

PWI WHAT HAVE YOU DONE you destroyed our class

Shadowvzss - Harshlands

it was only a example so there not that important...
if i start calculate the dmg then i must add def lv vs at lv, magic damage reduction etc

btw i got 27.5k magic defence and don't have nw tome or mag/mdef engrave so at endgame i guess i must have over 30k mdef without buff (only from nw tome with restat +90 mag stat,if i level to 105 then also few more so over all i guess could get +100 mag without problem)

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

lol and this numbers with a crappy geared one...

any decent AA has at least 25k mag res, LA 20k, HA 15k

if you consider the exponential increase of damage reduction by the increase of resistance value,
starting from that higher values (25k 20k 15k)

we will even have worse numbers\difference between "non-passived" debuffed target and "passived" debuffed target....
then add cleric + base buffs\tidal wafer + the inability to purge the target and here you go, any debuff now is negligible


and all this granted just by even sitting afk in pvp ..........

PWI WHAT HAVE YOU DONE you destroyed our class

drheal

The Perfect World has changed for the order of wizards, after the primal passives kills came into effect, that is for sure.
I made a 140 DEX genie with spark to increase the debuff, it still can delete most people if I crit and they dont counter it. Still my wiz has endgame gear and 548 spirit. I am still ahead others in card refines. Soon they will catch up and I'll have to adapt.

I'll post a TW video with the latest tests:

http://youtu.be/7IIgDnBGgCs


Some notes related to the video:

0:32 after a debuff, even with 25k self buffed pdef and 101 def lvls, he crits me for 35745 dmg.
4:06 after a fight with LB, there is no dmg log and I still die. It has not registered or the bleed does not show in dmg log.
4:48 again, must be an error with the dmg shown in the dmg log as there is not dmg and I tick and die right after zarkin.
12:01 changed my genie to the 140DEX genie to see how low it brings the fire defense at with the new masteries, undine+spark combo has been nerfed. It still works, if unbuffed, I can delete some people provided I crit.
12.50 I got outplayed by herozero, he used cornered beast right before my crit, he survived. I did not. Well played.
13.55 did the same test on Skirlz, one of the strongest archers in Vicious. It works deleting people if used at the right time. Not to self: Cast devine pyro before using spark, then almost at the end of the cast time, spark them, denying any reaction time.

XXHotXx - Morai

drheal wrote: »

The Perfect World has changed for the order of wizards, after the primal passives kills came into effect, that is for sure.
I made a 140 DEX genie with spark to increase the debuff, it still can delete most people if I crit and they dont counter it. Still my wiz has endgame gear and 548 spirit. I am still ahead others in card refines. Soon they will catch up and I'll have to adapt.

I'll post a TW video with the latest tests:

http://youtu.be/7IIgDnBGgCs


Some notes related to the video:

0:32 after a debuff, even with 25k self buffed pdef and 101 def lvls, he crits me for 35745 dmg.
4:06 after a fight with LB, there is no dmg log and I still die. It has not registered or the bleed does not show in dmg log.
4:48 again, must be an error with the dmg shown in the dmg log as there is not dmg and I tick and die right after zarkin.
12:01 changed my genie to the 140DEX genie to see how low it brings the fire defense at with the new masteries, undine+spark combo has been nerfed. It still works, if unbuffed, I can delete some people provided I crit.
12.50 I got outplayed by herozero, he used cornered beast right before my crit, he survived. I did not. Well played.
13.55 did the same test on Skirlz, one of the strongest archers in Vicious. It works deleting people if used at the right time. Not to self: Cast devine pyro before using spark, then almost at the end of the cast time, spark them, denying any reaction time.

you do realize its not "spark" but its you overspiriting anyone else?

on my server there is none with such spirit value yet xD

drheal

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

you do realize its not "spark" but its you overspiriting anyone else?

on my server there is none with such spirit value yet xD

I did some tests, 140 DEX is indeed better that 100 DEX genie.

On a R9.3 cleric with 38k mdef buffed, I did a test:

1. Undine+100DEX genie spark=19600 fire def
2. Undine+140DEX genie spark=17200 fire def

Having that much dex limits your genie to bad regeneration and poor choice of skills due to lack of vit.

Cytte - Harshlands

drheal wrote: »

I did some tests, 140 DEX is indeed better that 100 DEX genie.

On a R9.3 cleric with 38k pdef buffed, I did a test:

1. Undine+100DEX genie spark=19600 fire def
2. Undine+140DEX genie spark=17200 fire def

Having that much dex limits your genie to bad regeneration and poor choice of skills due to lack of vit.

1. We all know higher dex = better spark, doesn't mean gimping your genies' vit/mag that much is a good idea.
2, I don't care bout a clerics p-deff buffed, were talking about fire resistance
3, you have 584 spirit, Spark isn't helping your damage as much as that spirit is, the only person with close to that much spirit on HL is a certain archer. everyone who isn't as well off as him is only around 400 atm

drheal

Cytte - Harshlands wrote: »

1. We all know higher dex = better spark, doesn't mean gimping your genies' vit/mag that much is a good idea.
2, I don't care bout a clerics p-deff buffed, were talking about fire resistance
3, you have 584 spirit, Spark isn't helping your damage as much as that spirit is, the only person with close to that much spirit on HL is a certain archer. everyone who isn't as well off as him is only around 400 atm

Yes my bad, i meant to say mdef, not pdef. Yes spirit helps but dmg wise, all debuffs are nerfed due to this passive, at least for us wizzies, undine, spark.

Veno debuff is not. If veno procs 20% chance, my pdef goes to 0.

Sins can zerk crit me for 35k even with lower spirit and imacs on their gear, as u've seen in the tw video.

I might need to step up my game and play better but ...that takes time to PVP which is a rare commodity.

Kevyy - Harshlands

is spark nerfed to the point where its useless and not worth having on my genie?

drheal

It depends. Personally, in PK, i tend to avoid sparking as I am forced to use my genie defensively for Expel or AD.
Sins and BMs are able to kill me else, when i am disabled.

XXHotXx - Morai

once upon a time there were sins rerolling wizs...

now its time for wizs to reroll sins b:laugh

consider also that endgame wiz has a phys res similar to barb and bm on self buffs

if sins can hit that much on you, they can do the same on any other class (today my friend endgame cata barb got 2shotted from a deity sin)

Eoria - Harshlands

Cytte - Harshlands wrote: »

3, you have 584 spirit, Spark isn't helping your damage as much as that spirit is, the only person with close to that much spirit on HL is a certain archer. everyone who isn't as well off as him is only around 400 atm

That archer should be well over 500. Around 800-850 if maxed prime cards/nuemas. 500+ is more like what that one Crimson psy probably has.

XXHotXx - Morai

drheal wrote: »

I did some tests, 140 DEX is indeed better that 100 DEX genie.

On a R9.3 cleric with 38k mdef buffed, I did a test:

1. Undine+100DEX genie spark=19600 fire def
2. Undine+140DEX genie spark=17200 fire def

Having that much dex limits your genie to bad regeneration and poor choice of skills due to lack of vit.

having full dex genie will lead you to have no ad or chi eruption that are vital for wizards

also 38k mdef is like 89% damage reduction?

with a 140 dex spark genie + undine, that should go down to flat 0 (128%+60% debuff)

instead it goes down to 17k that is 82% damage reduction...

its soooo **** that a 188% fire res debuff reduce target resistance by just 7%

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

That archer should be well over 500. Around 800-850 if maxed prime cards/nuemas. 500+ is more like what that one Crimson psy probably has.

No, I heard he is still waiting on a response from the GMs on his ticket for 26,388 C packs..

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

having full dex genie will lead you to have no ad or chi eruption that are vital for wizards

also 38k mdef is like 89% damage reduction?

with a 140 dex spark genie + undine, that should go down to flat 0 (128%+60% debuff)

instead it goes down to 17k that is 82% damage reduction...

its soooo **** that a 188% fire res debuff reduce target resistance by just 7%

This is pretty sad, wizzies used to be scary, guess I'll never need to get Soul of Fire on my genie. I think my archer has just under 21k mdef unbuffed.