Uuuhhhh is it just me or are our skill upgrades possibly OP as hell?

Longknife - Harshlands
Longknife - Harshlands Posts: 4,843 Arc User
edited July 2014 in Psychic
Not the merges, mind you. Having the merged skills = u dunno wut ur doin


Last night I was in NW and ran into two Psychics with the Glacial Shards upgrade and wtf their damage output felt considerably superior to mine just for that skill alone.

Ijs this seems like a rather pleasant surprise. Sure, wizzies got that 800% damage skill that hits twice, but that's single target with a decent cooldown. If GLACIAL hits hard? AOE and spammable due to a short cooldown. Not to mention the damage increases on the two basic attacks, I mean wtf.

So was I hallucinating or does the Glacial Shards damage upgrade give a pretty nice boost to it's damage in PVP? Wasn't expecting to be getting -any- good upgrades since Psy has often felt like one of the "let's give them modest boosts since they're already fairly strong" classes, but that alone seemed like "here go QQ about how OP my class is."
I <3 AGOREY
Post edited by Longknife - Harshlands on
«13

Comments

  • Euthymius - Heavens Tear
    Euthymius - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,162 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Haven't gotten Alpha G.Shards (yet) to say, but how can that be? Did a base damage increase of 4k that significant of an upgrade? As for the damage boost on A.Impact and Sp.Blast, I'm skeptical of their overall damage being boosted significantly unless that "monster only" boost is a description error...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Remember: OP may be a duck|OP/GMs/Devs may not deliver|Search function is your friend|Lurk more|Be wary of Mods: they can't be trusted|This place isn't a hugbox|Your tears sustain me|Know what Bait is|"Soon" may never come|Postcount, Dubs, and other GETs are important|Don't revive long dead threads|There is a section for everything|You can be banned for anything|No Fun Allowed outside of OT|Sweetiebot rules OT|"Circlejerks" are inevitable|Threads can be derailed and saved|Those who use"XD" should off themselves at their earliest convenience|
  • trands
    trands Posts: 2
    edited January 2014
    It does a little more damage, but nothing to big. A bit hard to judge, but most damage increase seems to come from more mag points (and 90% of the server being glass canons that go for the offensive passives before the deffensive one). The extra freeze time is really nice though. Didn't bother with aqua impact/spirit blast. Going for passives first.
  • Euzebe - Sanctuary
    Euzebe - Sanctuary Posts: 230 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    It does seem to hit a great deal harder but that might also be as a result of having 80+ mag from the rebirths.

    I haven't noticed an increase in freeze time though.
  • killeresras
    killeresras Posts: 236 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    trands wrote: »
    It does a little more damage, but nothing to big. A bit hard to judge, but most damage increase seems to come from more mag points (and 90% of the server being glass canons that go for the offensive passives before the deffensive one). The extra freeze time is really nice though. Didn't bother with aqua impact/spirit blast. Going for passives first.

    What are passives? :o
    Love lost is room gained
    b:cute
  • Mayfly - Dreamweaver
    Mayfly - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,094 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Passive skills are skills that you don't have to do anything to get the benefit from, like mastery skills. There are 3 new ones available to reborn characters, one enhances skill damage, one increases defenses, and one increases crit rate.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Weekly Japanese/English bilingual webcomic
    thejapanesepage.com/ebooks/yuki_no_monogatari_manga
  • Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver
    Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver Posts: 301 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Not the merges, mind you. Having the merged skills = u dunno wut ur doin


    Last night I was in NW and ran into two Psychics with the Glacial Shards upgrade and wtf their damage output felt considerably superior to mine just for that skill alone.

    Ijs this seems like a rather pleasant surprise. Sure, wizzies got that 800% damage skill that hits twice, but that's single target with a decent cooldown. If GLACIAL hits hard? AOE and spammable due to a short cooldown. Not to mention the damage increases on the two basic attacks, I mean wtf.

    So was I hallucinating or does the Glacial Shards damage upgrade give a pretty nice boost to it's damage in PVP? Wasn't expecting to be getting -any- good upgrades since Psy has often felt like one of the "let's give them modest boosts since they're already fairly strong" classes, but that alone seemed like "here go QQ about how OP my class is."

    Dont think that increase is so significant. Its probably result of more magic stat points + maybe they have good cards. Did you check what cards they have. They can increase mag att sky high.
  • michaelcolli
    michaelcolli Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    i just read something about passive skills?? anny idea how to get them im a reborn level 81 psy and i got no idea please some help me out? f:cry
  • trands
    trands Posts: 2
    edited January 2014
    i just read something about passive skills?? anny idea how to get them im a reborn level 81 psy and i got no idea please some help me out? f:cry

    At the big forge in the town where you enter Primal World (Kirrin town). Same place where you get the class related skill. First page is all-class stuff like the 2nd reincarnation stone and also contains 3 skills that all classes can learn. One upgrades skill damage, one upgrades crit rate and one upgrades defenses. Seems to be the exact same for each class. Need to buy a new book for each time you want to lvl the skill. The lvl you can learn depends on your Arcane Sky. These skills cost only Primordial Blood (+coins/spirit, but not much 100k or so).
  • Longknife - Harshlands
    Longknife - Harshlands Posts: 4,843 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Getting it tomorrow, I'll run a couple tests with it's damage before and after to see just how much the spike is.

    As I said, wasn't entirely sure if it was OP or not, it's just in one night I seemed to encounter two Psys that hit maybe ~4.5k on other spells and then 6-6.5k on glacial. That? That's a friggin charm bypass, if used correctly. And it's a charm bypass that's spammable.
    I <3 AGOREY
  • Pwnallagain - Heavens Tear
    Pwnallagain - Heavens Tear Posts: 206 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    The times I have had it used on me, it seemed to hit extremely hard. Compared to their other skills it hit almost double or I just got bad luck 10x in a row with super high end hits.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Longknife - Harshlands
    Longknife - Harshlands Posts: 4,843 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Ok so I did before in after tests as well as tests comparing it to Sandburst (which basically had the same damage as Glacial beforehand).


    Everyone, regardless of their armor type, takes 500 extra damage from it in most cases. BM went from 6000 to 6500, venos went from 4500 to 5000. Barb took 8k from normal and 9.0 to 9.2k from upgraded when he was buffed, but when I buffed myself the gap lowered to 9k vs. 9.5k. Should also note I WAS buffed vs. the venos and BM. So BASICALLY the bonus is like 500 damage across the board, and potentially 1-1.2k when you're unbuffed. (with my gear of course, I have max matk at about 37k, 40k buffed) It's kinda odd, not quite sure why the arcanes take exactly the same, but I suppose that's how the additional damage mechanic works.

    So in THAT sense, it's sorta OP in the sense that it's an immediate way to do 500 extra damage per shot vs arcanes, something that's usually not so simple. I also don't think people should underestimate 500 damage, cause 1) This thing is spammable so that adds up 2) I know I've had a DOZEN times where I just can't QUITE bypass because my skills do 49% damage each, this would fix it 3) 500 damage is comparable to ~20-30 attack levels (forget which, been a while since I tested, but I know I wanted to understand the impact of Jones or Black voodoo and found it was about 500)


    So yeah, I mean it's not AMAZING but it's definitely not something to be underestimated simply because this is a skill we spam the ever living **** out of and now it just hits harder. Also assume that the upgraded Spirit Blast and Aqua Impact will do an extra 250 damage each (again my gear standard), and yeah this all adds up.
    I <3 AGOREY
  • Longknife - Harshlands
    Longknife - Harshlands Posts: 4,843 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Oh and also it makes you do a crotch thrust like Michael Jackson. So that's nice too.
    I <3 AGOREY
  • Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver
    Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver Posts: 301 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Oh and also it makes you do a crotch thrust like Michael Jackson. So that's nice too.

    LOL

    I really appreciate you toke time to do test it because I'm still not sure should I get it. I hate to lose range from normal skill and still cant decide is the damage increase worth of loosing range. So if you can help me decide that would be great. Also can you tell me are you demon or siege psy?
  • Euzebe - Sanctuary
    Euzebe - Sanctuary Posts: 230 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    There is no loss of range, lvl 11 Glacial Shards is also 6m
  • Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver
    Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver Posts: 301 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Sorry my bad not range but AOE radius. Isnt that like 2m shorter?
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Nothing was changed on Glacial as far as I know besides the actual description to reflect what it really does (and the obvious damage increase on the Primal version).
    A couple of other skills had their descriptions updated too.

    I think lvl10 says 6m too but I can't log my Psychic right now to see.

    [SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
    ★ Venomancer videos - tinyurl.com/k6ppkw4 ★ Desdi - Demon ♪ Wyvelin - Sage ★
  • Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver
    Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver Posts: 301 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Yes lvl 10 is 6m.
    Then don't see any problem with getting it since theres only has damage increase. Nice ty:)
  • Longknife - Harshlands
    Longknife - Harshlands Posts: 4,843 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    The important thing is it upgrades your Glacial Shards to give you an epic crotch thrust animation.
    I <3 AGOREY
  • Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver
    Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver Posts: 301 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    The important thing is it upgrades your Glacial Shards to give you an epic crotch thrust animation.

    QQ everyone already makes fun of me because Furious ocean, and now that one to !?!?! b:cry
  • The__Sun - Dreamweaver
    The__Sun - Dreamweaver Posts: 336 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Sorry my bad not range but AOE radius. Isnt that like 2m shorter?

    It used to say 8 meters, I think that is why you were confused. But, they recently fixed it to say 6 meters, cause we always questioned "Is this really 8 meters?"
    The AOE range never hit the same targets that sandburst blast did. As the others are saying it is purely positive upgrade.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    **** Laws of Physics I'm going to shoot crystals from my hands and summon meteors from the air.... Laws of Psychics
  • Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver
    Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver Posts: 301 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    It used to say 8 meters, I think that is why you were confused. But, they recently fixed it to say 6 meters, cause we always questioned "Is this really 8 meters?"
    The AOE range never hit the same targets that sandburst blast did. As the others are saying it is purely positive upgrade.

    Yes, I was sure there was something I red about skill nerfed when skills description was first time posted here, so wasn't rushing to get it till I know all the facts.

    Hope to see more posts about with opinions on other new skills. Its very helpfully since psys wasn't very happy with new skills at the beginning and some still regretting getting some.
  • Longknife - Harshlands
    Longknife - Harshlands Posts: 4,843 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Hope to see more posts about with opinions on other new skills.

    tl;dr you're an idiot if you merge any of them but the upgrades are fine.
    I <3 AGOREY
  • Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver
    Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver Posts: 301 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    tl;dr you're an idiot if you merge any of them but the upgrades are fine.

    Idiot?
    I merged skills to get furious ocean because its awesome skill for PV. With it now, I don't have to switch anymore from white to black voodoo, and I can stay in white through run. I don't have to have charm for pv anymore and I spent less hp food then before.. basically I don't have any more costs in PV compared to before when I ***** my charm and wasted tones of hp food.

    Yes I miss sometimes old skill but benefit I got from new one is priceless for me since I'm ruining lot of PVs.

    Every person needs to know what he gets and loose with getting new skills, and then decide is that something you need. Your opinion about it can be discussed but its not something that we all should take for absolute truth. People has different styles of playing same as they have different preferences - some prefer pvp others only do pwe.

    So lets just stick to share our opinions about mechanic of the skill and its pros and cons instead of calling people idiots just because they think they have good use of new skills and decided to get it.
  • Longknife - Harshlands
    Longknife - Harshlands Posts: 4,843 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Idiot?
    With it now, I don't have to switch anymore from white to black voodoo, and I can stay in white through run.

    Ladies and gentlemen, I rest my case.

    There's nothing about Furious Ocean that could possibly afford you this advantage. There's nothing keeping you from staying white voodoo, Psy willing and AOEing. Hell, I could upload a video this week if you wanted showcasing how to pull in white voodoo and avoid a charm tick altogether without the need of the skill.

    You lost one spammable AOE to buy one that costs a spark and makes you go WRRRRYYYY. You already attacked just as frequently as that zhen, but NOT having the zhen afforded you more individual control over your character and more damage.

    Likewise, you lost Torrent. While DoT spells are absolute garbage on any other class, Psy is the noteable exception. Psys, if coordinated, can legit kill a cata barb through turtle with the use of DoT spells. Likewise, certain classes like archer have limited ways to clean these in 1v1 scenarios, so even the tankiest archer that outgears you can be killed with a proper DoT stack THEN onslaught of damage.




    Basically, you always want various tools to help you out, and you sacrificed a chi-less, spammable AOE and a DoT spell for a 1 spark zhen. Zhen has only ever been warranted because certain classes, like wizard, cannot achieve the AOE DPS they get from their zhen all otherwise. Psy is not one of those classes. Psy is on the top of the list for when people ask "I like a class that AOEs a lot, which classes AOE constantly?"




    The only thing this zhen affords you is the ability to AFK at certain instances, AKA it affords you the ability to be lazy. TW already has enough idiot wizzies and seekers that can't figure out that spinning like a top or putting up a christmas tree is a PvE-focused ability, now it gets dip**** Psys charging full speed at the enemy and going "WRRRRYYY."



    I'm sorry but every time I've heard this "everyone has a right to their opinion on how to play," it's been in justification of camping white voodoo as a DD, in justification of going demon or in justification of some wizzie thinking charging at enemy DDs, IGing and putting up an Xmas tree are all brilliant and fair strategies, as if a Psy can be a barb, as if there's a reasonable debate between sage and demon Psy, and as if it's impossible to walk out of range of a ****ing zhen in PVP.


    There's having an opinion about something ("should I open with a stun vs this seeker or not?", "should I start in black voodoo or white voodoo or SoSt or SoR in 1v1 against another Psy?") and then there's god damned terriawful, ill-informed decisions. Furious Ocean is one of those.
    I <3 AGOREY
  • Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver
    Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver Posts: 301 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I understand that your ego is huge and that your opinion is better then any other, your play style is only good one and your choices are better then anyone elses.

    I could explain my reasons of doing something, like for example pv, and how I tried everything possible to get (FOR ME) best results (aka do it in fastest way while spending less money is possible) but what would be the point since again you know it better.

    Torrent is good dot, but just for a moment think that maybe there are people that DON'T pvp at all and never use that skill.

    Aqua cannon also good, but not better or worst then Furious ocean. It has pros and cons, but how will you know it since you never used FO. People who got it learned how to take advantage of it. Spark cost of FO in pwe is completely negligible, and if someone use that skill in pvp, that person already knows that is worth to sacrifice 1 spark in that moment otherwise wouldn't use it, same as other skills that cost sparks (btw your vision of psy running full speed into tones of people and using FO showing how low you think of other peoples intelligence).

    While I love to exchange opinions with people, its hard for me to take seriously opinion from someone that thinks how all demon psys are idiots (I'm siege btw but I know very well what demon psy can do and what are his advantages) and some other nonsance you stated.

    Dmn game must be so boring for you since you already know it all.
  • CoinFarmer - Lost City
    CoinFarmer - Lost City Posts: 39 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I understand that your ego is huge and that your opinion is better then any other, your play style is only good one and your choices are better then anyone elses.

    I could explain my reasons of doing something, like for example pv, and how I tried everything possible to get (FOR ME) best results (aka do it in fastest way while spending less money is possible) but what would be the point since again you know it better.

    Torrent is good dot, but just for a moment think that maybe there are people that DON'T pvp at all and never use that skill.

    Aqua cannon also good, but not better or worst then Furious ocean. It has pros and cons, but how will you know it since you never used FO. People who got it learned how to take advantage of it. Spark cost of FO in pwe is completely negligible, and if someone use that skill in pvp, that person already knows that is worth to sacrifice 1 spark in that moment otherwise wouldn't use it, same as other skills that cost sparks (btw your vision of psy running full speed into tones of people and using FO showing how low you think of other peoples intelligence).

    While I love to exchange opinions with people, its hard for me to take seriously opinion from someone that thinks how all demon psys are idiots (I'm siege btw but I know very well what demon psy can do and what are his advantages) and some other nonsance you stated.

    Dmn game must be so boring for you since you already know it all.

    (as DemansPsy)
    Ok HOW does furious ocean help you more in pv that spaming AoEs? I don't understand how it now allows you to run in white voodoo the entire time but you couldn't before? preaty sure your AoE dps is worse now w/ that skill and if you can kill them now using white-->psy will--> furious ocean, you should have been able to w/ white--->psy will--> sandburst/aqua cannon/ vector/ glacial before you "upgraded".

    How is aqua cannon worst than furious? It GIVES you chi AND has higher damage and you can move/use another skill once it's done and not be stuck in place...as for spark being negligible in pve...you realize you can 3 spark for even HIGHER dps instead of burning a spark and gaining 0 chi while you zhen in 1 spot. As for pvp, WHY would u burn a spark to AoE w/ FO when you could have gained chi w/ Aqua then either dropped another AoE or immuned or AoE stunned or SB or etc. I see no advantage of FO compared to aqua cannon, in addition to the pvp statement then getting FO means you lost torrent which hurts...
    Call me Demans
    DemansPsy:2009-2013 Dec. 24th, may you rest in peace...er well as much as you can in the equivalent of pwi hell anyway.
  • Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver
    Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver Posts: 301 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Ok HOW does furious ocean help you more in pv that spaming AoEs? I don't understand how it now allows you to run in white voodoo the entire time but you couldn't before? preaty sure your AoE dps is worse now w/ that skill and if you can kill them now using white-->psy will--> furious ocean, you should have been able to w/ white--->psy will--> sandburst/aqua cannon/ vector/ glacial before you "upgraded".

    Because its easier to use 1 skill then 3-4. Now i pull, psy will, FO and lets go again - its faster and gives you better crowed control since mobs are nicely gathered around you and cant move (btw vector also takes one spark:).

    Dunno why you so stuck on loosing spark (nvm you demon). For me its not a problem. I can use ginie, or apo to get 2 sparks not just one. And for that one I just need Master Lee + SOR.

    I don't regret I lost canon ( I miss it sometimes cause was playing with it for a long time) everything canon did in pwe FO does better and for pvp, well I never used it much since I don't let people get so close to me, I rather run and keep my distance specially with puri/speed on my weapon - but again it depends from person to person (you are demon and you have to be in closer range then siege).

    And yes I miss Torrent, but I already sad that. Some things you get some things you loose, so everyone has to inform themselves and decide whats best for them. When it comes to new skills every class has to make decisions and sacrifice some things or you just can stick to old skills and be happy with it. Once you decide to get new you will make the best of it pwe/pvp wise.
  • Longknife - Harshlands
    Longknife - Harshlands Posts: 4,843 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I understand that your ego is huge and that your opinion is better then any other, your play style is only good one and your choices are better then anyone elses.

    I hear this "argument" more and more, and every time, I ask the person making the claim to elaborate on how it's "opinion" by providing evidence to the contrary against my claims. Rarely does it happen. Ego would imply I'm close-minded and unwilling to hear out or accept evidence to the contrary. No, if you have some? Let's damn well hear it and I'd be eager to see it. This? This is confidence. I'm confident you DON'T have evidence to the contrary, and sure enough? Thusfar, your justification is pretty poor.

    "It's better to use one skill than three." How? This is absolute nonsense. Just because you have to hit three buttons instead of one doesn't mean it's less effective. It means you have to press more buttons and put more thought into what you're doing (minimal amounts, but more all the same). That's exactly what I'm saying: Furious Ocean is a lazy convenience, NOT a tool that's actually practical or beneficial.
    And you say "I pull, Psy will, furious ocean and move on." Yeah, and I pull, Psy will, AOE 2-3 times and move on. Where's the difference? Furious Ocean overs NO benefit to your defense whatsoever, and yet here you are claiming "omg I tick way less now, thanks Furious Ocean!"

    There is absolutely no way whatsoever that Furious Ocean would benefit your PV ability aside from allowing you to be lazier. That's it. It doesn't make you tankier, it doesn't make mobs hit lower, it doesn't save you money, and if it even DOES provide better DPS it's impractical. If it does is highly debateable. Hell, let's not debate and speculate...

    Take a look at this.


    Two things about that? Check his damage with Furious Ocean, check his damage with Sandburst. Mind you, that's vs different types of mobs so it could be the reason for the damage gap, but I sure as HELL don't recall those two mobs taking such drastically different damage. Really? Two mobs in the same run and one takes twice the damage the other takes...? Even pwdatabase agrees with me. You can CLOCK the time it takes him to dispatch mobs with Furious Ocean vs. with Sandburst and Glacial and see a clear difference with the latter being the winner by a significant degree.
    Secondly, this zhen falls apart the moment there's ranged DDs. That's why Psys never needed a zhen. We have enough AOEs to easily dispatch both ranged and non-ranged DDs alike. Hell, I'm certain Sandburst could've reached both. Ever done a GV run? Typically as a Psy, you're expected to kill the ranged mobs out of range of the wizzie zhen. Does that mean you can't out-DD that wizzie's zhen? HELL NO, I do it constantly. It just means that wiz is stuck in zhen and can't be assed to drop out. You? You can AOE both near and far no problem.



    So please, kindly take your "REPSEKT MY OPINION!11!" attitude and shove it up your ***. I'll respect your "opinion" when your opinion earns it. You wanna prove a point? Back it up with facts. But to sit and cry that I don't respect your opinion when you can't provide EVIDENCE that your "opinion" deserves the respect is on par with if you were to cry that I won't respect your opinion that the Earth is flat rather than round. I'm sick and tired of people being blissfully ignorant and simply screaming "omg what an ***!!" when someone comes along with evidence that trumps their "opinion," simply because it's not worded like "Temptation dearie? b:cute I'm SUPER PROUD of you for making an ill-informed decision and all and I'm glad you're happy with it, but you probably shouldn't do that in the future again, ok sweetie? But if you want to continue doing so, then that's ok and I still love you and I don't think any less of you for it! b:kiss"

    No, f*** that. You made a **** decision. Don't do it again and next time look before you leap.



    Having said all of that...

    The only possible use I can think of for this skill? I've heard a claim that I can't verify that this skill bypasses turtle aswell. I have no idea if that's true, but let's pretend it is.

    From the perspective of a TW leader, would I like a Psy with this ability at my disposal? Yes.

    From the perspective of being a Psy, would I get it myself? Hell no.

    In the same light that I wouldn't mind a demon Psy with the sandburst debuff effect in TW, hell no, I'm not going demon for that because I like SURVIVING. If you wanna put yourself in the line of fire by using this on barbs when they're super capable of simply walking out of range? By all means. I'll be back here hiding safely behind the range of Sand Trap, Telekinesis and Torrent. Only time it'd be even remotely safe is if the barbs are positioned on your crystal with poor support.

    So while it might (MIGHT!!!) have one function, it's not something that seems a worthy trade for -any- Psy and I wouldn't wish it or force it upon anyone.
    (btw your vision of psy running full speed into tones of people and using FO showing how low you think of other peoples intelligence).

    Sadly, no. This is experience from a TW/NW just last week...And it's not something new and exclusive to Psys, wizzies and seekers have been doing this since forever as well.

    Inb4 "WOW HURRDURR HARSHLANDS MUST SUCK" as if every server doesn't have a plague of idiots.
    I <3 AGOREY
  • nomadmercher
    nomadmercher Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Because its easier to use 1 skill then 3-4. Now i pull, psy will, FO and lets go again - its faster and gives you better crowed control since mobs are nicely gathered around you and cant move (btw vector also takes one spark:).

    Dunno why you so stuck on loosing spark (nvm you demon). For me its not a problem. I can use ginie, or apo to get 2 sparks not just one. And for that one I just need Master Lee + SOR.

    I don't regret I lost canon ( I miss it sometimes cause was playing with it for a long time) everything canon did in pwe FO does better and for pvp, well I never used it much since I don't let people get so close to me, I rather run and keep my distance specially with puri/speed on my weapon - but again it depends from person to person (you are demon and you have to be in closer range then siege).

    And yes I miss Torrent, but I already sad that. Some things you get some things you loose, so everyone has to inform themselves and decide whats best for them. When it comes to new skills every class has to make decisions and sacrifice some things or you just can stick to old skills and be happy with it. Once you decide to get new you will make the best of it pwe/pvp wise.

    (as DemansPsy) When did i say i was a DEMON psy? I'm sage, well was (I'll let you put pieces together), and my point on listing the combo w/ vector as well was to show you could still do the same thing w/o FO, except you'd deal more damage and stun anything left alive if you needed the extra attack skill. And you still haven't proved how FO is better than aqua cannon for pve...it costs a spark and deals less damage and you don't gain chi while AoEing. Having aqua cannon on the other hand lets you still constantly spam AoEs, deals higher dps, and makes you gain chi so you can 3 spark and get even HIGHER dps. And no the whole "but i only have to use one skill now instead of 3+" isn't a valid argument, that's laziness.
  • trands
    trands Posts: 2
    edited January 2014
    I've heard a claim that I can't verify that this skill bypasses turtle aswell. I have no idea if that's true, but let's pretend it is.


    I wonder if this is true. If it goes through the damage reduction buffs, then I'll take a closer look and consider getting it. Not sure if I would get it though, even if it is true. No more torrent would be a big loss...
This discussion has been closed.