Scenario (Discussion) 3: Genies and You.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Rather than a typical scenario, this is more an open discussion of the two main types of genies, their pros and cons, and how they fit in with the two general playstyles of a Blademaster. I'll try to make this brief seeing as the impending discussion should allow for us all to delve into great detail about the two types of genies, efficient setups, and what affects the skills you use such as general playstyle or common weaknesses.

I won't include Absolute Domain, Tree of Protection, or Expel because one can expect to find them on either type of genie, and though they may be discussed later they will not be included in the original post for this reason, however I will list their affinity costs and general uses here for reference.

Absolute Domain 4 Metal 4 Earth 4 Water (Used to resist heavy attacks/ganks and provide an antistun)

Tree of Protection 3 Wood 4 Water (Used mainly to recover from heavy damage or mitigate triple sparked attacks if Domain/Expel are unavailable)

Expel 5 Metal 6 Water (Used mainly by lower geared APS BMs, prevents physical damage. Mostly used against sins. Becomes obsolete with a Dex genie.)

An in depth guide for genies for BMs can be found here.

Strength Genie (A.K.A Occult genie)

As their alternate name would suggest, these are mainly used to incorporate Occult Ice into your stunlocks. It's mostly used by Blademasters that play with a pure high APS build, rather than those with a DPH build. It allows for the users to keep their opponents under heavy crowd control when used with our usual stuns. From my point of view, and probably many others an occult genie is more for 1v1s even though it will usually have Tangling Mire which is an AoE defense reduction.

Skills you can expect to find and their affinities:

Occult Ice 7 Water (Duh. Used for locking down opponents)

Tangling Mire 1 Earth 1 Water (Reduce physical defense and slow target)

True Emptiness 3 Metal 3 Water (Triple damage in air, somewhat spammable magic shield at low energy)

Will Surge 6 Wood (To bypass a Psychic's Soul of Silence or a if well timed, a Wizard's Force of Will)

Virulent Poison 2 Wood (Chi reduction, mostly for 1v1s)

Manta Ripple of Death 1 Earth 2 Water 2 Fire (Chi reduction, mostly for 1v1s)

A strength genie can make great use of skills requiring Water due to having 7 invested in that affinity for Occult. The skills used would primarily depend on whether or not it's a strict 1v1 genie or if it's more for all around tasks, such as group PvP or even PvE. A strength genie has limited defensive options, but it still has access to Tree of Protection, Expel, Absolute Domain, Balance, and True Emptiness, all of which are good defensive options. As a side note, you can put Fortify on it but it will require good timing to use properly, I don't recommend it if you're not good at timing. However, chances are you're a BM if you're getting something out of this, so you should be somewhat competent when it comes to timing. A strength genie is more for offense than defense and will lack the ability to break stunlocks like a Dex genie. Faith CAN be used on these, but I haven't personally seen it.

Dexterity Genie

There are a lot of different skills a Dexterity genie can make use of, the most common of which will be:

Fortify 4 Wood (For resisting stuns, when properly time it's a huge payoff for little cost)

Badge of Courage 4 Metal 3 Fire (For breaking stunlocks)

Cloud Eruption 7 Metal 5 Earth (For chi gain, Dex genie users tend to be built for DPH and lack fast chi gain in combat)

Extreme Poison 5 Wood (A single target amp, for the more offensive oriented BMs.)

Faith 7 Fire 7 Wood (Mostly 105s will have this, otherwise it costs too much affinity points and detracts from the genie overall. Very good skill.)

Whirlwind 1 Earth 1 Metal 2 Water (Used in conjuction with Smack to "stun" the enemy for one second and keep them in your lock or to stop a runner long enough to catch them)

Holy Path 2 Metal 2 Wood 2 Earth (Good for catching or escaping an enemy, or closing gaps at the very least)

You lose out on most offensive options save for Extreme Poison and a weaker Tangling Mire, but you gain a significant increase to overall survivability due to the ability to break locks and resist stuns with proper timing. A Dexterity Genie is more common on DPH users (R9+ usually) because at that point you no longer be relying on Occult for kills, and survivability becomes more important that raw damage. Dexterity genies can be configured for 1v1 fights, however a strength genie will almost always prove more effective in those scenarios. Dexterity genies are for group PvP and overall survival.





Each type of genie is by no means limited to these skills and some skills can be mixed and matched to suit your needs, depending on playstyle or what you're going up against. There's more I could have added to make this flow more smoothly, but I'm counting on the BMs here to discuss playstyles, pros and cons, and the like. We can iron out any kinks that way and help new BMs get a better understanding of genies and what they might like to have on theirs. These are just my general viewpoints with a bit of general information about certain skills.

Sylvae - Sanctuary

For TE I actually took it our for NWs. It not only doesn't help enough against OP people, it doesn't deal enough damage except against people I'd one shot anyways. It simply wasn't clicked enough, so due to that it had to be removed.

Occult Ice is simply too useful to do away with on a Str genie. I've used it to lengthen a stun where I've almost killed someone, I've used it when my anti-stuns are on CD to lead to a stun lock against a BM from 20M while they try to Roar from 12m. I've also used it to lock an R9 archer as I escorted a flag carrying barb so I could still lock the 3 players following behind trying to stun/immobilize our carrier. And when you can stun someone at 11 m/s without stopping, that's very nice.

For Dex genie, I had a weird idea I was wondering about efficacy on. With Spark and Smoldering, you can do both on one genie. So how much reduction is required on a target to get the 10X damage multiplier, and with demon GS and GoF what are the chances on one shotting a foo?

TheDan - Sanctuary

I've used all 3 types of genies periodically; STR based, DEX based, and VIT/MAG based.

Most of it's already been said, but to sum it up shortly, the STR based genies are good offensive 1v1, DEX based genies are defensive 1v1, and VIT/MAG is balanced for mass PvP.


STR genie in depth:


PRO: High chi drain ability, high Occult Ice proc rate for stun, great for Tangling mire

CON: Less survivability due to longer regen on genie, decent chi regen with cloud eruption


DEX genie in depth:


PRO: High survivability 1v1 (badge / wind shield); on demand stun-lock break, high Extreme poison duration

CON: Slow chi regen, weak offensively, rely on white teas often, less room to use IG


VIT/MAG genie in depth:


PRO: Great sustain in group PvP due to high regen rate, Fast chi regen, can HF and BT often, balanced survivability and offense (Will surge / Tree of protection / Tangling mire)

CON: Weak in 1v1 situation, lacking hard control skills / defensive skills

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

I use a bit of a hybrid, 50 Magic that way I'm not waiting ages for my genie to get energy. I sacrifice a bit of effectiveness but I've had it pay off. I've never made use of a Mag/Vit genie only Str and Dex.

TheDan - Sanctuary

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I use a bit of a hybrid, 50 Magic that way I'm not waiting ages for my genie to get energy. I sacrifice a bit of effectiveness but I've had it pay off. I've never made use of a Mag/Vit genie only Str and Dex.

That's what I also do to make it more usable; I have 3 genies; a 50 vit / 90 str / 70 magic on STR genie, 50 vit / 90 dex / 70 magic for DEX genie and 80 vit / 100 magic on the VIT/MAG genie.

Against sins DEX genies are effective (sometimes Psychics) 1v1.

Against anything else 1v1 STR genies are effective.

Mass PvP I've found VIT/MAG to be the best using stuns HF and BT way more often than I used to. Helps greatly in long combat sustainability in groups and balanced in offense / defense.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

That's what I also do to make it more usable; I have 3 genies; a 50 vit / 90 str / 70 magic on STR genie, 50 vit / 90 dex / 70 magic for DEX genie and 80 vit / 100 magic on the VIT/MAG genie.

Recently I've found VIT/MAG to be the best for mass PvP using stuns HF and BT way more often than I used to. Helps greatly in long combat sustainability in groups and balanced in offense / defense.

I'll have to try one out if I ever get ahold of another genie, only have two right now and I can't quite afford to restat either.

Sylvae - Sanctuary

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I use a bit of a hybrid, 50 Magic that way I'm not waiting ages for my genie to get energy. I sacrifice a bit of effectiveness but I've had it pay off. I've never made use of a Mag/Vit genie only Str and Dex.

I thought that was usual in high str or dex built genies. Max Str/Dex, enough vit for skills (usually 135), all the rest magic. Use genie gear to alleviate any deificiencies.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »

I thought that was usual in high str or dex built genies. Max Str/Dex, enough vit for skills (usually 135), all the rest magic. Use genie gear to alleviate any deificiencies.

A lot of people I know pump pure strength or dex, I know a handful that don't. Maybe I"ll take a look at people's genies to see what they're packing, but I've seen quite a few people complain about slow regen while having 100+ in their respective stat.

TheDan - Sanctuary

Eh, I wouldn't go past 90 str/dex otherwise the time it takes to use doesn't make it worth the longer wait for barely more potency. I see a bunch of those 110+ STR/DEX genies and don't get why anyone would use them because they take so damn long to use that you wouldn't be able to combo them with anything.

CapnK - Sanctuary

Cloud Eruption is a strength skill, not a dex one.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

CapnK - Sanctuary wrote: »

Cloud Eruption is a strength skill, not a dex one.

Indeed it is, but strength doesn't really affect how useful it is by a large margin. I've found more use for it on a dex genie personally, seeing as it has more low energy options whereas a strength genie is mostly used for Occult, which requires 80 energy.

TheDan - Sanctuary

Cloud eruption can really be used on any genie, just less likely to be used in a 1v1 though (actually unnecessary in 1v1 along with Holy Path unless you have a high LP genie with extra skills you're not using). The only time I'm able to spam it often enough to be worth it's energy cost is with a high MAG genie.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Well...Ive tried some strength genies, dex genies, hybrid genies, compared notes, tried chi siphon, etc. I ended up with this for PvP:

Zeal
86/100
STR 5
DEX 3
VIT 35
MAG 137
(3.74 Regen)

Will Surge 10
Holy Path 10
AD 10
Fortify 1
Whirlwind 1
Cloud Eruption 1
Cant Decide

Bottom line is, I can't live without Will Surge. There is too many situations where I need the damn skill. Venos, BMs, and especially Psys torching my rushes with seals is a no for me.

Past that, I love my regen. A spark every 35 seconds is huge to me. Being able to get enough energy to dump at a spark or a bunch of holy path, then whirlwind, or be able to Will Surge is a big deal to me as well.

Even though we have Will of Bod, I have too many times where it is in cooldown, don't have the chi, but need to use IG - Fortify I feel is a must. It also helps me break stun locks when timed well.

I still cant decide what I want for my last slot. Totally at a loss.

I've tried TE, but don't really remember to use it and Im usually wanting to do something else when that arises or it wasnt enough. I tried wind shield for a bit and never used it really effectively, kinda same problem as TE where it wasn't really enough and Im better off running.

Mire and EP is cool, but again limited and when it would be nice...my genie is empty or Im better off spending the full genie on CE or AD.

I've been debating Reflective Aura again, but its at a point of not sure I could use or incorporate it.

TheDan - Sanctuary

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well...Ive tried some strength genies, dex genies, hybrid genies, compared notes, tried chi siphon, etc. I ended up with this for PvP:

Zeal
86/100
STR 5
DEX 3
VIT 35
MAG 137
(3.74 Regen)

Will Surge 10
Holy Path 10
AD 10
Fortify 1
Whirlwind 1
Cloud Eruption 1
Cant Decide

Bottom line is, I can't live without Will Surge. There is too many situations where I need the damn skill. Venos, BMs, and especially Psys torching my rushes with seals is a no for me.

Past that, I love my regen. A spark every 35 seconds is huge to me. Being able to get enough energy to dump at a spark or a bunch of holy path, then whirlwind, or be able to Will Surge is a big deal to me as well.

Even though we have Will of Bod, I have too many times where it is in cooldown, don't have the chi, but need to use IG - Fortify I feel is a must. It also helps me break stun locks when timed well.

I still cant decide what I want for my last slot. Totally at a loss.

I've tried TE, but don't really remember to use it and Im usually wanting to do something else when that arises or it wasnt enough. I tried wind shield for a bit and never used it really effectively, kinda same problem as TE where it wasn't really enough and Im better off running.

Mire and EP is cool, but again limited and when it would be nice...my genie is empty or Im better off spending the full genie on CE or AD.

I've been debating Reflective Aura again, but its at a point of not sure I could use or incorporate it.

I have really similar stats on my genie:

Zeal:

85/100
STR 6
DEX 3
VIT 86
MAG 100
(3.0 Regen)

Will Surge 10
Holy Path 10
AD 10
Fortify 1
Whirlwind 1
Cloud Eruption 1
Tangling Mire 10

Only reason I'd recommend getting Tangling Mire is if you up your VIT so you can combo Tangling Mire with BT or HF without giving up AD or Cloud immediately right after or right before. Reflective Aura only lasts like 2 seconds unless you have a STR genie so I'd advise against it. True Emptiness is also pretty useless unless you have a STR genie. Your next best bet might be Tree of Protection / Heart of Steel if you really can't find anything else to tack onto your genie.

Jaabg - Sanctuary

Reflective aura

Seems to work better with mag marrow, than with either phy marrow or just bell alone.

Reflective aura has the potential to one shot people with 6~12k hp, when tested.

Reflective aura = timing issue, mine is 6~7 seconds long. I use it in nw, when i am being hit left and right. I rarely see big numbers in nw with reflective aura if i remember to use it.

Higher the magic hit, bigger the return, hence going back to timing issues. In NW, hard to get the camera right in that 1~5 seconds before you die due to all hell breaking loose on you.

I have not tried it in pve yet.

Final say - it requires an awesome net connection, awesome pc with no lag, really know animations, good reflexes to make this skill shine. If any one of the above is missing, chances are you won't like the skill, like me. In squad chat i have damage numbers showing, as soon as i see casters being my main attack, i hit this skill. I deal back 2~5k damage to each caster attacking me before dying.

T_i_m - Dreamweaver

I've been running high-mag genies on both my BM and psy for awhile. Yes, they are lackluster 1v1 but let's face it, 1v1 doesn't matter.

35-40 vit
~125 magic

Wind shield (damage reduction and aps boost since I hotswap armor)
Will surge
Holy path
Cloud eruption

Now for the controversial skills

Oxygen bubble
Heart of steel
Soul of fire

Admittedly sof is almost useless unless you have a wiz stacking debuffs on you, or you need to stay inside an invul wizzy's DB (say on the crystal). The other skills however... Oxy bubble negates half a psychic's skills, buying you time, and can also break you out of an occult ice sin's lock if you time it. Also stops bids. Heart of steel is effective vs seekers, clerics and archers. Timing is everything with these skills, but they last longer than AD, have shorter cd's and use less energy. I stand by my ele immune skills in mass pk and my only regret is that I can't get earth immunity to block earth vector. Darn wizzies.

Edit: yes, I originally built it for pulling warsong (and TM lunar back when I actually did those) and it really shines there too.

poontanglover

I use a hybrid genie that looks like this atm

Zeal
87/100

Str: 91
Dex: 3
Vit: 58
Mag: 51

Absolute Domain 10
Tree of Protection 10
True emptiness 10
Will Surge 10
Holy Path 10
Tangling Mire 10
Occult Ice 10


I use this primarily for support i swap out mire from time to time for whirlwhind. I haven't tried using a dex based genie or pure spam genie on my bm yet. This overall works for me in terms of defense and survivabilty. Most of the other skills I don't feel would help me survive longer. Although I am open to suggestions on what could help (outside of breaking stuns). I've considered balance and reflective aura and can restat this genie to accomadate those. Chi has never been an issue for me due to me being sage (awaits the potential flaming), so cloud isn't totally needed for me because even after using all my stuns dg etc etc i'm good on chi supply.