Vortex vs. Edged Blur on boss

Melistak - Lothranis
Melistak - Lothranis Posts: 1 Arc User
edited March 2013 in Seeker
Tank asked me to use Vortex on boss. My point is - it costs 2 spark like Blur but I cannot rebuld my chi. Is he right or maybe my old way - Blur and next spam short spelled skills to rebulid chi, still doing good damag - is better? Is it really Vortex useful on single target, whilst similar lvl to Blur?
What give me biger damage IN TOTAL, during the whole fight, no in one min.
Post edited by Melistak - Lothranis on
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  • TieIer - Dreamweaver
    TieIer - Dreamweaver Posts: 180 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Melistak - Lothranis wrote: »
    Tank asked me to use Vortex on boss. My point is - it costs 2 spark like Blur but I cannot rebuld my chi. Is he right or maybe my old way - Blur and next spam short spelled skills to rebulid chi, still doing good damag - is better? Is it really Vortex useful on single target, whilst similar lvl to Blur?
    What give me biger damage IN TOTAL, during the whole fight, no in one min.

    vortex gives u more damage you should be able to use both at the same time thats what i do or sometime i use angels then vortex
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  • Walpurga - Dreamweaver
    Walpurga - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,028 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    por que no los dos?

    Edged blur-cloud eruption/chi pot-vortex
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  • Niobus - Archosaur
    Niobus - Archosaur Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    if you tank - vortex (edge Blur doesn't generate agro at all)

    if you don't tank I myself tend to play a more debuffing role than simply vortex... I think it helps if I decrease the bosses def lvl as often as I can(Northernsky walz for 20 and a combination of Sacrificial Slash/qpq for another 20-30, depending on your gear)
    On bosses you also can consider your summons. They have a nice buff and are not nerved against Bosses, which makes them hit hard.
    Another thing to consider: Vortex generates agro. So in my case (R9), I need to be a bit carefull if I don't wana end up as Tank when I use Vortex all the time... Might be, that I don't keep the agro all the time but even for a moment - stealing agro can be bad.. (Most clerics don't like switching Tanks by the way)
  • burningsweetfire
    burningsweetfire Posts: 142 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Melistak - Lothranis wrote: »
    Tank asked me to use Vortex on boss. My point is - it costs 2 spark like Blur but I cannot rebuld my chi. Is he right or maybe my old way - Blur and next spam short spelled skills to rebulid chi, still doing good damag - is better? Is it really Vortex useful on single target, whilst similar lvl to Blur?
    What give me biger damage IN TOTAL, during the whole fight, no in one min.

    Keep Cloud Eruption on your genie, and once you vortex, just cloud erupt and your vortex should last you till the second cloud erupt. You will be more efficient if you become sage for 50 chi for every 60 seconds. I wouldn't waste spark edge blurring, it's a PVP skill, but vortex will help you deal the maximum amount of damage as possible (remember to debuff before vortex). I doubt vortex would keep agro from aps sins even at your level, but your damage would rival probably as second highest damage dealer.
  • soundslegit
    soundslegit Posts: 472 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Melistak - Lothranis wrote: »
    Tank asked me to use Vortex on boss. My point is - it costs 2 spark like Blur but I cannot rebuld my chi. Is he right or maybe my old way - Blur and next spam short spelled skills to rebulid chi, still doing good damag - is better? Is it really Vortex useful on single target, whilst similar lvl to Blur?
    What give me biger damage IN TOTAL, during the whole fight, no in one min.

    Vortex will always be your best damage dealing skill. The reason seekers don't always use it is mostly they get tired of spending 200K an hour in Herb pots to keep it up. Also in a strong squad with good DDers keeping the NSW debuff constantly on the boss can lead to greater overall damage being done. After 100 you can add reapplying the SS debuff for 15 out of every 30 seconds to that.

    If your gonna spend all that money on pots always use the Heartshatter debuff and the soulsever debuff first. Get your money's worth.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ISpinYouDrop - Raging Tide
    ISpinYouDrop - Raging Tide Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    spark gemini with hf. boss dead. no vortex or eb
  • IHaxJoo - Raging Tide
    IHaxJoo - Raging Tide Posts: 531 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    ISpinYouDrop - Raging Tide wrote: »
    spark gemini with hf. boss dead. no vortex or eb

    It's a rare sight to see you around these parts MR!!
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  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    ISpinYouDrop - Raging Tide wrote: »
    spark gemini with hf. boss dead. no vortex or eb

    I agree with this. Vortex is mediocre damage for idiot seekers on EZ mode that haven't learned how to cycle their dd. Your squad gets much higher dps in most cases by you doing nothing other than debuffing and then sitting out.

    Consider just using Northern Sky Waltz, auto attacking, and debuffing for -20 def levels. This 20% bboost in damage will then be amplified by HF, mires, EPs, Amps... At which point you've helped 5 people do way more damage than you alone could have done with vortex.

    Add in Sacrificial Slash+Qpq. Now the boss is debuff 40-60 def levels and you've gained 20-30 attack levels.

    Add in your shatters for skills boosts. Now the non-apsing classes are hitting 30-50% harder, including yourself.

    Add in Soulsever for -10 attack level debuff to boss for the tank.

    Use Blade Affinity and spam your skills. You'll be doing waaaay more damage than vortex while saving sparks, metal debuffing for yourself, clerics, and archers, and using your heavier hitting skills like Gemini.



    Every time I see a seeker vortex on a boss I think "what and idiot." All the above combos take about 5-8 seconds to apply and you can even triple spark in there. With combos like those you're going to help your squad do about 70% more damage while amping your own like crazy too. I use +6 Morai swords and I've hit the Aba boss for 350k damage regularly, almost 3 shoting the boss.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Daruvial - Sanctuary
    Daruvial - Sanctuary Posts: 277 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I agree with this. Vortex is mediocre damage for idiot seekers on EZ mode that haven't learned how to cycle their dd. Your squad gets much higher dps in most cases by you doing nothing other than debuffing and then sitting out.

    Consider just using Northern Sky Waltz, auto attacking, and debuffing for -20 def levels. This 20% bboost in damage will then be amplified by HF, mires, EPs, Amps... At which point you've helped 5 people do way more damage than you alone could have done with vortex.

    Add in Sacrificial Slash+Qpq. Now the boss is debuff 40-60 def levels and you've gained 20-30 attack levels.

    Add in your shatters for skills boosts. Now the non-apsing classes are hitting 30-50% harder, including yourself.

    Add in Soulsever for -10 attack level debuff to boss for the tank.

    Use Blade Affinity and spam your skills. You'll be doing waaaay more damage than vortex while saving sparks, metal debuffing for yourself, clerics, and archers, and using your heavier hitting skills like Gemini.



    Every time I see a seeker vortex on a boss I think "what and idiot." All the above combos take about 5-8 seconds to apply and you can even triple spark in there. With combos like those you're going to help your squad do about 70% more damage while amping your own like crazy too. I use +6 Morai swords and I've hit the Aba boss for 350k damage regularly, almost 3 shoting the boss.

    stop posting on the seeker forums like you know what you are talking about when you clearly dont.
  • Niobus - Archosaur
    Niobus - Archosaur Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    @Daruvial I disagree with you... Might be a BM Avatar, but what he posted is true still... Yes vortex is the highest hitting skill but not the only skill seeker got. I myself do almost the same as he wrote, in case I am not the tank and it usually gives nice dmg output...

    For me seekers that ONLY vortex and don't do the stances or other skills when they are needed are simply fail.. Sorry if I say so, but Seekers are more than Vortex babys.

    Just the 350k dmg I would say are pure exaguration.. 100k I believe, but 350k are way to high for the morei G15+6, when I even hardly reach 200k with R9+6...
  • Daruvial - Sanctuary
    Daruvial - Sanctuary Posts: 277 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Niobus - Archosaur wrote: »
    @Daruvial I disagree with you... Might be a BM Avatar, but what he posted is true still... Yes vortex is the highest hitting skill but not the only skill seeker got. I myself do almost the same as he wrote, in case I am not the tank and it usually gives nice dmg output...

    For me seekers that ONLY vortex and don't do the stances or other skills when they are needed are simply fail.. Sorry if I say so, but Seekers are more than Vortex babys.

    Just the 350k dmg I would say are pure exaguration.. 100k I believe, but 350k are way to high for the morei G15+6, when I even hardly reach 200k with R9+6...

    its called debuffing and then setting up vortex..
  • sirrawrsalots
    sirrawrsalots Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Daruvial - Sanctuary wrote: »
    its called debuffing and then setting up vortex..

    NSW and Sac. Slash do not last long enough you use to vortex, and dropping and reapplying it is just an imprudent use of sparks. Heart/Mind shatter should last an entire boss fight, you'd be better off going through cycles of your faster casting skills and using blade affinity and adding in your stronger and slower hitting skills.
  • Daruvial - Sanctuary
    Daruvial - Sanctuary Posts: 277 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    sirrawrsalots wrote: »
    NSW and Sac. Slash do not last long enough you use to vortex, and dropping and reapplying it is just an imprudent use of sparks. Heart/Mind shatter should last an entire boss fight, you'd be better off going through cycles of your faster casting skills and using blade affinity and adding in your stronger and slower hitting skills.

    heart shatter with vortex alone will out damage spamming skills.also just use soulsever instead of nsw.
  • Colum - Raging Tide
    Colum - Raging Tide Posts: 1,696 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Daruvial my main ain't a seeker and even I know a bit more about seeker debuffing than you.

    Sac. slash + other debuffs (shattrs + NSW) ease the damage output of OTHER SQUAD, no one cares a **** how much you outdamage skill spamming with your own vortex, the overall damage is what matters on bosses and also timing short lasting debuffs with thers' debuffs (amp, HF, devour you name it)

    What comes to soulsever.. lol. If you have a barbarian in squad the atk lvl reduce curse gets overwritten by more powerful effect (sage/demon devour) so IMO its a waste of time to use soulsever minuet when a barbarian is in squad.
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  • Daruvial - Sanctuary
    Daruvial - Sanctuary Posts: 277 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Daruvial my main ain't a seeker and even I know a bit more about seeker debuffing than you.

    Sac. slash + other debuffs (shattrs + NSW) ease the damage output of OTHER SQUAD, no one cares a **** how much you outdamage skill spamming with your own vortex, the overall damage is what matters on bosses and also timing short lasting debuffs with thers' debuffs (amp, HF, devour you name it)

    What comes to soulsever.. lol. If you have a barbarian in squad the atk lvl reduce curse gets overwritten by more powerful effect (sage/demon devour) so IMO its a waste of time to use soulsever minuet when a barbarian is in squad.

    this is about damage dealing who cares if the atk lvl reduction gets overwritten. unless you're with a squad of people that outgear you majorly you're better off using you're debuffs and then setting up vortex.
  • Niobus - Archosaur
    Niobus - Archosaur Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    this is about damage dealing who cares if the atk lvl reduction gets overwritten. unless you're with a squad of people that outgear you majorly you're better off using you're debuffs and then setting up vortex.

    If you are the only rrr9+12 and the rest is R8 even than you will do more dmg all together when you debuff def lvl.. Yes YOU wont be the one and only shining knight that killed the boss nearly alone, but thats what you do in a squat, you don't only think about yourself but also, how can I amplify the others or help them survive... And that sometimes includes more thinking than just where to open vortex...
  • Daruvial - Sanctuary
    Daruvial - Sanctuary Posts: 277 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Niobus - Archosaur wrote: »
    If you are the only rrr9+12 and the rest is R8 even than you will do more dmg all together when you debuff def lvl.. Yes YOU wont be the one and only shining knight that killed the boss nearly alone, but thats what you do in a squat, you don't only think about yourself but also, how can I amplify the others or help them survive... And that sometimes includes more thinking than just where to open vortex...

    why everything now is about getting it done as fast as you can also if im the one tanking no one else needs to be worried about surviving.
  • Niobus - Archosaur
    Niobus - Archosaur Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    If I where a Psych/Wiz/Archer/BM/sin/barb and a seeker is tanking I would start worring and drastically reduce my dmg output to not steal agro..
    For example for Psych I heared from my friend that he even with a lvl95 Morei +2 got agro from a R9 seeker out of vortex... So I think you got the concept. Vortex is nice, but seeker getting agro is just in case you don't have another tank and than all other DD classes need to turn down their dmg...

    And btw, we started the discussion about the DD-Aspect, not the tanking. If you tank its a different thing. Than vortex indeed is your best chance to keep agro, but still its not as good as barb or a sin (with decend APS)...
  • Daruvial - Sanctuary
    Daruvial - Sanctuary Posts: 277 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Niobus - Archosaur wrote: »
    If I where a Psych/Wiz/Archer/BM/sin/barb and a seeker is tanking I would start worring and drastically reduce my dmg output to not steal agro..
    For example for Psych I heared from my friend that he even with a lvl95 Morei +2 got agro from a R9 seeker out of vortex... So I think you got the concept. Vortex is nice, but seeker getting agro is just in case you don't have another tank and than all other DD classes need to turn down their dmg...

    And btw, we started the discussion about the DD-Aspect, not the tanking. If you tank its a different thing. Than vortex indeed is your best chance to keep agro, but still its not as good as barb or a sin (with decend APS)...

    first of all why would you worry that your tanking on a seeker? are you that squishy? second your friend lied that isn't possible. i tank all my bh's on seeker other then metal i cant keep agro from a sin or a high refined bm there.. and yes i vortex all of them except aba which is the most troublesome to keep agro in.. i wonder why.
  • Niobus - Archosaur
    Niobus - Archosaur Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I'll stop trying to teach you things you obviously don't wana hear...

    For my friend: He is not lying and I think of him as a more experienced player than you are (he is playing PW for at least 5 years and is good at the chars he is playing), so I trust his word. And I know from my own experience that it is possible to steal agro out of vortex, even with my R9+6. Might be sth. else with recast 3 +12.. But even than ppl will come which are equaly geared and they will steal agro...
  • Daruvial - Sanctuary
    Daruvial - Sanctuary Posts: 277 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Niobus - Archosaur wrote: »
    I'll stop trying to teach you things you obviously don't wana hear...

    For my friend: He is not lying and I think of him as a more experienced player than you are (he is playing PW for at least 5 years and is good at the chars he is playing), so I trust his word. And I know from my own experience that it is possible to steal agro out of vortex, even with my R9+6. Might be sth. else with recast 3 +12.. But even than ppl will come which are equaly geared and they will steal agro...

    you teach me? are you joking? lol
  • Deceptistar - Sanctuary
    Deceptistar - Sanctuary Posts: 10,454 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    diff. squads and diff. environments require diff. methods so... daru does have a point. To say that one method is superior because that person is naive and dont know how to play just says that those pple are naive themselves >_>
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  • IHaxJoo - Raging Tide
    IHaxJoo - Raging Tide Posts: 531 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Here's how to deal the most damage while also making sure all your squadmates do the max damage possible. Works against any boss, any environment, anything anywhere anytime.

    soulsever + shatter + r8r sword + def lvl blessing + crimson soul powder + sac slash + qpq + r9/g16 + attack lvl blessing + blade afinity + gemini + edged blur + vortex + frenzy + 30 secs + get out of vortex + northern sky waltz + r8r sword + def lvl blessing + sac slash + qpq + r9/g16 + attack lvl blessing + blade affinity + staggering strike + edged blur + cloud eruption + send pet/vortex + frenzy/extreme poison + repeat + repeat + repeat + repeat

    Throw in blood-thirsty blitz every now and then and even barbs will have trouble holding aggro then. Only sins or bms with aps can take aggro from us in this case.
    You're welcome.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Niobus - Archosaur
    Niobus - Archosaur Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Hax, I agree with you. The dmg output of that chain is really good...
  • Father_gold - Sanctuary
    Father_gold - Sanctuary Posts: 449 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    IHaxJoo - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Here's how to deal the most damage while also making sure all your squadmates do the max damage possible. Works against any boss, any environment, anything anywhere anytime.

    soulsever + shatter + r8r sword + def lvl blessing + crimson soul powder + sac slash + qpq + r9/g16 + attack lvl blessing + blade afinity + gemini + edged blur + vortex + frenzy + 30 secs + get out of vortex + northern sky waltz + r8r sword + def lvl blessing + sac slash + qpq + r9/g16 + attack lvl blessing + blade affinity + staggering strike + edged blur + cloud eruption + send pet/vortex + frenzy/extreme poison + repeat + repeat + repeat + repeat

    Throw in blood-thirsty blitz every now and then and even barbs will have trouble holding aggro then. Only sins or bms with aps can take aggro from us in this case.
    You're welcome.

    is this tekken with the 10-hit combos~! LOL that chain bro~!!!!
  • IHaxJoo - Raging Tide
    IHaxJoo - Raging Tide Posts: 531 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Father_gold - Sanctuary wrote: »
    is this tekken with the 10-hit combos~! LOL that chain bro~!!!!

    This chain is very easy to do though. It just takes common sense of what our skills do. b:thanks
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Father_gold - Sanctuary
    Father_gold - Sanctuary Posts: 449 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    IHaxJoo - Raging Tide wrote: »
    This chain is very easy to do though. It just takes common sense of what our skills do. b:thanks

    naw i respect the effort put into forming that, one does not normally encounter a r9+ who would need to master that sort of skill chaining.

    my game is normally a bit skill laggy lately, i don't know if other people get that. i've checked and rechecked files too. i dont think i could pull off that combo on by best day with the gear swapping.

    i used to argue with daru over vortex or no, i've done my own tests and i think as long as you lay the debuffs down first, either option performs just as well for the amount on mana you are spending.

    sometimes i just vortex and spam genie skills after the first round of debuffs. sometimes i skill and try to maintain stance debuffs, to me it really depends on what else is in the squad.

    i havent got SS yet so i dont play around with QPQ as much as i should, but when i get my full ha g16 done i will be spending more time on seeker.
  • Daruvial - Sanctuary
    Daruvial - Sanctuary Posts: 277 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    IHaxJoo - Raging Tide wrote: »
    This chain is very easy to do though. It just takes common sense of what our skills do. b:thanks

    common sense is a rare thing on pwi..
  • Alsiadorra - Sanctuary
    Alsiadorra - Sanctuary Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Edged Blur would be sooooo much better than Vortex for bosses if not for the fact that it doesn't generate aggro. I still campaign for this! Make edged blur generate aggro, and we can tank easier.
    IHaxJoo - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Here's how to deal the most damage while also making sure all your squadmates do the max damage possible. Works against any boss, any environment, anything anywhere anytime.

    soulsever + shatter + r8r sword + def lvl blessing + crimson soul powder + sac slash + qpq + r9/g16 + attack lvl blessing + blade afinity + gemini + edged blur + vortex + frenzy + 30 secs + get out of vortex + northern sky waltz + r8r sword + def lvl blessing + sac slash + qpq + r9/g16 + attack lvl blessing + blade affinity + staggering strike + edged blur + cloud eruption + send pet/vortex + frenzy/extreme poison + repeat + repeat + repeat + repeat

    Throw in blood-thirsty blitz every now and then and even barbs will have trouble holding aggro then. Only sins or bms with aps can take aggro from us in this case.
    You're welcome.
    Thats what I do but with R91 and plain ol' R9 gear. It looks really crazy when its written down but feels so natural when actually doing it in the game.
  • Kittysama - Raging Tide_1432680721
    Kittysama - Raging Tide_1432680721 Posts: 651 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I prefer Edged Blur over Vortex on bosses.
    My favourite combo on my seek(Aivina the lvl 90 str/vit seeker with TT90 Gold blade for zerk) on bosses:

    Soulsever on and chi full when starting: Heartshatter-(attacks until S.sever on)-NSW-(more attacks until NSW on)-sage spark-BA-Tangling Mire from genie-Staggering Strike-Ion Spike-Extreme Poison from genie-Gemini Slash-repeat from getting soulsever on, without spark or Ion Spike until chi full again(if it even has time to get full before boss is dead)

    Been testing it couple times on test dummy and this far highest hit(critted without zerk) has been about 118k. Waiting to test it with BMs in FC some time. Or against Pole when he's given my seek his debuff so I could QPQ it backb:victory

    I wouldn't use Vortex on boss unless I'm tanking and squad having another seeker to debuff. Using CE(insted of genie debuffs) for Edged Blur between BA and Staggering strike for my combo to deal better dmg and help others too(def lvl deboofs from triggering ftw).
    And Vortex has the weakness of getting interrupted by sleep at times(or like Dreadindra, gets interrupted 1 sec after casting just 'cause boss ish a meanie) Oh the waste of sparks b:cry
    On AoEless bosses like Oceania Master just gotta autoattack-Staggering Strike when NSW on boss and sometimes spark-NSW'd Staggering Strike-Autoattack. Let the sins do dmg thereb:surrender

    And when sacrislash acquired at 100, switching to IHaxJoo'ish combo. Looks so smexy.
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