Remove added glitches, please.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary
Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
edited February 2013 in General Discussion
PWI has a horrible record for not fixing glitches. Despite constant QQ many still exist that have existed since the start of the game with no point in being fixed. The excuse always being that PWI programming is handed down from PW in China and its them that are ignoring the glitches.

But since I've been playing two programming changes have been made specifically to PWI and to no other PW versions. The removal of Channel Canceling and the reduction of damage and a forced accuracy miss when attacking 4.0 or faster. Due to massive QQ about "OP sins" and aps in general they changed the game mechanics so that skill effects proc at different times than they used to and still do in other versions, and that your damage changes if you attack 4 or 5 aps. These were intentional glitches added to the game to satisfy people complaining. I think its time they were changed back.

Channel Canceling
In other versions of PWI buffs are applied during channeling so that they are active during casting. An example is sage Fissure applying a fire debuff to the mob even before Fissure lands, same with demon Wield Thunder applying a metal debuff, or the initial attack on Power Dash criting with the 40% proc rate.

This skill was slightly abused, primarily by sins and BMs. A BM could channel cancel (cc) skills like cyclone heel and get the attack speed increase without full casting the skill. It would still cost mp. It would still take some time to cast, but not the full 2 seconds. But it wouldn't "cast' and do any damage. The same could be done with demon Glacial Spike for a 50% chance at a crit rate increase, but since the skill never cast it wouldn't use sparks, debuff the opponent, or do any damage.

The real problem was sins in stealth were at one point able to Triple Spark and cc Power Dash while in stealth and come out of it doing 500% weapon damage with +40% crit rate. Removing cc didn't quite solve the problem so they then removed triple sparking from stealth mode but still left cc altered.

CCing was a skill that took precise timing, ate mana, if performed wrong would eat time and sparks. In other versions of the game its a valuable part of pk and something that seperates skilled players from gear based players. I have spent hours at the start of TT practicing my timing and chains of cc based skills, rechiing up when they fail. In pk its much more difficult with the pressure of an opponent, correct positioning, and your opponent using control skills.

When PWI went to compete in the PWIC against other version they were at a significant disadvantage. Other version of the 'real' PW left ccing as it was intentionally designed, so that the buff procced prior to the skill hitting. Our pk team had little chance to practice this skill.

Aps Nerf
Aps was a complaint for a long time. Some call it a glitch, and it really is not. Calling it an exploit may be true, but high aps characters are just taking advantage of how the game was designed. The majority of heavy QQers don't seem to understand how aps works so I'll try to simply explain real quickly.

Aps=attacks per second or attack/sec. The game actually uses sec/attack (s/a) and then displays the aps to us. So 2 aps is actually an attack every .5 seconds, and to increase that you lower the seconds per attack for a faster attack speed. This growth is exponential. So everytime you get a piece of -.05 int gear you increase a larger amount then the previous piece of -.05 gear. Axes and fists start with the same average attack damage, but fist damage grows more than axe damage because it starts farther on the exponential growth curve.

There is no exploit here. Attack speeds go from .7, .65, .6, .55, .5, .45, .4... Its a linear attack speed increase that happens to give exponential growth and is perfectly how the game damage was designed.... Until you hit 4.0 and suddenly there is a damage and accuracy nerf from completely nowhere that was added for no reason.

I understand the point was to make soloing more difficult for aps characters. Well, Nirvana is basically dead. Seat and Aba have 2 new "anti aps" bosses and Aba is still easiest when apsing. There were no changes made to the bosses made that drop books, or to the tt bosses. And G16 gear came out so our dps took a 10k hit then jumped 50k with G16 aps pieces. A glitch was added to the game that changes our dph if we hit too fast but for no reason.

Even more odd is the accuracy glitch. It's a forced miss. This means no amount of dexterity or + accuracy gear with make up for our lowered accuracy, we just glitch a miss while getting chi for it. For every person attacking with magic or below 4.0 a pdef debuff or tangling mire will glitch the accuracy to be 100%. But the 4+ apser will hit 100% of the time and then glitch a miss. This makes no sense.

The nerf to aps does not effect pk substantially. Almost no one does 4.0 base as the gear required to get this aps has lower defenses and you become a glass cannon. In otherwords, in pk, there is no point for this nerf to exist.


Conclusion
PWI is glitchy enough without intentionally adding glitches to satisfy public QQ. There are as many people who dislike the dps that -int gear allows as people who enjoy, have spent hundreds to thousands of dollars towards, and use -int gear. For 99% of us it didn't change gameplay at all, the only people it hurt were the people who just barely had enough defense that it made a difference and a few more refines or higher grade gear fixed that.

Trends for aps in pk have disappeared so keeping this glitch is a non factor. However, ccing was a major factor in pk, but only about 10% of us spent enough time bothering to learn how to do it and it added another dimension to the game. Furthermore it is available to all classes.

Caster gear has come a long way. They are nearly impossible to compete with in events and have significant advantages in pk. Not every class needs to shine in every aspect. Sins/BMs shine in dps. We cannot grind as quickly as casters making events more difficult, and in pk they start hitting us 35m prior to us reaching them. An aps nerf is similar to asking caster range to be cut down to 15m, or to receive a dph nerf if they get above +8 refines or 15k base damage. They already recieve a damage multiplier for every 100 points magic, while every other class receives a damage mutlipler every 150 points. This in itself is an exponential growth favoring casters endgame.

Anyone can play any class, any way they want. If a person thought aps gave a significant advantage for farming to a sin, they have the option of playing a sin. As it was, the same people who complained about people being able to solo TT enjoyed the benefits of cheaper mats because someone farmed the mats for them.

These glitches have been implemented for almost 2 year. Many people don't even remember them or know they're playing with these bugs. Why keep them around? Why not remove the added programming that creates the glitch and put us on level with other versions of pw?
Post edited by Sakubatou - Sanctuary on
Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
«13

Comments

  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    When PWI went to compete in the PWIC against other version they were at a significant disadvantage. Other version of the 'real' PW left ccing as it was intentionally designed, so that the buff procced prior to the skill hitting. Our pk team had little chance to practice this skill.

    Our PWIC team lost because they were chosen for their PVE ability.
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  • HaiYou - Lost City
    HaiYou - Lost City Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Our PWIC team lost because they were chosen for their PVE ability.

    Not quite 100% true. Several were consistent pkers on Lost City and knew how to play their characters better than others.
  • FateBlade - Lost City
    FateBlade - Lost City Posts: 519 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Our PWIC team lost because they were chosen for their PVE ability.


    b:laugh
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Our PWIC team lost because they were chosen for their PVE ability.

    Best team on the server was determined by group pvp. Only the qualifier between servers was PvE. And srsly, if you can't figure out how to take down Harpy Wraith with an OP squad...

    I'm also a big believe that pve knowledge is a huge part of pvp knowledge. You know how many heavy pvpers I run across that don't know **** about their class because they rushed to 100 then bough +10 r9+ with excellent shards and learned the 5 skills they need to pk most the time? Love those guys because its nice to take down someone with a couple bil more in their gear than you.

    But I totally agree good in pve=/= good in pvp. I just think it gives an excellent base.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Not quite 100% true. Several were consistent pkers on Lost City and knew how to play their characters better than others.

    Fine they were chosen over other servers for their PVE ability.

    They wouldn't have been able to kill harpy the fastest without an APS sin and the sin proved worthless in the real PWIC where everyone had identical R9 gear.
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  • Annalyse - Heavens Tear
    Annalyse - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,618 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    CCing was not a skill. It was a glitch, and they fixed it. Why should you be allowed to get the benefits of a skill without consuming the sparks that skill requires? I'd love to be able to cancel sage BIDS on my wiz and still get a 30% crit rate increase while saving two sparks... but that's not the way things are supposed to work.

    As far as the APS nerf.... I have a 5APS BM and the difference is barely noticeable. She still kills bosses just as fast as she ever did. To be honest I don't really see why they implemented this change as it seems to have no major effect on anything.
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  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    - CC is a glitch. In order to get any and all benefits of a skill, you should be required to pay all costs, including full channel / cast / sparks / MP / have the correct weapon equipped. I acknowledge that it takes skill to exploit this glitch, but nonetheless it is glitch exploitation. Instead of restoring the glitch in our version, they should fix the glitch in other versions.

    - APS Nerf: Are you certain of the forced miss? I did duration tests on the APS nerf and plotted graphs of my times. Here's a link of my findings: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=16198201#post16198201 . Best theorycrafting was done by Maelael: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=16117521#post16117521 . The end conclusion is that the APS nerf is fairly meaningless in PvE.
  • Jesusisback - Raging Tide
    Jesusisback - Raging Tide Posts: 480 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    We all know aps nerf doesn't affect PvE
  • Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,385 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Not quite 100% true. Several were consistent pkers on Lost City and knew how to play their characters better than others.

    They knew how to play their characters better than others by out gearing the others. When everyone had the same gear level... only differentiation comes down to skill/timing.
    1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
    2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
    3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.

    Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf
  • SylenThunder - Twilight Temple
    SylenThunder - Twilight Temple Supprot Guru Posts: 7,908
    edited February 2013
    Fixes are in red.
    <Blah Blah Blah>PWI has a horrible record for not fixing glitches. Despite constant QQ many still exist that have existed since the start of the game with no point in being fixed. The excuse always being that PWI programming is handed down from PW in China and its them that are ignoring the glitches.</Blah Blah Blah>

    But since I've been playing two programming changes have been made specifically to PWI and to no other PW versions. (a.k.a private servers?) The removal of Channel Canceling and the reduction of damage and a forced accuracy miss when attacking 4.0 or faster. Due to massive abuse of these glitches they fixed the game mechanics so that skill effects proc at different times than they used to and still do in private servers that use older server files and are not supported, or even condoned in some cases, by Wanmei, and that your damage changes if you attack 4 or 5 aps. These were intentional fixes added to the game to correct severe abuse of glitches that was negatively impacting the balance of the game.. I think its time they were changed back, because I'm one of those abusers and can't learn how to play the game the way it was intended.

    Channel Canceling
    In older versions of PWI buffs are applied during channeling so that they are active during casting. An example is sage Fissure applying a fire debuff to the mob even before Fissure lands, same with demon Wield Thunder applying a metal debuff, or the initial attack on Power Dash criting with the 40% proc rate.

    This glitch was heavily abused, primarily by sins and BMs. A BM could channel cancel (cc) skills like cyclone heel and get the attack speed increase without full casting the skill. It would still cost mp, but not the two sparks for the skill. It would still take some time to cast, but not the full 2 seconds. But it wouldn't "cast' and do any damage. The same could be done with demon Glacial Spike for a 50% chance at a crit rate increase, but since the skill never cast it wouldn't use sparks, debuff the opponent, or do any damage.

    The real problem was sins in stealth were at one point able to Triple Spark and cc Power Dash while in stealth and come out of it doing 500% weapon damage with +40% crit rate. Removing cc didn't quite solve the problem so they then removed triple sparking from stealth mode but still left cc altered.

    Abusing the CCing glitch was a skill that took precise timing, ate mana, if performed wrong would eat time and sparks. In older versions of the game its a valuable part of pk and something that seperates skilled players from gear based players. I have spent hours at the start of TT practicing my timing and chains of cc based skills, rechiing up when they fail, because I absolutely must be able to abuse glitches in the game to play. In pk its much more difficult with the pressure of an opponent, correct positioning, and your opponent using control skills. Especially when you don't know how to properly play your class or counter your opponent's skills.

    <incorrect and irrelevant blather>When PWI went to compete in the PWIC against other version they were at a significant disadvantage. Other version of the 'real' PW left ccing as it was intentionally designed, so that the buff procced prior to the skill hitting. Our pk team had little chance to practice this skill.</incorrect and irrelevant blather>

    Aps Nerf
    Aps was a complaint for a long time. Some call it a glitch, and it really is not. Calling it an exploit may be true, but high aps characters are just taking advantage of how the game was designed. The majority of heavy QQers don't seem to understand how aps works so I'll try to simply explain real quickly. While this may be true, the biggest problem with APS is that it breaks group mechanics. The second biggest problem with APS is that the idiots using it have no clue how to actually play their class, or stay alive when they manage to steal aggro.

    Aps=attacks per second or attack/sec. The game actually uses sec/attack (s/a) and then displays the aps to us. So 2 aps is actually an attack every .5 seconds, and to increase that you lower the seconds per attack for a faster attack speed. This growth is exponential. So everytime you get a piece of -.05 int gear you increase a larger amount then the previous piece of -.05 gear. Axes and fists start with the same average attack damage, but fist damage grows more than axe damage because it starts farther on the exponential growth curve.

    There is no exploit here. Attack speeds go from .7, .65, .6, .55, .5, .45, .4... Its a linear attack speed increase that happens to give exponential growth and is perfectly how the game damage was designed.... Until you hit 4.0 and suddenly there is a damage and accuracy nerf from completely nowhere that was added for no reason.

    I understand the point was to make soloing more difficult for aps characters. Well, Nirvana is basically dead thanks to NW, (this has absolutely nothing to do with the minor change to APS mechanics. I'm just blathering again.). Seat and Aba have 2 new "anti aps" bosses and Aba is still easiest when apsing. There were no changes made to the bosses made that drop books, or to the tt bosses. And G16 gear came out so our dps took a 10k hit then jumped 50k with G16 aps pieces. A fix was added to the game that changes our dph if we hit too fast but for no reason, to promote using skills and actually learning your class.

    Even more odd is the accuracy glitch. It's a forced miss. This means no amount of dexterity or + accuracy gear with make up for our lowered accuracy, we just glitch a miss while getting chi for it. For every person attacking with magic or below 4.0 a pdef debuff or tangling mire will glitch the accuracy to be 100%. But the 4+ apser will hit 100% of the time and then glitch a miss. This makes no sense to me because, as you are already aware, I don't really know how to play.

    The nerf to aps does not effect pk substantially. Almost no one does 4.0 base as the gear required to get this aps has lower defenses and you become a glass cannon. In otherwords, in pk, there is no point for this nerf to exist. Which is fine because it was applied primarily for PvE, and not PvP.


    Conclusion
    Blah Blah Blah, I just continue to show that I don't know how to play and can't play fair again't people that are actually familiar with their classes.
    Admittedly, I was short on the conclusion because I just got tired of the wall so I summarized.

    I am not fond of ragging on people from my server, but it's people like you tht have made the game spin in a downward spiral for the past 3 years. Learn how to play your class the way it's intended. Learn how to combat your oponents.

    I mean seriously. I'm a level 100, R8+3 marginally sharded Cleric for crying out loud and i can take down R9 Archers, BM, Veno's, and Sin's all day because the majority of the ones I come across in TW/NW/PvP don't have a freaking clue about what to do when I don't run away. With Wizards and Psy's, it's pretty much who gets the stun/power-attack in first. Barbs just have too much HP at that level for me to take them down easily, but I've done it. I have yet to run across a Mystic in PvP that really knows what they are doing, or is properly geared, so they don't last very long. (kind of sad really. Would love to see someone who has really learned this class.) Seekers just have too many Def levels, and they have decent HP to boot. They are slightly harder to drop than barbs because of their range on skills.

    And remember, I'm a mere Level 100, R8+3 PURE MAG Cleric for crying out loud. Seriously, sitting un-buffed I have about 3700hp, a pdef of 1800, a crit rate of 14%, and my base magic attack is merely 9-13k.
    It's all about knowing what your opponent is likely to do, and what you need to do to counter it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Miugre - Heavens Tear
    Miugre - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    So let me get this straight.

    You've made a thread called "remove added glitches," and the two issues you're talking about are a glitch and an exploit, respectively, that the devs has already addressed (poorly, in the case of the latter), and you're asking for them to be put back in? Because people (quite rightly) complained about them.

    So I suppose my question to you is: do you think there's nothing worth complaining about in game ever, or are you just complaining about the complainers because what they complained about benefits you? :P
    In other versions of PWI buffs are applied during channeling so that they are active during casting. An example is sage Fissure applying a fire debuff to the mob even before Fissure lands, same with demon Wield Thunder applying a metal debuff, or the initial attack on Power Dash criting with the 40% proc rate.

    This skill was slightly abused, primarily by sins and BMs. A BM could channel cancel (cc) skills like cyclone heel and get the attack speed increase without full casting the skill. It would still cost mp. It would still take some time to cast, but not the full 2 seconds. But it wouldn't "cast' and do any damage. The same could be done with demon Glacial Spike for a 50% chance at a crit rate increase, but since the skill never cast it wouldn't use sparks, debuff the opponent, or do any damage.

    The real problem was sins in stealth were at one point able to Triple Spark and cc Power Dash while in stealth and come out of it doing 500% weapon damage with +40% crit rate. Removing cc didn't quite solve the problem so they then removed triple sparking from stealth mode but still left cc altered.
    So essentially... CC was always an exploit, the devs never did anything about it until people started whining about sins, at which point they did a fix they should've done months prior. You're implying that we should revert a game mechanic back to its glitched state just because it was fixed for a totally unrelated reason? If anything, that's just a fringe benefit to the intended fix.

    But really, I had to stop reading your CC argument after this line:
    CCing was a skill
    That's like saying the old wall-walking glitch in fb39 was a "skill." CC was nothing more than a programming oversight. You can't call it a skill just because you have to hit a button at the right time in order to exploit it. >_>

    Aps was a complaint for a long time. Some call it a glitch, and it really is not. Calling it an exploit may be true, but high aps characters are just taking advantage of how the game was designed.
    [...]
    There is no exploit here. Attack speeds go from .7, .65, .6, .55, .5, .45, .4... Its a linear attack speed increase that happens to give exponential growth and is perfectly how the game damage was designed.... Until you hit 4.0 and suddenly there is a damage and accuracy nerf from completely nowhere that was added for no reason.
    The short answer is, they added that 4.0 "nerf" in order to pacify the userbase in the most clunky and unnecessary way possible. We can see how well that turned out.

    I'm aware of how aps works, but truth be told it should never have worked that way. Most stats in PWI (and most MMOs) work on either a linear rate of return (such as HP) or a law of decreasing returns (such as pdef/mdef). Aps, by contrast, works on an asymptotic return, which can get extremely broken if you use the right methods (and many people do).

    Think back to the game that the original devs were designing. In the original design, there were no Nirvana pants. -int tomes was ridiculously hard if not impossible to obtain. R8 top was in a similar category. I'm going to have to assume that the devs didn't plan on HA classes equipping LA just to stack int bonuses. I don't think we had trophy mode and we certainly didn't have packs, so WG/Lunar capes were out. So in the end... I don't know why the original devs decided to cap aps at 5, but it sure as hell wasn't because they thought people would ever acheive it.

    This puts aps in the category of programming oversight. Or perhaps more accurately, laziness; why bother to fix a stat which you can't see ever being abused with the gear that's currently available? The answer, as PWI proves, is "because you can't guarantee the gear won't be made available."

    In the end, the aps issue comes down to basic RPG design. Ask yourself: is a boss supposed to go down in five seconds? Absolutely not.
    PWI is glitchy enough without intentionally adding glitches to satisfy public QQ. There are as many people who dislike the dps that -int gear allows as people who enjoy, have spent hundreds to thousands of dollars towards, and use -int gear. For 99% of us it didn't change gameplay at all, the only people it hurt were the people who just barely had enough defense that it made a difference and a few more refines or higher grade gear fixed that.
    If you spend hundreds/thousands on game exploits, and those exploits are fixed, it's your own damn fault for paying to use exploits. This game is insufferably pay-to-win already without people demanding things just because they paid money.

    If you want to complain about casters, complain about casters. Make that the point of the thread, maybe. Focus on fixing what's broken rather than (re-)breaking what isn't.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]

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  • ErlangQR - Dreamweaver
    ErlangQR - Dreamweaver Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    LOL. Just LOL.

    First of all, something intentionally added is not a glitch.
    APS was nerfed, CC, which is a glitch, was fixed.
    Trying to persuade us that those modifications are glitches makes you look like a full ******. no offense.

    And seriously. "CC costs mana" WOW. Yes, mana is really hard to get, in fact, mana handling in pwi is really important and you must carefully choose when to spend it. Oh wait, that's chi. Now, I do think that having combos that are tricky to use and require skill is really nice (although it makes lag a huge disadvantage). But saying that CC is not a glitch and its fix is a glitch... LMAO.

    While you are at that, why don't you add the glitch with goons, how dare they remove this highly challenging advanced FC, surely it was a glitch.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    APS damage for 4.0 and 5.0 was nerfed by 5% which is unnoticeable, there is no magic 20% miss nonsense.

    The reason its not as good in PVP anymore is because they buffed the counters:
    1) Releasing better gear with more defense and attack (most aps gear is low grade g12 stuff)
    2) Adding Fortification Draught which lowers melee damage
    3) Adding skills like Arcane Defense / Blade Tornado / Archer Leaps etc.
    4) Adding Purify Spell to all third cast R9 caster weapons
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  • Decus - Dreamweaver
    Decus - Dreamweaver Posts: 5,033 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    If a skill costs sparks to cast and proc a buff, it should use the sparks. Period.
    Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
    Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    APS damage for 4.0 and 5.0 was nerfed by 5% which is unnoticeable, there is no magic 20% miss nonsense.

    The reason its not as good in PVP anymore is because they buffed the counters:
    1) Releasing better gear with more defense and attack (most aps gear is low grade g12 stuff)
    2) Adding Fortification Draught which lowers melee damage
    3) Adding skills like Arcane Defense / Blade Tornado / Archer Leaps etc.
    4) Adding Purify Spell to all third cast R9 caster weapons

    I like being able to 5.0 a sin that pops on my Archer. All I gotta do is switch to fists and start auto attack, I'm 5.0 base. Unless they have bramble, or are R9, they tend to die before they know what's going on. If they have zerk daggers, I don't stand a chance of surviviing the initial hit anyway.

    As for fixing bugs, most of them are just 'undocumented features' now. Veno/Mystic glitching will never be fixed. Teleing through doors/walls will never be fixed (and no, the disabling of such skills in BH29 is in no way a 'fix').

    If Wanmei won't fix bugs that existed in 2008, then why do you think they are going to fix newer bugs?
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  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Wow, a couple of really butthurt responses and a few with legit cricitism. I can't even quote Sylen's wall of QQ because he doesn't know how to quote properly.

    The version's I'm talking about are the Wanmei support versions, including their p2p and the chinese version of our game.

    I admit that CCing was an exploit. Was it based on a programming oversight, I don't know. I think it was intentionally put there so that effects would proc then skills would land so we'd get the skills effect as we used the skill.

    If we use a skill then sparks should be consumed. If we don't use the skill, and merely channel it, then they shouldn't be. If you get interupted trying to put up vortex you don't lose 2 sparks. It still takes time, it still consumes mana, but since you never use the skill you never use the sparks.

    I'm free to play, I know my classes (20 pages guides in the BM forum can attest to that) and I do decently in pk without CCing. I miss it, though. I spent hours learning how to properly channel and cancel my skills to use them best and it was a great balancer to people who actually spent time playing their class instead of just face roll-cash shopping their gear and derping their way through pvp.

    I can understand cash shopped players and people who don't know or understand how to play opposing this because learning how to actually play the game does give an unfair advantage to some people.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • bitewarrior
    bitewarrior Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    First, I must point out the title of your post is totally wrong, added glicth is what an actual fix is called from your point of view...bad start there buddy.b:laugh

    Secondly, you are actually saying that it is skillful to not actually skill by canceling it and that player that learn to compose with the restriction of the actual skills does not know how to play their toon. b:shocked

    Third, they actually bothered fixing something in game and god knows it is a miracle they manage to do,,,,and you want them to remove it ! b:angry

    Finally, can't you find anything better for them to actually legitimally fix in game that could benefit the community rather than yourself or exploiter.

    P.S I'm a sin and don't really care about the nerf even thought it did not warrant the change cuz it was directed to sins that was +10 and higher that came from cleric that could not learn to use their toon and use plume shell, wing protection and refine themself higher then +3 b:chuckle like they did not have a clue of future update making the onlly instance that could take advantage of it.

    I must respecfully disagree this contradicting post and objectivelly refuse to destroy the only damn thing they bothered to fix.

    P.S. On a side note plz banned all sin that SFCed to 104 dated from after or within the period of SFC, people in high faction (that i won;t name ) that made their sin 104/105 are using them in shadow over their head in PvP zone and event swithing for them when in trouble.
  • Sylvae - Sanctuary
    Sylvae - Sanctuary Posts: 1,018 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    So does the mass of people against CC mean that Barrage should auto-cancel when a duel or other glitch method is used? Heal aggro should not be allowed to be strong enough to gather up 30+ poison mobs? Or all the other class glitches that are deemed acceptable for some hypocritical reason or another?
  • Teiw - Sanctuary
    Teiw - Sanctuary Posts: 170 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    So knowing how to exploit glitches = knowing how to play your class?

    Being able to cancel skills in mid channel and get bonuses while keeping your sparks definitely sounds like a glitch to me, but you seem pretty proud about how much you practiced it.

    I guess as a venomancer I could attack bosses from the air so they couldn't fight back, or level my pets on wedding quest mobs while I'm asleep, that would make me skilled right? b:dirty Maybe I could put a heavy weight on my petheal skill and go afk during TT bosses XD.

    I'm glad pwi fixed that glitch. And its old hat but they also fixed dragoons giving out lots of exp, and they fixed the nirvana talisman glitch as far as I know.
  • SylenThunder - Twilight Temple
    SylenThunder - Twilight Temple Supprot Guru Posts: 7,908
    edited February 2013
    Wow, a couple of really butthurt responses and a few with legit cricitism. I can't even quote Sylen's wall of QQ because he doesn't know how to quote properly.
    I used that method because I did not want the "wall" to be any larger than it already was. It's also a pretty common practice with posts like yours in many forum communities. But here, let's try this method...
    The version's I'm talking about are the Wanmei support versions, including their p2p and the chinese version of our game.
    1. The P2P version is ages behind PW-CN and PWI. There's a lot of things they have that we don't also. There's also a much different gameplay experience there since it's not full of APS'ers and CS ******. So you would basically be comparing apples to wingnuts.

    2. The PW-CN version got the same fixes that you insist on incorrectly calling glitches. They not only had it a couple months before we did, but news was bouncing around even before that we knew about it and it was being discussed on the forums here because some of us, (like myself), actually get invited to do beta tests on their development servers.
    I admit that CCing was an exploit. Was it based on a programming oversight, I don't know. I think it was intentionally put there so that effects would proc then skills would land so we'd get the skills effect as we used the skill.
    Given that the original game code was never finished by Archosaur Group when Wanmei purchased it, and then proceeded to fire the original dev's, it was likely just an overlooked bit of incorrect coding. The hundreds of actual glitches in the game currently can be primarily attributed to this fact. Yes, it was intended for the effect to proc before the skill itself landed. No, it was not intended for you to cancel the chanelling after the proc to cheat the system into getting an extra buff/debuff.
    If we use a skill then sparks should be consumed. If we don't use the skill, and merely channel it, then they shouldn't be. If you get interupted trying to put up vortex you don't lose 2 sparks. It still takes time, it still consumes mana, but since you never use the skill you never use the sparks.
    You also aren't getting an extra debuff/buff when Vortex gets interrupted while chanelling by a mob.
    I'm free to play, I know my classes (20 pages guides in the BM forum can attest to that) and I do decently in pk without CCing. I miss it, though. I spent hours learning how to properly channel and cancel my skills to use them best and it was a great balancer to people who actually spent time playing their class instead of just face roll-cash shopping their gear and derping their way through pvp.
    It means you know your class. It doesn't mean you know how to deal with other classes in PvP very well. Yes, the majority of the idiots out there are just noob CS'ers. The majority of those also don't go around QQing about a glitch that was fixed a couple of years ago.
    So you spent time learning how to cheat the game, and now you're butthurt because you can't cheat anymore. Get over it.

    It definitely doesn't compare to something like spending time and money on a product, and then having that actual product taken away. You spent time on learning how to cheat. Cheaters always lose in the end.
    I can understand cash shopped players and people who don't know or understand how to play opposing this because learning how to actually play the game does give an unfair advantage to some people.
    There's nothing unfair about taking the time to learn how to play the game the way it was intended. And if you take the time to not only master your class, but to learn other classes, how they work, their skills, and their methods, then you're actually Pro.

    Which is a lot different from spending a lot of time learning how to cheat. That makes you very not Pro.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Walpurga - Dreamweaver
    Walpurga - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,028 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    So what if CCing was a "glitch?"

    It something that required legit skill and timing. Thus it should be left in whether or not it was a "glitch," which it wasn't anyways; it was an intricately timed move. It's that kind of skill that separates the proverbial men from the boys

    Traditional MMOs get enough of a bad rap as is for being point-and-click adventure.
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  • Savor - Lost City
    Savor - Lost City Posts: 252 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Our PWIC team lost because they were chosen for their PVE ability.

    Hey now, I have never been good at PvE nor claim to be. We had the worst squad set up out of all the teams by FAR. No archers and a cleric that had been up for 24+ hours because for him the tournament started at 9am and he figured if he went to sleep he might miss it. Every other team had archers and mages we had neither of these. We were not privy to many of the elements of the arena itself until mere hours before hand; infact there were several rules we were not told until 30 minutes before the tournament started. IE: Japan was disqualified for having genie gear on their genie, Frankie informed us of this 30 minutes before our fight (not his fault he was not told until then either). We could have been disqualified in this way as well. One of the players on our team I will admit (some may say more than one to each his own) was chosen purely for her gear as her playing skill is incredibly poor. We weren't allowed to change our squad set-up after the first day and weren't told that sins couldn't get APS gear or that the alternate could still buff the party even if they didn't fight. There were alot of let downs in communication between CN, the hosts of the PWIC, and apparently everyone else.

    Side note: I have a player from the Philippines server on FB still i talk to her now and then they still have not received their rewards and they came in 3rd place.
    My main was Susamajii The Lost City Barbarian.
  • Sylvae - Sanctuary
    Sylvae - Sanctuary Posts: 1,018 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Hey now, I have never been good at PvE nor claim to be. We had the worst squad set up out of all the teams by FAR. No archers and a cleric that had been up for 24+ hours because for him the tournament started at 9am and he figured if he went to sleep he might miss it. Every other team had archers and mages we had neither of these. We were not privy to many of the elements of the arena itself until mere hours before hand; infact there were several rules we were not told until 30 minutes before the tournament started. IE: Japan was disqualified for having genie gear on their genie, Frankie informed us of this 30 minutes before our fight (not his fault he was not told until then either). We could have been disqualified in this way as well. One of the players on our team I will admit (some may say more than one to each his own) was chosen purely for her gear as her playing skill is incredibly poor. We weren't allowed to change our squad set-up after the first day and weren't told that sins couldn't get APS gear or that the alternate could still buff the party even if they didn't fight. There were alot of let downs in communication between CN, the hosts of the PWIC, and apparently everyone else.

    Side note: I have a player from the Philippines server on FB still i talk to her now and then they still have not received their rewards and they came in 3rd place.

    It really isn't a surprise, that type of tactic is what can be expected to be repeated in the next one as well. Whatever helps to ensure a chinese team wins, will likely be utilized.

    Should be interesting if next one has them with the CN version of R9 recast with the unknown +40ATK lvl tacked on as well. It'll just so happen during a time between updates where CN has it, but we don't. If they pull that again, would hope it just gets boycott to show the same level of respect back to PWE.
  • _blood_rain - Sanctuary
    _blood_rain - Sanctuary Posts: 2,532 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I don't see how it's worth even a decently sized post. CC for BMs would be nonfactor in today's pvp and farming has also taken a turn that sort of counterbalances the APS grind.

    The 5.0 "nerf" was always just an insignificant pseudo-fix meant to satisfy the insecurities of QQers while not pissing off(or affecting at all, in any way, really) the player's who've invested in 5.0


    I'm honestly more amused by SylenThunder and his claims of killing full R9 archers with +3 R8. That would make a far more interesting thread.
  • Miugre - Heavens Tear
    Miugre - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    So what if CCing was a "glitch?"

    It something that required legit skill and timing. Thus it should be left in whether or not it was a "glitch," which it wasn't anyways; it was an intricately timed move. It's that kind of skill that separates the proverbial men from the boys
    Nice rationalization, but unfortunately that's all it is. Forgive me for not being amazed at your ability to press one key at the right time to exploit a glitch.
    Traditional MMOs get enough of a bad rap as is for being point-and-click adventure.
    Not bad enough for people to stop playing them, clearly. And if they did, I somehow doubt that more badly-rationalized glitches would be the magic bullet that fixes basic MMO design. :P
    So you spent time learning how to cheat the game, and now you're butthurt because you can't cheat anymore. Get over it.
    Truest line in the entire thread. Some people will rationalize literally anything. >_>
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]

    Other Active Characters:
    LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I would actually log on if they put CCing back

    And if I remember from the video's we lost in the PWIC due to purify wep wiz + no archers on the team
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Xainou - Sanctuary
    Xainou - Sanctuary Posts: 5,369 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Gotta agree with Miugre here. Skills that are meant to cost sparks, should cost them.


    Also, I think the aps nerf is a result of the everlasting conflict of "QQQQQ nerf 5.0 pliiiis" and "I'll quit if you make my 5.0 sin useless!!!!". So they did something, but actually nothing...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Licensed tail brusher of ƙɑƙʊɱɑʊ ~ only the fluffiest
    Outrunning centaurs since 2012~
  • Miugre - Heavens Tear
    Miugre - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Gotta agree with Miugre here. Skills that are meant to cost sparks, should cost them.
    Frankly, I couldn't care less if they cost sparks or not. If a skill was designed to take 2.0 seconds to cast, that's the price you're gonna have to pay to get your proc. It's that simple.
    Also, I think the aps nerf is a result of the everlasting conflict of "QQQQQ nerf 5.0 pliiiis" and "I'll quit if you make my 5.0 sin useless!!!!". So they did something, but actually nothing...
    Yep, pretty much. It's because PW* is too scared of pissing off a bunch of exploiters to actually fix the game. :-/
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]

    Other Active Characters:
    LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Gotta agree with Miugre here. Skills that are meant to cost sparks, should cost them.


    Also, I think the aps nerf is a result of the everlasting conflict of "QQQQQ nerf 5.0 pliiiis" and "I'll quit if you make my 5.0 sin useless!!!!". So they did something, but actually nothing...

    ...

    ...

    ...

    Wow people are still as bloody ignorant as i remember them being

    Seriously I could bottle the mix of loathing, pity, and pure good humor that I feel atm and sell it as an aphrodisiac
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Xainou - Sanctuary
    Xainou - Sanctuary Posts: 5,369 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Oops sorry Miugre. I actually meant to quote Decus there. b:surrender

    But yep. Especially since it was obviously glitchy. I mean, sure, bring it back, but let us cancel stuff like BIDS and HF? :D
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Licensed tail brusher of ƙɑƙʊɱɑʊ ~ only the fluffiest
    Outrunning centaurs since 2012~