Will Nirvana ever be revamped?
Sakubatou - Sanctuary
Posts: 4,001 Arc User
So, today I did some 2 and 3 person vanas. With G16 around it went about as fast with 3 people as it used to with 6 and with only 3 people it was sort of, almost, kind of, barely worth it after the devastation NW caused on the price of raps and cannies.
All of us had multiple 99 key runs. I had 3-4 sets on each of my 7 level 100s, as did the others in squad. None of us have done Nirvana in months and the stacks of 99k were starting to take up too much space. I've even NPC some vana keys to make inventory space lately.
So I was wondering. Short of actually fixing Nirvana and the pwi market, can we update Nirvana. We no longer need 6 people to run a Nirvana and its not worth it to run Nirvana if you have to split 6 ways. I'm okay with the 6 key cost, but can we remove the required 6 people to enter?
Second, get rid of the blue quest that gives you a Nirvana key for 3m coin. At current prices it's takes you about 5 runs (with double drops) to get 3m coin worth of mats, before any squad split. I have clicked too fast, thinking I was picking up my keys, and lost 3m coin and I know a few others who have done the same thing.
Other ideas to update post-NW vana?
All of us had multiple 99 key runs. I had 3-4 sets on each of my 7 level 100s, as did the others in squad. None of us have done Nirvana in months and the stacks of 99k were starting to take up too much space. I've even NPC some vana keys to make inventory space lately.
So I was wondering. Short of actually fixing Nirvana and the pwi market, can we update Nirvana. We no longer need 6 people to run a Nirvana and its not worth it to run Nirvana if you have to split 6 ways. I'm okay with the 6 key cost, but can we remove the required 6 people to enter?
Second, get rid of the blue quest that gives you a Nirvana key for 3m coin. At current prices it's takes you about 5 runs (with double drops) to get 3m coin worth of mats, before any squad split. I have clicked too fast, thinking I was picking up my keys, and lost 3m coin and I know a few others who have done the same thing.
Other ideas to update post-NW vana?
Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
Post edited by Sakubatou - Sanctuary on
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Comments
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Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »So, today I did some 2 and 3 person vanas. With G16 around it went about as fast with 3 people as it used to with 6 and with only 3 people it was sort of, almost, kind of, barely worth it after the devastation NW caused on the price of raps and cannies.
All of us had multiple 99 key runs. I had 3-4 sets on each of my 7 level 100s, as did the others in squad. None of us have done Nirvana in months and the stacks of 99k were starting to take up too much space. I've even NPC some vana keys to make inventory space lately.
So I was wondering. Short of actually fixing Nirvana and the pwi market, can we update Nirvana. We no longer need 6 people to run a Nirvana and its not worth it to run Nirvana if you have to split 6 ways. I'm okay with the 6 key cost, but can we remove the required 6 people to enter?
Second, get rid of the blue quest that gives you a Nirvana key for 3m coin. At current prices it's takes you about 5 runs (with double drops) to get 3m coin worth of mats, before any squad split. I have clicked too fast, thinking I was picking up my keys, and lost 3m coin and I know a few others who have done the same thing.
Other ideas to update post-NW vana?
Increase the drops by 10x permanently.
Add vile bosses, all of whom drop weapon molds.
Add a quest reward upon completion, perhaps a choice of cannies or raps x100/20 respectively.
Any comination of the three.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks to the beautiful and talanted Zheii for the sigb:dirty
youtube.com/ZanryuPWI
youtube.com/ZanryuGaming
I read the forums naked.0 -
Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »Increase the drops by 10x permanently.
Add vile bosses, all of whom drop weapon molds.
Add a quest reward upon completion, perhaps a choice of cannies or raps x100/20 respectively.
Any comination of the three.
you, sir are onto something here. me likey[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »Add vile bosses, all of whom drop weapon molds.
I like this one. Make every boss in Nirvana harder and vile so Nirvana can be farmed for badges as well as canny/raps without the Warsong wait time or the Lunar entry fee.Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
Make all drops become sadness cards, followed by the mocking horn sound heard in cartoons. Then drop an anvil on all the characters.Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura
Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx
:NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.0 -
Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »Increase the drops by 10x permanently.
Add vile bosses, all of whom drop weapon molds.
Add a quest reward upon completion, perhaps a choice of cannies or raps x100/20 respectively.
Any comination of the three.
Technically speaking, to keep nirvy up to par with the actual price changes, an increase by 10x drops is too extreme on a permenant basis. 5x the drops would fit the prices that used to be worth going squaded for in the first place, based on raps and uncan prices. Ofc this makes collecting cans and raps easier, but NW doesnt already?
Vile bosses... very thumbs up I think (molds though should really be random, and this would also open another avenue for collecting BASIC BADGES I would hope.
Given just these changes, there would be no reason for pw to add another reward on top of these changes, if one looks at what used to be. The only other thing that would need changes is the 99 keys quest / reward of. And I do think the 6 keys and not 6 people should be another change as well, or if not 6 people, make it double the keys to get in?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Apostasy - Raging Tide wrote: »Technically speaking, to keep nirvy up to par with the actual price changes, an increase by 10x drops is too extreme on a permenant basis. 5x the drops would fit the prices that used to be worth going squaded for in the first place, based on raps and uncan prices. Ofc this makes collecting cans and raps easier, but NW doesnt already?
Vile bosses... very thumbs up I think (molds though should really be random, and this would also open another avenue for collecting BASIC BADGES I would hope.
Given just these changes, there would be no reason for pw to add another reward on top of these changes, if one looks at what used to be. The only other thing that would need changes is the 99 keys quest / reward of. And I do think the 6 keys and not 6 people should be another change as well, or if not 6 people, make it double the keys to get in?
Technically speaking an increase in the amount acquired via drops won't work due to different economies on different servers. 10x wouldn't even be worth it on Lothranis given the fact that cannies are 15k on my server. Making it easier is kind of the point, seeing as Nirvana is now a dead instance. Dead content is never a good thing to have, especially when it's high-end.
At least Vile bosses who drop weapon molds would make it more than worth it to run Nirvana again. Perhaps an increase in drops, 3-5x, and allow vile bosses that only drop the weapon molds. Bing, Bam, Boom, Nirvana is suddenly lively once again. I fixed an issue in a whole two minutes, get on it PWE.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks to the beautiful and talanted Zheii for the sigb:dirty
youtube.com/ZanryuPWI
youtube.com/ZanryuGaming
I read the forums naked.0 -
Nirvana vile shouldn't drop molds, they should drop badges or rotating cogs.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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Apostasy - Raging Tide wrote: »Technically speaking, to keep nirvy up to par with the actual price changes, an increase by 10x drops is too extreme on a permenant basis. 5x the drops would fit the prices that used to be worth going squaded for in the first place, based on raps and uncan prices. Ofc this makes collecting cans and raps easier, but NW doesnt already?
Vile bosses... very thumbs up I think (molds though should really be random, and this would also open another avenue for collecting BASIC BADGES I would hope.
Given just these changes, there would be no reason for pw to add another reward on top of these changes, if one looks at what used to be. The only other thing that would need changes is the 99 keys quest / reward of. And I do think the 6 keys and not 6 people should be another change as well, or if not 6 people, make it double the keys to get in?
Actually... I get about 150 tokens average per 2 hour NW.
In 2 hours of non 2x Nirvana I'd do about 10 runs (8-10 mins runs + getting back to instance and starting). You average about 1 canny per 2 run and 1 rap every 5 runs. So 10 runs gets you 5 cannies and 2 raps.
5 cannies and 2 raps vs 150 tokens. Lets say raps are worth 5 cannies, so essentially 15 cannies for 2 hours of Nirvana vs 750 cannies. Nirvana would actually need to be increased 50x to be on par with NW.Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »Actually... I get about 150 tokens average per 2 hour NW.
In 2 hours of non 2x Nirvana I'd do about 10 runs (8-10 mins runs + getting back to instance and starting). You average about 1 canny per 2 run and 1 rap every 5 runs. So 10 runs gets you 5 cannies and 2 raps.
5 cannies and 2 raps vs 150 tokens. Lets say raps are worth 5 cannies, so essentially 15 cannies for 2 hours of Nirvana vs 750 cannies. Nirvana would actually need to be increased 50x to be on par with NW.
Endgame sins now can solo nirvana in 15 minutes. I could do it in 30 with a HA +12 g13 sin[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Whatever revamp they do to the instance, I hope the bosses are at least as interesting as those in AEU, with little quirks and tricks that would require different classes to handle them.
It would be pretty disappointing if they're just another set of solo-able e-z mode boss fights.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Remember: OP may be a duck|OP/GMs/Devs may not deliver|Search function is your friend|Lurk more|Be wary of Mods: they can't be trusted|This place isn't a hugbox|Your tears sustain me|Know what Bait is|"Soon" may never come|Postcount, Dubs, and other GETs are important|Don't revive long dead threads|There is a section for everything|You can be banned for anything|No Fun Allowed outside of OT|Sweetiebot rules OT|"Circlejerks" are inevitable|Threads can be derailed and saved|Those who use"XD" should off themselves at their earliest convenience|0 -
cant you just drop the quest for buying a key for 3m? do like ideas of vana being revampedI do not need much,
I do not have much,
I do not miss much,
I have love and friendship,
To compensate for that!
Dragoneast-rb1-soon to be 100 again- sanctuary
Back in pwi, always returning to my first real mmo
Started in genie patch
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Another instance ruined
Didn't you used to be able to get mats in lunar to make certain items that you can't get now?
Nirvy will go like this. Only place you will get the Raps, Cannies etc will be Nation Wars soon
Watch this space
( just wished they would bring back lunar mats again )0 -
Well, I hope they will change something/anything in nirvy - I haven't touched the game for over a month now since they introduced NW - worst thing that has ever happened to pwi if ya ask me.
For me the game is dead - unless they make some interesting changes, I won't come back.0 -
I can't agree with all arguments in this thread. E.g. the reason why nv mats are cheap on lothranis and momaganon is because almost players there live in same time zone. So every1 can participate and don't have to buy them --> no demand.
If you didn't recognize it yet: since 1st anniversary we have alot of outdated content.
Who actually farmed heavenrage boots or helment of holy punishment? Maybe 5-6 freaks on all servers.
How many ppl are doing friendship crystals quests?
How many ppl have finished their drake's scroll quest or tiger's scroll quest?
Why going to city of abominations? For a lame seal of eternal solitude??
When did you visit cave of sadistic glee last time?
When did you run a FB instance, were you don't have to do culti or BH100, last time?
Public quests?? Also a dead born child. Same thing for rune crafting.
Since nw release even more lunar gold mats are useless ****. Lunar molds? bleh...
Sage rank6 weapons?? lulz.
LMAO @dragon quest molds (only lvl 60 light wrists were once worth to get...). Many 3* had better stats, even before 1st anni.
Who's farming g15 morai gear??
How many factions do trials? There are way to many delays in trial quests so they take way to much time. I even don't see a reason to have or update a base. The helmet seems to be the only reason to have one.
I could continue this list easily with another 100 key points.
The only instances and quests which has become worth to do after nw changes, apart from nw: advanced cube and mori dailies + culti 100 for pvp skills.
If you don't smell the pattern: Devs are normally not allowed to revamp old quests and instances. New content seems to sell better. At least the responsible managers believe this.0 -
I can't agree with all arguments in this thread. E.g. the reason why nv mats are cheap on lothranis and momaganon is because almost players there live in same time zone. So every1 can participate and don't have to buy them --> no demand.
If you didn't recognize it yet: since 1st anniversary we have alot of outdated content.
Who actually farmed heavenrage boots or helment of holy punishment? Maybe 5-6 freaks on all servers.
How many ppl are doing friendship crystals quests?
How many ppl have finished their drake's scroll quest or tiger's scroll quest?
Why going to city of abominations? For a lame seal of eternal solitude??
When did you visit cave of sadistic glee last time?
When did you run a FB instance, were you don't have to do culti or BH100, last time?
Public quests?? Also a dead born child. Same thing for rune crafting.
Since nw release even more lunar gold mats are useless ****. Lunar molds? bleh...
Sage rank6 weapons?? lulz.
LMAO @dragon quest molds (only lvl 60 light wrists were once worth to get...). Many 3* had better stats, even before 1st anni.
Who's farming g15 morai gear??
How many factions do trials? There are way to many delays in trial quests so they take way to much time. I even don't see a reason to have or update a base. The helmet seems to be the only reason to have one.
I could continue this list easily with another 100 key points.
The only instances and quests which has become worth to do after nw changes, apart from nw: advanced cube and mori dailies + culti 100 for pvp skills.
If you don't smell the pattern: Devs are normally not allowed to revamp old quests and instances. New content seems to sell better. At least the responsible managers believe this.
So what your saying is profit before fun. Thanks for clearing that up0 -
I'd love to see an update on Nirvana. It was boring and dull but it was one of our endgame instances nonetheless. It's kinda sad seeing it completely dead now.
If they do update the instance, though, they need to be creative and not turn it back to what it used to be. I don't really want to go back to those times. I had no issues getting into Nirvana but it was so boring and so many people were excluded from it.
Otherwise, I guess having a requirement of 3 people and increase the drop rate a little (maybe like Caster?) would be nice.[SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
★ Venomancer videos - tinyurl.com/k6ppkw4 ★ Desdi - Demon ♪ Wyvelin - Sage ★0 -
BringinDeath - Archosaur wrote: »So what your saying is profit before fun. Thanks for clearing that up
Yeah its so much fun to kill MILLIONS!!! of mobs for outdated boots or helmet. For months, 10h per day. So much fun to kill hundred thousands of mobs at same area for a ring... oh wait. It isn't. At least for 99.9999% of ppl on our planet.0 -
Who actually farmed heavenrage boots or helment of holy punishment? Maybe 5-6 freaks on all servers.
Why going to city of abominations? For a lame seal of eternal solitude??
When did you run a FB instance, were you don't have to do culti or BH100, last time?
Public quests?? Also a dead born child. Same thing for rune crafting.
Since nw release even more lunar gold mats are useless ****. Lunar molds? bleh...
Sage rank6 weapons?? lulz.
Who's farming g15 morai gear??
1. Maybe im one of the 5-6 people u mention, i still grinding map 2 and map 3 to get card. and guess what? its alot of income for me lol
2. Many people still doing CoA cause they can get PoF or OBP. in my server, we can sell PoF or OBP for 500k-600k each. thats not lame, thats profit js.
3. i sometimes do fb cause its fun, last time i did fb was 2 days ago.
4. there are some people at low level still doing public quest. its really easy, good exp and 1 more thing, no need to pay.
5. me and some other friend are doing corona daily quest to get g15 gear, cause we think its good for pve.
i really dont know why people think that everything is worthless to do. because some of old instance or old farming/grinding are still good income. atleast for me.0 -
Chance for a nirvana revamp is like getting a Scroll of tome out of sunshine packs b:chuckle0
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+1Euthymius - Heavens Tear wrote: »Whatever revamp they do to the instance, I hope the bosses are at least as interesting as those in AEU, with little quirks and tricks that would require different classes to handle them.
It would be pretty disappointing if they're just another set of solo-able e-z mode boss fights.
I would hope that they...
1. Make a minimum of 4 to enter, like TT.
2. Make the instance anti-APS and design it to support actual squadplay with varying classes having to work together.
3. Make the drops more useful, either quantity or quality.
Of course, then 75% of the server would complain they can't run the instance because it might require actual thought.Take the time to look for your answer before you post like an idiot.
There are two kinds of people in this world...
There are those who panic,
And then there is us.
~ Sarah Jane Smith0 -
Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »Actually... I get about 150 tokens average per 2 hour NW.
In 2 hours of non 2x Nirvana I'd do about 10 runs (8-10 mins runs + getting back to instance and starting). You average about 1 canny per 2 run and 1 rap every 5 runs. So 10 runs gets you 5 cannies and 2 raps.
5 cannies and 2 raps vs 150 tokens. Lets say raps are worth 5 cannies, so essentially 15 cannies for 2 hours of Nirvana vs 750 cannies. Nirvana would actually need to be increased 50x to be on par with NW.
increase token cost on rap and canny,1 token for 5 canny is really dumb as hell.This game is like washing hair with shampoo... Rinse and repeat if desired.
Proud owner of many mains.101 bm,101 seeker,101 demon sin,100 sage sin,101 archer,101 barb,100 cleric,100 wiz( first toon since sept 08 finally made it in 2013)newly added mystic 100 HA,72 psy.0 -
OIdpop - Heavens Tear wrote: »1 token for 5 canny is really dumb as hell.
Considering it takes ten thousand Cannys just to recast all your R9 gear, uh no... it' s not.0 -
Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »Actually... I get about 150 tokens average per 2 hour NW.
In 2 hours of non 2x Nirvana I'd do about 10 runs (8-10 mins runs + getting back to instance and starting). You average about 1 canny per 2 run and 1 rap every 5 runs. So 10 runs gets you 5 cannies and 2 raps.
5 cannies and 2 raps vs 150 tokens. Lets say raps are worth 5 cannies, so essentially 15 cannies for 2 hours of Nirvana vs 750 cannies. Nirvana would actually need to be increased 50x to be on par with NW.
Im just looking at what the old price costs were from casters nirvy before nw existed... about 200-250k per can and about 1 mil per rap (give or take about a 100k-ish). Being the prices have dropped to about 40-50k per can and 200-250k per rap, x5 is good enough to equate to the costs / rewards involved.
What YOU or anyone personally makes in supply tokens is completely unrelated to nirvana itself. NW is its own event. Period. Nirvana was meant to be grinded out to build up and collect the raps and cans for gear. Given NW now, Nirvy would only serve as an added method to build those items toward making gear. That already means you can build those gears faster than what once was available. (And thankfully so or "the rest of us" would have no hope at all of even trying to compete with the highest end players... there would be a mass exodus of players)
"Being on par with NW" is just plain silly... You obviously have some nice gear there and/or are of one of the squads from higher tw factions while in NW (saying your token rewards on Sanctuary are anything close to what they are on Raging Tides). I consider myself to have nice gear compared to others overall and I only do about 70-80 tokens per nw on average... granted, I havent grouped up with anyone, so no idea how that would effect my contribution points (I still cringe thinking back to PQ1 as having spot 1 and 2 constantly solo, while dropping well below that grouped with anyone).BringinDeath - Archosaur wrote: »So what your saying is profit before fun. Thanks for clearing that up
Lol... there was any doubt of this? b:question[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Completely agree with vile bosses who drop molds. However, I believe weapon molds should be left to the 99 key vile boss. No point making it a free mold instance, but no point making it obscenely difficult either.
I actually very much disagree with making it super difficult and anti aps. It doesn't work in mmo's. Regular EU is almost dead because it requires thought and skill. Some players lag too, which is hard to avoid. Strangely enough both FCC (exp version) and vana were regarded as very fun and interesting instances on release. The only reason people dislike them now is we've all run them 1000 times, and because gear has progressed far too much. Any upgrade to vana should have a simple interesting mechanic that simply requires the squad to stay alert and participate with a little skill for the duration of each boss. Letting everyone participate is as simple as spawning physical immune adds, or requiring an earthguard to unlock a certain boss, or w/e.
And as for general rewards, forget cannies and raps or they'll be 1k apiece. Give a boost in shard drops with a chance at immaculates. Add sockets, make it 20 mirages add other useful items, drop more chests per boss. I personally loved shards in vana. A split of a canny worked out at 40-50k to you, scoring a citrine meant 150k.0 -
I was gonna say, make it 5X on normal runs, 10X or even 15X on 99 key runs.
>_> Not like I have twenty 99 key runs sitting in my bank or anything.101 Sage Sin*/Archer
100 Demon BM*/Barb
96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
95 Demon Wiz/
94 Sage Veno
85 Psy/80 Mystic
And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
*Pre RB level0 -
Kind of funny how my casters now get a free 5 subs a day from caster token. So my casters are making 85k a day, my aps toons are making nothing on average and 85k a run when I do run.Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0
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