should be at 2012 still have aps

_Ghoul_ - Lost City
_Ghoul_ - Lost City Posts: 973 Arc User
edited June 2012 in General Discussion
i know ppl will hate but i am bored and it wont kill to hear what ppl will say


let see since aps come ep have no longer there main healing role as aps can still solo farm in nv

and we have as to 80% player who have a int based toon sin is the majority of it

i seen higher costing gear then a 5aps so who ever say 5aps cost so much coin plz

so what i ask is what would be the best metod to make int still be usefull as dd but no longer a soloist power

perhaps this also would help make more venos sad venos mostly extinct with mistic and wiz

so let hear it b:pleased
Post edited by _Ghoul_ - Lost City on

Comments

  • O_Kitiara_O - Archosaur
    O_Kitiara_O - Archosaur Posts: 36 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I believe that sins can do what they do so well (in PvE) is because of Blood Paint. i'm not saying they still coulden't solo things at higher levels, but it require more than mindless spark and aps. b:chuckle
    icon is broken, im really a mysticb:pleased
  • _Skai_ - Raging Tide
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide Posts: 3,407 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Sins are nothing without BP.

    And in PWI it's Clerics, not Elven Priests.

    Your best bet is to get useful. With the new content that PWI released in Imperial Fury, a lot of instances being run now are group-related, and each class has their own role in these instances. Learn to adapt to them.
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  • MansVisa - Raging Tide
    MansVisa - Raging Tide Posts: 251 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Sins are worthless without BP.

    And in PWI it's Clerics, not Elven Priests.

    Your best bet is to get useful. With the new content that PWI released in Imperial Fury, a lot of instances being run now are group-related, and each class has their own role in these instances. Learn to adapt to them.


    fixedb:chuckle

    And some of still used old terms b:sad
  • laloner
    laloner Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    i

    so what i ask is what would be the best metod to make int still be usefull as dd but no longer a soloist power

    A spark cool down is the answer your looking for.
    AKA PermaSpark, Heartshatter
  • _Ghoul_ - Lost City
    _Ghoul_ - Lost City Posts: 973 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    keep the good conversation going b:pleased

    i am a bit suprised so no one have started flaming the thread but happpy at the same time b:pleased
  • Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear
    Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,681 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I dont think venos are sad or something , most used casters alogn with mystics ..... well , a spark cooldown would help , and maybe a true nerf in chi gaining while sparked
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • BerserkBeast - Sanctuary
    BerserkBeast - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    All they need to is to make TT,Lunar and Nirvana (And any other relevant instance),just like Adv. EU : Where not just aps matters.
    The only way to beat a troll is....to troll him back b:angry
  • Baalbak - Dreamweaver
    Baalbak - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,624 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    i think its already been suggested about 100 times before this, but just put an intermittent bramble on all bosses - 200% deflect. I dont care how hard a sin hits, if he hits hard enough to stay full health from BP - the damage he's going to be taking at his own attack rate, being returned double what he dishes out, is going to make them go splat.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Retired..
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    i think its already been suggested about 100 times before this, but just put an intermittent bramble on all bosses - 200% deflect. I dont care how hard a sin hits, if he hits hard enough to stay full health from BP - the damage he's going to be taking at his own attack rate, being returned double what he dishes out, is going to make them go splat.

    Though that's also going to make high refine sins unable to use skills. Heck, any sin with GoF or Zerk could pretty much oneshot themselves on that kind of reflect.

    Same applies to BMs, obviously. Not to even bring up R9 barbs.

    Meaning you'd have your squads filled with Archers and casters.

    Considering how ****ed up the playerbase already is in terms of efficient farming, we really, really, do not need any more reason for them to be picky about the classes they choose. Heck, look at BH Delta: Most sins have to rely on making the squads themselves or their FL or faction to take them. Similarly, today I answered a WC for a 4-5 APS squad, saying I was a 4.0 sage. I was told that the squad was full. Then again I bet the squad would've removed me if they realized I don't have a Jones' Blessing.

    I find it a bit ridiculous that an R9 barb comes to the forums, asking for justice for being "unwanted". That's like a guy winning 5,000,000$ in a lottery and complaining that he did not win 10,000,000$ instead.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
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  • _Ghoul_ - Lost City
    _Ghoul_ - Lost City Posts: 973 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Though that's also going to make high refine sins unable to use skills. Heck, any sin with GoF or Zerk could pretty much oneshot themselves on that kind of reflect.

    Same applies to BMs, obviously. Not to even bring up R9 barbs.

    Meaning you'd have your squads filled with Archers and casters.

    Considering how ****ed up the playerbase already is in terms of efficient farming, we really, really, do not need any more reason for them to be picky about the classes they choose. Heck, look at BH Delta: Most sins have to rely on making the squads themselves or their FL or faction to take them. Similarly, today I answered a WC for a 4-5 APS squad, saying I was a 4.0 sage. I was told that the squad was full. Then again I bet the squad would've removed me if they realized I don't have a Jones' Blessing.

    I find it a bit ridiculous that an R9 barb comes to the forums, asking for justice for being "unwanted". That's like a guy winning 5,000,000$ in a lottery and complaining that he did not win 10,000,000$ instead.


    well let see put a r9 barb +12 and a nv +12 5aps who you think gona have agro
    who payed the most

    now lets go back at the issue at hand shall we

    i am just wanting a dialog for this years aps as its still almost untouched

    let go back to rb shall we sin complain about not being wanted to do rb bh or culty

    and yet they dominate the coin from nv wish is the biggest pump of coin in the game

    and if i want that to be shared with all classes equally the ywish to defend it but damn qq when we do same thing to them for having no aoe for rb

    aside from that alone lets look at player base big tw faction req easy old classes with minimum gear but sin with high refined r8 or nv second cast or r9

    becouse sin dominate the market they are also demanded more gear then other classes

    i think only way for this to stop if killing sin domination on farming permanently

    i know more and more joined sin just to make coin wish is BAD cos all u see is sin nowdays

    and a sin with no aps is no sin lool

    are you kidding me they have the best seal stuns combined with there other sht
    that alone should make sin strong

    ugh fish obsession with aps is increddible
  • _Ghoul_ - Lost City
    _Ghoul_ - Lost City Posts: 973 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Though that's also going to make high refine sins unable to use skills. Heck, any sin with GoF or Zerk could pretty much oneshot themselves on that kind of reflect.

    Same applies to BMs, obviously. Not to even bring up R9 barbs.

    Meaning you'd have your squads filled with Archers and casters.

    Considering how ****ed up the playerbase already is in terms of efficient farming, we really, really, do not need any more reason for them to be picky about the classes they choose. Heck, look at BH Delta: Most sins have to rely on making the squads themselves or their FL or faction to take them. Similarly, today I answered a WC for a 4-5 APS squad, saying I was a 4.0 sage. I was told that the squad was full. Then again I bet the squad would've removed me if they realized I don't have a Jones' Blessing.

    I find it a bit ridiculous that an R9 barb comes to the forums, asking for justice for being "unwanted". That's like a guy winning 5,000,000$ in a lottery and complaining that he did not win 10,000,000$ instead.


    also i bouth r9 to help me vs ur aps cos i did not like the stun spark aps kill

    if there was no aps i would never have bouth r9 so again we come to aps
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Sins are nothing without BP.

    And in PWI it's Clerics, not Elven Priests.

    Your best bet is to get useful. With the new content that PWI released in Imperial Fury, a lot of instances being run now are group-related, and each class has their own role in these instances. Learn to adapt to them.

    The only reason you ever need BP is if youre on a boss. Mobs are too easy for BP and its not much of a factor in PVP.

    Having BP on a boss is just an excuse not to take a cleric / mystic and removes the need for a healer class which means less class diversity. That skill shouldn't be in the game.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • _Skai_ - Raging Tide
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide Posts: 3,407 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    The only reason you ever need BP is if youre on a boss. Mobs are too easy for BP and its not much of a factor in PVP.

    Having BP on a boss is just an excuse not to take a cleric / mystic and removes the need for a healer class which means less class diversity. That skill shouldn't be in the game.

    I think the contrary actually. Sins are the only melee class that uses Light Armor as their main type of armor. We need to get within melee distance of a mob to do damage on it, and that's enough time to get hit at least once. Once per mob really adds up quickly with the low defenses LA gives on an average sin.

    Even early game new players have had many struggles trying to survive as a sin due to how squishy they were. Not many other classes had to farm apoth to make Life Powders to survive early-game. I never had to use any apoth and seldom used any pots when I started out my veno and archer from scratch. Yet one thing I did notice when I was leveling my sin a couple years ago was that I was half health or near dead after killing about 2 mobs in my level range to the best of my sin's current abilities. I never had that problem when I was leveling other classes. They had ways to get around getting damaged from mobs.

    The only other main LA-using class is Archers, and with their bows and really long range due to Winged Blessings, mobs die before they can even get within casting range of their own skills on you. Melee-only mobs don't even stand a chance.

    Same goes for AA users. The only other main melee DDs are heavy-armor ones that can tank a lot more damage than LA. BMs even have a short-CD AoE stun that can allow them to get within a mob's melee range quickly, and stopping the channeling of any magic skills the mobs may be channeling.

    The one thing I will agree with you though is the unbalance in diversity BP makes in what you described.
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  • Dragoneast - Sanctuary
    Dragoneast - Sanctuary Posts: 311 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    my non aps barb has difficulties finding a vana squad. REAL difficulties. but i make my on squads and it works fine ^.^ back to the matter at hand, it sucks that aps ppl always have 5-6min runs.... so unfair, how u think ppl get coin for aps gear? cause they get easily 20m in an hour :(
    but don't let aps ruin ure game fun, if i can manage as NON APS barb, so can u as w/e u want. if ure on sanc, pm me if u wanna vana, idc about class OR aps^^
    I do not need much,
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  • Regenbogen - Lost City
    Regenbogen - Lost City Posts: 1,559 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    as for pvp vs aps: magic weapons got <purify spell> but only a few weaopons have it and 3rd cast nv doesn't for a reason...b:bye
    i am waiting for you my little flagcarriers b:kiss
  • WnbTank - Archosaur
    WnbTank - Archosaur Posts: 1,472 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    my non aps barb has difficulties finding a vana squad. REAL difficulties. but i make my on squads and it works fine ^.^ back to the matter at hand, it sucks that aps ppl always have 5-6min runs.... so unfair, how u think ppl get coin for aps gear? cause they get easily 20m in an hour :(
    but don't let aps ruin ure game fun, if i can manage as NON APS barb, so can u as w/e u want. if ure on sanc, pm me if u wanna vana, idc about class OR aps^^

    Those squads tend to be the ones with R9 sins. The more average squads the ones mine does take ~10mins for 6man. And my sin is R8+10 & 3.33aps (still lacking tome). I believe that when I get tome, I can pretty much stop using crabs but the difference between R8 & R9 is ridiculous. It`s not the average sins that dominate PvE, it`s the broken R9 sins. I`m not saying sins arent broken but I`m saying that the issue wouldnt be too big w/o R9. Greanted we now got G16 vana that will out dps R9...

    Edit: I so am not rephrasing my post, my head hurts =(.
    Trolling Sid since So Hot :o
  • seekerdo
    seekerdo Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    also i bouth r9 to help me vs ur aps cos i did not like the stun spark aps kill

    if there was no aps i would never have bouth r9 so again we come to aps

    You answered your question. Some buy R9, some aps. We give money to pwi anyway. They won't nerf anything or else they would break this perfect circle of taking money of us. It's free to play but is doesn't mean that they want us playing for free.
  • _Ghoul_ - Lost City
    _Ghoul_ - Lost City Posts: 973 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    if they were to remove aps and disable bp i wouldent mind lossing r9 at all


    b:bye


    that is how serius i am saying i can just get nirvana gear


    and hopefully no more rank gear


    ofcourse its me dreaming
  • Empu - Sanctuary
    Empu - Sanctuary Posts: 1,154 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I think the easiest and fairest solution would be to simply put a (shared) cd on spark bursts of minimum 30 sec. There would still be players capable of soloing things, but a lot less imo.

    As already pointed out, bp also needs a nerf.
    The only reason you ever need BP is if youre on a boss. Mobs are too easy for BP and its not much of a factor in PVP.

    Having BP on a boss is just an excuse not to take a cleric / mystic and removes the need for a healer class which means less class diversity. That skill shouldn't be in the game.

    I would like to see bp changed to work like a blood deflect like buff. The problem now is that with a good weapon it heals insanely much. I think this would make bp more usefull on low lvls where it honestly does shiit and become less OP on end-game.
  • BerserkBeast - Sanctuary
    BerserkBeast - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Or maybe we could make BP 50% less effective on normal attacks and 300% more effective on skills? b:avoid
    The only way to beat a troll is....to troll him back b:angry
  • Baalbak - Dreamweaver
    Baalbak - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,624 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Though that's also going to make high refine sins unable to use skills. Heck, any sin with GoF or Zerk could pretty much oneshot themselves on that kind of reflect.

    Same applies to BMs, obviously. Not to even bring up R9 barbs.

    Meaning you'd have your squads filled with Archers and casters.

    Considering how ****ed up the playerbase already is in terms of efficient farming, we really, really, do not need any more reason for them to be picky about the classes they choose. Heck, look at BH Delta: Most sins have to rely on making the squads themselves or their FL or faction to take them. Similarly, today I answered a WC for a 4-5 APS squad, saying I was a 4.0 sage. I was told that the squad was full. Then again I bet the squad would've removed me if they realized I don't have a Jones' Blessing.

    I find it a bit ridiculous that an R9 barb comes to the forums, asking for justice for being "unwanted". That's like a guy winning 5,000,000$ in a lottery and complaining that he did not win 10,000,000$ instead.

    i never really had that much issues with doing my own sin's quest mobs. Solo'd an fb19 at around level 40 on it with **** gears and no charm. All i had to do was kite the boss till my chi gain skills were on CD, and a double sparked auto attack after rib strike on the giant elf ant, was enough to kill the boss solo with no charms or apoths, just self skills and crappy pots.

    anywho... aps is just a phase I believe, a seemingly long lasting one. It might be that aps toons will stay around for the purposes of *soloing* instances, but eventually I have a suspicion that all permaspark ability is going to be phased out with the exception of 'sins and their chi gain skills. The new recast gears are without -interval am I right? Eventualy aps toons will be just a joke I believe.

    For the longest time I only ever had 1 piece of g15 armor and it was only +5, but a deicded BM, archer etc couldn't touch me - I've made other bm's break their regicides on me, and after that it was game over for the BM. That's just a PvP depiction of the way things are going, but I can sit here with my jungle ruins belt and look at all the old deicided bm's that used to be so much trouble for me aggro wise - they oftentimes have a lower base damage index than I do (yes it accounts for aps, but not for sparks).

    Its my own belief that eventually "aps" will only really be desirable for the chi gain, since non aps weaponry is starting to overpower the apsers when not sparked.
    Or maybe we could make BP 50% less effective on normal attacks and 300% more effective on skills? b:avoid

    so you're asking for a 1% return on normals, and a 6% return on skills.
    what about at sage level? 2% on normals, 12% on skills?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Retired..
  • BerserkBeast - Sanctuary
    BerserkBeast - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    so you're asking for a 1% return on normals, and a 6% return on skills.
    what about at sage level? 2% on normals, 12% on skills?

    uhm maybe
    I think BPs should be more even... I haven't meet anyone who claims that Demon BP its better than Sage.
    The only way to beat a troll is....to troll him back b:angry
  • OIdpop - Heavens Tear
    OIdpop - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,052 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    i think its already been suggested about 100 times before this, but just put an intermittent bramble on all bosses - 200% deflect. I dont care how hard a sin hits, if he hits hard enough to stay full health from BP - the damage he's going to be taking at his own attack rate, being returned double what he dishes out, is going to make them go splat.

    And why would you want that to happen?You make no damn sense.You just damn jealous.


    anyways people hating on the aps peep..OLD NEWS.
    This game is like washing hair with shampoo... Rinse and repeat if desired.
    Proud owner of many mains.101 bm,101 seeker,101 demon sin,100 sage sin,101 archer,101 barb,100 cleric,100 wiz( first toon since sept 08 finally made it in 2013)newly added mystic 100 HA,72 psy.
  • TempleSlave - Lost City
    TempleSlave - Lost City Posts: 324 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    well let see put a r9 barb +12 and a nv +12 5aps who you think gona have agro
    who payed the most

    now lets go back at the issue at hand shall we

    i am just wanting a dialog for this years aps as its still almost untouched

    let go back to rb shall we sin complain about not being wanted to do rb bh or culty

    and yet they dominate the coin from nv wish is the biggest pump of coin in the game

    and if i want that to be shared with all classes equally the ywish to defend it but damn qq when we do same thing to them for having no aoe for rb

    aside from that alone lets look at player base big tw faction req easy old classes with minimum gear but sin with high refined r8 or nv second cast or r9

    becouse sin dominate the market they are also demanded more gear then other classes

    i think only way for this to stop if killing sin domination on farming permanently

    i know more and more joined sin just to make coin wish is BAD cos all u see is sin nowdays

    and a sin with no aps is no sin lool

    are you kidding me they have the best seal stuns combined with there other sht
    that alone should make sin strong

    ugh fish obsession with aps is increddible

    Yes, you are a broken record. With that old-timey crackly hiss too.
    I love puppies.... and sharp objects. b:pleased
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    i never really had that much issues with doing my own sin's quest mobs. Solo'd an fb19 at around level 40 on it with **** gears and no charm. All i had to do was kite the boss till my chi gain skills were on CD, and a double sparked auto attack after rib strike on the giant elf ant, was enough to kill the boss solo with no charms or apoths, just self skills and crappy pots.

    And your point is? The fact remains that sins are the only LA melee range class in the game. Barbs and BMs have higher pdef and higher HP to compensate for their range, sins don't get that luxury.

    It's just another thing in the game that has been broken by easy access to extremely strong gear. Just like -interval.

    And I think complaining about BP is rather funky, considering that all of the noteworthy bosses in the game are level 150, meaning BP is pretty much a crapshoot against them unless you have a powerful, fast weapon.
    anywho... aps is just a phase I believe, a seemingly long lasting one. It might be that aps toons will stay around for the purposes of *soloing* instances, but eventually I have a suspicion that all permaspark ability is going to be phased out with the exception of 'sins and their chi gain skills. The new recast gears are without -interval am I right? Eventualy aps toons will be just a joke I believe.

    The G16 nirvana is a bit of a funky thing, actually: The HA wrists keep the -0.1 interval, but the LA doesn't. Neither set has -interval on any of the other pieces.

    On the other hand, the G16 Nirvana claw/dagger has the best odds for -interval out of recast R8, G15 and G16.
    well let see put a r9 barb +12 and a nv +12 5aps who you think gona have agro
    who payed the most

    let go back to rb shall we sin complain about not being wanted to do rb bh or culty

    and yet they dominate the coin from nv wish is the biggest pump of coin in the game

    aside from that alone lets look at player base big tw faction req easy old classes with minimum gear but sin with high refined r8 or nv second cast or r9

    becouse sin dominate the market they are also demanded more gear then other classes

    and a sin with no aps is no sin lool

    are you kidding me they have the best seal stuns combined with there other sht
    that alone should make sin strong

    ugh fish obsession with aps is increddible

    A few things:
    1. It really, really, looks like you're going "Boohoo I bought R9+12, why am I not the King of Games yet?" Nice job ignoring all the good parts of being an R9 barb.
    2. Nirvana does not pump coin into the game. After all, Uncannies and Raptures are never NPC'ed. The biggest source of coin would be Tokens.
    3. Sins are demanded better gear in high factions for two reason: Sins are much less useful in TW than others and there's tons of sins, so they have to make the bar higher or they end up with a faction filled with sins
    4. Sins can do pretty well without APS, just check a few of the full R9 sins out there.
    5. Sins don't have the best stuns in the game by far: we got a telestun and a 2 spark stun skill. Our silence skill has a bloody long channel time and costs a spark. About the only really excellent skills we got would be Deep Sting and Tackling Slash, but the former is only good for cooldowns and the latter isn't exactly too useful either.
    6. Sins go with APS because that leads to the best DPS and sins are DDs, so DPS is their priority.
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  • PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver
    PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,507 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    so what, should more expensive gear be always better than cheaper gear in any setup? that's utterly idiotic; expensive gear shouldnt even mean that it's good in any aspect of the game

    on the contrary, a game that claims that involves character building should encourage careful study of gear and game mechanics and not be reduced to +12 > +11, g16 > g15

    pwi has not failed that much (so far)

    in other words: if you spent a ton of coins to make a inefficient farming build it's your fault and, considering that the aps mechanic is so widely know, there is really no excuse.
    you only purge once #yopo
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    so what, should more expensive gear be always better than cheaper gear in any setup? that's utterly idiotic; expensive gear shouldnt even mean that it's good in any aspect of the game

    on the contrary, a game that claims that involves character building should encourage careful study of gear and game mechanics and not be reduced to +12 > +11, g16 > g15

    pwi has not failed that much (so far)

    in other words: if you spent a ton of coins to make a inefficient farming build it's your fault and, considering that the aps mechanic is so widely know, there is really no excuse.

    It certainly is giggly to see an R9 +12 complaining that they're not the best and most wanted at everything in the game.
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  • ResMePls - Heavens Tear
    ResMePls - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,349 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    fixedb:chuckle

    And some of still used old terms b:sad

    What ab0ut PK hurr durr?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]I know what your thinking.
  • Empu - Sanctuary
    Empu - Sanctuary Posts: 1,154 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    anywho... aps is just a phase I believe, a seemingly long lasting one. It might be that aps toons will stay around for the purposes of *soloing* instances, but eventually I have a suspicion that all permaspark ability is going to be phased out with the exception of 'sins and their chi gain skills. The new recast gears are without -interval am I right? Eventualy aps toons will be just a joke I believe.

    For the longest time I only ever had 1 piece of g15 armor and it was only +5, but a deicded BM, archer etc couldn't touch me - I've made other bm's break their regicides on me, and after that it was game over for the BM. That's just a PvP depiction of the way things are going, but I can sit here with my jungle ruins belt and look at all the old deicided bm's that used to be so much trouble for me aggro wise - they oftentimes have a lower base damage index than I do (yes it accounts for aps, but not for sparks).

    Its my own belief that eventually "aps" will only really be desirable for the chi gain, since non aps weaponry is starting to overpower the apsers when not sparked.

    Rationally speaking, I agree with you. I'm considering to upgrade my 2nd cast nirvana armor to 3rd even though for my bm that would mean bye bye 4/5 aps (depending on which ornaments now already). Cause honestly, I don't really use the aps/fists that much. It's just a boss thing, and even that is starting to be less true cause either boss dies within 1~2 sparks anyway or I'm just there to properly time hf. I did start to notice (finally !) some less aps-obsession lately. Like fcc squads looking for aoe DD where before they only wanted sins and bms.

    On the other hand, aps has become a sort of religion. My bm get asked for nirvana because he has 5 aps with high refine G15 fists... but I'm just there to cast hf/gs. I still remember old bh seat being horribly slow because of "aps squads" that took bosses down in seconds but couldn't do a single pull. Ppl are so obsessed with the time it takes to kill 1 target (hence all the "math", wc for hours for specific ppl when squad is ready to go already, buff-alts, unbalanced armor-weapon, ... ) that they totally forget the total aspect of things. And it is almost impossible to make them realise how silly they are.

    Basically, most ppl go 5 aps because OTHERS want them to be 5 aps or not invite them.