Here you go

Divine_Death - Harshlands
Divine_Death - Harshlands Posts: 323 Arc User
edited January 2012 in General Discussion
Sagek - Sanctuary wrote: »
Come on dude, this was a thread simply giving thanks for PWE doing something.

and it's not THAT simple. If it was then when gold prices fell, Catshop prices would too. But it doesn't workt hat way Catshop prices only increase no matter what the value of gold is. Thats Greed, plain and simple.
b:bye
Divine_Death - Harshlands wrote: »
When gold goes down catshop price should too? Are you talking about things that were on sale? If so, why would they go down? They are off sale now and no longer can be purchased for the same lower price. Let's look at packs. With 1.9 mil gold they cost 426,360 to buy. What price are they now, 44 silver. at 1.5 mil gold that's 673,200 to buy directly from Boutique. Packs and orbs cost more gold each now, and more in coins to buy even with cheaper gold, so gold price going down isn't going to do **** to lower their prices.

Yeah gold went down *because* those things are no longer on sale, and price also went up *because* they are no longer on sale. L2Econ.
Post edited by Divine_Death - Harshlands on

Comments

  • Tatuaje - Lost City
    Tatuaje - Lost City Posts: 2,780 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Economy 101 - Yah, I suck at it.

    My only example of products not changing based on coin amounts would be "Books". Yes, books.

    I live in Canada and even though our dollar has been stronger or equal to USA we still pay an unfair amount more for books.

    I understood in the past when our dollar was horribly low but why not change it now? I don't know the reasons but perhaps in time the prices may even out.

    I know some stores to increase sales sold under the USA prices but in Canadian dollars to attempt to increase sales.
    tatuaje: grinding mobs and zhenning ???
    frankieraye:All right, I admit it, it's a bit retro. lol.
  • Sagek - Sanctuary
    Sagek - Sanctuary Posts: 1,156 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Thank you, I do appreciate that.

    So as far as the Economy is concerned, where should we start?

    I lean towards the players being at fault for the economy being out of whack. I believe you lean towards PWI being at fault.

    So rather then go off what was stated in another thread.

    Lets just get down to the basic, You feel PWI screwed up the economy because of Pack sales, do I understand you correctly?
  • Divine_Death - Harshlands
    Divine_Death - Harshlands Posts: 323 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    No I'm saying they control how they want they economy to go because they control Boutique sale.
  • Sagek - Sanctuary
    Sagek - Sanctuary Posts: 1,156 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Divine_Death - Harshlands wrote: »
    No I'm saying they control how they want they economy to go because they control Boutique sale.

    Ok, but in my opinion that is PWI providing the rope. players control how much in game content cost. Altho there are things that PWI has tried to set prices on such as with TT mats from the mystery merchant. but most people who sell their wares through catshop control how much Items sell for.
  • Decus - Dreamweaver
    Decus - Dreamweaver Posts: 5,033 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Sagek - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Ok, but in my opinion that is PWI providing the rope. players control how much in game content cost. Altho there are things that PWI has tried to set prices on such as with TT mats from the mystery merchant. but most people who sell their wares through catshop control how much Items sell for.

    No, the value of the commodity is what "prices" it, so to speak. Look at the math with packs.
    Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
    Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "Any skills that can be used to kill you will interrupt BB when successful." -truekossy | "...Sage archers are kind of like Mac owners. They are proud of the weirdest and most unnecessary things." -Aesthor | "We ALL know Jesus doesn't play PWI. He may have suffered a lot for humanity, but he'd NEVER punish himself this way." -Abstractive | "I approve of bananas." -SashaGray
  • Sagek - Sanctuary
    Sagek - Sanctuary Posts: 1,156 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    No, the value of the commodity is what "prices" it, so to speak. Look at the math with packs.

    I am not even going to pretend I am anywhere on your lvl with math.

    but are you suggesting that catshop prices adjust accordingly? if I missunderstood i apologize.
  • krittycat
    krittycat Posts: 4,187 Community Moderator
    edited January 2012
    Sagek - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I am not even going to pretend I am anywhere on your lvl with math.

    but are you suggesting that catshop prices adjust accordingly? if I missunderstood i apologize.

    What he's saying is that packs have a value. I believe the estimated value is around 400k per pack, or thereabouts. This means that whatever gold price the single pack is at in the boutique has to balance the gold out to the fact that you can get up to 400k in items from that pack.

    That's the common stance of merchants on PWI.
    krittycat.gif
    BLR Forum Moderator
    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • Decus - Dreamweaver
    Decus - Dreamweaver Posts: 5,033 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Sagek - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I am not even going to pretend I am anywhere on your lvl with math.

    but are you suggesting that catshop prices adjust accordingly? if I missunderstood i apologize.

    Forgive me, I was unnecessarily unclear about what I meant. I had gone to look for something I quoted in a previous thread to elaborate on my post, then I was distracted something else. I never came back to edit the post.

    Here's the post in question that explains what I mean in far better terms that I could reproduce:

    First Post: Here Second Post: Here

    KrittyCat wrote: »
    What he's saying is that packs have a value. I believe the estimated value is around 400k per pack, or thereabouts. This means that whatever gold price the single pack is at in the boutique has to balance the gold out to the fact that you can get up to 400k in items from that pack.

    That's the common stance of merchants on PWI.

    Correct. Everyone is free to disagree (and many often do), but it's something that seems patently obvious to me.
    Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
    Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "Any skills that can be used to kill you will interrupt BB when successful." -truekossy | "...Sage archers are kind of like Mac owners. They are proud of the weirdest and most unnecessary things." -Aesthor | "We ALL know Jesus doesn't play PWI. He may have suffered a lot for humanity, but he'd NEVER punish himself this way." -Abstractive | "I approve of bananas." -SashaGray
  • Sagek - Sanctuary
    Sagek - Sanctuary Posts: 1,156 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Forgive me, I was unnecessarily unclear about what I meant. I had gone to look for something I quoted in a previous thread to elaborate on my post, then I was distracted something else. I never came back to edit the post.

    Here's the post in question that explains what I mean in far better terms that I could reproduce:

    First Post: Here Second Post: Here




    Correct. Everyone is free to disagree (and many often do), but it's something that seems patently obvious to me.

    No worrys, thank you for the links I do appreciate.

    So packs are the solo reason the economy is the way it is? I mean it's hard to believe that this is the solo culprit in causing such a huge economic issue. I actually never buy packs as I just view it as a waste, this is were my bias comes from. But seeing the inflated price of items such as Uncannys and Rap's, Tomes, Armor, Molds, Mats, etc. i can't see the connection they have to packs or a valid reason for their prices.

    it does escape me.
  • Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide
    Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide Posts: 934 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Sagek - Sanctuary wrote: »
    No worrys, thank you for the links I do appreciate.

    So packs are the solo reason the economy is the way it is? I mean it's hard to believe that this is the solo culprit in causing such a huge economic issue. I actually never buy packs as I just view it as a waste, this is were my bias comes from. But seeing the inflated price of items such as Uncannys and Rap's, Tomes, Armor, Molds, Mats, etc. i can't see the connection they have to packs or a valid reason for their prices.

    it does escape me.

    These are all inked to drops. (though Tomes are linked with packs and drops.)

    Introduce a 6 week x2 event and eventually massive saturation has occurred, making it hard to get rid of your product. So people start slashing prices to move it.

    Near the end of the x2 the price of the items is no where near what it was prior to the x2 event.

    End the x2 event and people take the opportunity to spike their prices back up. Sometimes they are too greedy and spike it too high. Sometimes 6 weeks of a deflated price has spoiled the player base and they complain. Either way, one side will eventually give in and move on.

    The player base either settles on paying a slightly higher price than they would have preferred, or the merchant has to put his greed in check and lower the price to actually move the product before someone undercuts him and ruins his opportunity at maximum profits.


    This is why you see "inflation" on these items. Packs set the gold price. Accept this. Tokens set the price of Gift Exchange items. Accept this. Need vs Greed sets the price of dropped items. And a mixture of Need vs Greed/Supply and Demand sets the price of dropped items during a x2 event.
  • Divine_Death - Harshlands
    Divine_Death - Harshlands Posts: 323 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Sagek - Sanctuary wrote: »
    No worrys, thank you for the links I do appreciate.

    So packs are the solo reason the economy is the way it is? I mean it's hard to believe that this is the solo culprit in causing such a huge economic issue. I actually never buy packs as I just view it as a waste, this is were my bias comes from. But seeing the inflated price of items such as Uncannys and Rap's, Tomes, Armor, Molds, Mats, etc. i can't see the connection they have to packs or a valid reason for their prices.

    it does escape me.

    PWI Econ 101:

    By all means, packs don't completely control the economy. Although because the wide variety of items that are now from packs (gears, things from token), it's got "weight". Meaning changes made to pack trickle down to all the things packs produce. But back to my point. When people talk about "economy" they often mean gold price. When people are complaining about "economy" they aren't usually talking about molds that use to be 4 mil to buy that are now 100k, or the massive cheap mats and huge increase in coin flow between players during 2X (money change hand much quicker during 2X. People farming mats, farming coins, trading mats for coins. And just like RL eco, people willing to spend leads to economic boom. This is backed up by much higher sale rate of all goods from all shops, mine included, that were selling slow before 2X). Yes, 2X stimulates the economy as a whole, even if farmers don't think so due to lower price of mats. What was I saying, yes, when people talk about bad "economy" they usually mean gold price. While packs don't control the whole economy, they are one of the 3 things that mostly dictate gold price - packs, orbs, rank. Those 3 are so because they have the most demand out of everything in Boutique. Yes, if these are not on sale and Tisha stones go on sale for 1 silver each, gold will rise. But since the demand for Tisha isn't nearly as big, it results in - first, way less people trying to buy gold to get Tisha for themselves and second, way less merchants trying to get them to resell. Thus things like Tisha or storage sale, even if 75% off, will not be enough to keep gold price up for long. Only things with such demand as the 3 mentioned can sustain high gold prices. For other things, limited demand leads to demand getting filled much quicker, leads to lower daily usage of gold, leads to higher supply of gold, and behold, law of supply/demand takes over and gold price drops. So yes packs (along with orbs and rank) do control most of the "economy" in the sense most people use that word, gold prices.

    If nothing puts on sale for months, gold price will keep falling to the new "floor" according to "normal" prices of things. PWE doesn't set cap for gold price, but set floors. 22 silver packs ensure 1.8 mil floor. The gold floor is much lower than 1.5 mil with current sales, but is up because people are buying up gold for future sales. If this doesn't change for a few more weeks gold will hit the floor, whatever that maybe, depending on pack price or orb price. A clear example of this is that PWE didn't do a major sale for 2-3 months, and gold went back down to 500-600k, after 800-900k was the norm for a long time due to 50 silver packs. Since packs were back to 1 gold each, there were no things that were worth buying 800k gold for, so after people soon stocked up all the gold they can for future sales, no one was keep buying 800k gold so price went down.

    In summary, sales of things with server wide demand sets gold price floor.

Categories