cleric as aoe dd

Severos - Raging Tide

was wondering about clerics (or just pro ones) to be AOE DD,
personally i'm sure i can be a good one, all aoe attack skills are lvl 10
last time i did fc with a squad and had another cleric i was aoe dd and hit mobs like 25k with tempest (no HF/TM/poison... only tempest) and i got agro for a sec before barb roar
think a pro cleric with good timing can do few aoes in a row as aoe dd and with HF and other increasing damage skills we can be aoe dds maybe better than some other classes
for example: tempest-razor feather-siren's kiss-razor feather-chi pot-tempest-razor feather-cloud eruption-siren's kiss....
those will make really good aoe

anyone ever tried the same before?

Kanmi - Sanctuary

Severos - Raging Tide wrote: »

was wondering about clerics (or just pro ones) to be AOE DD,
personally i'm sure i can be a good one, all aoe attack skills are lvl 10
last time i did fc with a squad and had another cleric i was aoe dd and hit mobs like 25k with tempest (no HF/TM/poison... only tempest) and i got agro for a sec before barb roar
think a pro cleric with good timing can do few aoes in a row as aoe dd and with HF and other increasing damage skills we can be aoe dds maybe better than some other classes
for example: tempest-razor feather-siren's kiss-razor feather-chi pot-tempest-razor feather-cloud eruption-siren's kiss....
those will make really good aoe

anyone ever tried the same before?

Which class are you refering to ?

Edit : Btw TM has no effect on Tempest

PriestRain - Raging Tide

Actually to answer to your question about AoEing as cleric, is simply impossible. We have only 1 skill that is non-chi. Other skills siren's kiss and tempest, but they cost 1,2sparks. Which makes us unable to work as aoe dds...Going sage might help with chi issuses, but i didn't get Siren's kiss and Tempest to tell u if it really works...

And btw... gz for 2clerics in fc o.O I rarely find one for my psy lol

Kanmi - Sanctuary

PriestRain - Raging Tide wrote: »

Actually to answer to your question about AoEing as cleric, is simply impossible. We have only 1 skill that is non-chi. Other skills siren's kiss and tempest, but they cost 1,2sparks. Which makes us unable to work as aoe dds...Going sage might help with chi issuses, but i didn't get Siren's kiss and Tempest to tell u if it really works...

And btw... gz for 2clerics in fc o.O I rarely find one for my psy lol

I have both sage version of Siren and Tempest . Actually after several tries, when i have 3 spark and use Tempest it always use 2 sparks... but when i only have 2 seems i have more chance to only consume 1 . Siren Kiss i barely use it but its only 25% chance so...

3 AoE for a class can't define an AOE DD . We don't have constant AoE, don't see the benefit of eating chi pot (2mins cooldown btw) .

Eariala - Sanctuary

With Razor Feathers, Siren's Kiss and Tempest (last two sage and their chance of using less sparks), and using a lot teas, you can have a decent delta run as AoE DD, and using the remaining phys resistant mobs a chi-source it works well.

With a good veno, it's the cooldown that slows you down, but that gap is just big enough for buffing/debuffing (the one in my usual squad can keep the barb, BM, other cleric and me rather full of chi)

(but it is a lot more demanding on charms/pots then the normal healing role in delta, and you won't like the repairbills too)

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver

To be frank, we suck as AOE DD'ers. As was stated by Priestrain, we only have 1 non chi AOE skill...razor feathers, and that one has quite a bit of a cooldown to be our sole non chi AOE skill, plus isn't effective on physical resistant ones. Our only other choices are tempest and siren's kiss. Siren's kiss forces us to get into physical range and costs a spark, with a bit of a cooldown, so that's out. Tempest is our best nuke, but it costs 2 sparks, and has a long cooldown. We don't have a static AOE, and we don't have other non chi AOE's to cover the cooldown in razor feathers. Non only that, two of our three ulti's are...well party enhancing aura's. Chi pot's tend to cost, so I won't use them just to AOE, unless its the rare occasion in party that I need to triple spark tempest. Aside from that, I normally use them to ensure BB is ready. I'd also be skeptical of murdering the genie too. AOE potential (with the exception of grinding wood poison mobs), is one of my biggest complaints involving clerics. It's pretty lackluster with what we've been given...so I rolled a baby wiz and psy. Lol.

Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear

Clerics can be possilby ok AOE DDs in Delta paired with another cleric in BB , and with CHI aura activated.


But in that case , an Archer/Wiz/psy/Seeker would be much more useful.

Cleric attacks dont focus on AOE , they focus in exploiting your enemy's weaknesses as you can attack with both physical and magic (metal) skills and debuffing their defences

Nine_Lives - Raging Tide

b:cry sorry but no, just no.

Try Metal Maging later in the next expansion...the damage is pathetic, the CD is horrible in your only non chi skill and there are better uses for that chi/ spark though.

Like keaping the REAL AOE DD'S ALIVE

Decus - Dreamweaver

A second cleric as an AOE DD in delta is a waste of space. You're more beneficial to the squad doing the veno job (if no veno is present).

I don't think clerics should only heal, but AOE DDs we are not.

Baby_pho - Heavens Tear

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

A second cleric as an AOE DD in delta is a waste of space. You're more beneficial to the squad doing the veno job (if no veno is present).

I don't think clerics should only heal, but AOE DDs we are not.

I completely agree

but all in all cleric aoe dd is ok at zen parties(when you happen to have another cleric bb or heal w/e),event when you are by urself not in a squad, warsong when there's another cleric bb you can aoe and pull everything for the fun of it, in tt mob pulls where you know the bm can stun/aoe with the sin and veno aoe and the cleric aoe and everything die in basically 1 shot. saying so if you do a w2 rb bh or w3 with faction member and friends and there happens to be another cleric it is ok.

but full rb i dont recomend there be antoher cleric bc it would go way faster and more efficient with another bm/seeker/wiz/psy.

Vindis - Dreamweaver

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver wrote: »

To be frank, we suck as AOE DD'ers. As was stated by Priestrain, we only have 1 non chi AOE skill...razor feathers, and that one has quite a bit of a cooldown to be our sole non chi AOE skill, plus isn't effective on physical resistant ones. Our only other choices are tempest and siren's kiss. Siren's kiss forces us to get into physical range and costs a spark, with a bit of a cooldown, so that's out. Tempest is our best nuke, but it costs 2 sparks, and has a long cooldown. We don't have a static AOE, and we don't have other non chi AOE's to cover the cooldown in razor feathers. Non only that, two of our three ulti's are...well party enhancing aura's. Chi pot's tend to cost, so I won't use them just to AOE, unless its the rare occasion in party that I need to triple spark tempest. Aside from that, I normally use them to ensure BB is ready. I'd also be skeptical of murdering the genie too. AOE potential (with the exception of grinding wood poison mobs), is one of my biggest complaints involving clerics. It's pretty lackluster with what we've been given...so I rolled a baby wiz and psy. Lol.

I totally had you as an aoe DD in Delta the other night lols. hiya

Clerics aren't meant to be DDs. Their damage is rather sad compared to any class designed to DD (Wiz/Psy/Archer). Still though, extra heals help. Delta w2 was so easy it didnt matter that we had 2 clerics. I just wanted someone to open it so I could finish the damn BH lols.

Btw, I totally got Excitement Card off that Delta ;D

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I totally had you as an aoe DD in Delta the other night lols. hiya

Clerics aren't meant to be DDs. Their damage is rather sad compared to any class designed to DD (Wiz/Psy/Archer). Still though, extra heals help. Delta w2 was so easy it didnt matter that we had 2 clerics. I just wanted someone to open it so I could finish the damn BH lols.

Btw, I totally got Excitement Card off that Delta ;D

if clerics arent meant to be DDs how the hell did they level back in 2008....

anyway, cleric dmg is decent. What the problem is tho, is compared to other classes we arent designed to spam them. We have alot of factors that chain us down moreso than others including, #of skills, channeling, #spark+gain, and also the mindset of 'healer' that affects our gear choices that may in turn affect our performance.

Vindis - Dreamweaver

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

if clerics arent meant to be DDs how the hell did they level back in 2008....

anyway, cleric dmg is decent. What the problem is tho, is compared to other classes we arent designed to spam them. We have alot of factors that chain us down moreso than others including, #of skills, channeling, #spark+gain, and also the mindset of 'healer' that affects our gear choices that may in turn affect our performance.

No. Ideally, I would like clerics to DD as much as possible. I don't get mad if they DD some as long as someone is keeping us all alive. I stunlock pretty much every mob I'm able to so I actually encourage DD out of the cleric rather than useless IHs or god forbid an unneeded Chromatic.

However, my GF plays a cleric of equal refines (+7 r8 wep) and when duoing FC I can kill a mob on 2nd boss faster unsparked (with a bow) than her if she 3 sparks (Demon; Pure Mag) on the other one. Thats not saying she can't DD, I am just saying that clerics can't DD harder than at least 8 of the other classes (I know Cleric, Mystic and Veno are pretty low on dps compared to other classes, not sure which is the lowest).

Clerics can hurt, but they were not originally designed to be a DD class. Henceforth they can't crank out the damage out put of other classes (Wiz/Psy/Archer/Sin). I can easily out DD a cleric or Veno in caster nirvana. I'm personally hoping the new MM mode will at least give them a boost so that their attacks are a bit more equivalent to other casters. Right now, they only seem to DD well if I throw up TS for them (which I do on occasion, because I like when clerics attack some in between heals; I'm pretty sure thats part of why archers even have TS).

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No. Ideally, I would like clerics to DD as much as possible. I don't get mad if they DD some as long as someone is keeping us all alive. I stunlock pretty much every mob I'm able to so I actually encourage DD out of the cleric rather than useless IHs or god forbid an unneeded Chromatic.

However, my GF plays a cleric of equal refines (+7 r8 wep) and when duoing FC I can kill a mob on 2nd boss faster unsparked (with a bow) than her if she 3 sparks (Demon; Pure Mag) on the other one. Thats not saying she can't DD, I am just saying that clerics can't DD harder than at least 8 of the other classes (I know Cleric, Mystic and Veno are pretty low on dps compared to other classes, not sure which is the lowest).

Clerics can hurt, but they were not originally designed to be a DD class. Henceforth they can't crank out the damage out put of other classes (Wiz/Psy/Archer/Sin). I can easily out DD a cleric or Veno in caster nirvana. I'm personally hoping the new MM mode will at least give them a boost so that their attacks are a bit more equivalent to other casters. Right now, they only seem to DD well if I throw up TS for them (which I do on occasion, because I like when clerics attack some in between heals; I'm pretty sure thats part of why archers even have TS).

i did mention we arent designed to spam skills >>

Mitachi - Dreamweaver

Oh look another DD cleric that thinks he can match the DD of other classes...
Clerics will NEVER match up to other classes, our damage of our skills are just too low.

thumbs

Lots of ignorance in this thread. No one has even defined what an AoE DD is. For that matter: Any class that AoE's is an AoE DD. -Fail all those that said Cleric's aren't. Who's been able to point out a particular situation where a Cleric would fail as an AoE DD? -Any?

As someone pointed out already; if you need AoE for Rebirth and another Cleric is an option: Chi isn't a factor. -A Cleric could cut it. AoE Farming in VoS? - they're what? - 1-2 hit kills by today's standards? -Enough respawn time to regain those sparks?

I'm tired of people thinking cleric's sole job is to heal in every instance. I know some people out there love to play a supporting role, but that doesn't have to pigeon hole everyone else.

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver

Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I totally had you as an aoe DD in Delta the other night lols. hiya

Clerics aren't meant to be DDs. Their damage is rather sad compared to any class designed to DD (Wiz/Psy/Archer). Still though, extra heals help. Delta w2 was so easy it didnt matter that we had 2 clerics. I just wanted someone to open it so I could finish the damn BH lols.

Btw, I totally got Excitement Card off that Delta ;D

Lol. Hey man. Yeah. That's one of the few times that I was able to AOE. I still mixed some heals and sage charge in though for the chi, extra boost in healing, and to cover the cooldown in my AOE's (b:surrender), but it is nice to be able to DD and AOE sometimes. I use Jones Blessings, so I get some boost in damage, and yes....wave two is quite easy....even for an AOE cleric...especially one that waits for others to AOE first, before AOE'ing, so that I don't take aggro. Lol.

Oh, and congrats on the excitement card. b:victory

I think I got chips. b:cryb:angry

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver

thumbs wrote: »

Lots of ignorance in this thread. No one has even defined what an AoE DD is. For that matter: Any class that AoE's is an AoE DD. -Fail all those that said Cleric's aren't. Who's been able to point out a particular situation where a Cleric would fail as an AoE DD? -Any?

As someone pointed out already; if you need AoE for Rebirth and another Cleric is an option: Chi isn't a factor. -A Cleric could cut it. AoE Farming in VoS? - they're what? - 1-2 hit kills by today's standards? -Enough respawn time to regain those sparks?

I'm tired of people thinking cleric's sole job is to heal in every instance. I know some people out there love to play a supporting role, but that doesn't have to pigeon hole everyone else.

Can any class be used as an AOE DD? Yes.

Are clerics AN EFFECTIVE AOE DD'er? The answer is no.

I can AOE if its necessary. I can DD if its necessary. I'll try to tank bosses if its necessary.

Lets see how other classes are for AOE?

Seeker: Vortex, and other AOE skills. Vortex is static.

Wizard: BT, MS, DB, HS, and a few other AOE's.

Archer: BOA, and other AOE skills.

BM: HF, and other AOE skills.

Psys: A bunch of AOE's.

Other classes that have some AOE's, but are not well known for it are:

Mystic

Veno

Classes that have AOE's, but are not AOE specialists...i.e: Limited AOE's with long cooldowns, or high costs are:

Clerics:

Sins:

Barbs:

In the right circumstances, yes any class can AOE DD. However, other classes are much better at it than clerics. Here's why...

Cleric AOE skills:

Tempest: 2 sparks, 30 sec. cooldown. Metal Damage

Siren's Kiss: 1 spark, 15 second cooldown. Chance to seal...at close range, Metal Damage

Razor feathers: No chi required, 8 second cooldown, Physical damage.

NORMAL ROLE: Healer, buffer, reviver. Typically the backbone of a party. You can breathe easier if there are 2 clerics, but clerics do not SPECIALIZE in AOE DD'ing. Here's more proof. 2 of our 3 ulti's are AURA's. For ulti's, we get RB, BB, and Tempest. Even our other healing counterpart gets thicket and Cragglord as ulti's to attack with.

Now, I will agree with you that healing is not required in every single instance. For example, I did a few alt fc runs. My heals were not needed. Bp was sufficing for them with a heal or two every now and then. That said, I started to switch to DD tactics more. It's not the easiest thing in the world to almost completely switch from keeping an eye on someone's hp to DD'ing, especially if you've been doing it for so long in nearly every instance. You have to understand, that clerics...unless they play a high level sin, don't really know what bp is really healing you for. If you can get by on bp, respectfully announce it in squad chat that you can do so. This allows for maximum damage, and helps to ensure the cleric does not look noob when they start to DD. Some sins have high attack power, but fairly low defense. Bp heals them for a LOT, but their hp goes down quickly too. Clerics only see the drop in hp, and feel that bp is on a loosing battle since your hp is rapidly dropping before shooting back up again. Thus, they stack with IH. Why? Its what they've been doing to save their comrades this whole time. So, if you have low defense but high bp heals, announce, In Squad Chat, not to worry if their hp falls, because no matter how low, bp will heal you due to your damage. If you just whisper it, then blame falls on the cleric from the squad. If the cleric assumes, then the cleric fails. So what's left for a cleric...HEAL. That said, clerics can DD in squad, but normally can do so more comfortably with a second cleric, and if they are solo, then aren't as likely to, due to their experience in playing a role of a healer, and of that whole paragraph, the point is not whether they can DD, but whether they make good AOE DD'ers, and that answer is No.

Other classes beat us hands down.

thumbs

I don't read harsh colored walls of text, but ty anyway.

Decus - Dreamweaver

thumbs wrote: »

I don't read harsh colored walls of text, but ty anyway.

Now now, let's be honest here! Don't sell yourself short! You don't read at all

Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear

thumbs wrote: »

I don't read harsh colored walls of text, but ty anyway.

Pure excusion .... and u want others to take you seriously ?

thumbs

Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Pure excusion .... and u want others to take you seriously ?

You want to be read? -Don't be obnoxious and harsh. I've told my aunt and mother not to send me emails with all CAPS. They didn't: they got ignored. Some will never learn. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrnoR9cBP3o

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

thumbs wrote: »

You want to be read? -Don't be obnoxious and harsh. I've told my aunt and mother not to send me emails with all CAPS. They didn't: they got ignored. Some will never learn. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrnoR9cBP3o

Etiquette rules are different in every country. This being an international game, insisting everyone follow YOUR narrow viewpoint on what etiquette rules should be followed when you don't know general message board culture in their country is kinda rude. Do you want to know what is rude in all countries? Insulting people, name-calling exists in every language. You do it all the time. Calling people fails, is obnoxious and harsh. People still read your posts. Those etiquette sites you keep posting also say not to resort to name calling. The same sites that say not to type in all caps say "insults are uncivilized." Calling someone a fail is a personal insult. Calling anyone who uses a specific build a mooch is an insult. Either be polite and follow the rules, or don't get mad when someone else disagrees with one and breaks it just like you do, time and again.


@Topic

Besides poison grinding, are clerics particulary great at being an AOE DD? Nope, not really. All classes have AOE, but having an AOE an AOE class does not make. I wouldn't stop one from doing so if there are two clerics in the squad, but I wouldn't recommend making one just for that purpose either. You'd be better off with an archer, psychic, or wizard if you prefer ranged attacks. Although be forewarned that a lot of squads prefer Archers use fists for the most part.

Mitachi - Dreamweaver

thumbs wrote: »

You want to be read? -Don't be obnoxious and harsh. I've told my aunt and mother not to send me emails with all CAPS. They didn't: they got ignored. Some will never learn. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrnoR9cBP3o

Now because others don't agree with your view you go all "OMG OH NO YOU DID-ENT" on their ***. You want others to read what you say but you won't read their side, you can't have your bread buttered on both sides. Grow up.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Mitachi - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Now because others don't agree with your view you go all "OMG OH NO YOU DID-ENT" on their ***. You want others to read what you say but you won't read their side, you can't have your bread buttered on both sides. Grow up.

you guys wont get anywhere with thumbs b:surrender hes the guy that declared VIT cleric utterly and universally useless cause that was what he experienced.

thumbs

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Etiquette rules are different in every country. This being an international game, insisting everyone follow YOUR narrow viewpoint on what etiquette rules should be followed when you don't know general message board culture in their country is kinda rude.

It's not culture. Posting in ways that's difficult/ annoying/ hard to read is simply rude and not a narrow viewpoint. I'm also not insisting everyone follow. I'm suggesting that if you want to be heard. So cut the **** already.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

thumbs wrote: »

It's not culture. Posting in ways that's difficult/ annoying/ hard to read is simply rude and not a narrow viewpoint. I'm also not insisting everyone follow. I'm suggesting that if you want to be heard. So cut the **** already.

Yes, message board forum etiquette is in fact, culture. Etiquette of any kind is culture. What is right in some cultures is wrong in others. Social norms, moral, etc are all culture. You say it's difficult to read, but you're not making an attempt. Ignoring people and calling people names is far more rude than choosing to post in a color that contrasts properly against the background. At any rate this all off-topic, so i won't reply further.

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver

thumbs wrote: »

It's not culture. Posting in ways that's difficult/ annoying/ hard to read is simply rude and not a narrow viewpoint. I'm also not insisting everyone follow. I'm suggesting that if you want to be heard. So cut the **** already.

You're one to talk about being rude I can see it just fine on my computer. You can't see it, so here.... I'll edit the color on it so you can. Previous post edited. Now it can be read.

Mekkhala - Lost City

if you're going to get a second healer that can aoe DD, get a mystic.

They can aoe with a plant, themselves, and a summon at almost the same time. And they can debuff the entire group of mobs.

The only slight issue I've had with aoe'ing on mystic is that the mobs will sometimes spread- but they'll run right back to their former position.

L_BUFF_YOU - Sanctuary

I know a couple of clerics in sanctuary that run delta as DDers, neither seems to post in the forums though, but obviously both are R9 +12, from the comments I heard from a factionmate of my main, one of those clerics was constantly one shotting the mobs in several waves of delta with tempest.

But I agree that normally clerics sucks as DDers, and a wizard with the same gear would do better IMO.

Kanmi - Sanctuary

L_BUFF_YOU - Sanctuary wrote: »

I know a couple of clerics in sanctuary that run delta as DDers, neither seems to post in the forums though, but obviously both are R9 +12, from the comments I heard from a factionmate of my main, one of those clerics was constantly one shotting the mobs in several waves of delta with tempest.

But I agree that normally clerics sucks as DDers, and a wizard with the same gear would do better IMO.

One of them is R9 full DoT "offensive build" as he likes to call himself .