Deicide vs. R8 Daggers

SinFulGodX - Sanctuary

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

@ Olbaze : I think he's a lvl100 collector. When you make others pay for you lvling up (let's face it, 90% of those who sell heads got their own alt in squad), it's easy to get a lot of lvl100 toons that will just stack up keys for 99 key runs. When you got a toon on other account that can solo the rap boss, it's double jackpot.

This is my main and only toon above lvl 40 b:bye

I will probably stack my keys until 2x to make the most of them

Typhyse - Sanctuary wrote: »

I know sinful in-game. He isn't that kind of player lol.

Thank you. b:pleased


_______________________________________________________________________

Oh and i cant really afford demon skills because im saving all my money to buy R8 and TT99.

Typhyse - Sanctuary

SinFulGodX - Sanctuary wrote: »

Thank you. b:pleased

No problem brob:pleased

Empu - Sanctuary

SinFulGodX - Sanctuary wrote: »

This is my main and only toon above lvl 40 b:bye

I will probably stack my keys until 2x to make the most of them.

Then good luck farming vana for your gear in vana : cf Olbaze's post

Btw, you may have seen it as a critisizm, but it's not. I know several players that lvled 3+ toons to 100 while they don't play those toons, just to have them stack up vana keys. They only run 99 key runs (besides on their real toon maybe). This is actually 1 of the easiest ways to make your vana armor parts without buying cannies. Especially if you don't belong to the category of bms/sins that get spammed for vana on 2x.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

Many sins/high aps people farm nirvana because it's:

1.) Easy to get to
2.) Easy to learn
3.) Very easy to run
4.) Gives some profit in running
5.) More people run this than TT (even though TT has higher yields)
6.) Everyone is widely known to run this during x2


Most people don't run TT because it's "too complicated" for them to learn. >.>

I run Nirvy mainly because most people I know want me in their squad, and because my runs tend to be 6-9 mins max, so profits are relatively nice for the effort required.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

Many sins/high aps people farm nirvana because it's:

1.) Easy to get to
2.) Easy to learn
3.) Very easy to run
4.) Gives some profit in running
5.) More people run this than TT (even though TT has higher yields)
6.) Everyone is widely known to run this during x2


Most people don't run TT because it's "too complicated" for them to learn. >.>

I run Nirvy mainly because most people I know want me in their squad, and because my runs tend to be 6-9 mins max, so profits are relatively nice for the effort required.

The problem with TT is that it's much, much more random and takes more time. In TTs, you spend quite some time running around from boss to the next. Especially if you have a high DD squad, you'll probably spend more time running between the bosses than actually killing the bosses, which is kinda redundant.

And there's really no way to complete a TT as fast as a Nirvana run. And Nirvana runs have a much, much more stable market.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

Thanks for filling in the gaps I missed Olbaze XD

Also not to mention Nirvana runs take up 8 spots at most (4 G9 gems, Mirages, P Stones, and Cannies/Raps), so keeping an organized group of items for the squad you run multiple runs with is much easier than doing group TT.

You could indeed solo TT, but some prefer groupwork instead.

Traz - Dreamweaver

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

The problem with TT is that it's much, much more random and takes more time. In TTs, you spend quite some time running around from boss to the next. Especially if you have a high DD squad, you'll probably spend more time running between the bosses than actually killing the bosses, which is kinda redundant.

And there's really no way to complete a TT as fast as a Nirvana run. And Nirvana runs have a much, much more stable market.

Solo/Duo TTs yield highest profits you can get during 2x.

Empu - Sanctuary

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

I see. No one really shunned me for being a claw sin, but people on sin forums tend to do that xD.

It's just with minimum str to wear the claws, your DPS will be severely lacking compared to daggers, which are dex-based in terms of damage.

Just yesterday I was in fcc with my cleric (lvl90-97 squad, my cleric 99). 1 of the 3 sins, the highest lvl, was using deicides. I didn't really compare gear, but it was the lvl91 sin tanking and not the lvl97 with deicides. I also got wispered something like "b:surrender deicide sin *rolls eyes*" And that was not a forum person.

There are a few fist-sins on sanc. And that is prolly one of the reasons wc for fast squad asks for weapon link now. If I do get in squad with some of them, there usually go wispers to reform squad without that person after. Like "let's get a bm in his/her place, at least they got hf". Basicly they are considered "less then archers", and they are not all that wanted unless they got bloodvow.

SinFulGodX - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yea sorta my pace without the tome. I want to use Deicide to farm in vana as a "5.0 sin" to get into APS-obssessed squads. I will only use them until i get vana pants which will allow me to permaspark with my R8 daggers.

Having 5 aps may give you a small adventage on wc squads, but fast squads won't look at only your aps. The good dps players all seem to know, who is 5 aps and does real damage, which archer has bloodvow and good fists, which bm has demon hf and know how to time it, and all those things that really make a squad fast. Also keep in mind, if you want to go with fast squads, you kill most bosses in 2 sparks max.

Ofc, decide for yourself, but as a sin on same server I can say that being 5 aps with deicides won't make you more wanted for vana then r8. The most important is not to get into a wc squad, but to be remembered and re-invited before they wc the next time.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just yesterday I was in fcc with my cleric (lvl90-97 squad, my cleric 99). 1 of the 3 sins, the highest lvl, was using deicides. I didn't really compare gear, but it was the lvl91 sin tanking and not the lvl97 with deicides. I also got wispered something like "b:surrender deicide sin *rolls eyes*" And that was not a forum person.

There are a few fist-sins on sanc. And that is prolly one of the reasons wc for fast squad asks for weapon link now. If I do get in squad with some of them, there usually go wispers to reform squad without that person after. Like "let's get a bm in his/her place, at least they got hf". Basicly they are considered "less then archers", and they are not all that wanted unless they got bloodvow.

XD Luckily the squads I ran no one really said anything. In fact, someone was cheering for me at one point o.O

I think it's just back then before I turned 100, where FCC services weren't around, and there weren't that many power levelers, clawsins back in the day weren't as common as today.

Since of course new sins today who buy their way up would use claws since they spent all of their money buying FC services while having very little to spend on gear, and very little time to know the mechanics of a sin.


I spent the time comparing damage outputs between +3 H&T with 2 g7 garnets at 3.33 APS sparked with level 10 Dagger Devotion, and the damage output of min-strength +3 Deicides with 1 g7 garnet at 5.0 APS sparked, and the 5.0 did roughly the same, if not a little bit more, damage as the 3.33 H&T. This was at level 95.

It was fun because I've never experienced 5 APS before xD. But once I hit 100, R8 out damaged both by a LONG shot.

Empu - Sanctuary

@ Skai : thing is, here the comparison is r8 vs deicides, not tt80 vs deicides.

Also, on sanctuary, and I'm sure it's the same on all servers, wc starts to understand that just 5 aps doesn't mean that person is a dps monster. The common wc now is "need aps DD for vana. pm me class/aps/link". A sin deicides is, dps wise, just an archer without the bow adventage on chicken, everyone knows that.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

@Empu That's good to hear. The same is semi-happening here at RT. Though random squads usually aren't all that good

And yeah, that is true, and R8 will outdamage Deicides no matter what. But I was trying to emphasize that even with 5 APS, Deicides does about the same damage as 3.33 H&T.

apex1predator

how can a sin get 3.33 aps at 95? is there some magical set i missed? 2,86 is max for daggers untill 99 and then its 3.33 aps afaik

Traz - Dreamweaver

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

@ Skai : thing is, here the comparison is r8 vs deicides, not tt80 vs deicides.

Also, on sanctuary, and I'm sure it's the same on all servers, wc starts to understand that just 5 aps doesn't mean that person is a dps monster. The common wc now is "need aps DD for vana. pm me class/aps/link". A sin deicides is, dps wise, just an archer without the bow adventage on chicken, everyone knows that.

You sometimes have to be careful. If the sin did stat for str and wore it's HA from bm/barb with good claws it's not that bad. This is even amplified if they can use chill and still be 5.0 sparked. All be it very uncommon, there are still a few good str sins on my server.

Evict - Heavens Tear

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You sometimes have to be careful. If the sin did stat for str and wore it's HA from bm/barb with good claws it's not that bad. This is even amplified if they can use chill and still be 5.0 sparked. All be it very uncommon, there are still a few good str sins on my server.

Why anyone would transfer good HA gear from a BM to a Sin is beyond me.

Empu - Sanctuary

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You sometimes have to be careful. If the sin did stat for str and wore it's HA from bm/barb with good claws it's not that bad. This is even amplified if they can use chill and still be 5.0 sparked. All be it very uncommon, there are still a few good str sins on my server.

What evict said. I will never understand why ppl make a build that requires to switch weapons everytime, when you can accomplish the same thing but better with daggers. (I also believe they must use a -0.1 int fists/claws, which pretty much blocks them at g13 vana) You will still do more damage with daggers, if you want the survivability you can go sage, if you want the bp you can make a sin to buff your bm on other account... Unless you just made a lvl100 sin to collect nirvana keys and don't care that it's just a fishy bm. And yeah I know, I'm harsh on that, ppl do whatever they want. I just don't understand why to make a sin use fists, just stick to bm lol

Also, not relevant to first post. 5 aps sparked with chill would mean he would be way more then 2.86 aps with r8.

Traz - Dreamweaver

Evict - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Why anyone would transfer good HA gear from a BM to a Sin is beyond me.

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

What evict said. I will never understand why ppl make a build that requires to switch weapons everytime, when you can accomplish the same thing but better with daggers. (I also believe they must use a -0.1 int fists/claws, which pretty much blocks them at g13 vana) You will still do more damage with daggers, if you want the survivability you can go sage, if you want the bp you can make a sin to buff your bm on other account... Unless you just made a lvl100 sin to collect nirvana keys and don't care that it's just a fishy bm. And yeah I know, I'm harsh on that, ppl do whatever they want. I just don't understand why to make a sin use fists, just stick to bm lol

Also, not relevant to first post. 5 aps sparked with chill would mean he would be way more then 2.86 aps with r8.

Because spending a few billion for equal LA gear isn't worth it if they have a few billion already in HA gear? ...... .. .. .... .. . ....

Empu - Sanctuary

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Because spending a few billion for equal LA gear isn't worth it if they have a few billion already in HA gear? ...... .. .. .... .. . ....

If you already have that kind of gear, would it actually matter? They only need weapon and leggings anyway... The rest the -int armor is pretty much same, or at least possibly the same, and I believe they need the rank top for 5 aps with chill build.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Because spending a few billion for equal LA gear isn't worth it if they have a few billion already in HA gear? ...... .. .. .... .. . ....

Then again, if you have a few billion in HA gear, you're pretty much looking at a +10 Deicide with 2 Garnet Gems minimum, most likely G13 or G15 fists with +10-12.

Why the hell would you make an assassin at that point? "Damage" can't be the reason since 5 aps with Chill of the Deep is **** and expensive.

Traz - Dreamweaver

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Then again, if you have a few billion in HA gear, you're pretty much looking at a +10 Deicide with 2 Garnet Gems minimum, most likely G13 or G15 fists with +10-12.

Why the hell would you make an assassin at that point? "Damage" can't be the reason since 5 aps with Chill of the Deep is **** and expensive.

For more characters to run nirvana. That's why I have 3 level 101+ and working on 4 and 5. And there is nothing **** or expensive about a chill 5.0 sin with claws if you already have everything...it's a matter of leveling said sin to 100 or 101 and wala lets do more nirvana guys...

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

For more characters to run nirvana. That's why I have 3 level 101+ and working on 4 and 5. And there is nothing **** or expensive about a chill 5.0 sin with claws if you already have everything...it's a matter of leveling said sin to 100 or 101 and wala lets do more nirvana guys...

A 5.0 Chill HA Demon Sin does not exist. Not without screwed up ****ty armor and damage. You see, you will need Rank 8 armor and the TT99 LA bonus. Means you're stuck with either wearing an LA chest and crappy ornaments or wearing 3 pieces of LA.

And why would you need more characters to run on? I'm pretty sure anyone who actually farms nirvana does not do it too much outside of 2x.

Also, if you already have "billions" of coin, as in at least 2,000,000,000 coin, that means you don't need to run Nirvana. And something tells me that you should be vomiting at the mere idea of Nirvana at that point anyway.

Empu - Sanctuary

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

For more characters to run nirvana. That's why I have 3 level 101+ and working on 4 and 5. And there is nothing **** or expensive about a chill 5.0 sin with claws if you already have everything...it's a matter of leveling said sin to 100 or 101 and wala lets do more nirvana guys...

I know many guys with 3+ lvl100, some of them even cause they like those 3 classes and play each of them every single day. None of them runs vana 9 to 12 times a day. Heck, most of them don't even use their keys on their sin/bm untill they got a 2x to get rid of their stock.

Also, why not just get a bm to 100/101, and voila let's do more vana guys... I rather have a bm in squad, then a stealth bm that can't hf/gs.

There are better ways to make more coin out of vana, like lvling a barb/cleric to 100 on seperate account and do 3 man vanas, or make a crapload of lvl100 characters just to collect keys and get the 10 canny rewards.

But I think we got of topic, it's not about HA sins b:laugh

Traz - Dreamweaver

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

I know many guys with 3+ lvl100, some of them even cause they like those 3 classes and play each of them every single day. None of them runs vana 9 to 12 times a day. Heck, most of them don't even use their keys on their sin/bm untill they got a 2x to get rid of their stock.

Also, why not just get a bm to 100/101, and voila let's do more vana guys... I rather have a bm in squad, then a stealth bm that can't hf/gs.

There are better ways to make more coin out of vana, like lvling a barb/cleric to 100 on seperate account and do 3 man vanas, or make a crapload of lvl100 characters just to collect keys and get the 10 canny rewards.

But I think we got of topic, it's not about HA sins b:laugh

Some of us have a blademsters that are already 101? I'm not sure what any of you are trying to argue. If you start off with a good claw barb/bm have +10 claws with 2 garnets all your -int then make a HA sin to do nirvana when others run out of keys or 99 keys on double drops....there is nothing else to it...but you guys seem to be wanting to read into it more? What if I was on archer forum saying it? or the barb forum saying it? or hell even the wizard forum saying it (with G15 revenge claws)?

All I care about is getting the most DD for all the 100+ i can make to run 99 key quests. That's 8 99 key runs a month and on 2x that's 32 raptures and 80 uncanny a month doing 8 runs...

Empu - Sanctuary

@ Traz : I'm not sure what you are trying to argue. You are the one that said a str-build claw sin is "not that bad". If you think a bit, you'll see that for any reason to make a str-build claw sin, you have a better option.

- "getting most DD for all of my 100+", go a dex build with daggers. There is not much gear to buy/make anyway
- "99 key quests", make an account full of venos with firefox and oht armor. Since they are on other account, there is no sharing raps anway cause you can solo rap boss with your super claw bm/barb. If it's just for vana, you can go with lvling a veno with just 3 or 4 skills...
- "already got a bm", in what way is a claw sin different from a bm? It's just other looks, and none of the usefull skills that makes a bm wanted in vana. Not to mention you lost what makes a sin wanted in vana : the high single target damage.
- "to vana more", you would be more wanted as a dagger sin. Like I said before, and where you argue you don't agree, a claw sin would be less wanted as an archer. On sanc at least, most wanted is a sin (with daggers) for the dps, then bm mainly for hf/gs and damage. Those are the classes that ppl want more then 1 in squad off. After would come veno cause they can amp and purge, claw barb for buffs so you can easily go without cleric (and with claws they do some damage too), last archer but depends if they have bv and/or purge weap and/or know how to barage boss+mobs. Claw sin would be between archer and clawbarb in damage, but got none of the advantages of those classes.
- Make more money? If your bm/barbs gear is so great, why aren't you in TT during 2x? Again, any lvl100 would do to collect keys.

Maybe you don't agree, but I know a few clawsins and they don't vana that much. The aps advantage of deicides is just on wc squads (which generally are slow and bad, not to mention full of scammers). For real fast vana, it's more the refines and player that matter. I'm 2.86 aps and get spammed for vana during 2x, even by ppl I don't even know/remember... To me, deicides at 100+ is just the lazy-man's choise. You can always do better with the same time/effort/coin.

Traz - Dreamweaver

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

@ Traz : I'm not sure what you are trying to argue. You are the one that said a str-build claw sin is "not that bad". If you think a bit, you'll see that for any reason to make a str-build claw sin, you have a better option.

- "getting most DD for all of my 100+", go a dex build with daggers. There is not much gear to buy/make anyway
- "99 key quests", make an account full of venos with firefox and oht armor. Since they are on other account, there is no sharing raps anway cause you can solo rap boss with your super claw bm/barb. If it's just for vana, you can go with lvling a veno with just 3 or 4 skills...
- "already got a bm", in what way is a claw sin different from a bm? It's just other looks, and none of the usefull skills that makes a bm wanted in vana. Not to mention you lost what makes a sin wanted in vana : the high single target damage.
- "to vana more", you would be more wanted as a dagger sin. Like I said before, and where you argue you don't agree, a claw sin would be less wanted as an archer. On sanc at least, most wanted is a sin (with daggers) for the dps, then bm mainly for hf/gs and damage. Those are the classes that ppl want more then 1 in squad off. After would come veno cause they can amp and purge, claw barb for buffs so you can easily go without cleric (and with claws they do some damage too), last archer but depends if they have bv and/or purge weap and/or know how to barage boss+mobs. Claw sin would be between archer and clawbarb in damage, but got none of the advantages of those classes.
- Make more money? If your bm/barbs gear is so great, why aren't you in TT during 2x? Again, any lvl100 would do to collect keys.

Maybe you don't agree, but I know a few clawsins and they don't vana that much. The aps advantage of deicides is just on wc squads (which generally are slow and bad, not to mention full of scammers). For real fast vana, it's more the refines and player that matter. I'm 2.86 aps and get spammed for vana during 2x, even by ppl I don't even know/remember... To me, deicides at 100+ is just the lazy-man's choise. You can always do better with the same time/effort/coin.

There is no need to farm an entire new LA set just to do nirvana with your other 100+ alts, so use the HA on the sin just for nirvana, it works perfectly fine, and enjoy your extra 99 key runs/using the keys. b:cute

Empu - Sanctuary

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

There is no need to farm an entire new LA set just to do nirvana with your other 100+ alts, so use the HA on the sin just for nirvana, it works perfectly fine, and enjoy your extra 99 key runs/using the keys. b:cute

There is no need to make a messed up sin just to do vana, so make a HA-class alt just for vana, works perfectly fine, and enjoy your extra 99 key runs/using the keys. b:victory

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

There is no need to make a messed up sin just to do vana, so make a HA-class alt just for vana, works perfectly fine, and enjoy your extra 99 key runs/using the keys. b:victory

... Trust me, next he's gonna tell you "But I already have a Barb and a BM".

Because dude, you don't make 99 key farming alts of the same class, that's redundant.

b:cute

Traz - Dreamweaver

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

... Trust me, next he's gonna tell you "But I already have a Barb and a BM".

Because duide, you don't make 99 key farming alts of the same class, that's redundant.

b:cute

How else can I fill out my super cereal leveling accomplishments on core connect b:shocked





b:laugh

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Plenty of people like me treat their sins like **** children whose only job is to collect nirv keys.

"Ohh you want a shiny new dagger? Too bad! You get these +10 claws from the non-**** in the family."

You make it a sin for the few times you want to stealth to a card boss and to get BP.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Plenty of people like me treat their sins like **** children whose only job is to collect nirv keys.

"Ohh you want a shiny new dagger? Too bad! You get these +10 claws from the non-**** in the family."

You make it a sin for the few times you want to stealth to a card boss and to get BP.

... I get a tingling urge to tell you that Archers using claws is in itself bastardized.

b:cute

How else can I fill out my super cereal leveling accomplishments on core connect

Who the heck eats Super Cereal nowadays? That's so 2010. And as a more relevant point: You only get 3 achievements and the last of them is 90.