I hate the "barbs are worthless" debate. Can someone please help?

Congenial - Heavens Tear
Congenial - Heavens Tear Posts: 34 Arc User
edited May 2011 in Barbarian
I just started this barb like a fortnight (or so) ago and have been doing quests and BHs and went for one FF run. I've been partying with sins and bms who were saying that barbs are useless.

I get it, APS rules all but is a barb that terrible? Besides the horrid repair costs, I think barbs have awesome buffs and skills and can be a real asset if played well. I was just tanking Krixxix just now for my spiritual culti and some BM came up and said that he died a couple of times because his APS was too awesome. ._.

b:question if your APS was super awesome but caused you to die all the time, isn't that more of a curse than a blessing?

But yeah, barbs are a dying class so I'm wondering whether people are like all avoiding barbs cause it's lousy. Suddenly I see seekers being tankers and just wanted to know the future of a barb.

I'm a chick barb so I must say something: WHITE TIGERS ARE HAWT. (purrs)

Barbs, horrid or not, and why?
Post edited by Congenial - Heavens Tear on
Barbs played right are like celebrities, you are welcome in every party - Fistol (Raging Tide)
You're a fantastic barb, and I'd go anywhere with you - Merria (Heavens Tear)

I'm a chick barb, and I'm proud of it. b:pleased
«1345

Comments

  • MAClNTOSH - Dreamweaver
    MAClNTOSH - Dreamweaver Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Barbs don't become "worthless" as people call it until 95+ usually when demon sins/BMs/occasional clawcher gets Deicides and refines them heavily with high -int.

    Before that point, we can usually hold aggro and take damage quite nicely if we play our skills right. And even then, if you really want to, you can restat to a claw build at 95+ and continue to be the main tank (usually). b:cute
  • Fistol - Raging Tide
    Fistol - Raging Tide Posts: 260 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Barbs played right are like Celebrities, you are welcome in every party.

    You always wanted for some instance and worthless is about the last thing i have ever encountered as a barb.

    and if a bm dies due to his uber aps.. tell him to learn to play..
    when you grab aggro, you tank. If you cant, you fail hard as a DD.
    because last i check.. dead bm is 0 aps

    b:laughb:laugh

    and please dont restat till you are level 99 minimum and able to equip all of the key 5aps gears.
    Fist Wizard ~ Truely Unique
    Going for
    Build : pwcalc.com/8b326a9b66b300af
    While waiting
    Build : pwcalc.com/c879da9e1aad795c
    HA Melee (Pre99)-> LA Claw (99+)-> LA Claw+Magic (101)
  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Barbs are still wanted at endgame, especially 5 aps barbs.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."
  • HellWariorB - Raging Tide
    HellWariorB - Raging Tide Posts: 219 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    The barbs are useless is mainly said by many fail players. Yes at 95+ i can't tank triple saprked sins with only FR but when i go triple spark with deicides +5 i can tank over most sins even with same refines.

    Barbs have some awesome skills - Bestial Rage, Invoke, Devour, awesome buffs for parties + a godly genie skill Solid Shield.
    And u have more HP with the same refine and u have kitty form with more HP and deff.

    b:victory
  • HellWariorB - Raging Tide
    HellWariorB - Raging Tide Posts: 219 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    and please dont restat till you are level 99 minimum and able to equip all of the key 5aps gears.

    U can restart at 95 but only if you manage to get 2.86 aps sparked and 8.5-9k HP standing
  • Fiorrello_ - Raging Tide
    Fiorrello_ - Raging Tide Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    a well played barb is a god in this game. there are few classes that can consistently cancel a bosses aoe/spell

    i guess bm's have that skill aswell. but i have yet to ever meet one that uses it, a pro barb on the otherhand is worth it in a squad for that skill alone, not to mention the hp and attack buff
    patience is a virtue
  • Sevas - Heavens Tear
    Sevas - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,132 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Barbs are still wanted at endgame, especially 5 aps barbs.

    I still prefer a barb who can tank. I don't care if you DD for ****. Your class' primary function is to tank. Most squads going into RB or FF or TT want a barb who can tank and not die in a lure. I see far too many barbs at 90+ with 10K HP or so and it scares me because I still expect them to tank. I don't care about the Sin with his aps or the BM with his. I care about the barb because I know if the BM or Sin, who thinks they are going to tank, bites the dust it's the barb who's got to take over.

    Before you all start tearing apart my argument: Yes, this was my first character. Yes, I have played for two years, which means I know what a real barb is like and I used to play with them all the time before the TB/EG releases. Yes, I do have a cleric (L97). Yes, I do have a sin (L83). Yes, yes, yes. So there!

    Barbs should still be the tanks. I don't care if when you buff everyone the BM has 10k HP too or the sin has 6-8k+. I don't care. It used to be that out of self-preservation the real DDs (wizards and archers at the time) would moderate their damage to keep from pulling agro. I have no idea why that changed. I would much rather run a dungeon safely and have it take 2-3hrs than run it in 45min-1hr with a tank that scares the hell out of me with his 6k HP and is "5" aps and have some accidents (because there is always going to be an accident, esp. in TT). Quality, that's what I'm talking about.
  • MAClNTOSH - Dreamweaver
    MAClNTOSH - Dreamweaver Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    It used to be that out of self-preservation the real DDs (wizards and archers at the time) would moderate their damage to keep from pulling agro. I have no idea why that changed.

    This x10000

    I miss those days. b:surrender

    Seems like everyone's thought process has shifted from "Gee, I'd really like to finish this instance and possibly level up today," to "Why aren't I level 100 yet? I've been playing for like a whole week. I need to get through this instance as fast as I possibly can so I can ding 100 within the next couple days (or what's become popular now, paying 100+ 5aps people to run it for you. b:sweat)."
  • BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur
    BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur Posts: 1,842 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    As a wizard, who is clearly not needed in any squad endgame, especially since seekers can fill in in FCC, RB, zhen, etc., Let me share my view.

    Barbs are absolutely NOT worthless.

    First, there is TW. Say what you want, noone can effectively replace a barb there.

    Second, look at world chat. People are constantly begging (and spending in game coin to do it, mind you) to get a barb in their squad.

    Third, their buffs. I have over 10k hp with barb buff. Barb in my squad? Yes please.

    Fourth, they are one of the few classes that can actually hunt assassins. A sure win? No, sins are broken. But barbs and bms and in some cases psychics have a much better chance than the other classes against THE broken class in the game.

    Fifth, pve. Sure, sins and aps classes can tank bosses, etc, but so can barbs, and much more smoothly. clerics don't like aggro pong, and other dds don't like aps classes stealing aggro they can't handle, then dying and causing problems. Superman assassins won't die or lose aggro, but there are ALOT of wanna be's out there that do. I usually prefer a barb because I would rather not find out what kind of aps player I happen to have been squaded up with.

    Sixth, Barbs have the option of going aps too, which means if you get tired of pulling a cata or spamming fleshream, you can solo TT, get on nirvana squads easily, and make some serious in game coin.

    That enough reasons? I have more, but I think you get the point. If you have fun playing a barb, do it, by all means.

    Now, if you want to talk about "sage" barbs being worthless . . . .

    kidding. just kidding

    well, kinda

    b:avoid
    "And as for bragging, I don't need to brag. I am famous, yo. My accomplishments are legendary. I am BLOODMYSTIC, speaker of truth, bane of the Barbarians of Impulse, slayer of the **** of Narla, liberator of all the free peoples of the Archosaur server, former master propagandist for our leader in freedom, Proski, and Archtroll of the PWI Forums. And now? Amiable pve wizard, beloved by all, aka BLUEMYSTIC. Pleased to make your acquaintance."
  • RioNHale - Archosaur
    RioNHale - Archosaur Posts: 566 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    I still prefer a barb who can tank. I don't care if you DD for ****. Your class' primary function is to tank. Most squads going into RB or FF or TT want a barb who can tank and not die in a lure. I see far too many barbs at 90+ with 10K HP or so and it scares me because I still expect them to tank. I don't care about the Sin with his aps or the BM with his. I care about the barb because I know if the BM or Sin, who thinks they are going to tank, bites the dust it's the barb who's got to take over.

    Before you all start tearing apart my argument: Yes, this was my first character. Yes, I have played for two years, which means I know what a real barb is like and I used to play with them all the time before the TB/EG releases. Yes, I do have a cleric (L97). Yes, I do have a sin (L83). Yes, yes, yes. So there!

    Barbs should still be the tanks. I don't care if when you buff everyone the BM has 10k HP too or the sin has 6-8k+. I don't care. It used to be that out of self-preservation the real DDs (wizards and archers at the time) would moderate their damage to keep from pulling agro. I have no idea why that changed. I would much rather run a dungeon safely and have it take 2-3hrs than run it in 45min-1hr with a tank that scares the hell out of me with his 6k HP and is "5" aps and have some accidents (because there is always going to be an accident, esp. in TT). Quality, that's what I'm talking about.


    I have over 24k hp and 5aps :D
    ★Immunity is an Arch Server TW Faction. If you want to join Apply @ immunity.shivtr.com★ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    -Inactive 19 Sept 2011-
  • Sevas - Heavens Tear
    Sevas - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,132 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    You must be a rarity then because I generally see the differences with "aps" barbs and real (tanking) barbs. The HP is usually the first thing to suffer.
  • RioNHale - Archosaur
    RioNHale - Archosaur Posts: 566 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    You must be a rarity then because I generally see the differences with "aps" barbs and real (tanking) barbs. The HP is usually the first thing to suffer.

    I waited a very long time to refine before I restat. wasnt planning to nerf myself tw wise before i went for farming ability too.

    I used a bm for farming before i restat my barb. dex build barb with axe and high stats is awesome pvp wise too so far.
    ★Immunity is an Arch Server TW Faction. If you want to join Apply @ immunity.shivtr.com★ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    -Inactive 19 Sept 2011-
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    [QUOTE=Congenial - Heavens Tear;13074971]I just started this barb like a fortnight (or so) ago and have been doing quests and BHs and went for one FF run. I've been partying with sins and bms who were saying that barbs are useless.

    I get it, APS rules all but is a barb that terrible? Besides the horrid repair costs, I think barbs have awesome buffs and skills and can be a real asset if played well. I was just tanking Krixxix just now for my spiritual culti and some BM came up and said that he died a couple of times because his APS was too awesome. ._.

    b:question if your APS was super awesome but caused you to die all the time, isn't that more of a curse than a blessing?

    But yeah, barbs are a dying class so I'm wondering whether people are like all avoiding barbs cause it's lousy. Suddenly I see seekers being tankers and just wanted to know the future of a barb.

    I'm a chick barb so I must say something: WHITE TIGERS ARE HAWT. (purrs)

    Barbs, horrid or not, and why?[/QUOTE]

    your use of the word fortnight in a game forum is also hawt

    Barbs work out fine as a vit build or as a dex build up to 89/90 its only when you gain acess to hell spark that APS based builds reall shine. By useing equips to gain free stat points to reset to vit a barb can have a lot of HP at low refines even as dex build so no your not really that much squishier if you take this path, it really only matters in TW/mass PVP.

    APS/DPS farming wise, i'm a 5.0 bm with +10 lunar claws and almost 11k unbuffed hp, and i make more by sitting afk in a catshop that i ever did farming. The "OMG NEEDS APS FOR COIN" mentality is pretty skewed. Play whatever build/class is fun for you and run a 2nd client alt to make your coin in a cat (will take about 20 mill seed money).
    and saku hates it :3
    On another note DPS = bloodpaint healing, higher DPS higher healing. Late game this scales to the point where neither barbs nor clerics are nessecary for most runs. So yes late game you will have issues finding non AOE based squads as a vit barb
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    I still prefer a barb who can tank. I don't care if you DD for ****. Your class' primary function is to tank. Most squads going into RB or FF or TT want a barb who can tank and not die in a lure. I see far too many barbs at 90+ with 10K HP or so and it scares me because I still expect them to tank. I don't care about the Sin with his aps or the BM with his. I care about the barb because I know if the BM or Sin, who thinks they are going to tank, bites the dust it's the barb who's got to take over.

    Before you all start tearing apart my argument: Yes, this was my first character. Yes, I have played for two years, which means I know what a real barb is like and I used to play with them all the time before the TB/EG releases. Yes, I do have a cleric (L97). Yes, I do have a sin (L83). Yes, yes, yes. So there!

    Barbs should still be the tanks. I don't care if when you buff everyone the BM has 10k HP too or the sin has 6-8k+. I don't care. It used to be that out of self-preservation the real DDs (wizards and archers at the time) would moderate their damage to keep from pulling agro. I have no idea why that changed. I would much rather run a dungeon safely and have it take 2-3hrs than run it in 45min-1hr with a tank that scares the hell out of me with his 6k HP and is "5" aps and have some accidents (because there is always going to be an accident, esp. in TT). Quality, that's what I'm talking about.
    Ok... *cracks knuckles* time to educate another moron.


    First of all, read this:

    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=983472

    Second of all:


    I tank BETTER with 5 aps than I did with pure vit. First of all is aggro. You're a moron if you think that at endgame a barb can tank. Everyone has a +10 rank 8 weapon now and they will rip aggro from a barb faster than charlie sheen snorting a line of coke. Sure you "COULD" have the DDs hold back, but do you REALLY want to spend 3 hours in nirvana because you had to give the barb 10 minutes on each boss to build aggro? I don't tink so.

    Second is the healing. I can tank a nirvana with no cleric easily. With 5 aps Bloodpaint becomes equal in strength to cleric heals. With my +8 nirvana claws at 5 aps I get healed so much, combine that with a constant 20% hp recovery every 15 seconds and 3 seconds of damage immunity to resist hard hitting attacks and I can tank easier than any vit barb.

    Your comment implying a 5 aps barb cannot tank is INCREDIBLY stupid.

    You're over here implying that "oh it's so scary and they might die and bla bla bla herp derp"

    And I say, lrn2play. Tanking is INCREDIBLY easy with 5 aps. With my -int gears in normal form I'm at around 11.3k hp buffed and ya know what? I've tanked almost everything there is to tank. I've tanked every world boss except for harpy. I've tanked every instance. I've done full delta, TT3-1/2/3, nirvana, warsong, lunar, and trophy mode.


    You're clinging to an outdated, archaeic formula that makes no sense anymore. A pure vit barb can't hold aggro, and unless his gears are AMAZING, when it comes to 3-2/3-3 he's just as squishy as everyone else, a pure vit barb can easily get 2 shot by emperor. I tank much better than a pure vit barb. When our cleric is dead or slept or stunned or w/e I can just keep tanking with bloodpaint and a few crab meats while I wait for the cleric to res/get out of stun/whatever
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    You left out the spark purify <.< >.>
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Sevas - Heavens Tear
    Sevas - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,132 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Ok... *cracks knuckles* time to educate another moron.


    First of all, read this:

    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=983472

    Second of all:


    I tank BETTER with 5 aps than I did with pure vit. First of all is aggro. You're a moron if you think that at endgame a barb can tank. Everyone has a +10 rank 8 weapon now and they will rip aggro from a barb faster than charlie sheen snorting a line of coke. Sure you "COULD" have the DDs hold back, but do you REALLY want to spend 3 hours in nirvana because you had to give the barb 10 minutes on each boss to build aggro? I don't tink so.

    Second is the healing. I can tank a nirvana with no cleric easily. With 5 aps Bloodpaint becomes equal in strength to cleric heals. With my +8 nirvana claws at 5 aps I get healed so much, combine that with a constant 20% hp recovery every 15 seconds and 3 seconds of damage immunity to resist hard hitting attacks and I can tank easier than any vit barb.

    Your comment implying a 5 aps barb cannot tank is INCREDIBLY stupid.

    You're over here implying that "oh it's so scary and they might die and bla bla bla herp derp"

    And I say, lrn2play. Tanking is INCREDIBLY easy with 5 aps. With my -int gears in normal form I'm at around 11.3k hp buffed and ya know what? I've tanked almost everything there is to tank. I've tanked every world boss except for harpy. I've tanked every instance. I've done full delta, TT3-1/2/3, nirvana, warsong, lunar, and trophy mode.


    You're clinging to an outdated, archaeic formula that makes no sense anymore. A pure vit barb can't hold aggro, and unless his gears are AMAZING, when it comes to 3-2/3-3 he's just as squishy as everyone else, a pure vit barb can easily get 2 shot by emperor. I tank much better than a pure vit barb. When our cleric is dead or slept or stunned or w/e I can just keep tanking with bloodpaint and a few crab meats while I wait for the cleric to res/get out of stun/whatever

    Poor Tigey Wigey! Crack your knuckles all you want... I'm not intimidated in the least and I can return fire. YOU may be on a server where barbs are still gods. Barbs on my server suck! Aps barbs have **** for HP, still can't tank, and still have awful damage. I'm the one stuck saving their pathetic bums whether it's on my veno or my cleric. I have not seen a barb tank for squat if a bm or a sin is in the squad. I'm sick of it. I don't care what you think of my opinion about tanking barbs vs aps. I made it based off of what I see in my server. If you are going to educate some morons, educate the barbs who rolled a fail bm with tiger stripes. I have played long enough (3yrs) to know good players when I see them. I'll educate your moronic bum.
  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Poor Tigey Wigey! Crack your knuckles all you want... I'm not intimidated in the least and I can return fire. YOU may be on a server where barbs are still gods. Barbs on my server suck! Aps barbs have **** for HP, still can't tank, and still have awful damage. I'm the one stuck saving their pathetic bums whether it's on my veno or my cleric. I have not seen a barb tank for squat if a bm or a sin is in the squad. I'm sick of it. I don't care what you think of my opinion about tanking barbs vs aps. I made it based off of what I see in my server. If you are going to educate some morons, educate the barbs who rolled a fail bm with tiger stripes. I have played long enough (3yrs) to know good players when I see them. I'll educate your moronic bum.
    You didn't prove ANYTHING or even make an attempt. All you did was say "hurr durr aps barb esh suckzorz." Aps barbs have great damage, tank better than vit barbs, and still have good hp.


    I think what's more likely is that you suck and none of the good barbs on your server will run with you
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."
  • Stressedout - Dreamweaver
    Stressedout - Dreamweaver Posts: 119 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Meh, not worth arguing over. Bottom line, build =/= skill. Good players learn to adapt with whatever class & build they're using. I've seen an 85 BM successfully tank bh69 with a fraction of the hps of a barb, and ofc barbs that fail misreably at tanking regardless of build.
    frankieraye

    Oh the snowmen are coming, don't you worry..
  • Sevas - Heavens Tear
    Sevas - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,132 Arc User
    edited April 2011

    I think what's more likely is that you suck and none of the good barbs on your server will run with you

    No, the barbs suck. When I play my cleric and there is a barb in squad they never tank. That is usually left to the sin or the bm and I have even seen the barb splat. You are the one with a failed argument. You don't know what's on my server and I don't play on RT, at all, so while you may well be an excellent barb that could still mean the barbs who think they have aps and can still tank are just absolute fails. Why don't you take a minute to think about that. If you are a good tank, fine, I'm happy for you. Barbs on my server are different (THAT is the point I have been trying to make you ding-dong).
  • Zaibeast - Archosaur
    Zaibeast - Archosaur Posts: 105 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    5 aps barbs suck for tanking against other 5 aps classes mainly because we don't have the fist mastery such as a BMs or the dagger devotion as the sin classes. 5 aps barbs CANNOT hold aggro from an equally geared BM or another 5 aps sin using daggers. I've checked the damage with other 5 aps and my sin still hits 3 times harder at the same speed. Btw, that barb had 5 aps with +10 lunar claws so refining was not the issue.

    However, it is true in a sense that 5 aps barbs still tank better since barbs are still not as squishy as the other classes and can take more hits (depending on your gear of course).

    You can't honestly say that barbs are useless nowadays since they still serve their purposes. I laugh everytime I see players world chat numerous times and spend hours looking for a barb to tank their FCs, Deltas, TTs, blah blah blah. TW-wise, barbs ARE still needed. A full DD squad without barb buffs is not as effective against another DD squad with barb buffs. Pulling catapults? I dare-say barbs are still the best at pulling catas than any other classes.

    But when it comes to tanking instances and bosses, my sin does fine. I mainly just use my barb to buff him and place my barb on follow b:laugh
  • $hereKhan - Archosaur
    $hereKhan - Archosaur Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    sins and bms who were saying that barbs are useless.

    I get it, APS rules all but is a barb that terrible?

    There are one or two things i have to say right from the start, like any other MMORPG pwi has been designed to give all classes a particular role to play in the game ... and the game balance in most respects is fairly good until ppl start maxing out and pimping their gear to extremes.

    Yes in those cases lines can sometimes get blurred ... but one thing is for certain a tanks ability to hold agro in any situation and his ability to absorb huge amounts of damage allow other classes in your squad to have the freedom to use their skills to take down bosses and mobs.

    The best example i can give you is my regular FC squad, thats does FC runs regularly in under 40 mins averaging 35 - 37 mins usually (and thats includes chatting fooling around and making silly jokes) ... oh when we start doing sin pulls and other alternative FC tactics the FC runs usually end up 45 mins + b:chuckle with atleast one casualty along the way.

    imo go rest your mind and dont worry a good kitty is always in great demand and if you play your character right you will always be welcome in any squad. And as far as APS and dmg goes why dont you stop using flesh ream and your other agro skills for 30 secs in a high lvl boss fight and see what happens to those damage dealers ... they will be decorating the floors along with the rest of the squad, while you will still be alive watching them go down.

    A cleric a BM, a sin and another BM friend asked me to help them kill Dragonroar who btw hits like a freight train dmg wise (from the lvl 89 lochmur quest) 20 secs into the fight even though i have agro the boss does an AOE atk and the entire squad is dead (yay for squishy ppl), leaving me soloing dragonroar and everyone shouting "RUN FOREST RUN" in squad chat. Unfortunatly im a suicidally nutty kitty and i dont run from bosses (either they kill me or i kill them), to cut a long story short it took me about 35 mins to solo Dragonroar balancing my health, buffs , pots and everything else that keeps a kitty alive while the rest of the squad watched on from outside his Aoe range unable to do anything.

    That is why kitties rock, you can do things others can only imagine b:victory

    PS: before i forget ... no matter what your buffs plus your devour and frighten skills make other classes more effective in any fight without you they are just making their lives a lot harder.
  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    5 aps barbs suck for tanking against other 5 aps classes mainly because we don't have the fist mastery such as a BMs or the dagger devotion as the sin classes. 5 aps barbs CANNOT hold aggro from an equally geared BM or another 5 aps sin using daggers.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY


    Sure a 5 aps sin can hold aggro against a 5 aps barb but then again, they can also hold aggro from a BM. Are you saying 5 aps BMs "suck for tanking?"

    I CAN hold aggro from a BM, quite easily. Poison fang makes up for the loss of fist mastery, hell if there's a demon veno in the squad (or is it sage? whichever reduces targets wood defense) I easily do more damage than a BM.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."
  • lizrau
    lizrau Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    I actually prefer playing a 5aps barb than 5aps bm. And it is demon veno.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


    Sig credits to Myra :D
  • Empu - Sanctuary
    Empu - Sanctuary Posts: 1,154 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    I played a barb for 2 years or so as my main and got to lvl100. Till lvl99/100 not much changed. Other classes were always able to tank some bosses, and bh bosses are either in fb 10~20 lvls below, or the easiest boss of the cave in lvl range. Ofc others can tank them, but barb is prefered. All who talk about aps before 90s are plain idiots imo, it's the exponential effect that makes it so damn powerfull in combination with tripple spark. The first -0.05 has barely any effect, and only at lvl99/100 you can get acces to a lot of -int gear. Only tripple spark has an added effect (25% att speed or damage reduc). So, till endgame barb is still the best tank, even if not the only tank.

    At endgame things are really different. The build mainly used till endgame (lots of vit) is wanted for a few specific things (cata pulling, delta), then the buffs are appreciated for some others making ppl still want to invite you even if you'll feel completely useless (metal, 3-3). For the rest, mainly the coin making stuff, you're not wanted cause you'd "slow them down". I hear some stuff like "friends will still invite you", or "if you can't find vana squads you can always make some with the caster classes". But from my personal experience of a lvl100 barb and a lvl100 sin, ther is a HUGE difference. Maybe in some big faction where they want to gear you up for tw you're taken to vana. But you're a dead weight mainly. Taken out of charity, or so you can tank their deltas.

    Ofc, barbs can go fist with aps build too. Then you'll be as wanted as any bm for vana, tt, w/e. However, there are only a few high aps barbs that have the gear to the things only a barb can pull/tank. Imo most of those aps barbs are just furry bms with a hp buff. Anyway, it's personal if you want or don't want to go fist/claws on barb endgame. Aps barb sure is wanted and considered usefull like any other aps toon (maybe more cause barb has 2 really wanted buffs). However, you're not really a tank class anymore. (unless you become one of those rare 4/5 aps 20k+ hp barbs that can do both ofc)
  • Congenial - Heavens Tear
    Congenial - Heavens Tear Posts: 34 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    your use of the word fortnight in a game forum is also hawt

    I fail to understand why. b:surrender Is this some sort of male lingo that a chick barb like me can't understand? Yeah, I'm a female barb. Kinda large shoes to fill.

    But moving on. I am finally starting to see the light here, after reading and re-reading the threads. Basically, a barb is the main tank until a lot later, when -int gear is available which is around 90+. Until then, it's fine to play a barb! Which is great news because for some strange reason, I don't really think I'm able to get my barb to a level beyond 80 (stares at unwanted veno who fails to get into any FF because of APS, yet again, and a bunch of other reasons).

    However, I'm really glad that I now understand that pros and cons of a barb - basically nothing severe initially if played right, and just slows down at 90 plus when APS becomes a stronger and more pertinent issue among players.

    I guess I can start panicking IF I do somehow hit 90. IF.
    Barbs played right are like celebrities, you are welcome in every party - Fistol (Raging Tide)
    You're a fantastic barb, and I'd go anywhere with you - Merria (Heavens Tear)

    I'm a chick barb, and I'm proud of it. b:pleased
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY


    Sure a 5 aps sin can hold aggro against a 5 aps barb but then again, they can also hold aggro from a BM. Are you saying 5 aps BMs "suck for tanking?"

    I CAN hold aggro from a BM, quite easily. Poison fang makes up for the loss of fist mastery, hell if there's a demon veno in the squad (or is it sage? whichever reduces targets wood defense) I easily do more damage than a BM.

    because 50% = 75% now?

    the only way a barb should hold aggro on an equaly refined bm (same weapon buffs rings etc) assumeing both are CCing for crit and the bm is CCing DBB is if the bm repeatedly fails at GS procs

    Even the barb that innitaly did the math on clawbarian vs fist bm stated that barbs only out DD bm's self buffed with no CC's taken into account.

    for example lets assume a barb and bm both have exactly 1000 weapon damage takeign rings weapons etc into account and coth have 300 str with all gear on and neither have a jones on base crit for both will be 20% (bm gains 1% from mastery ignoreing barb buff crit due to crit CC on both classes)

    BM: ((1000 x ((300/150)+.75+1.35(.8)+5+.3)) x (5x(1+.21+.15)))(15-.3-.6/18)= (1000x9.13)(6.8))(14.7/18.6) = 49066.39 dps

    Barb: ((1000 x ((300/150)+.5+5+.3)) x (5x(1.186+.2))(14.6/18) = ((1000 x 7.8)(6.93))(14.6/18) = 43842.8 dps

    yup barbs totaly out DD bm's even counting the cast times on bm skills /sarcasm

    that said the damage is close enough that there willl be aggro bounce on the bm's 3 second spark imune
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Zaibeast - Archosaur
    Zaibeast - Archosaur Posts: 105 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY


    Sure a 5 aps sin can hold aggro against a 5 aps barb but then again, they can also hold aggro from a BM. Are you saying 5 aps BMs "suck for tanking?"

    I CAN hold aggro from a BM, quite easily. Poison fang makes up for the loss of fist mastery, hell if there's a demon veno in the squad (or is it sage? whichever reduces targets wood defense) I easily do more damage than a BM.


    LOL someone's very critical about my choice of words. I apologize, I probably should have explained myself a bit clearer when I said "suck for tanking". I was referring to the part where barbs CANNOT hold aggro from an equally geared BM or a SIN for that matter. Poison Fang DOES NOT make up for fist/dagger masteries that BMs or SINs have. The only way for a barb to hold aggro is if that barb had BETTER refines or the other DDs have less APS/refines. Or, another way is if the barb had a couple demon sparks headstart but even then, a sin dealing 2-3x more damage is sure to catch up on DDing.

    I've ran with numerous 5aps +10 lunar/TT100 fist barbs with my sin. I still deal AT LEAST x2 more damage. On top of critting up the *** with power dash for 8 seconds, the natural high crit rates sins have, wolf emblem to deal more damage on crits, and the fact that sins have infinite chi and put up a spark macro in a matter of seconds. So yup, barbs DEFINITELY (sarcasm incase you took this sentence seriously) hold aggro. b:laugh
  • reaperforlife
    reaperforlife Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Poor Tigey Wigey! Crack your knuckles all you want... I'm not intimidated in the least and I can return fire. YOU may be on a server where barbs are still gods. Barbs on my server suck! Aps barbs have **** for HP, still can't tank, and still have awful damage. I'm the one stuck saving their pathetic bums whether it's on my veno or my cleric. I have not seen a barb tank for squat if a bm or a sin is in the squad. I'm sick of it. I don't care what you think of my opinion about tanking barbs vs aps. I made it based off of what I see in my server. If you are going to educate some morons, educate the barbs who rolled a fail bm with tiger stripes. I have played long enough (3yrs) to know good players when I see them. I'll educate your moronic bum.

    lol hows this you come to my/en and prove that to me. i have been a barb there since beta... nobody not even NeONEO took agro from me or any of the fail 5aps bms aka Twizted etc.. Clink barly took agro from me with devil spark and he has g16 bow+12 and he didn't keep it for more then 2 secs so if you wanna talk **** about werebeasts aka barbs here.. only ppl you are talken sht about are noobs any pro barb can keep agro and outtank any class in pw without them holding back at all.. i was killing 99 bms when i was 81 like butter learn how to play and time your skills/skill cancle/ tort god you never lose vig never lose agro so stop whinning and meet some none fail playersb:kissb:bye must b richy oracle noobs who don't know thier classes lool c a lot of them here like 70% of the population have already killed a lvl 85+ on my 60 seeker
  • Ramesha - Heavens Tear
    Ramesha - Heavens Tear Posts: 41 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    barbs are awesome thats all i need to say.
  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    LOL someone's very critical about my choice of words. I apologize, I probably should have explained myself a bit clearer when I said "suck for tanking". I was referring to the part where barbs CANNOT hold aggro from an equally geared BM or a SIN for that matter. Poison Fang DOES NOT make up for fist/dagger masteries that BMs or SINs have. The only way for a barb to hold aggro is if that barb had BETTER refines or the other DDs have less APS/refines. Or, another way is if the barb had a couple demon sparks headstart but even then, a sin dealing 2-3x more damage is sure to catch up on DDing.

    I've ran with numerous 5aps +10 lunar/TT100 fist barbs with my sin. I still deal AT LEAST x2 more damage. On top of critting up the *** with power dash for 8 seconds, the natural high crit rates sins have, wolf emblem to deal more damage on crits, and the fact that sins have infinite chi and put up a spark macro in a matter of seconds. So yup, barbs DEFINITELY (sarcasm incase you took this sentence seriously) hold aggro. b:laugh
    Bull****.


    Yes, a sin does more damage. I fail to see how that is relevant. A sin also does more damage than a BM. This is nothing new. Sins out damage everything. I feel like I need to say this three times to get it through your thick skull. Sins out damage everything. 4 times just to be sure.


    And really, do you have any proof? Any evidence? I have run instances on a 5 aps barb AND a 5 aps BM. Both using the same weapon. And the damage difference is not noticeable at all. I seriously turned on damage log at the bosses, took SSes and compared the too. There was virtually no difference.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."