Fixing APS fixes Sins
angellicdeity
Posts: 641 Arc User
I think if sins had no APS the class would be better balanced.
I think its just a bit rediculous how a 5 APS sin can 2 spark in stealth then kill a full rank 9 heavy armor class in less than 2 seconds.
I think its just a bit rediculous how a 5 APS sin can 2 spark in stealth then kill a full rank 9 heavy armor class in less than 2 seconds.
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Didn't you hear? the devs made these fishy characters for the lols and made them OP on purpose.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Kantorek: we hope to see the economy in PWI come back "down to earth" if you will."
*One week later*
"Frankieraye: Lucky Corals and Platinum Charms are going to be in the Boutique indefinitely."
*few months later, PWI puts rank8/9 into the CS insanely cheap, raising gold 1mill+*0 -
angellicdeity wrote: »I think if sins had no APS the class would be better balanced.
I think its just a bit rediculous how a 5 APS sin can 2 spark in stealth then kill a full rank 9 heavy armor class in less than 2 seconds.
Technically if sins had NO aps they wouldnt be able to attack ...
Just like any other class b:bye0 -
You have to keep this issue going.
From the China website and forums I know they have a new topic every day on how sins are overpowered and need nerfs badly.
If the Devs only cared about the China version then sins would've been nerfed with the QQ that is 2-10x more prevelant than here.
So the answer is: the International version is pressing the overpowered-ness of sins so they can make money from people rerolling a new class.
You must force the international version to admit sins need changes before you'll see it done.0 -
While I agree sins are in need of the "fixing" I don't think APS will balance them. It's their cheap chi and stealth that people are complaining about. I mean sure their 5 aps helps them farm, but many other classes can get 5 aps also. So they do more dps at 5 aps; that's not unusual, considering they are meant to be more DPSy and more squishy than others like BMs. So no, I disagree- nerfing APS will not "fix" sins.
5 aps is indeed another issue that is breaking the game but nerfing one will not fix the other in this case.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ಥ_ಥ MOAR.
SkyKoC - How long is yours?0 -
Aesthor - Heavens Tear wrote: »While I agree sins are in need of the "fixing" I don't think APS will balance them. It's their cheap chi and stealth that people are complaining about. I mean sure their 5 aps helps them farm, but many other classes can get 5 aps also. So they do more dps at 5 aps; that's not unusual, considering they are meant to be more DPSy and more squishy than others like BMs. So no, I disagree- nerfing APS will not "fix" sins.
5 aps is indeed another issue that is breaking the game but nerfing one will not fix the other in this case.
You dont realize just how overpowered 5 APS is in PvP.
If you deal 1K damage every hit thats 5K damage a second (as much as a rank 8 wizard hits uncritted per spell which takes longer).
If you crit 2K~3K damage thats potentially 5K-15K damage a second (much more than any other class can hit in PvP).
If you 2 spark you can hit anywhere from 1.5~4K reliably. thats 7.5K~20K damage in PvP alone.
Furthermore since you hit soo fast the game mechanics dont even give you time to tick your charm.
Yeah.... APS and sins arent overpowered....
Every other class needs 3+ seconds to deal that sort of damage.0 -
this again b:surrender
o and 2spark won't get them to 5 aps b:bye[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
*Lollipop Chainsaw Addict sinds 05-2012*0 -
No, I do realize how OP 5 aps is in PVP. I'm an archer, in case you can't tell. But nerfing 5 aps won't fix the sin problem in PvP. It will dampen it a little, but still nothing is stopping them from stealthing and chain-CCing you when your back is turned is there? Didn't think so. And if they fail to kill you, it's not their APS that gives them EXTRA SPARKS as they fade away to reset their cooldowns.angellicdeity wrote: »You dont realize just how overpowered 5 APS is in PvP.
If you deal 1K damage every hit thats 5K damage a second (as much as a rank 8 wizard hits uncritted per spell which takes longer).
If you crit 2K~3K damage thats potentially 5K-15K damage a second (much more than any other class can hit in PvP).
If you 2 spark you can hit anywhere from 1.5~4K reliably. thats 7.5K~20K damage in PvP alone.
Furthermore since you hit soo fast the game mechanics dont even give you time to tick your charm.
Yeah.... APS and sins arent overpowered....
Every other class needs 3+ seconds to deal that sort of damage.
And reading the damn post before you give your cheeky lip. I didn't say 5 aps sins weren't overpowered. Try reading again.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ಥ_ಥ MOAR.
SkyKoC - How long is yours?0 -
5aps is broken, mage classes can 1 shot, but whats the point if it takes 5 seconds to cast the skill?0
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just delete all sins, don't reimburse any of the f.k'ers
problem solved; game balanced[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear wrote: »just delete all sins, don't reimburse any of the f.k'ers
problem solved; game balanced
Feisty b:kiss [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Bodyguard for Secret Passage at your service, now accepting daily installments of just 2.5m for your leisure.0 -
your pixels mean so much to me[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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As a Sin, I can honestly say that fixing 5 APS won't fix Sins. The other day, in TW, I dropped, stealthed, into the center of three Cata barbs attacking our crystal. Their support had been killed (some by me), and I didn't see any other nuisances around to interrupt--I popped my buffs and some wood damage apo, hit demon spark, and went to town. I killed all three of them before Demon spark wore. Only one of them had been purged (I nearly killed myself on one of their Brambles, actually.)
I'm 3.33 APS.
Granted, none of them were of the super godly 30k HP Barb variety. And they didn't exactly react rationally when they could have AD'd/Invoked/etc. to avoid my barrage. But they did all die in the span of about 12 seconds. If I were properly geared, and at 5 APS, they probably would have all dropped in about 8 seconds total.
As much as I hate to admit it, because I love my Sin, Assassins need fixing, but nerfing 5 aps isn't it. An adjustment to the damage modifier they receive from DEX and limitations on the use of stealth are probably the best bet you have without ruining the class.0 -
Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear wrote: »your pixels mean so much to me
You failed to "get" the point. Your raging about a broken class WILL cause you hair loss.
On topic: Obsessing about "fixed APS" will do you guys no good, just roll a damn 'sin already. You know you want to.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Bodyguard for Secret Passage at your service, now accepting daily installments of just 2.5m for your leisure.0 -
Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear wrote: »just delete all sins, don't reimburse any of the f.k'ers
problem solved; game balanced
i know you love me really.. no need to hide it just let it all out b:kiss0 -
Firefeng - Dreamweaver wrote: »As a Sin, I can honestly say that fixing 5 APS won't fix Sins. The other day, in TW, I dropped, stealthed, into the center of three Cata barbs attacking our crystal. Their support had been killed (some by me), and I didn't see any other nuisances around to interrupt--I popped my buffs and some wood damage apo, hit demon spark, and went to town. I killed all three of them before Demon spark wore. Only one of them had been purged (I nearly killed myself on one of their Brambles, actually.)
I'm 3.33 APS.
Granted, none of them were of the super godly 30k HP Barb variety. And they didn't exactly react rationally when they could have AD'd/Invoked/etc. to avoid my barrage. But they did all die in the span of about 12 seconds. If I were properly geared, and at 5 APS, they probably would have all dropped in about 8 seconds total.
As much as I hate to admit it, because I love my Sin, Assassins need fixing, but nerfing 5 aps isn't it. An adjustment to the damage modifier they receive from DEX and limitations on the use of stealth are probably the best bet you have without ruining the class.
My point exactly.
I'm LONG over trying to "fix" sins but back when I still cared I believed the necessary fixes were to make chi not so easily available (seriously, force stealth should DRAIN chi, not GIVE you chi) and implement skills for a limited number of classes that can counter stealth, with a long enough cooldown to balance against the sins' (variations could include vision for a few seconds on a long cooldown or a reveal-all in a small radius and shorter cooldown. Additionally I believed archers, psychics, and blademasters should have the anti-stealth skills though Earthguard didn't exist at the time so that is up in the air).[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ಥ_ಥ MOAR.
SkyKoC - How long is yours?0 -
Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear wrote: »just delete all sins, don't reimburse any of the f.k'ers
problem solved; game balanced
Although this would never happen, I don't see how deleting sins will change anything. Because the game will go back to the way it was once again, QQing about OP 5aps BMs, then back to OP wizzies etc.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]I know what your thinking.0 -
Abstractive - Archosaur wrote: »You failed to "get" the point. Your raging about a broken class WILL cause you hair loss.
last i checked your the one who started quoting what i typed, so.. do you have a need for attention all the time or are you just stupidResMePls - Heavens Tear wrote: »Although this would never happen, I don't see how deleting sins will change anything. Because the game will go back to the way it was once again, QQing about OP 5aps BMs, then back to OP wizzies etc.
BM's with skill can kill Wizzies
Wizzies with skill can kill BM's
Sin's with no skill can kill anything
^[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Abstractive - Archosaur wrote: »You failed to "get" the point. Your raging about a broken class WILL cause you hair loss.
On topic: Obsessing about "fixed APS" will do you guys no good, just roll a damn 'sin already. You know you want to.
They shouldn't have to in order to enjoy the game. Unfortunately, they're trying to treat one of the symptoms of poor design, completely inept to the fact that doing so will further alienate them; instance squads that look for a few high APS people and fill in the rest of the slots with whatever will now exclusively run with 1 cleric and 5 people at the new aps cap. A 3.33 APS Sin will still grossly outdamage a 3.33 APS BM/Barb/etc.
Capping Sins at 4.0 APS would help the PVE aspect a little (they'd still outdamage most everyone else), but wouldn't affect PVP in the least, considering I can faceroll most people to death at 2.86 APS (after Windshield). Knocking a second off the duration of each of Sin's controlling skills would help.
Really, though, even before anyone got high level, 5 APS Sins, you could tell they were built for PVP just by looking at their skills. They were made to stunlock people. And severely nerfing their stealth would make them almost wholly ineffectual at PVP (they're already less useful than most any other class you can think of in TW...take away their ability to stealth and they're effectively PK count fodder for Archers, Psychics, and Wizzies under most mass PVP circumstances).Sin's with no skill can kill anything but usually die to other Sins or classes that are playing with half a brain, first.
Fixed. A brainless Sin is easier to kill than you think, and "skill" is far less important than gear.0 -
ResMePls - Heavens Tear wrote: »Although this would never happen, I don't see how deleting sins will change anything. Because the game will go back to the way it was once again, QQing about OP 5aps BMs, then back to OP wizzies etc.
BMs were never "OP" until 5 aps and by then the sins came along already LOL. I felt sorry for all my BM friends back in the day when they couldn't tank well enough to tank and couldn't dps well enough to dps. The only people who had a harder time getting parties were wizards. Venos were the QQ class back then, with their bleed-tick nixes killing every non-heavy out there. Incidentally now no one QQs about that anymore even though the bleed hasn't been changed, simply because everyone's gear as scaled past the effectiveness of nixes and no one bothers to QQ about stuff that isn't killing them, nor are people complaining about hercs soloing instances because 5-aps is now the target of everyone's envy. And that's what's driving all this QQ; very few of you actually care about balance. Most of you are just JEALOUS. Jealous because you can't stand that ONE class that keeps killing you, and jealous because you're being outfarmed. That's understandable; really it is, but think about it this way: PWE has the same personality as you. They want the money, and they don't want to work harder, which is why none of this is going to be fixed.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ಥ_ಥ MOAR.
SkyKoC - How long is yours?0 -
False.0
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Firefeng - Dreamweaver wrote: »They shouldn't have to in order to enjoy the game. Unfortunately, they're trying to treat one of the symptoms of poor design, completely inept to the fact that doing so will further alienate them; instance squads that look for a few high APS people and fill in the rest of the slots with whatever will now exclusively run with 1 cleric and 5 people at the new aps cap. A 3.33 APS Sin will still grossly outdamage a 3.33 APS BM/Barb/etc.
Capping Sins at 4.0 APS would help the PVE aspect a little (they'd still outdamage most everyone else), but wouldn't affect PVP in the least, considering I can faceroll most people to death at 2.86 APS (after Windshield). Knocking a second off the duration of each of Sin's controlling skills would help.
Really, though, even before anyone got high level, 5 APS Sins, you could tell they were built for PVP just by looking at their skills. They were made to stunlock people. And severely nerfing their stealth would make them almost wholly ineffectual at PVP (they're already less useful than most any other class you can think of in TW...take away their ability to stealth and they're effectively PK count fodder for Archers, Psychics, and Wizzies under most mass PVP circumstances).
Fixed. A brainless Sin is easier to kill than you think.
I wholeheartedly agree with you, although our nice community's "once in a while" brainstorming sessions (which, I must say, are great, because I've seen some terrific ideas) are rendered useless if they can't reach the ears of PW-CN devs. I'd love not having to be called "oh noez, stupit OP fish QQ" and hated on by everybody, I really would. It's just not gonna happen.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Bodyguard for Secret Passage at your service, now accepting daily installments of just 2.5m for your leisure.0 -
Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear wrote: »just delete all sins, don't reimburse any of the f.k'ers
problem solved; game balanced
With a cliche mindset such as this, I just had to pick on you.
I bet you tried your best to leave a reasonable, polite and constructive reply.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Bodyguard for Secret Passage at your service, now accepting daily installments of just 2.5m for your leisure.0 -
It's more than aps that makes sins unbalanced.
It's also a ridiculously overpowered stealth system, as well as their incredibly long stun locks.
You nerf aps and sins will just go full R9 and have 150 attack levels, and do you really think anyone but an endgame psy will be able to survive being attacked for 15 seconds by someone with 150 ATK levels?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."0 -
Abstractive - Archosaur wrote: »With a cliche mindset such as this, I just had to pick on you.
pick on me, haha kid please... who do you think you are?
you quoted me on an internet forum and you think your picking on me?
can you do anything right or are you only good for necroing topics for post count bumps[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear wrote: »you quoted me on an internet forum and you think your picking on me?
That's because you do such a good job of making yourself out to be a fool that merely quoting you can be likened to picking on you.0 -
Firefeng - Dreamweaver wrote: »That's because you do such a good job of making yourself out to be a fool that merely quoting you can be likened to picking on you.
mm making myself out to be the fool ehh, you care too much[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear wrote: »mm making myself out to be the fool ehh, you care too much
You'd be surprised how little emotional investment it requires to make a simple observation. Mostly because I doubt your ability to make a simple observation without a world-shattering paradigm shift of your feeble intellect.0 -
Firefeng - Dreamweaver wrote: »You'd be surprised how little emotional investment it requires to make a simple observation. Mostly because I doubt your ability to make a simple observation without a world-shattering paradigm shift of your feeble intellect.
using big words is it now?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear wrote: »using big words is it now?
Big words on an internet forums lowers your opponent's defense and boosts your accuracy. Once you've done that you're able to use a super awesome forum attack and finish them off, sending them into the deepest fathoms of forum hell. Also, you don't get to eat cupcakes there. It really sucks0 -
mmm i feel so defeated right now >.>
i think im going to cry in a corner and eat chocolate sprinkles b:chuckle[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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