Psy and delta

glaesum

How psy on our server find party for delta?
One group of ppl demand only wizzy-archer tandem.
Another say glacial makes lags for their, and as result psy has "only 2 normal aoe", + aqua cannon, and 79 frontal (dont count 2 spark red).
So it makes serious problem for psy finds party.
And it's only 1st stage, additional for psy.. there's another - "majority" (as said) full runs failed - dc, or deaths.
BH party make only 2 wave.. Guild in majority has only 2nd sage/demon culti, and dont make full delta.

So i want receive advice, what am I to do?
Some advices ive received already (as stop play as psy and play as cler/wizzy). For me it's unacceptable. I want play as psy and learn for psy 100 skills.

And sorry for bad english, im not english native.

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide

Don't roll fish?

Roll fish and prepare for the consequences

Borsuc - Raging Tide

lol I would take a psy over an archer any day, I vastly prefer them, and I used to do deltas regularly... not playing much anymore though.

Kiki - Raging Tide

i've been in a delta with 2psys and a wizzy for dd and we did a full run
people are just racist against fishies
psys have a ton of aoes and isnt that a great point to have in a delta?

people just need to stop getting their panties in a bunch

Lana - Raging Tide

a good Psy can replace a wiz in delta any day, or you could just take the veno spot.
Dont know what problems these people had with you, but psy totally rocks in delta b:pleased

TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide

Kiki - Raging Tide wrote: »

i've been in a delta with 2psys and a wizzy for dd and we did a full run
people are just racist against fishies
psys have a ton of aoes and isnt that a great point to have in a delta?

people just need to stop getting their panties in a bunch

Agreed.

Lana - Raging Tide wrote: »

a good Psy can replace a wiz in delta any day
b:pleased

Disagreed .

Borsuc - Raging Tide

TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide wrote: »

Disagreed .

Why?

If I were to rate these classes in delta, it would look like this:

psy > wiz > archer

psy has a great AOE stun, more DPS than wiz, less survivability for tanking hits (no earth barrier)... but has psychic will, and again did I mention stuns??? oh yeah also expel + sage bubble of life as extra immunity, if it's a sage psy; most mobs should be dead by then.

archer well... let's just say, he has no tricks apart from BoA, no stun (wiz have MS and demon wiz also emberstorm for quick half-stun burst in emergencies) and... they demand mana lvl2 aura! b:laugh

TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide

As a bm or maybe just for me , it's the least annoying with a good wiz compared to how it is with a good psy or archer .

Psys do lots & lots of aoe dmg & pull aggro as well but they are so squishi that if they don't react really fast they're gonna die almost instantly . Wiz can take more dmg and has an instant get away skill . I do plenty of delta with psys but if that psy manages to get aggro then it's really hell for me to know that he/she can die in 4-5 seconds if their don't expel,psy will/AD/switch to white voodo real fast .

Ambition - Raging Tide

Why do you need a stun from a Psy if you have a BM.

Any decent BM will have the mobs stunned and then HF'd

The majority of mobs should be dead after the duration of HF.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

lol fish in delta.


Archers are better than psys. Archer with demon BoA will have the highest DPS in delta hands down.


Can a psy be good in delta? Yes

Is a psy a better than a good archer or mage? No.

glaesum

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

lol fish in delta.


Archers are better than psys. Archer with demon BoA will have the highest DPS in delta hands down.


Can a psy be good in delta? Yes

Is a psy a better than a good archer or mage? No.

I vnt any intention to discuss who better in delta.
But how we(psy) should make our chrono culti?
Answer on this question.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Make friends who are willing to take a psy even though someone else could do the job better.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Ambition - Raging Tide wrote: »

Why do you need a stun from a Psy if you have a BM.

Any decent BM will have the mobs stunned and then HF'd

The majority of mobs should be dead after the duration of HF.

Sorry but you can't be serious that mobs will be dead by the time HF ends... that leaves what, increased life mobs? I seriously doubt each incoming group of mobs takes ~15 secs to clear and then you wait a min for next group to come.

Unless you're talking about wave 1... lol

Not even with Lucifer could we drop mobs so fast, and almost failed on wave 9.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

lol fish in delta.


Archers are better than psys. Archer with demon BoA will have the highest DPS in delta hands down.


Can a psy be good in delta? Yes

Is a psy a better than a good archer or mage? No.

You don't really know what you're talking about. Not only you don't do proper theory (and see why psys have highest DPS in delta, if played properly of course), but I guess you don't have much experience with decent psys.

I lose aggro to decent psys with less refined TT99 weapons and no +atk shards in their armor. Like, what do you expect me to do in DB to boost up my DPS? Smash my keyboard hoping for more damage? All I do is watch out for aggro to know if I should expel or drop DB, since DB is a pretty "goes by itself" spell.

Oh, most psys get aggro and die? For one, it means they have great DPS. For two, it means they also suck. You know, doesn't take a genius to figure out the much larger population of psys compared to wiz -- and that means, more noobs also.

Archers are BY FAR the worst in delta. Not least because also of damage reduction from being too close in BoA. Compared to a wiz, they are only better at taking out flying mobs in wave 8 and generally archer mobs in other waves... but guess what, a psy can do that much better.

Squads with a sin drop mobs faster than venos simply because of the amp that works for the REAL DDs in there.

It is also worth to note that it is the DDs in the squad who actually appreciate what a good delta squad is, because they are the first to die, or to get aggro, if the rest of the squad fails in skill... (of course there's also barbs that die when pulling, but that's a different story). Some people think I'm too vocal in delta runs because I tell them when to stun and what to do, how to take aggro and know when to roar and such, but they don't realize I know best when that should be done and how, since I am the punching bag.

With that in mind, and a proper squad that stunlocks and doesn't just spam stuns whenever, having a psy is invaluable. By far the smoothest runs are with a psy even if that psy has worse gear and less DPS than me (hey I'm used to being the punching bag anyways).

I've had mixtures of bad barb but good BMs, and vice versa, and really only problem is when BOTH are bad, you know you aren't going to make it for a full run... but with a good psy in squad? Makes everything SO much easier.


Now before you think this isn't your experience, remember I can count the "decent psys" I am talking about on one hand (only 1 is a bit OP, and only one has almost same gear as me, rest are worse), so if your run failed with that random psy that doesn't speak english also? Tough luck blame the player.

There's also that soul of vengeance psys use to help barbs keep aggro and build it... guess what you don't even need veno for bramble AND the tank can use alpha male without overwriting bramble.

2 fish ppl I'd run with ALWAYS are Asheera (sin) and Shamoke (psy). Even if the rest of the squad fails, it's just SO much easier with either. And as the punchbag in 90% of the cases, I can appreciate just how important this is.

/end long commentary


EDIT: oh and btw learn to count seconds, counting and estimating when that stun will go off or when expel is about to end is INVALUABLE as a DD.

NightRage - Raging Tide

Lol fish.

Borsuc you're dumb lol. Yulk called, he wants his best friend back.

Spend thousands on any class and you too can get into delta!

Meanwhile, ignore Borsuc when he says archers are the worst class for Delta lmfao.

Nadis - Sanctuary

Borsoc, just cuz someone takes aggro it doesnt mean their DPS is higher. Take clerics for example, their temepst has the most aggro stealing effect does that mean they hit harder the bids and BT? Psy works the same way, their skills has so much "hate" in them so they grab aggro.

Russiee - Raging Tide

Borsuc you're so bad. Archers have the worst DPS? You obviously have never Delta'd with an Archer who has Demon BoA. Climb out of your rock and stop QQ'ing.

Shamoke - Raging Tide

Archers feel so threatened. Relax, you still will get taken to Delta even if people realize psychics are actually good and not handicapped in there. I don't think psychics are superior to archer or wizard. I've ran full deltas with squads not having a wizard or an archer, but had one of them at least. Everything is easy with Jones Blessings. With Borsuc I think it's just preference for psychics over archers. Just like some bms like deadbryan fists full waves instead of using axe aoes.b:pleased

Epros - Raging Tide

Shamoke - Raging Tide wrote: »

Just like some bms like deadbryan fists full waves instead of using axe aoes.b:pleased

awwwwww snappppppp!

/thread

thats all

Nadis - Sanctuary

Shamoke - Raging Tide wrote: »

Just like some bms like deadbryan fists full waves instead of using axe aoes.b:pleased

Goto love Shamoke. b:chuckle

Shamoke - Raging Tide

I was merely making a point with preferences.

Ambition - Raging Tide

Sorry you can't be serious. A sin doing a better job than venos do? First off, venos can gather beans faster than a sin can. They also have parasitic nova which is a seal and an immobilize. Next, they have myriad rainbow that AoE debuffs. Among these debuffs are armor and magic breaks which is far more useful than a gimp HF.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

lol all the time


"Sin looking for delta! I can do the venos job better than veno!"

No you can't, if you could then it would be called the sin's job and not the veno's job.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Ambition - Raging Tide wrote: »

A sin doing a better job than venos do? First off, venos can gather beans faster than a sin can.

Wow this is interesting, how many good squads don't finish digging before 3rd wave? If you don't finish digging and running by 3rd wave, even with no veno or sin in squad, the squad fails.

Ambition - Raging Tide wrote: »

They also have parasitic nova which is a seal and an immobilize.

Absolutely it's THE only thing they are useful for. Bramble almost worthless if a psy is in squad, and gets overriden by alpha male.

Nova is awesome, especially because it works on stun immune mobs (archer mobs, magic mobs, and the other low HP mobs) in delta... and very useful on wave 3, but nothing special after that.

You see, it does about the same thing as the sin's amp, except that damage will be spread over a wider timeframe, which is worse (who prefers DoTs over burst damage? I certainly don't!). What happens with Nova is that I can keep DDing more, and don't have to run around the mobs or get killed.

However, what happens with amps in general is that they amplify damage when I am immune or mobs are stunned, or barb has aggro (the initial burst spike with HF)... which enables me to deal more damage. If HF has 6 sec duration, it's best to DD in that timeframe. Nova doesn't help with that, it instead enables me to DD after those 6 secs are up (and stun plus expel goes off).

Let's see (from a wizard's perspective and without counting psys, which you'll realize why they are so good to have in squad):

HF->about 3 sec of DD->stun->6 sec DD->expel->10 sec DD->stun ->6 sec DD

That's plenty of time to kill the non-increased life mobs, don't you think? With a psy, the stun can be extended further.

Now, given that the time I can DD is already plentiful, you can imagine why I'd rather pick extra amp, than a longer "I can DD" duration -- who cares if I can DD more (if Nova is chained to the above) if using an amp while they are stunned/I am immune gets rid of them faster?

Burst damage > DoTs, as the analogy goes. Most important is heavy DD during the initial spike with HF.

Ambition - Raging Tide wrote: »

Next, they have myriad rainbow that AoE debuffs. Among these debuffs are armor and magic breaks which is far more useful than a gimp HF.

Gimp HF, sure. For sage sins, that's 50% extra damage ON TOP of HF (it stacks). For demon sins the duration is longer (couples well with demon HF).

Oh wow remember those warsouls with +50 attack levels? Yeah they are so gimped, insignificant even. 50% extra damage is nothing. Watching mobs come to 1/4 HP from 1/2 in the same timeframe (the initial spike), actually more than that because of Earthen Rift + Bramble Rage (in all those debuffs/amps) is so insignificant I guess.

Russiee - Raging Tide

Every successful reflection will cost the damage taker's Mana
by 0.4% of the caster's Soulforce.

Because Barbarians don't need Mana to cast skills and they constantly keep an eye on their mana pool, whilst concentrating on everything else.

So far, your argument is based on Sage Psys with OP gear and all maxed out sage skills being better than a regular Veno.

No **** Sherlock. But who actually has all of that? I found that Barbs keep agro better without Alpha Male'ing, but rather simply keeping Bramble on.

If we are talking about OP gear and OP skills, Take a Demon Veno with Demon Nova. Ohaidere, that's like a gimped HF. b:bye Sins

You're also starting to sound like Veritas_ who talks out of his *** and believes he knows what he is doing. Sins APS is capped at 2.86 guys! Believe me I know! I've cash shopped enough to know! Veritas was arguing that Sins > Archers in delta, and how he can outdps me on multiple mobs. I'm sure 2 crappy skills can out DPS a constant barrage.

I also find Psys die easier when trying to keep the boss from entering the Zhen. Ohaidere Hercs, how are you doin'?

HF->about 3 sec of DD->stun->6 sec DD->expel->10 sec DD->stun ->6 sec DD

Go kill Wave 9 mobs with Increased Life and Increased Resistance to Magic in that time without an Archer. Go go go!!

Your argument is based on a Psy being Sage with all skills and OP gear, whilst Venos don't get anything apparantly. This seems like a legit and totally unbiased viewpoint. Sins > Venos? Lawl. I want to see a Sin keep a boss at bay without dieing. Only thing for it, is to spam the **** out of HP food, Apo, Genie Skills, charm and pray for the best.

Shamoke - Raging Tide

I don't think it's a matter of "Class A is better than Class B." Delta is a squad instance. If the squad works well together they'll do well.Some people work better with psychic/sin than with archer/veno. For me I like wiz/psy/veno and of course the barb, bm, cleric. With the that combination most mobs get stunned/sealed/slowed/immobilized the whole time and cant move or hit me enough for my low pdef and -defense level to be exposed.

One advantage we psychics have over archers, we can pull aggro and keep mobs packed around DB. Archers pull aggro back to them and mobs get scattered around and don't get hit in range of axe aoes and things. It's also easier for barbs to keep the mobs grouped. They don't have to worry about pulling everything into god's eye. Just get it in range of DB and a psychic can reach everything from that range too. A psychic is even good at dealing with range mobs. On most cases, I kill the majority of range mobs by the time HF is over, cuz I can aim my Tide Spirit and Red tide on the lower hp rangers. Also, psychics can empower vigor. Sunder heals more, hp food heals more, charm ticks faster. Sage SOV also helps on the aggro department. I ran a full delta with a barb that doesn't have alpha male. SOV helped him run by mobs and prevent the back range mobs from taking aggro heal on cleric. I'm sure archers have their advantages over psychics, I just don't know them because I don't play that class. I just thought I'd enlighten you guys on the good psychics can do.

As for wizards, I'm completely comfortable running a delta having an archer and no wizard. But wizard is a really solid class for delta, so I don't know what I have better than a similarly geared wizard. I have mob control, but wizards take most aggro in DB majority of the time and I usually play mob control for them anyway. With a wizard with a less than +7 weapon, I take more aggro and run around in circles. I do fine, though. Especially with def aura up. Well timed stuns and psychic will can keep any psychic alive. If I'm taking a lot of damage I can slow/immobilize the mobs and take two steps away from melee range until the bm roars or I can stun them myself or use psychic will.

A well played psychic is not a handicap to a delta squad and is a viable DD.

Shamoke - Raging Tide

Russiee - Raging Tide wrote: »

Because Barbarians don't need Mana to cast skills and they constantly keep an eye on their mana pool, whilst concentrating on everything else.

So far, your argument is based on Sage Psys with OP gear and all maxed out sage skills being better than a regular Veno.

A majority of the sage psychics around has SoV. There's little demand for any psychic skills on our server so they're relatively cheap to get compared to other classes.

I'm a sage psychic and my gear is average at best (compared to other 100 psychics). Even without any sage or demon skills I'm 100% positive psychics are better for delta than venos.

TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide

Shamoke - Raging Tide wrote: »

Even without any sage or demon skills I'm 100% positive psychics are better for delta than venos.

This man speaks the truth .

Ambition - Raging Tide

I'd have to agree with Russiee on this one.

Lol, Borsuc you really are just speaking out of your ***. First off, how many sins are sage? Secondly, how many sage sins have sage subsea strike?

Eriion - Raging Tide

lol i really don't get all this ego battle. Every class can run delta pretty well as long as the player knows how to play. I've seen wizzies ( which usually are the best dds for delta ), that **** runs cause they couldn't control damage and kite mobs when necessary, so he keep dying over and over again leaving the squad on a big mess ( and don't come tell me that the barb/bm is always guilty when the wizard die, cause a wizard are suposed to know how to kite ).

But Borsuc, saying an archer is the worse class for delta, I'll have to disagree with u. As I said before to me all classes can do pretty well at delta. Yes arcanes have a bit advantage on DD cause the delta mobs have less mag defence than physical, but on the other hand archers can survive when they have aggro on them a lot better than wizzies/psys, so we don't need to kite as much as u guys, so we can keep the aoe sometimes longer than arcanes. I have saved a few wizards during delta by getting aggro to me while they were running around screaming like lil girls from the mobs b:chuckle

Also yeah, I have been on delta with psys and I really don't see a problem wth that, but at least on my experiences all this "Psy can get aggro, stun, slow, and be fine" is not 100% accurate. I've seem many many times the psy steal aggro and then drop dead cause they couldn't handle the hits ( u included Shamoke when we ran a delta 2 months ago.. if i remember well u died 2-3 times lol ). So I trust the bm a lot more for mass control.

About sins I can't say anything bad really.. I've done lots of deltas with sins and they rock at running quests, taking care of bosses while squad kill mobs, and also dding mobs. I agree Asheera used to be a pro delta sin ( now we lost him to FW QQ ), but many others not so well geared sins do pretty well also on deltas.

As I said, is just a matter of knowing how to play ur class. Plain and simple. b:bye

Prorandomalt - Raging Tide

Eriion - Raging Tide wrote: »

As I said, is just a matter of knowing how to play ur class. Plain and simple. b:bye

So that means you're incredibly bad in delta?

Eriion - Raging Tide

Prorandomalt - Raging Tide wrote: »

So that means you're incredibly bad in delta?

Dunno.. maybe. Never got any complain though, so probably not so bad lol. But before anything... who are u again? Fail troll is fail ijs b:chuckle