HH90 vs Lunar/TT99 for HA venos
Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary
Posts: 914 Arc User
So, I'm contemplating whether or not to get TT99/lunar armor for my veno.
Some things ive came across is that I've noticed my p def probably isnt going to raise that much from TT90-lunar/99, but my magic def will raise a little bit, due to changing one piece of my HA to arcane(TT99 AA boots).... But, let's consider all the refines are about the same (+6).... , I think I would lose around 500 hp, because, lunar doesnt give +vit adds, and arcane refines lower than heavy. I dont really want to lose too much hp, but the extra magic attack and p attack looks nice from the lunar/99 build. Any suggestions from a fellow HA veno would be greatly appreciated b:thanks
Some things ive came across is that I've noticed my p def probably isnt going to raise that much from TT90-lunar/99, but my magic def will raise a little bit, due to changing one piece of my HA to arcane(TT99 AA boots).... But, let's consider all the refines are about the same (+6).... , I think I would lose around 500 hp, because, lunar doesnt give +vit adds, and arcane refines lower than heavy. I dont really want to lose too much hp, but the extra magic attack and p attack looks nice from the lunar/99 build. Any suggestions from a fellow HA veno would be greatly appreciated b:thanks
>.<
Post edited by Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary on
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Can you post your current build via ecatomb? I've got ideas just don't know what you have right now.0
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I can post it via pwcalc, if thats ok, it's kinda crappy atm though b:surrender (embarrassed of the **** refines)
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=c85b764c6f271019
Also, some notes to take: I'll probably keep the sky demons pearl, if not ill change it for swindler's neck; also mogwai belt will be changed for oht belt soon, then TT99 AA belt or 4th oht map belt(which i would prefer.) Rings, will probably be changed out for oht magic rings soon also.
also if this matters in my build: Im demon.>.<0 -
In either situation I'd look to the legs..
If you go the way of lunar legs, you get the STR bonus that easily frees up the SDP to go to swindlers or cube neck. Then, when you get to 100 and can farm Nirvana, the G15 version gives 6-10 str plus -0.05 interval. On the other hand, the Lionheart legs give HP bonus, which isn't much in the way of helping with stats, but at the Nirvana G15 stage it not only gives the same STR bonus but gives interval and elemental+phys rez by 4% which is likely a really good deal, however, a bit more down the line. I will also point out that while the Warsoul Helm gives you more HP until like +9 or above, if you want more stats free to play with consider the G10 Forest's Wisdom (farmed out of Uni Forest, pretty easy) which not only refines the same as the G14 gold version from the Helm of Holy Punishment, but gives decent amount more STR. You would end up with, at +6, a couple hundred less HP though. Also, if you can, try to save for a better tome like from the Script of Fate or better. If you want more HP then at least you have the flexibility to add into VIT if you want it.0 -
lunar has slightly lower requirements and give more usable stat points and refines better that TT99, where TT99 give more HP and set bonuses. i went with a mix, TT99 sleves, pants and feet, lunar chest.
the chest's extra points make it easier to equip the other tt99 stuff. the chest give the most stat points of all the lunar stuff.
the tt99 legs i plan on nirvana-ing and the 2 remaining TT99 peices give a -.15 interval.
my current build:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=2036f8179a722fb6
as a nice little bonus, with an account stash stone and a little more investment, you have a pretty solid interval BM build, if you get inspired to make a BM. [which both me and janus did] which is pretty much the reason i wear the lunar cape instead of the TT90 cape, which just sits in my inventory doing nothing now. i'd say your first goal at the moment would be getting your hands on a script of fate. and keep checking the AH for stat rings.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Well, nirvana seems pretty far-fetched to me. I'll probably just use it for making money at lvl 100. I'd love to have at least a voidland's tome, but I have the magic tome, because most of my alts are magic classes. Anyways, how does this http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=f97d054d22ab78b2 look? I realize id have to reset a few dex points though... and note that i left the rings blank, cause in the end im not sure if i wanna stick with oht rings or use lunar rings.>.<0
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My current build:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=be8ae16dbdf5872d
95 gold lunar sucks because, the added bonuses on the gear are useless. It gives you str for example, but what's the point of str on gear you need to get extra str for to wear it in the first place. And it barely gives you any hp/vit bonuses at all. You get somewhat more refine bonus, but at the cost of not having any vit/hp bonus in the form of bonus stats. So basically you end up with less hp. Advantage of 95 gold lunar is the increased amount of mdef and pdef per armor. Especially on nirvana. But if you're not even thinking of nirvana, you don't have to consider getting lunar either in my opinion.
I've seen many HA veno's, too many at lvl 100+ and they are satisfied with tt90 armor because that way they can have more magic attack. But seriously, veno's attack are **** anyway. Our main job is to debuff, and in battle you want to get back from your job alive. Atleast that's my view on being HA.
wish i had money atm for more refines though and a nirvana magic sword though :P
I switch my nirvana arcane sleeves to tt99 HA sleeves whenever i dd in fox form or when i need more pdef.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Retsuko - Shifong
Karmapwi.com0 -
Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary wrote: »Well, nirvana seems pretty far-fetched to me. I'll probably just use it for making money at lvl 100. I'd love to have at least a voidland's tome, but I have the magic tome, because most of my alts are magic classes. Anyways, how does this http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=f97d054d22ab78b2 look? I realize id have to reset a few dex points though... and note that i left the rings blank, cause in the end im not sure if i wanna stick with oht rings or use lunar rings.
That looks good. For the rings, I will sing a similar tune, and suggest the COA ring, though if you go the route of SOF:C I guess it won't be as bad, though it'll certainly be a bit more expensive.
The reason behind that is:
COA ring build:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=cb1221fa84d45bda
SOF:C ring build:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=e923f84c9380ddaf
COA ring build gives you ~ 200 more HP, hilariously 6 more phys atk, and more mdef (with the possibility of gaining more), though the same MDR of 64%, and a bonus crit, as well as more dex, which is a good thing. At the same time, the SOF:C isn't going to give you either the vit/dex/crit but is going to give you something pretty essential since it looks like you have a fox build, which is accuracy. It also gives you, as mentioned, the same MDR at 64%. Ultimately it comes down to which you prefer. I presume if you have the coin/cash to ref the sword to +10, everything else to 6, and get the cube neck, the SOF:C being quite a bit more expensive won't be too big a deal.0 -
Shifong - Heavens Tear wrote: »My current build:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=be8ae16dbdf5872d
95 gold lunar sucks because, the added bonuses on the gear are useless.
thats incorrect
lunar requires 240 str and 52 dex
TT99 requires 250 str and 54 dex
which mean all of the 7~8 str and 2 dex can be used to equip the TT99. I think if your gonna spend the 50M to make a TT99 chest for the extra HP, your better off spending that on D orbs and refining the hell out of TT90 or even the legendary plate. 200hp isnt worth 50m.
Lunar physical rings are a total waste on a veno, especially since COA rings are about 1/3 of the price. the +50% accuracy is negligable compared to the 200% to 250% accuracy bonus from foxform. the COA ring also has both magic and physical attack, so no reason to change rings depending on how furry you are.
I just down see a reason to pick lunar might ring over a COA ring, unless you already have one.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Even though Lunarglade is grade 13, even with the 4 main pieces at +12, TT99 still grants 200 more HP. Lunarglade does grant an additional 90 physical attack though, whereas TT99 gives more interval. I don't think the 4 piece Lunarglade is worth it unless you are planning to Nirvana up the set. Unless you're really hurting for those stat requirements.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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a cheap alternate to tt99/Lunar would be Armor of Dark Porten World lvl req of Lunar and gives Str + HP it like a mix of Lunar + TT99
heres my build atm http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=9b09babdd5ecf9ed0 -
Well, while i would much prefer full TT99 HA, I might have to go with a mix of lunar/TT99 incase i dont upgrade my tome. TT99 HA looks so much better than lunar HA, but if i was gonna get a full set of arcane too, id say lunar arcane looks better than TT99. In any case how does this http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=933be08ac9369fca look? I think it looks ok, and it's probably cheaper than the build i gave with the cube neck... but even though i put in the int cape, i'd probably just keep the mantle, since i'd prefer to use the TT99 magic sword. I also want to be able to switch out both my rings between p attack and m attack, and at least be able to switch out a neck or belt with chan for cases when i need it.>.<0
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kinda offtopic but this is interesting. a bit low defenses for such money invested in 4x nirvana pieces. if i change my shards similar to your and the weapon plus restat a bit that mag/vitShifong - Heavens Tear wrote: »My current build:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=be8ae16dbdf5872d
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=8e41126f3d6289da
i really dont see such big difference
ofc you can go full heavy but i was planning to get 2 pieces of nirvana HA too, seems like i dont gain much defenses but more physical atk which id like to have0 -
I like that build, though being finicky I still like at very least Voidlands to allow you the option of Swindlers, since that SDP has kinda handcuffed you. SDP isn't going to nearly as much for your phys def as swindler's or the ele cube neck would do for your mag def. Overall, though, it's still a solid build. I like it.Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary wrote: »Well, while i would much prefer full TT99 HA, I might have to go with a mix of lunar/TT99 incase i dont upgrade my tome. TT99 HA looks so much better than lunar HA, but if i was gonna get a full set of arcane too, id say lunar arcane looks better than TT99. In any case how does this http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=933be08ac9369fca look? I think it looks ok, and it's probably cheaper than the build i gave with the cube neck... but even though i put in the int cape, i'd probably just keep the mantle, since i'd prefer to use the TT99 magic sword. I also want to be able to switch out both my rings between p attack and m attack, and at least be able to switch out a neck or belt with chan for cases when i need it.0 -
JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »I like that build, though being finicky I still like at very least Voidlands to allow you the option of Swindlers, since that SDP has kinda handcuffed you. SDP isn't going to nearly as much for your phys def as swindler's or the ele cube neck would do for your mag def. Overall, though, it's still a solid build. I like it.
Same here, I'd much prefer the voidlands tome, but i just got my helmet. I think the next thing im going to work on is some Coa rings. But then again about that build i could switch the SDP with the TT99 lion belt and use the swindler's neck http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=57d3b7f9a30041c3>.<0 -
Comparing both of these..Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary wrote: »Same here, I'd much prefer the voidlands tome, but i just got my helmet. I think the next thing im going to work on is some Coa rings. But then again about that build i could switch the SDP with the TT99 lion belt and use the swindler's neck http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=57d3b7f9a30041c3
Swindlers/Lionheart <==> SDP/Sachet
Pdef: 19K <==> 20K (both 83% buffed)
Mdef: 7000 <==> 6900 (both 63% buffed)
HP: 9200 <==> 9400 (buffed)
Crit: 17% <==> 16%
MP (Fox): 5000 <==> 4900
Grade: 11(m)/12(p) <=> 11(p)/12(m)
I'm not really sure I like this one, though. You lose a little over 200HP for 1% crit. The other refines +8 and above are roughly the same on your overall reductions.
More importantly than all of that, one thing that just popped up in my head is how you have your STR down to a T at 250.. with bonuses. The only problem with that is the Solar Flash Plate, Lionheart Belt/SDP, and Lunar Robe all have variable STR bonuses (amongst others, but STR is the most volatile in this case). By default, ecatomb assigns the highest of values to that variable, but your chances of getting max STR (i.e. highest value) on all 3 of those combined (I combined the Belt/SDP as 1 of those 3 since you were using them for different builds) are well below 10%, meaning if even one of those gear with variable STR doesn't give you it's max amount, you won't be able to use the TT99 HA.
I made changes to your NP/Sachet/SDP build since seemed more economical, given the lack of difference amongst pdef/mdef, and accounting for variables in STR, MAG, and DEX:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=f76d9adeb94ba96e
I also threw this out there as well, especially if you like playing fox often, using an IHRS in place of the NP, though will comment after on the options with this build for human magic caster or herc tanking:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=5361a8fb1700fa5a
Consider..
NP <==> IHRS (w/garnet gem):
HP: 9457 <==> 9798
MAtk: 7438 - 7530 <==> 6184 - 7721
PAtk: 4280 - 4697 <==> 4618 - 5688
Crit: 16% <==> 17%
Since the IHRS is not that expensive, will point out the option of still using the NP for magic casting in fox/human and/or herc tanking since the -channeling will help greatly.So -6 from the NP is interchangeable with the IHRS, the sachet with a -6 (or greater) OHT crafted belt, plus the cheap alternative of TT90 AA -6 wristguards, giving you -18+ channeling, which is more than sufficient.0 -
why dont you replace lunar chest with tt99 one for +15 vit?Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary wrote: »Same here, I'd much prefer the voidlands tome, but i just got my helmet. I think the next thing im going to work on is some Coa rings. But then again about that build i could switch the SDP with the TT99 lion belt and use the swindler's neck http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=57d3b7f9a30041c3
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=0613ee33d3e848fa
lunar is only good if you plan to nirvana, also its not bound and cheaper but cant socket since its expensive0 -
There's one huge flaw with your build. As I iterated with hers in the last post..why dont you replace lunar chest with tt99 one for +15 vit?
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=0613ee33d3e848fa
lunar is only good if you plan to nirvana, also its not bound and cheaper but cant socket since its expensiveMore importantly than all of that, one thing that just popped up in my head is how you have your STR down to a T at 250.. with bonuses. The only problem with that is the Solar Flash Plate, Lionheart Belt/SDP, and Lunar Robe all have variable STR bonuses (amongst others, but STR is the most volatile in this case). By default, ecatomb assigns the highest of values to that variable, but your chances of getting max STR (i.e. highest value) on all 3 of those combined (I combined the Belt/SDP as 1 of those 3 since you were using them for different builds) are well below 10%, meaning if even one of those gear with variable STR doesn't give you it's max amount, you won't be able to use the TT99 HA.
The only way that works is if the robe, belt, and rings are all max STR/DEX, though the real pain in the *** variables will be the belt and robe. Odds are not in favor of this at all, still.
Plus, with the Solar Flash Plate..
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=26386156fb22a9e4
Ms_HopToIt would actually be able to use her 99 gear at 99 instead of 101, counting for variables in the robe and chest piece, which is the only concerns, since one can buy a max STR SDP and COA ring pretty readily. Another story with the Lionheart Belt.0 -
excuse me? there is nothing wrong with that build (http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=50e22b7e6015a2de), it has minimum stats on cape/rings/belt/helm and tt99 chest doesnt give you any (as you rely on str/dex from lunar)
im sure at least one of the pieces will have at least more than min stats for better stats. you have 6 str on your helm and 8 str on sky demon and you call that min stats?0 -
why dont you replace lunar chest with tt99 one for +15 vit?
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=0613ee33d3e848fa
lunar is only good if you plan to nirvana, also its not bound and cheaper but cant socket since its expensiveJanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »There's one huge flaw with your build. As I iterated with hers in the last post..
The only way that works is if the robe, belt, and rings are all max STR/DEX, though the real pain in the *** variables will be the belt and robe. Odds are not in favor of this at all, still.
Plus, with the Solar Flash Plate..
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=26386156fb22a9e4
Ms_HopToIt would actually be able to use her 99 gear at 99 instead of 101, counting for variables in the robe and chest piece, which is the only concerns, since one can buy a max STR SDP and COA ring pretty readily. Another story with the Lionheart Belt.
You're excused. Go ahead back to your post telling Ms_HopToIt to replace the lunar chest with the TT99 one. Click the link. Modify the values of STR/DEX/MAG to 6 on the lunar robe. What happens? Oops. TT99 goes red. In that link you made their max values the exact amount necessary for STR and DEX, however, there's a small percent chance the STR alone will make it max twice, on the cape and the belt, never mind the DEX and MAG too, meaning an extremely high probability that both will go red, and this is at 101.excuse me? there is nothing wrong with that build (http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=50e22b7e6015a2de), it has minimum stats on cape/rings/belt/helm and tt99 chest doesnt give you any (as you rely on str/dex from lunar)
im sure at least one of the pieces will have at least more than min stats for better stats. you have 6 str on your helm and 8 str on sky demon and you call that min stats?
The IHRS build, while having the cape max, still accounted in every stat that needed bonuses, extra space allotted in case stats weren't maxed -- the only ones that mattered there was the robe and chest. And if you have to ask why the SDP and helm were max stats that's because Ms_HopToIt already has the helm, which I presume is max stats because he/she put it that way, and because you can easily buy a fricken max STR SDP, max DEX COA ring, which are tradeable. It's not very practical to keep buying lunar robes and making TT99 belts (both bound so obviously not on the market) to try and get 1 more stat. I actually iterated this in the last post but I guess you didn't read it. I put it in bold for you right here. Please read it this time before getting so defensive. b:pleased
In the link you just gave me in your latest response, you modified base attributes, which wasn't the build you previously had. So, to critique that one.. I don't like it either. If you're going with an NP, the Solar Flash Plate still offers flexibility to use that build at 99 instead of waiting til 101, and you still have the options of putting more into dex that would gain a bonus crit %. The mdef and pdef difference there is negligible. Still get more HP from the IHRS build w/Solar Flash Plate, if you compare must-use-at-101 builds:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=5361a8fb1700fa5a
The only way it is more reasonable to go with TT99 chest is if Ms_HopToIt goes with Voidlands or some other same-level tome (like +20 mag).0 -
excuse me? there is nothing wrong with that build (http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=50e22b7e6015a2de), it has minimum stats on cape/rings/belt/helm and tt99 chest doesnt give you any (as you rely on str/dex from lunar)
im sure at least one of the pieces will have at least more than min stats for better stats. you have 6 str on your helm and 8 str on sky demon and you call that min stats?
My helmet and sky demon's pearl actually have maxed stats. (Thank goodness) That's why Janus didn't change them.
@Janus: tysm for your input. I was suprised when i saw I could wear that build at lvl 99 instead of 101, even with a TT99 magic sword. Which I would prefer indefinitely. b:thanks>.<0 -
You're welcome, and the reason I cited it is it can take a while to get from 99 to 101 for those not spending all their time doing hyper FF, noting that since in the time I've seen you post I don't recall seeing you level all that quickly, which means you have plenty of time to farm all that stuff (stuff I wish even my veno ended up with), and thus would benefit a lot more being able to use it at 99. Having so many chars, I had to choose which got the most "good" stuff, and that went to my BM, cleric, and archer, primarily, with my wizard stealing the IHRS, so I definitely would be jealous if you manage to get all your ducks in a row with that build. Good luck!0
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JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »You're welcome, and the reason I cited it is it can take a while to get from 99 to 101 for those not spending all their time doing hyper FF, noting that since in the time I've seen you post I don't recall seeing you level all that quickly, which means you have plenty of time to farm all that stuff (stuff I wish even my veno ended up with), and thus would benefit a lot more being able to use it at 99. Having so many chars, I had to choose which got the most "good" stuff, and that went to my BM, cleric, and archer, primarily, with my wizard stealing the IHRS, so I definitely would be jealous if you manage to get all your ducks in a row with that build. Good luck!
b:chuckle Lol, pretty observant aren't you? I am a pretty slow paced lvler. I do fcc alot, but sometimes dont even hyper. and I hardly do my dailies lmao. but ty again for your input, I didnt even think id be able to use TT99 at lvl 99. But, im gonna bookmark that build and definately shoot for it.>.<0 -
why do you have to write walls of text when it can be said in a few rows? i took exactly the same build she made it and changed the chest, thats it.. nothing more and you write me a wall of text. if she made a build for lvl 99 i would change and make one for lvl 99 or with whatever items i suppose she has giving a link.JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »You're excused. Go ahead back to your post telling Ms_HopToIt to replace the lunar chest with the TT99 one. Click the link. Modify the values of STR/DEX/MAG to 6 on the lunar robe. What happens? Oops. TT99 goes red. In that link you made their max values the exact amount necessary for STR and DEX, however, there's a small percent chance the STR alone will make it max twice, on the cape and the belt, never mind the DEX and MAG too, meaning an extremely high probability that both will go red, and this is at 101.
The IHRS build, while having the cape max, still accounted in every stat that needed bonuses, extra space allotted in case stats weren't maxed -- the only ones that mattered there was the robe and chest. And if you have to ask why the SDP and helm were max stats that's because Ms_HopToIt already has the helm, which I presume is max stats because he/she put it that way, and because you can easily buy a fricken max STR SDP, max DEX COA ring, which are tradeable. It's not very practical to keep buying lunar robes and making TT99 belts (both bound so obviously not on the market) to try and get 1 more stat. I actually iterated this in the last post but I guess you didn't read it. I put it in bold for you right here. Please read it this time before getting so defensive. b:pleased
In the link you just gave me in your latest response, you modified base attributes, which wasn't the build you previously had. So, to critique that one.. I don't like it either. If you're going with an NP, the Solar Flash Plate still offers flexibility to use that build at 99 instead of waiting til 101, and you still have the options of putting more into dex that would gain a bonus crit %. The mdef and pdef difference there is negligible. Still get more HP from the IHRS build w/Solar Flash Plate, if you compare must-use-at-101 builds:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=5361a8fb1700fa5a
The only way it is more reasonable to go with TT99 chest is if Ms_HopToIt goes with Voidlands or some other same-level tome (like +20 mag).
...and i stand my point again, lunar chest is bad because you cant socket it like tt99 (if you get 2 sockets) and tt99 actually give you better stats and possibility to keep it along with the wrists for -0.05 and go nirvana pants and probably some ashura ornaments for pve dps0
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