aps veno?

Yulk - Heavens Tear

have anyone ever tried getting a veno with highest aps possible for a veno with magic instruments ?

cape
tome
2x TT99 LA chest and boots
2x TT99 protection necklace
Nirvana light leggings and sleeves

MiniST - Sanctuary

why would you? total waste of money and crystals and it's not that hard to calculate...

VlLKASS - Sanctuary

You can play with the calculator & see. But I know a HA veno on sanc with a lot of int -.- hits hard...

tweakz

MiniST - Sanctuary wrote: »

why would you? total waste of money and crystals and it's not that hard to calculate...

Tangling Mire -55pdef + Ironwood -40%pdef,no need for stats wasted on dex along with +150%pdef sounds like a win to me. I almost went for it, but it would cripple the way I like to play.

VlLKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »

You can play with the calculator & see. But I know a HA veno on sanc with a lot of int -.- hits hard...

Yep, even as non -int pure mags, we can still do some great DD in melee.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

MiniST - Sanctuary wrote: »

why would you? total waste of money and crystals and it's not that hard to calculate...

It's actually better than a caster veno. Comparing +10 nirvana magic sword and fist with two garnet gems and 2 band from heaven's jail rings, the magic sword actually yields slightly higher weapon attack (about 3% higher, more if you were to refine to +12). Assume that they're the same since the fist weapon gets a few extra crit%.

The BM would be at 5 atk/sec, 15 sec triple sparked, 3 sec spark pause. patk modifier is then 1 + 287/150 + 0.75 + 5 = 8.66. Factor for spark pause and 5 aps and total DPS modifier is 36.1

The sage veno should be at 2.5 atk/sec, which is 10 chi per sec. So builds 3 sparks in 30 sec. That's 15 sec sparked, 15 sec unsparked, 3 sec spark pause. patk modifer is 1 + 252/150 + 2 = 4.68 unsparked. +5 sparked gives 9.68 sparked. Average over 33 sec is 6.53. Factor in 2.5 aps and total DPS modifier is 16.3.

The demon veno patk modifer is 1 + 252/150 + 1.5 = 4.18 unsparked. +6.5 sparked gives 10.68 sparked. Average over 33 sec is 6.75 (yes, with good -interval, demon spark yields better DPS than sage melee mastery). Factor in 2.5 aps and total DPS modifier is 16.9.

Those veno DPS modifiers will go higher if you have a chi skill on your genie and can spark more frequently. So this is actually more of a worst-case scenario. Looking at it with weapons (and ignoring crit%) you get:

BM average 56k DPS at +10 refine, 66k DPS at +12.
• Sage veno average 26k DPS at +10, 32k DPS at +12.
• Demon veno average 27k DPS at +10, 33k DPS at +12.

Yeah it's only about half a BM's DPS, but factor in Sage Soul Degen, Amp, and (not sure if this is worth it) Ironwood, and you end up a lot closer than half the 5 aps BM's DPS.

By way of comparison, the best DPS veno spell which doesn't require chi is Lucky Scarab. If you had 60% channeling and were somehow able to spam that continuously, you'd be casting it every 1.4 sec. Figure a pure mag build (450 magic) who is somehow able to stay permanently triple sparked (15 sec sparked, 3 sec spark pause). Sage Lucky does base matk + 100% weapon attack + 4320. Weapon attack with the +10 nirvana weapon, 2 sapphire gems, and 2 -6% channel rings is 2018. matk is around 11500. Triple sparked matk should be about 30k. So that's a total 30k+2018+4320 = 36338 avg damage per cast. Add 25% wood mastery and you get 45k per cast.

Account for the 3 sec spark pause and 1.4 sec channel + cast time, and this caster veno can only manage 27k DPS. Like I've been saying on the general forum, -int is broken. A heavy -int veno using regular melee attacks and sparks can achieve the DPS of a caster veno permanently triple sparked with the cooldown removed from the best DPS veno spell.

tweakz

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Account for the 3 sec spark pause and 1.4 sec channel + cast time, and this caster veno can only manage 27k DPS. Like I've been saying on the general forum, -int is broken. A heavy -int veno using regular melee attacks and sparks can achieve the DPS of a caster veno permanently triple sparked with the cooldown removed from the best DPS veno spell.

Having higher dps on a single target doesn't mean it's broken. You're ignoring the many differences and scenarios. You're not going to go into Valley of the Scarred and AoE as effectively as a good pure mag. I don't think you're going to be as effective in BH Metal or Fire either. 3 hits can = 12 mobs dead soloing in VoS. You also take more melee dmg which adds to your operating costs which slows your progress. A pure mag can also have over 500 mag with ~-60%ch without Nirvana. In the event, I'd guess a lot of mobs are dead before you even reach them, and if you're using a Nix: it's getting stuck in the ground more since Mages can stand in one spot pegging mobs off. When it comes to the bosses, you're faced with Genie skills like Elemental Weakness which boosts their pdef. BMs and Archers are largely over rated lately and it's more a case people being fail at other classes than it is them being OP.

There are many things to consider like gimped pet healing, poorer aoe aggro, poorer mdef, ability to dd outside of AoE, etc. If -int venos didn't have significantly better 1-1dps it wold be broken!

While Lucky Scarab has good ch/cast time and dmg, it also doesn't produce as much chi as Sage Venemous can and it doesn't wood debuff like Demon Venemous. It also cost over 2x the MP of Venmous. Imho: It's best used as an emergency or timely stun. I'm not sure, but it also seems like switching from spamming venemous to casting a Lucky can actually slow the casting down.

Yulk - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

There are many things to consider like gimped pet healing, poorer aoe aggro, poorer mdef, ability to dd outside of AoE, etc. If -int venos didn't have significantly better 1-1dps it wold be broken!

Gimped pet healing? even pure VIT venoes heal good enough minimum magic unless you forgot about spark burst, it will kick the can of you want to be wizards.

Poorer AOE aggro, so you mean you aggro mobs from your pet easier as pure MAG? b:surrender

Poorer m.def... lol magic attacks will still hit you hard, arcane or not but then again thats what refined magic rings are for, M.DEF

So your saying 2.5-4.18 aps on a veno fail? second, way better than pure magic, you can attack and heal faster in fox form than in caster form even without -chan.

I'd like to see you duel a 4 aps veno. b:chuckle

tweakz

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Gimped pet healing? even pure VIT venoes heal good enough minimum magic unless you forgot about spark burst, it will kick the can of you want to be wizards.

How is sparking going to help you on soloing a world boss or some other hard hitting boss?

Poorer AOE aggro, so you mean you aggro mobs from your pet easier as pure MAG? b:surrender

Did I say that? b:chuckle -no

So your saying 2.5-4.18 aps on a veno fail?

No, that's you idiot trying to put words in my mouth. Troll on.

kenlee

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Comparing +10 nirvana magic sword and fist

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yeah it's only about half a BM's DPS, but factor in Sage Soul Degen, Amp, and (not sure if this is worth it) Ironwood, and you end up a lot closer than half the 5 aps BM's DPS.

i dont understand, i assume that you used the magic sword for the caster veno and fists for fox melee veno?! or just bm using fists and veno using sword and -int
your second statement might be null since you cant use any of those skills as melee veno with fists unless you stay and melee in human form and constantly changing weapon and form for ironwood/amplify which is a waste of time imo even with magic sword if you are solo

Yulk - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

How is sparking going to help you on soloing a world boss or some other hard hitting boss?



Did I say that? b:chuckle -no



No, that's you idiot trying to put words in my mouth. Troll on.

Are you kidding? Isn't that what spark is for? Even single spark is enough. On top of that, your going to take even longer time to kill because your spells combined with pet heal, you'll have a harder and longer time thanks to casting times. Also physical AOEs, have fun trying to survive those yourself.


You said poorer aoe aggro, meaning you aggro mobs in AOE.

kenlee

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

have anyone ever tried getting a veno with highest aps possible for a veno with magic instruments ?

anyway, why would you do that? when pet is tanking, most of the time you just heal and sometimes debuff boss so this way pet have higher dps.

if you are trying to solo things w/o pet, its the wrong class. bloodpaint doesnt work for venos, venos triple spark is the lamest spark ever, no attack speed no damage reduction no faster channeling no hp regen... nothing, just some extra atk power and mp (good for casters). hard to get even half dps as bm's, not to mention sins.

on top of that, your points distribution makes you even worse, either you dont use points in to magic over 5 or you gimp str/dex (bm/sin dont need mag)

Yulk - Heavens Tear

kenlee wrote: »

anyway, why would you do that? when pet is tanking, most of the time you just heal and sometimes debuff boss so this way pet have higher dps.

if you are trying to solo things w/o pet, its the wrong class. bloodpaint doesnt work for venos, venos triple spark is the lamest spark ever, no attack speed no damage reduction no faster channeling no hp regen... nothing, just some extra atk power and mp (good for casters). hard to get even half dps as bm's, not to mention sins.

on top of that, your points distribution makes you even worse, either you dont use points in to magic over 5 or you gimp str/dex (bm/sin dont need mag)

I am curious if venoes do that. Oh why would you just be a caster veno which is inferior to fox form? Don't forget increased magic resistance... ew. -chan is useless since most skills used are just venomus scarab and ironwood scarab

tweakz

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I am curious if venoes do that. Oh why would you just be a caster veno which is inferior to fox form? Don't forget increased magic resistance... ew. -chan is useless since most skills used are just venomus scarab and ironwood scarab

Pls stop posting nonsense.

kenlee

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I am curious if venoes do that. Oh why would you just be a caster veno which is inferior to fox form? Don't forget increased magic resistance... ew. -chan is useless since most skills used are just venomus scarab and ironwood scarab

no, i use far more skills than ironwood/venomous and yes -channeling would help me to do those skills faster -> faster chi gain and more sparks for 3spark/nova. with good channeling and not so strong bosses i can use nature grace/metabolic boost and triple spark as often as possible and i dont have any problem with mp and that without any cleric hp/mp regen and im not pure mag

Regenbogen - Lost City

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

have anyone ever tried getting a veno with highest aps possible for a veno with magic instruments ?

cape
tome
2x TT99 LA chest and boots
2x TT99 protection necklace
Nirvana light leggings and sleeves

magic instrument: 2.22aps - but you get melee mastery & foxform
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=37728f6f944d13a3

fists/claws(-0.1interval): 4aps
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=1ec35498efc42a78

kenlee

Regenbogen - Lost City wrote: »

magic instrument: 2.22aps - but you get melee mastery & foxform
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=37728f6f944d13a3

fists/claws(-0.1interval): 4aps
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=1ec35498efc42a78

yep, magic sword in this case is better than fists plus you can use skills and the build is more balanced even with a crappier ring

tweakz

kenlee wrote: »

yep, magic sword in this case is better than fists plus you can use skills and the build is more balanced even with a crappier ring

It seems close to me, except the claw build has much better defense and is going to build sparks much faster and crit more often.

kenlee

its also because the neck is a mag def one and the other one TT99 gives you p.atk and pdef
and lunar ring

volst

APS veno is only useful in Nien event, and that's not going to last forever.

Can't get bloodpaint = no TT solo.
Archers can solo TT without bloodpaint because they have constant 5 aps and sage spark reduces damage. Veno doesn't have any of that.

It seems good on paper, but practically it's useless.

tweakz

volst wrote: »

APS veno is only useful in Nien event, and that's not going to last forever.

The first stage of the event has a lot of points available. Many of the mobs in the first stage are quite often killed before a melee class can get to them. There's also the Elemental Weakness Genie skill.

Can't get bloodpaint = no TT solo.
Archers can solo TT without bloodpaint because they have constant 5 aps and sage spark reduces damage. Veno doesn't have any of that.

It seems good on paper, but practically it's useless.

5aps isn't cheap and I have yet to see comparable equips on any veno. I think what happened was that there were a few cash shopping BMs that got the 5aps and started a trend. I'm in squads more often with archers and BMs with +5 weapons or less that aren't out DD'ing me (w/o my pet factored in) than I am in squad with a BM or Sin that can out DD me.

If pet does 1 aps, we only need to do 4 aps to get 5aps.

Regenbogen - Lost City

tweakz wrote: »

If pet does 1 aps, we only need to do 4 aps to get 5aps.

pet aps really suck...
a pet is like a fist bm with 1aps and 4k patk...
hopefully we get a pet skill which improves atk speed a lot before they fix bleed...

tweakz

Regenbogen - Lost City wrote: »

pet aps really suck...
a pet is like a fist bm with 1aps and 4k patk...
hopefully we get a pet skill which improves atk speed a lot before they fix bleed...

That's still more dps than the avg 90-99 veno is dishing out with mage atks, and there's the skills like Pierce that boost it's value. I often see my Dark Wanderer hitting for over 10k repeated on [?] bosses which is enough to steal aggro from some barbs without skills.