"Noob cause dont have a Herc"

Yamiino - Heavens Tear

I know people with hercs and people without a herc. All of them are level 90+.

What I have seen as of watching on these levels (nearly end-game):

For Herc venos:

1. Expected to tank pretty much every single boss in FF / BH, even with a barb in squad. Simply because it is cheaper for everyone.

2. Expected to keep the bosses debuffed and everyone else sparked even while tanking, not to mention act as DD while doing this.


For normal / rare pet venos:

1. Not expected to tank most bosses, yet armoured bear can handle some of them.

2. Expected to keep the bosses debuffed and everyone else sparked even while tanking, not to mention act as DD while doing this.


So, this looks pretty much the same. What is the oh so mighty power of a Herc to get a squad?, its simple... Repair costs for everyone else.

As a herc veno you're pretty much the tank and barb becomes a DD. When you don't have a herc you're expected to DD only pretty much (some times tank but not as often).

Is it important to get a Herc / Nix for endgame?
Answer would be, yes.

Why?
Nix venos are loved in TW, Herc venos can make tons of coins (pay back for all the costs on the long run).

IF you don't plan to be a TW/PVP veno then you don't really need a Nix.


I have a veno, it is level 66, and I got it a Herc, do I find it usefull?
Hell, more than that.

I can solo my BHs or go with full DD power without a cleric and still get the BH done.

When I didn't have a herc I did have more problems to kill, pet died more times, i had to heal it more, it would not be able to hold aggro if more than one was pulled aka heal = dead.

Herc just does things easier, thats all.
It is not 100% required, but it is nice to have it.

I still use my lvl 3x flying piggeh for the lolz and its amusing

tweakz

Every time I'm with another veno in FF, they fail at debuffing, and spark passing. - Even the Hercless ones. A lot of Barbs are feeling obsolete lately yet there aren't many BMs willing to do the lures that Barbs do, and only occasionally step up to tank Fragrance even though about anyone in squad could. How many bosses in FF either have adds that are best taken care of by Barb (since they're not the [?] ones)? When someone steals aggro from Herc, who rescues them? Barb buffs also help compensate for the under-equipped. Everyone has a duty to save costs for others. DD's should be high DPS to make the battles shorter. Clerics should have decent heals with good res level being a bonus (imagine that: clerics self sacrificing for self centered venos -"buy me a herc" -QQ ). BMs should have decent enough weapons and skills to hold aggro over multiple mobs so everyone can dd better.

1. Not expected to tank most bosses, yet armoured bear can handle some of them.

So can a Scorpion or a Dark Wanderer which have much better dps and aggro.

2. Expected to keep the bosses debuffed and everyone else sparked even while tanking, not to mention act as DD while doing this.

As I've said many times before, if you're too lazy for the job of Veno: roll a wiz! Most of the gears are compatible and you can catch yourself your own AC pet.

Yamiino - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

As I've said many times before, if you're too lazy for the job of Veno: roll a wiz! Most of the gears are compatible and you can catch yourself your own AC pet.

Just saying what venos are expected to do on the eyes of a cleric lvl 95 :P

Indeed, most don't give sparks away, I'm as a cleric a spark eater on FF, I'm sage and so I have Master Li's Technique which gives 50 chi, yet I have to use cloud eruption to be able to keep up when veno is not giving away sparks.

I squadded once, with a veno with amp level 1, she did not have a herc, so I do agree, even non herc venos fail at times. But hey, there are also BMs, barbs, clerics, psychics, assassins, that have fail days. No one is excluded haha.

Ashivas - Dreamweaver

Veno's are exceptionally easy to make money on, so the fact that you can't afford one disgusts me.

XxRaynaHeart - Sanctuary

Ashivas - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Veno's are exceptionally easy to make money on, so the fact that you can't afford one disgusts me.

/Laugh
Tenchar

Zeelia - Raging Tide

If you can't get a Herc....then don't get one.
Play the game as you want.

I was worried about this after I read in a guide that I should have my Herc at lvl 60...
I was like OH shiza //Wastes too much on teles//

Best thing about being a veno is you CHOOSE what pet you want.b:victory

Missyfairy - Heavens Tear

Silest - Sanctuary wrote: »

It is not impossible -.-. It'll just take time.

But I forgot..in these times, it's all about instant gratification.

That and I'm stingy with my hard earn real money.

And how much time did it take? In total?

Joshcja - Sanctuary

for solo farming herc is pretty much needed as a veno and its nice to have for general tanking

oh and they get you into fcc (hell if i know why) or anywhere else barbs are to lazy/bm's are to inept

but lets face it if your in a TT at 89+ and the DD with you cant rip a herc off a ? in a heartbeat...find better DD yours sucks

basicly

hard bosses = barbs and good bm's or epicsupercashshopedomghaxgear sins

easy bosses= solo em unless you know some really competent DD

so for any kind of real squad play i'd much rather have a multi element bash scorp or dark wanderer veno

(on the spark thing veno in my fac i run with quite a bit got so tired of throwing me sparks that she got me a pile of gold jades lol and yes we still steal all her sparks)

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Zeelia - Raging Tide wrote: »

I was worried about this after I read in a guide that I should have my Herc at lvl 60...
I was like OH shiza //Wastes too much on teles//

If you think in terms of coin saved vs. hours played, instead of coin saved vs. level achieved, teleporting is one of the best ways to make money. It saves you a ton of time which you can spend on other money-making activities like grinding.

In terms of coin saved vs. level achieved, running/flying everywhere only seems better than teleporting because running/flying slows down your leveling more than it slows down your coin acquisition rate. So by the time you've e.g. saved enough money for a herc, you're level 59 because of time wasted instead of being level 61 like the person who teleported. But the person who teleported didn't get their herc until they were 60. I dunno about you, but I would rather get a legendary pet sooner in terms of time, rather than earlier in terms of level.

Missyfairy - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And how much time did it take? In total?

If you grind 2 hours a night at 200k/hr (note: I measured 150k/hr at level 30), and play 5 nights a week, you should hit 60 mil after 30 weeks, which is a bit more than half a year. I'm aware a herc right now costs ~90 mil, but figure gold will come down in price after packs go away on Aug 11, and there's bound to be a sale or three on battle pet packs during those 30 weeks. This is hardly the best way to go about making money, but is one of the simplest and easiest, which makes it a pretty good worst-case scenario. So worst case, it should take you a bit more than a half year of dedicated playing to get your herc.

(Best case, I still maintain is simply using RL cash. Get a second job at minimum-wage. Pays $6.75/hr. Figure $5/hr after taxes. To get to $186.50 will take you 37.3 hours. At 2 hours a night and 5 nights a week, that's a little less than 4 weeks. Yeah you won't be able to play the game as much for 4 weeks. But in the remaining 26 weeks you can enjoy playing with your herc and spending the coin you make in those 2 hrs/night on other fun stuff like equipment upgrades or fashion or whatever.

Edit: And to cut off the obvious retort that you'd rather spend your money on food: If your circumstances are so dire that you must spend any extra money you make on food, you shouldn't even be playing this game. Quit, find a job, and feed yourself. RL takes priority over a game.)

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If you grind 2 hours a night at 200k/hr (note: I measured 150k/hr at level 30), and play 5 nights a week, you should hit 60 mil after 30 weeks, which is a bit more than half a year. I'm aware a herc right now costs ~90 mil, but figure gold will come down in price after packs go away on Aug 11, and there's bound to be a sale or three on battle pet packs during those 30 weeks. This is hardly the best way to go about making money, but is one of the simplest and easiest, which makes it a pretty good worst-case scenario. So worst case, it should take you a bit more than a half year of dedicated playing to get your herc.

that's dedicated playing as in, dedicated specifically and only to getting a herc.

it's also dedicated as in, the legendary Korean MMO-gamer's dedication to grinding.

i dunno about anybody else, but i'd end up ragequitting before the first week was through.

Best case, I still maintain is simply using RL cash.

i've got a house, a spouse, two dogs and some parakeets. sure, i could blow $200 on some pixels --- but given what all else i could spend that money on instead, i'd prefer to sleep in my bed rather than the doghouse.

BloodyQueen - Dreamweaver

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear wrote: »

i've got a house, a spouse, two dogs and some parakeets. sure, i could blow $200 on some pixels --- but given what all else i could spend that money on instead, i'd prefer to sleep in my bed rather than the doghouse.

Agreed! I sometimes find it stupid to spend rl cash on games but if u have money u need to waste somewhere go ahead and do it. But this isn't the best option even if u use only in game cash u can still make millions and billions u just need to know how to make them.

scooterwolf1

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear wrote: »

i've got a house, a spouse, two dogs and some parakeets. sure, i could blow $200 on some pixels --- but given what all else i could spend that money on instead, i'd prefer to sleep in my bed rather than the doghouse.

i agree with you Me and my parter worked out the other night for us to buy a herc or Nix useing RL money would cost us $290 in newzealand dollars ( which is about 200 US) there noway we gonna pay that for just one pet or fork out another $290 for another pet for my parter * when bills and food come first in this household*

if we happen to grind the coinage out in game then we might buy one but we love our bears too much b:victory

Solandri - Heavens Tear

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I've got a house, a spouse, two dogs and some parakeets. sure, i could blow $200 on some pixels --- but given what all else i could spend that money on instead, i'd prefer to sleep in my bed rather than the doghouse.

No argument there. If you have better things to spend money on than the game, then don't spend it on the game.

All I'm saying is if you're going to spend lots of time doing something like grinding to get a herc, for most people it would be a much better use of that time to get a second part-time job and use the extra income to buy the herc.

If your finances are such that you can't justify spending money to buy a herc, and your time constraints preclude saving up the money for it with a second job, then your time constraints preclude saving up the money for it by grinding. The logical conclusion then is that you are not getting a herc. So stop fretting about it, get a regular pet, and enjoy the game.

tweakz

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

All I'm saying is if you're going to spend lots of time doing something like grinding to get a herc, for most people it would be a much better use of that time to get a second part-time job and use the extra income to buy the herc.

Leaving out other factors like Rep, Spirit, XP, Cultivation, Genie development, comrades, B/S opportunities, tax brackets. Some of us don't want to support the sick actions of our Country either.

I fail to see how grinding is necessary to obtain a Herc. As heavy a grinder as I am, I'd guess that over half my coin spent on my Herc came from vending. Also, just leveling an Assassin to 20, I ended up with 150,000 coin, over 40 Hay (worth ~6k ea) and all the skills I wanted for it. If you have an 11m/s mount you could find a heavy grind spot in non aggro space for lower levels and just run around picking up the drops they don't want. This consists mostly of holding the pick up button down. It's not like you can't do other things at the same time.

My guess is that the same people that complain about the cost of a Herc are the same ones that do Crazy Stone and World Quest religiously while complaining about how boring they are. All you have to do to earn a Herc is play the game.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

You get it much faster if you spend some real life money and wait for battle pack sales.

Cyber_shot - Sanctuary

Hey michi can u tell me how do u have so much magic resistance?b:shocked

tweakz

By lvl 30, my Assassin had made me about 1m in a few half days of playing. The coin is easily available, people are just spending it on other things or discarding it. That's a lot of coin at the lowest levels of the game. It comes faster at higher levels, and I'm sure Assassins have higher repair costs than a veno.

Someone once said that it wasn't worth Bill Gate's time to bend over and pick up a $100 bill. I think some of these people are prima donnas that are beyond putting in any effort. Picking up a 100 doesn't take any time and similarly acquiring a Herc just by playing the game doesn't take much extra effort.

Aniella - Harshlands

Dragonscare - Sanctuary wrote: »

"hey u are asking for a veno to help u with a bh"?
"yes what lvl are u?"
"im lvl 81"
"ok ur in"
"but"
"but what"?
"do u have a herc"?
"no" "i have an armoured bear"
"sorry ur no good to us"
"b:angry what the hell is wrong with u i cant afford a herc isnt an armoured bear enouf?!"
" no we need a proper veno u are useless!"
"b:angry good luck finding a better veno u dumbass!" "my bear is absolutely perfect for bhs and TT,s i even bet that he can beat u in a duel!"
"dragonscare has defeated .......such..and..such in a duel"
"so what still doesnt mean ur comming with us ur a waste of my time"
"ahuh what ever that duel proved im better then you u even tryed ur hardest b:chuckle b:pleased"
" shut up"
"laughs" im not normally like this but this is what happens when u come across some one ignorant and dumb. venos are awsome no matter what magmite, rare pets and hercs.

HAHAHAAHAHA xD they think..all like to waste food money on fake world^^..next time some1 say that..tell them this: no..but u can buy me 1..cuz u like waste ur life on game!

Brael - Dreamweaver

scooterwolf1 wrote: »

Does anyone pay to keep the herc or any other pets skills up to date every 20 lvls (200k each book) each pet can have up to 4 skills so there 800k all up every 20 lvls plus keeping your own skills upto date ?? i dont think so

I have 9 pets, all of them are using 4 skills, each skill is at level 5. As I leveled up I always kept all of my pets maxed out from level 40 on. My opinion is that in a squad a veno's job primarily consists of killing something as quickly as possible. Not having skills maxed out in order to squeeze out every point of damage possible means you aren't doing your job properly.

tweakz wrote: »

I agree that in the 80s hercless venos are rightly excluded. They should exclude themselves as BH's are coin sinks when they should be focused on meeting base standards. It's not like Barbs and Clerics aren't excluded for similar reasons. It annoys me when someone pulls out an Armored Bear in the same squad as Venos with Hercs because they could at least use a DD pet instead of trying to be like us and wasting time.

After doing a BH79 today I've come to the conclusion that I'm never bringing out my herc in a BH again (and likely not FC either). The reason is that squads too often take the lazy way out and want the herc to tank in order to save the barb repair costs. I understand the selfish argument but I see it a different way. I see the squad as being selfish to try and reduce their own repair costs by limiting the squads kill speed in the form of relying on a hercs horrible aggro. The biggest weakness of a herc is that it can't hold aggro against any real dps and forcing a squad to slow down to the hercs rate in order to save 1000 coin is ridiculous.

I'm not saying I would pull out an armored bear as a DD pet because that's ridiculous, but I strongly doubt I'm bringing my herc out from now on because they make everyone else lazy and unwilling to properly do their jobs. Truth is, since squads with good aps bm's and barbs relegate a non tanking herc to DD anyways, there's better pets I should be using in the first place.

Aniella - Harshlands wrote: »

HAHAHAAHAHA xD they think..all like to waste food money on fake world^^..next time some1 say that..tell them this: no..but u can buy me 1..cuz u like waste ur life on game!

Have you ever bought a computer upgrade in order to play a game or have a better experience when playing it? Infact, I just bought myself a new video card specifically for Civilization 5 when it comes out in 6 weeks. I don't see how that's a waste. It's paying for entertainment. I see no difference in doing that or spending money on PW other than the fact that one is for a physical item and the other a virtual item.

tweakz

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

After doing a BH79 today I've come to the conclusion that I'm never bringing out my herc in a BH again (and likely not FC either). The reason is that squads too often take the lazy way out and want the herc to tank in order to save the barb repair costs. I understand the selfish argument but I see it a different way. I see the squad as being selfish to try and reduce their own repair costs by limiting the squads kill speed in the form of relying on a hercs horrible aggro. The biggest weakness of a herc is that it can't hold aggro against any real dps and forcing a squad to slow down to the hercs rate in order to save 1000 coin is ridiculous.

I'd rather appeal to the few barbs left on the server that are worth something.

A squishy Scorpion can tank most bosses in FF, a Dark Wanderer can hold better aggro than a Herc on Stygean (but don't try to move with it), and Linus / Brigand / Hooli the **** wanna be black can be range tanked by myself. Last time I did a 79, Ekvous (cleric) tanked Linus while I herc tanked Brigand and we had a nice little AoE party on their butts.

Barbs are not the main tanks anymore and are mostly prized for buffs or as lurers (of huge amounts of mobs). Until you are with interval builds in FF taking down bosses before spawns/ aoes, etc: you're likely the most ideal tanker for most of FF. Bosses there are [?] while their spawns / adds aren't. That's not to say you can't use a Scorp or Dark Wanderer though.

I also view it all as a team effort. If a DD isn't doing their job: it costs the rest of the team. I do my part to save costs to the rest of the team. If I feel someone on the team is wasting my time / resources inordinately: I often just leave. Most of the warsong BH's I'm in, I do the luring and tanking simply because I can do it and get it done fast. I know how many of what I can tank so I know best how to lure. Only problems I run into is weak BB from overly HP statted clerics, clerics that don't catch on, or people who interfere and fail lure.

I'm not saying I would pull out an armored bear as a DD pet because that's ridiculous, but I strongly doubt I'm bringing my herc out from now on because they make everyone else lazy and unwilling to properly do their jobs.

I used to ride their nuts, but now I look for other things they might be doing great. If afterward I gotta speak up and nothing changes, then I drop squad and find something more profitable to do. Veno's aren't necessities, and I'm not there to sacrifice my time so they can be lazy. Under performing because others are doesn't suit me.

Truth is, since squads with good aps bm's and barbs relegate a non tanking herc to DD anyways, there's better pets I should be using in the first place.

Tru dat! Dunno if I'm gonna get a DD pet past 101 though.b:sad

Have you ever bought a computer upgrade in order to play a game or have a better experience when playing it? Infact, I just bought myself a new video card specifically for Civilization 5 when it comes out in 6 weeks. I don't see how that's a waste. It's paying for entertainment. I see no difference in doing that or spending money on PW other than the fact that one is for a physical item and the other a virtual item.

If I'd bought a Nix with cash only to find that it's flying up to mobs and just sitting there not attacking and would cause me deaths, or mobs not being able to hit what's right in front of them so they reset and kill me: I'd feel ripped off. If I put money into a game only to be treated like an unpaid beta tester, I'd be a bit pissed. Physical stuff I buy, I have some control over. I can replace leaky caps, I can alter firmware, I can clean corroded contacts, etc. With this game, I'm totally at their mercy and their mercy hasn't been good. The game is mostly a time killer for me: It's not balls out fun. Acquisitions are a huge factor in why I play, though I'm not nearly as materialistic in real life as evidenced by my lack of fashion or generic mount here. If I were paying to play: that sense of accomplishment would be out the door, and a huge portion of why I play would be null.

kenlee

oh yes i forgot that we are still beta testers for like 2 years and the game already going down...

Brael - Dreamweaver

tweakz wrote: »

I'd rather appeal to the few barbs left on the server that are worth something.

If a good barb wants me to tank because their wallet is hurting or even just wants to have fun and be a DD for a mob or two, I have no problem with it. What I do have a problem with is when it's suggested the herc tanks to lower repair costs (especially in a BH which is one time a pet should never be tanking for efficiency reasons). In my experience the suggestion usually comes from DD's who may have good intentions but by suggesting such are completely failing at their job and drastically limiting their characters potential damage output. What's the point of a 5 aps BM for example when they're limited to not surpassing the hercs 3k dps worth of aggro?

Barbs are not the main tanks anymore and are mostly prized for buffs or as lurers (of huge amounts of mobs). Until you are with interval builds in FF taking down bosses before spawns/ aoes, etc: you're likely the most ideal tanker for most of FF. Bosses there are [?] while their spawns / adds aren't. That's not to say you can't use a Scorp or Dark Wanderer though.

I disagree here, a barb who works their **** off just as much as a good veno works their **** off is still the main tank. I know one for example who's level 97 and can hold aggro from a level 102 sin going all out (the sin would place top 5 in nein beast so it's not like he's undergeared). The problem is a lot of barbs just get lazy and fail. I would argue that a higher percentage of barbs fail than venos fail, and that's really saying something. The difference is, a fail barb still holds value as a buffer and lurer while a fail veno can be replaced by some other random DD without the squad noticing a thing.

If I'd bought a Nix with cash only to find that it's flying up to mobs and just sitting there not attacking and would cause me deaths, or mobs not being able to hit what's right in front of them so they reset and kill me: I'd feel ripped off. If I put money into a game only to be treated like an unpaid beta tester, I'd be a bit pissed. Physical stuff I buy, I have some control over. I can replace leaky caps, I can alter firmware, I can clean corroded contacts, etc. With this game, I'm totally at their mercy and their mercy hasn't been good. The game is mostly a time killer for me: It's not balls out fun. Acquisitions are a huge factor in why I play, though I'm not nearly as materialistic in real life as evidenced by my lack of fashion or generic mount here. If I were paying to play: that sense of accomplishment would be out the door, and a huge portion of why I play would be null.

That's the fundamental difference with a virtual vs physical good. With a virtual item you technically don't have anything, and are entirely reliant on the company providing the service to continue providing that service in the future. My point though, was that the hostility cash shoppers receive in the game is ridiculous. Everyone pays extra for some form of entertainment they like. If someone chooses to spend that improving their experience in PW I'm not sure how that's really different from buying snacks at a movie theater, buying a new video card, or whatever else to improve an experience. Though my personal opinion is PW is overpriced for what you get with cash but well... not everyone feels that way obviously since some people do pay.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

My point though, was that the hostility cash shoppers receive in the game is ridiculous. Everyone pays extra for some form of entertainment they like. If someone chooses to spend that improving their experience in PW I'm not sure how that's really different from buying snacks at a movie theater, buying a new video card, or whatever else to improve an experience.

I think it's because certain interactions in the game can be confrontational. Obviously true for PvP. But there's also competition for joining groups, comparisons of how "effective" or "helpful" a player was in the group you were just in, etc. The confrontational nature means it's frequently viewed as a zero-sum game. And an enhancement for one person is seen as a disadvantage for everyone else.

e.g. If the guy next to you in the movie theater buys popcorn, it doesn't lessen your enjoyment of the movie (unless he makes a lot of noise while eating). You won't feel a need to buy popcorn to "keep up" with him. But if the guy in your rival PvP faction refines his weapon to +12, it's going to lessen your enjoyment of PvP. You'll feel pressured to +12 your weapon to even things out.

Brael - Dreamweaver

I can see that point, but I thought the opposite to tell the truth. The guy with a +12 weapon in your squad speeds up everyones runs at whatever they're doing, or can increase your own guilds TW success.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

Congrats Brael on getting your herc as I know you really wanted one.

You see it can be done to all.

Brael - Dreamweaver

Hmm? I've had a herc for well over a year.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I can see that point, but I thought the opposite to tell the truth. The guy with a +12 weapon in your squad speeds up everyones runs at whatever they're doing, or can increase your own guilds TW success.

True. Unfortunately, human nature is for positive things to quickly become the expected norm, while negative things continue to stick in their craw. After a couple weeks, they'll forget how much easier things are because of the guy with the +12 weapon. But every time they're killed by the other guy with the +12 weapon, they'll be reminded that they're gonna have to +12 their weapon if they want to stay even.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Hmm? I've had a herc for well over a year.

You did it didn't sound like it when talking about it or mention of it.

Brael - Dreamweaver

Really? How so?

HyperVioLet - Heavens Tear

Speci - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It's almost impossible to buy a Herc with ONLY coins. You will have to make like... 80 mil coins...b:shocked
Well, if you want a Herc with ony coins.... good luck ^^

Well I never spent real money on the game, I got herc/nix/Lunar and few nirvana gear/etc.
So if you reach lvl 90-100 and cant afford a herc with only coins, then Yes you are doing something wrong. Its not easy to get nice stuffs with coins only but PLEEZ dont say its Impossible...

There are venos who enjoy the game without hercs and stuffs, cause veno is a nice char. But atleast dont say that hercs arent better than your pets..cause its just stupid. Sure you can solo some weak bosses with golems and some low lvl fbs but thats nothing vs. a hercs ability.