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How to not take aggro

XylolyX - Heavens TearXylolyX - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,097 Arc User
edited January 2010 in Archer
Hey guys one of my alts is a 3X archer, almost ready to start BHs.

As you can see I know how to hold aggro as my main is a barb. My question is this: in squad how does an archer keep from grabbing aggro? What skills not to use? Which ammo to use?

Yep I know I'll prolly get flamed and called a noob. I don't care...squad dynamics are pretty important to me as a rule and learning how to play my toon to the best of it's ability is paramount.

Thanks for your replies.
Post edited by XylolyX - Heavens Tear on
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Comments

  • Lusca - SanctuaryLusca - Sanctuary Posts: 754 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    ok i haven't done many BH on my archer but i done a fair few on my sin


    - you already know to wait until the barb has landed 2-3 aggro skills
    - don't spark too early in the fight
    - use level 1 ammo
    - if your building too much threat, stop attacking every now and then and rest

    and if you pull aggro cast winged shell/wings of grace(when you have it) and stay near the tank and/or the cleric, don't drag the boss down a hallway lol


    edit; as for skills you mostly just auto attack then use winged shell or wings of grace if you do draw aggro, and if you have a good tank you can spark towards the end of the fight if you haven't pulled aggro
  • XylolyX - Heavens TearXylolyX - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,097 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    ok i haven't done many BH on my archer but i done a fair few on my sin


    - you already know to wait until the barb has landed 2-3 aggro skills
    - don't spark too early in the fight
    - use level 1 ammo
    - if your building too much threat, stop attacking every now and then and rest

    and if you pull aggro cast winged shell/wings of grace(when you have it) and stay near the tank and/or the cleric, don't drag the boss down a hallway lol

    Thanks.

    So I shouldn't drag Chin all the way to allies camp then? That ruins my plans for the weekend!
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  • Toad - Lost CityToad - Lost City Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    run next to the mob or watever boss ur trying to kill and attack. That way your damage is reduced so you don't grab agro b:surrender
  • Lyzzern - Lost CityLyzzern - Lost City Posts: 193 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    run next to the mob or watever boss ur trying to kill and attack. That way your damage is reduced so you don't grab agro b:surrender

    Hi toad ^^.

    And I disagree, if you're a DD, like myself, it's our job to deal as much damage and negative status to the boss as we can, as long as the barb can take aggro and is a good Barb (Loly seems to be) we can deal Truck-like damage, I 2spark, Ulti, Undine, Sutra, Amplify, everything to deal more damage and I never steal aggro from pro Barbs unless it's uber Amped, so I shouldn't worry much about it, Loly.
    Although, you can have a nice strategy, which is the one I do, see if the Boss has constant Bleed Effect and also, try to notice the Roar effect (since you're a barb, that's easy for you), when you see those, attack, if you don't, don't attack.
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  • KedgeSniper - Lost CityKedgeSniper - Lost City Posts: 733 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    pulling agro is based on your critical hits mostly...
    The more you cri n higher the more chance ya get to agro..

    Bosses follow critical hits.. So if ya see yarself cri like 10k/20k w.e damage u do.. in a row. Stop for a second n restart..

    Like toad said.. start next to the boss for 20% of hp then u can switch to max range, so the barb has enough agro.

    Taking off 1 or 2 rings can help.. it will lower your atack.. <- do that when tank lower than you..

    For example in HH n barb is lv8x n your 9x.
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  • XylolyX - Heavens TearXylolyX - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,097 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Thanks for the replies so far.

    The problem I foresee is this: going into bh's with 4X barbs that don't quite know how to play their toons yet.

    My plan will be wait until tank hits boss/mob 2 or 3 times. Lvl1 ammo regular attacks followed by the occasional skill (aim low, serrated arrow, thundershock, etc) and hope like hell I don't hit 3 crits in a row.

    Sound okay for a noob?
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  • Smobo - Heavens TearSmobo - Heavens Tear Posts: 386 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    As you can see I know how to hold aggro as my main is a barb. My question is this: in squad how does an archer keep from grabbing aggro? What skills not to use? Which ammo to use?

    Typically, for PVE, you're going to want to always be using lv 1 ammo. Your highest dps is normal shots most of the time, so using a skill, besides sparking, won't make you yank agro any faster.

    When you pull agro, you have a few options. Winged shell is a life saver, as is wings of grace, tree of protection, second wind and other healing sources. Aim low and stun can stop it, and then let the tank regain agro.

    Lowering your damage output can help. Removing rings, blessings, attacking close range, staggering attacks are all nice ways. The tricky thing is, archers are meant to deal as much as they can, but steal agro if they do sometimes. You need to get a feel for what a tank can handle. If you have a new tank, I suggest trying to bearly pull agro on some weaker things, so you know where his limit is.

    Also, a [?] boss reduces damage by 75%, however doesn't effect hate building skills "hate buildingness" (sorry didn't have a better term) or a pet's damage. So you can unload a bit more onto these. Hercs also have reflect, which deals a significant amount of unnerfed damage. On any [?] bosses where reflect works, I've been unable to steal agro off a herc, going all out, even when the herc is several levels lower than myself.
    Thanks for the replies so far.

    The problem I foresee is this: going into bh's with 4X barbs that don't quite know how to play their toons yet.

    My plan will be wait until tank hits boss/mob 2 or 3 times. Lvl1 ammo regular attacks followed by the occasional skill (aim low, serrated arrow, thundershock, etc) and hope like hell I don't hit 3 crits in a row.

    Sound okay for a noob?

    Don't skill spam, that wastes mana, and looks kinda noobish. Stunning arrow is good to spam however, as it takes some repair bills/potion costs off the tank and cleric(s), and at lower levels gives the tank a safety net. Staggering attacks and waiting to attack is probably your best way to go. You need to learn how to deal with it with experience. Every archer dies from agro stealing, and you're going to be blammed a lot for stealing agro from a barb who doesn't know what fleshream is.


    And for the record I'm a complete hipocrite. Since I'm where I can start tanking things, I tend to run in and masacre everything... with the poor clerics having heart attacks trying too keep up.
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  • Toad - Lost CityToad - Lost City Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Hi toad ^^.

    And I disagree, if you're a DD, like myself, it's our job to deal as much damage and negative status to the boss as we can, as long as the barb can take aggro and is a good Barb (Loly seems to be) we can deal Truck-like damage, I 2spark, Ulti, Undine, Sutra, Amplify, everything to deal more damage and I never steal aggro from pro Barbs unless it's uber Amped, so I shouldn't worry much about it, Loly.
    Although, you can have a nice strategy, which is the one I do, see if the Boss has constant Bleed Effect and also, try to notice the Roar effect (since you're a barb, that's easy for you), when you see those, attack, if you don't, don't attack.

    ehh i rather save 10 charm ticks and kill boss a min later then waste charm and **** up party because im grabbing agro too much like in bh69 with guarnob and polearm, it's never good to steal agro there. I've been in couple bhs where theres a dumb archer or wiz just triple sparking away while already having agro and just laugh while their charm goes to waste or drop dead just because it turns them on wen they see big numbers on the screen.

    As an archer, u will always steal agro from herc if its not "?" mob/boss and with barbs, if they are cheap with chi or a few levels lower. And if you do grab agro, as mentioned, wings of grace works great because it temporary makes u invulnerable during casting + you take less dmg after.

    In addition, its best to just autoshot and not spam skills. The time it takes you to cast a skill, you would have done more damage autoshooting. Waiting for the barb to grab agro for a bit is good idea but when you get higher level, it is best to start off with sharpen tooth right away then you can stop for barb to take agro before continuing.
  • Elviron - DreamweaverElviron - Dreamweaver Posts: 812 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Well the simplest way I do on BHs is this,

    1.) If a Barb is tanking and I see a bleed icon on the boss, start attacking and continue till the boss is dead. Usually the barbs who start with this continue doing their job properly and I dont have to worry too much on stealing aggro. You can even use your spark if you want after 50% Hp.

    2.) If a barb is tanking and I dont see a bleed icon on the boss, wait for a couple of hits or ready to run if other DDs start attacking the boss cos its definitely gonna come after us b:laugh

    3.) If a BM is tanking, wait till 80% of the HP and then start attacking with normals. Maybe even stop a bit in between.

    4.) If a Veno's pet is tanking, hit 3 normals -> stop for 3 seconds -> 3 normals again. Rinse and repeat. Beyond 50% you can try increasing the number of normals to 5. Do not spark unless you want it on you.

    5.) If youre tanking (pray it doesnt have to come down to that), go all out since the faster the boss dies sooner you can get out of the tanking job.

    Also if you ever see a cleric RB on your squad (I've seen this happen), shift to staggered attacks like in the veno, if youre not the one tanking, since RB would increase your attack speed.

    This is my experience so far but I guess it might change once I hit higher lvls where the damage would start increasing.
  • FitHitDShan - SanctuaryFitHitDShan - Sanctuary Posts: 276 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    The problem I foresee is this: going into bh's with 4X barbs that don't quite know how to play their toons yet.

    My plan will be wait until tank hits boss/mob 2 or 3 times. Lvl1 ammo regular attacks followed by the occasional skill (aim low, serrated arrow, thundershock, etc) and hope like hell I don't hit 3 crits in a row.

    Sound okay for a noob?

    (1) Keep an eye on the boss's effect icons. Those 4x barbs will miss a bleed attack fairly frequently (and you still see the animation as if it hit) and they will have chi management problems that lead them to let the bleeds slack off as the fight goes on.

    (2) Adjust your plan slightly depending on the barb. A few levels higher than you, 2-3 hits is a good enough lead. Equal level, you should wait for a few hate-generating skills to pile up. Lower level than you, wait for 75% of life bar. A herc tanking (on non-? boss), you need to seriously pare back damage. Watching for strings of crits is okay, but 3 isn't really a panic-worthy number.

    (3) Keep one finger on your panic button (wings of grace or a damage pot or whatever will get you through about 2 hits so the tank can get agro back or the cleric can figure out what happened). You might even go ahead and press the panic button if you see something like dragons from the BM just as someone hits an amp damage genie skill.

    (4) Forget the skills (with few exceptions).
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  • Shadowvzs - Lost CityShadowvzs - Lost City Posts: 877 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    ok i haven't done many BH on my archer but i done a fair few on my sin


    - you already know to wait until the barb has landed 2-3 aggro skills
    - don't spark too early in the fight
    - use level 1 ammo
    - if your building too much threat, stop attacking every now and then and rest

    and if you pull aggro cast winged shell/wings of grace(when you have it) and stay near the tank and/or the cleric, don't drag the boss down a hallway lol


    edit; as for skills you mostly just auto attack then use winged shell or wings of grace if you do draw aggro, and if you have a good tank you can spark towards the end of the fight if you haven't pulled aggro

    flesh ream enough for holding agro in tt, bh is totally different,there hard to hold the agro with +1x-2x lv archer/wizz but later your archer too can tank the bh19-59 , my wife not a pro player but can keep the agro with +15lv higher archer (exclude if archer "i do now the highest crit" maniac)

    rest 3 thing is ok + maybe wear of the rings too

    and likes others saying the skill spamming useless, the normal hiting better dps and less agro steal.

    and yes dont attack too fast if u see tank is a noob :)
  • HiddenBIade - Heavens TearHiddenBIade - Heavens Tear Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Step 1. Use your brain

    Step 2. wait for barb to build aggro before attacking

    step 3. if low lvl barb use step 1 & 2 and take off rings & blessing

    really is simple as that.
  • XylolyX - Heavens TearXylolyX - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,097 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Everyone thanks for the awesome info. I'm learning a great deal about how everyone plays their archer just a bit differently. It may seem like nothing to you higher lvl archers, but as a barb I'm the one that is trying to get the boss to repeatedly hit me in the head...now as a DD the roles change just a bit.

    All of your info has been great so far, keep it coming.
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  • Elenacostel - Heavens TearElenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    - For BH mobs - run up close to the mob so that you deal half damage. This is the second-to-least amount of effort for not stealing aggro (least amount of effort is not attacking). The only caveat is that if you crit 3 or 4 times in a row, you will probably steal aggro and take immediate damage. If you die, explain what you tried to do and how you really cannot prevent 4 consecutive crits.

    - For Bosses - what everyone else said. I prefer attacking until I steal aggro, use Winged Shell / Wings of Grace to survive, and then put on fists and go punch the boss. After a while I will resume my ranged position and shoot again. The exception is if the boss has an AoE, in which case you really don't want to draw aggro at all b/c the boss can go to you and kill nearby allies.

    EDIT: You should also experiment and test the tankiness of your archer. A DD tanking usually speeds up the killing process*, and it is always good to know what you can and cannot handle. Furthermore, if you can tank the BH, you do not need to look for a tank class. For example, I can tank Brim with 1 cleric and Eden with 1 cleric + 1 other healer (wizard can work). I can also theoretically tank BH79, but I need a BM buff for Stygean. Since that requires a BM in the party, I usually don't tank Stygean.

    * The only exception I can think of is if you can steal aggro from a herc against a [?] boss. In this case, you are lowering overall efficiency b/c while you can deal more damage, the reflection damage is lost if the herc is no longer tanking.
  • Veronica_ - Heavens TearVeronica_ - Heavens Tear Posts: 157 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    At boss ( same as mods if tank can't hold it hehe *like in TT where the mods hit hards lol* )

    1. Take of the freaking rings b:cute
    2.Use lowest grade ammo , not wort to use highter b:cute
    3.If the tank still can't hold aggro ( if you are in a dungeon ) take of bless b:surrender
    3.If the tank STILL can't hold aggro either stop attacking and wait for under 50% hp or hope for a miracle b:surrender
  • AngleSnipe - Heavens TearAngleSnipe - Heavens Tear Posts: 178 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    The most important factor, is know your limits. If you agro a boss that will 2 shot you, then don't do it, and be very careful. However if you know you can tank a boss even if a cleric doesnt get to you the instant, then sure, if you want to agro, go ahead, that way the squad does not suffer from any time lapse due to the 1/2 hearted DD effort.
  • Giodia - Heavens TearGiodia - Heavens Tear Posts: 475 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Hey guys one of my alts is a 3X archer, almost ready to start BHs.

    As you can see I know how to hold aggro as my main is a barb. My question is this: in squad how does an archer keep from grabbing aggro? What skills not to use? Which ammo to use?

    Yep I know I'll prolly get flamed and called a noob. I don't care...squad dynamics are pretty important to me as a rule and learning how to play my toon to the best of it's ability is paramount.

    Thanks for your replies.

    What I do:

    1. Start with serrated arrow and stop shooting
    2. Start with vicious arrow and stop shooting. repeat till 75% is reached
    3. Wait till 75% of Boss HP left
    4. Start dpsing
    5. When Boss reaches 200k of HP left, Double spark or 20% HP left
    6. Skills or normal shots.

    Edit: For Step 4. If you crit 3 times in a row, stop shooting. 5 shots per rotation. stop and repeat shooting another 5 times.
    Hi toad ^^.

    And I disagree, if you're a DD, like myself, it's our job to deal as much damage and negative status to the boss as we can, as long as the barb can take aggro and is a good Barb (Loly seems to be) we can deal Truck-like damage, I 2spark, Ulti, Undine, Sutra, Amplify, everything to deal more damage and I never steal aggro from pro Barbs unless it's uber Amped, so I shouldn't worry much about it, Loly.
    Although, you can have a nice strategy, which is the one I do, see if the Boss has constant Bleed Effect and also, try to notice the Roar effect (since you're a barb, that's easy for you), when you see those, attack, if you don't, don't attack.

    There should be more pro barbs and bms... but not everyone is stat in the same way. Some barbs may not be able to hold as much aggro.

    I have seen a fair share of these barbs.
  • Zalice - DreamweaverZalice - Dreamweaver Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    If the barb is doing his job right, you won't have to worry about taking aggro. Deal damage- it's your calling brotha.
  • XylolyX - Heavens TearXylolyX - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,097 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    If the barb is doing his job right, you won't have to worry about taking aggro. Deal damage- it's your calling brotha.

    And that is my main worry. At lvl4X most barbs don't know how to do their job-it's a learning curve that has just started. I can teach them how to play barb and they'll listen if I'm on my main. Most though won't listen if I'm on my 4X alt. b:surrender
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  • Legerity - SanctuaryLegerity - Sanctuary Posts: 1,072 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    If the barb is doing his job right, you won't have to worry about taking aggro. Deal damage- it's your calling brotha.

    It takes two to tango...
  • Giodia - Heavens TearGiodia - Heavens Tear Posts: 475 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    It takes two to tango...


    While I agree, but it's always safe to let the barb take full aggro before we start our dps-ing.

    This has taken fail barbs into consideration so that we do not die in the process.
  • Foxymage - HarshlandsFoxymage - Harshlands Posts: 373 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    ok i haven't done many BH on my archer but i done a fair few on my sin


    - you already know to wait until the barb has landed 2-3 aggro skills
    - don't spark too early in the fight
    - use level 1 ammo
    - if your building too much threat, stop attacking every now and then and rest

    and if you pull aggro cast winged shell/wings of grace(when you have it) and stay near the tank and/or the cleric, don't drag the boss down a hallway lol


    edit; as for skills you mostly just auto attack then use winged shell or wings of grace if you do draw aggro, and if you have a good tank you can spark towards the end of the fight if you haven't pulled aggro

    me lvl 67 magmite lvl 65 archer lvl 61 wasn't able to take arrgo from my magmite and was useing barrage of arrows...
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  • Elenacostel - Heavens TearElenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Barrage of Arrows is not the highest damage-dealing skill until you have it maxed and/or have Demon version.

    Normal attacks deal more damage.
  • Mercinary - Heavens TearMercinary - Heavens Tear Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Everyone's already listed useful things, but taking into consideration the barbs you are talking about are still learning how to spam fleshream, consider the tank as a veno's pet tanking, or a BM.

    The basics apply of course

    1. Wait for 20% or more hp is gone
    2. Space out your attack intervals
    3. Unequip unnecessary equips

    I personally carry a seperate cheap weapon, just happened to drop at a boss and had a bit of hp on it. I use that when the tank cant hold agro well.
  • Zalice - DreamweaverZalice - Dreamweaver Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    And that is my main worry. At lvl4X most barbs don't know how to do their job-it's a learning curve that has just started. I can teach them how to play barb and they'll listen if I'm on my main. Most though won't listen if I'm on my 4X alt. b:surrender

    I feel ya. I'm a magnet for bad barbs on BH who usually don't go tiger. No kitty>no aggro. And when I tip them off on what to do and what not to do, they just ignore me.

    In that case, do as most are saying. Normal arrows.

    On another note/Off-topic: An assassin once tanked my BH and even with regular arrows I still took aggro. My opinion that assassins aren't as great as made to be stands strong. b:pleased
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