Just Started BM and lost

xenoskeeper

I looked up guides already so don't say i didn't.....

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I was planning to start a fist bm, but then i read about how they "suck" they offer fast dps and high crit + evasion but low hp and dmg. I also read that the lvl cap is 105 but im not really sure about it (correct me if im wrong cause i've seen other things that said 150...)

What is vit cap if you want to pvp???? i heard it was around 50 but im not so sure

If i went a fist bm and decided to cap vit at someplace around 90-100 would that help my low hp or would that just hurt me?

Eirel - Sanctuary

>> What we lack in "damage" is made up by DPS and crits that most other paths can only wish they had...at least in my opinion. You may take that how you wish

Level cap stands at 105 on offical servers. What you hear about a level cap of 150 is either an easily made typo, or more likely, has some connection to the "private servers" that exist out there somewhere on the interwebz.

Vit cap for PvP...no clue, but 50 sounds about right.

As for capping vit around 90-100...honestly, I think that would gimp your character more then help you. Give yourself enough dex and str to wear heavy armor and use fists/claws, add in some hp or phys def shards, and I see no reason to put that much into vit. The only class I can see doing that is maybe a barb... But yeah, just think of what those points could do to your str or dex? More hp, or more dmg and evasion so mobs have even less of chance to hit you....your choice.

Honestly, this is all highly opinionated...take what you will from it, and do honestly what you think is right. But if you take away one thing, it should be this: fist BMs are a force to be reckoned with, not ignored and thrown away as "useless"

Revolte - Heavens Tear

Eirel - Sanctuary wrote: »

But if you take away one thing, it should be this: fist BMs are a force to be reckoned with, not ignored and thrown away as "useless"

that is very right.

wnight

Main reason why Fist BM's "su..k" :
Only 1/2 damage in comparison to others and who cares that you will have 1 extra attack each ~3-4 hits(don't forget that that attack can miss which makes it even worse).
As well skills of fist tree not much encouraging in comparison of Axe tree (stun combo) , Sword Tree(mages "nightmare") and etc'
Bottom line too many cons vs pros.b:bye

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Fist BMs are absolutely brutal in PvP vs other BMs... That high dex evasion, high crit and fast attack are really something.

From what I understand you don't even need most of the skills, so building a dex based poleblade and using fists as a secondary wepaon seem to be a pretty brutal and easy to manage combo. I've seen a few, and it's a nice combo to have.

Then again, I'm axe, but if I rolled another BM, that's the path I think I would take now.

unoxx

I have a question, fist users always say they have high evasion and all cause of high dex. But I rly doubt they have a lot more evasion/accuracy than me, a poleblade user. Can some tell me how much evasion and accuracy a lvl70 fist BM has on average?
Cause if the difference is minimal, poleblade would have a huge advantage cause of higher damage...

Oldbear - Sanctuary

I have you 2 guns to compare.

1-st is 12 gauge shot gun. 2nd is Heckler & Koch fully automatic 7,62mm weapon.

which one is better and which one suck?

(comparing axes and fists is same thing)

Hippie - Harshlands

for breaking hieros hecklers are hopeless

Seablue - Sanctuary

unoxx wrote: »

I have a question, fist users always say they have high evasion and all cause of high dex. But I rly doubt they have a lot more evasion/accuracy than me, a poleblade user. Can some tell me how much evasion and accuracy a lvl70 fist BM has on average?
Cause if the difference is minimal, poleblade would have a huge advantage cause of higher damage...

A bm with fist as main needs at least 139 dex at lvl70 to be able to use the latest fist. Depending on if they use LA or HA and the remaining point distribution, the dex can be higher than that.

Judging from my stats, bm gets 10 accuracy and 10 evasion per dex. So a fist bm have at least 1390 accuracy and 1390 evasion naked at lvl70.

unoxx

Ok, im @ lvl 70 now, and I have 129 dex, naked. That means 1290 accuracy and evasion. I think the difference is quite low, so unless the fist BM has more dex than minimal he's facing a disadvantage. To be effective the fist BM should make me miss like 1/4 of my attacks, which is not possible this way. Even with like 170 dex thats impossible. On top of that, my flame schyte increases my accuracy, and decreases the fist BM's evasion. I'd say the fist BM cannot win unles he/she has godlike gear while I do not.

In theory of course. The skill of the player plays a major role and cannot be calculated ^_^

Teeemu - Sanctuary

Vit bm works.. just get 1-2 misties for the accuracy and you can do very well in PVE minus the evasion. (survivability + accuracy)

I'm not a PVPer, but im sure you can hold your own with the rings, this includes hitting archers in TW for example.

IF i had 2 misty forest rings my accuracy would be 2.7k, i have not capped my vit yet.
(Current stat : 1.3k acc, 6.8k HP unbuffed)

Lyndura - Lost City

Fist BM miss the most out of all the weapons.

"Fist users have more accuracy and evasion", that is a lie. Any BM can have the same evasion/accuracy as any other, unless one of them uses LA, but I won't even consider those.

Yeah sure, let's say a Fist user can hit 10 times in 5 seconds, at high level PvP those hits will miss half of the time, so the average will be just 5 hits in 5 seconds.

That and the low damage (around 78~84 on the average 9x Heavy Armor user with +4 weapon), makes fist users garbage for PvP. Yeah sure, they will crit a lot (as same as any other weapon can), but try getting past the 10~13k HP of the other BM in 10 seconds, or those 14~18k HP barbarians.

Anyways a basic PvP rule is that: "Heavy armor do not fights Heavy Armor users". Reason is simple: because it takes too long to kill (IF you ever kill that user).

So being a BM focused on "killing" other BMs is fail.

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Anyways, the new Genie skills just made the Fist weapon worse (and I thought it wasn't possible).

Granrey - Sanctuary

My current stats for my weapons.

Evasion:2524
accuracy:2041
crit rate 10%


with TT70 fists at 76 (full mastery)

attack rate:1.43/sec
physical attack:1835-2272
Average DPS: 4,248

with TT70 sword at 76(mastery at 9)

attack rate:1.11/sec
phy attack:1691-2654
Average DPS: 3,349


with TT60 axes at 76 (mastery at 9)

attack rate:0.83/sec
Phy attack: 1947-3492
average dps:3,065.00

with general summer long bow (no mastery lol)

attack rate: 0.67/sec
Phy attack: 1612- 2460
average dps:1,914.00

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Lyndura - Lost City wrote: »

Fist BM miss the most out of all the weapons.

"Fist users have more accuracy and evasion", that is a lie. Any BM can have the same evasion/accuracy as any other, unless one of them uses LA, but I won't even consider those.

When I was a vit-axe build (both dueling and PvPing) I couldn't hit a fist BM nearly 1/3 of the time and had my **** handed to me. Miss-Miss-Miss-Hit rinse and repeat... and while the damage the fists wasn't all that high, it was relatively consistent... Charmed, yeah, not likely, but with normal pots, the fists would win almost every time.

Then again, most of these encounters were with cash shop PvPers that had every nifty equip you could name refined like crazy.

I can't say that I've had many run-ins with 'average joe' fist gear, so yeah, can't say how they would fare without all that yellow.

Lyndura - Lost City

That is considering the BM's are in equal conditions.

Granrey - Sanctuary

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

When I was a vit-axe build (both dueling and PvPing) I couldn't hit a fist BM nearly 1/3 of the time and had my **** handed to me. Miss-Miss-Miss-Hit rinse and repeat... and while the damage the fists wasn't all that high, it was relatively consistent... Charmed, yeah, not likely, but with normal pots, the fists would win almost every time.

Then again, most of these encounters were with cash shop PvPers that had every nifty equip you could name refined like crazy.

I can't say that I've had many run-ins with 'average joe' fist gear, so yeah, can't say how they would fare without all that yellow.

look the problem with Lyndura is that she does not say the entire story.

Its true all BM can have same accuracy, thats true. However, axes have more str requirement than any other weapon in the BM tree.

Therefore, if a BM player goes to the extreme of maxing dex and just keeping str only to wear HA. This BM cant use the latest set of axes but can always use the latest set of sword, fists and probably poleblade too.

So, they can have the same accuracy, it just it will have to use a weaker set of axes rather than the latest set availlable for him.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

All things being equal, sure, I can understand that.

And, I guess I wasn't clear about that, my apologies. I wasn't advocating extreme dex LA fist build, as that's really too limiting, but rather a pole with secondary fists... from what I've experienced, that combo seems to work well if you can afford to do it right.

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear

maybe this will help

All BMs should stat for heavy armor. (5str every two levels. This is the minimum requirement)

If you are going to go with Fists as main you should start your stating like this. 5str 4 dex 1 vit every two levels. (keep in mind a lot of bms cap vitality at a certain point. Most cap around 50. I capped at 36.)

If you will be using Spear as main a modified build is suggested. 5str 3 dex 2 vit. This will give you a good boost in Vitality at the earlier levels. Which for some is much needed Until your vitality is around 36 to 40. Then modify build to 5str 5dex every two levels until you meet fist requirement again. ( Remember its a player that makes a toon good. Please keep an open mind and adjust your stats as you see fit.) Then resume the the 5/4/1. (As you play your BM this will all make more sense)

Ok...this is how I would play that build...As a hybrid Fist and Spear user. You would use your fists for PvE 1v1 and latter levels use them in TT runs. They get great DPS and can help cancel TT boss's AoE attacks. And you will have the stats to use spear, you will use your sparks too use your spears ultimate attack on the above stated bosses. (really all bosses) and by grabbing select skills in each tree you will balance out your fist BM weaknesses with the Spear tree's strengths.

Its highly possible to run a dual build starting as early as your 40's when your fb spear starts to become weak. (I would personally still wait till higher levels and run the spear build till you really needed your shadowless kick skill) There is a legendary lvl 40 spear you can forge that does not require a mold that has great stats. A lot of spear users use their fb 19 spear until they make that one.


Level 3 Draw Blood
-- When using fists this skill will really not be needed. (use your own discretion I am not a fist user this may help out with your DPS) As a axe/hammer user I found this skill to be useful up till the 50's range. And use it occasionally when 1v1' opponents with extra def/health and on bosses. This is a necessary skill when using the spear route you will want to max this skill in order to stack your bleeds.


Level 13 Aura of the Golden Bell
-- Increased Phys Def, Bonus!

Max this skill ASAP

Level 19 Aeolian Blade
-- this will come in handy for you because of the possible stun. Nice damage too. Max this skill. Its a great opener against opponents. And a necessary stun chance for your arsenal.

Level 23 Roar of the Pride
-- another stun, an AoE stun. If you ever played with me I use this all the time. Its awesome. It will always be necessary for you when in a party in dungeon runs or TT's. Or if you do TW's. Necessary for AoE grinding. Level when you can afford it. try to get it close to/or maxed.

Level 29 Diamond Sutra
-- This is your very own Blademaster heal yourself skill. Maxing this skill is unnecessary at early levels. Most of the healing comes from the 20% jump. Level as you see fit. Mine is at 5. (I am level 74)

Level 34 Fan of Flames
-- AoE. You will want to level this when you start to AoE grind with spear not a priority AoE. Level when you have spare SP. (Low priority)

Level 44 Drake Sweep
-- another AoE. You will want to level this when you start to AoE grind not a priority AoE. Level when you have spare SP. (low Priority)


Fist users do not really need skills other then shadowless kick. If you've gone with fists as your main all you will really need is the above stated skills and mastery for that weapon path tree

As a spear user you will most likely find skills more helpful as they have more uses in different situations.

Now on to fist skills. Since I am suggesting a Hybrid weapon user. We will be trying to save some SP points so you can get the most bang for your buck..

Please understand that a fists standard attack is what makes it good. Skill spamming is unnecessary and a waste of time (dps) and mp for a fist BM.

Lvl 29 Vacuous Palm -

Leave at level 1

Lvl 39 Shadowless kick -

leave at level 1. You will be using this skill for its canceling ability as an opener attack on magic mobs. And eventually in TT runs to cancel boss aoe's ( but you will never cancel as well as a barb. Your cool down is just too long.)

Lvl 49 Cyclone Heel -

This skill is an aoe skill. And its added affect is what helps make you a DPS monster towards endgame. Max at latter levels (70 + )when the attack speed boost helps. Other wise level as you see fit. ( For fist user semi- priority skill) you can ignore it if using spear as main.

lvl 59 Drake's Breath Bash -

If you have gone the spear fist hybrid you won't need this skill IMO.

Fist mastery - Level this is your #1 priority skill for fists.

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear

Now on to the Spear skills. Since Fists aren't skill dependent you should/will have sp to buy up some Spear skills, hypothetically speaking.

Level 29 Piercing Winds

-A BM will need to attain level 1 to get other skills. You might need for AoE grinding (it does cost a spark to use). Lyndura (level 89 BM Spear user) suggests leaving it at level 2 for awhile. (Anyways you will most likely be saving your spark for other skills) Since you will still be soloing a lot at this point level 1 is probably best for awhile.

Level 39 Farstrike

-This skill is powerful and ranged. I would invest some levels in this skill. If I had this skill I would use it for many things. I would use this skill to pull aggro from a luring veno. Or a creature trying to run away from you. (Especially air mobs) Or an add that got by and was going after a cleric. (This is a Spear priority skill. The damage output for this skill is great)

Level 49 Meteor Rush

-This skill will allow a BM to get a breather. Its a mass knock-back (AoE) skill. Useful in many circumstances...taking too much damage and Roar of Pride is on cool down...knock back....squishes getting attacked....Roar and knock back...etc..etc.. Level when you can afford it. (semi - Priority skill) This will be needed for AoE grinding.

Level 59 Glacial Spike

-Now a second spark is available and when using fists the Sparks will be used for eruption (when solo). But in groups a BM will find themselves using it for this skill. This will allow the whole group to capitalize on the effect this skill inflicts. (In TT's this will let Veno's pets and other members deal a good deal more damage. Not worth it to use sparks for an eruption when you can get more out of your sparks as a group with this skill.) Expensive Skill I would keep it maxed. At least level as you can afford it.

Special note: All Spear AoE skills are linear. Meaning they attack in a fan like spray a certain distance in front of your BM.

And Mastery spear skill. I think it depends on how much you find yourself using the spear. Level as you see fit.( I would keep it maxed. But then again I would play this build as a Spear/Fist build. Not Fist/Spear.)

Well...I hope I have entertained you all with my imagined hybrid.

xenoskeeper

im pretty sure naked bms with different builds at the same lvl would not have the same evasion as one another......
i've always wanted to play a fist/speed warrior, but could never find a game with one and after looking at this thread im going too.... the pros outweigh the cons....

Thanks guys!